₦airaland Forum

laribari:
You will be confounded shortly. I just got back from church that was why I haven't been here.

You haven't learnt a thing do you? So you think Ayo777 is correct?

I'm wiser than you obviously, and I wanted you to see the man you take as ur scriptural bail out does not support your false church and purgatory?

So why are you so glorified about what he is saying?

Like I said he is wrong and I wil prove him.

I'm coming back shortly

I hope you know that we are here just to determine truth and not to win a prize. Stop telling lies laribari, please na. When someone writes what is true I agree, when he writes what is not true I disagree. The church, the pillar and ground of truth is my guide and not any man. Check back and see where I disagreed with him, even before agreeing with him next. I quoted him and wrote the below :

Syncan:
All he wrote there are in agreement with scripture, no catholic teaching is contrary to scripture. Problem is, when you now are ready to excuse James and the apostles for acting by the spirit of scriptures, you demand that their successors act by the letters of scripture. When he calls Mary mother of Jesus, in accordance to scriptures, another asks for scriptural backing where Jesus called her Mother. That is the problem you have. Read further same passage of acts 15, and tell me where James saw in the scripture the letters " Circumcision is not needed to make the gentiles God's adopted children". And talking about the church, the pillar and ground of truth, Have you found it? Pray let's know, and don't tell me its the Christian community, for the Church must be one fold, teach with authority and cannot teach error.

Please laribari, for your sake stop telling lies, you are not doing God any favor.

analice107:
Joey If i start now, you would say am harassing you. lol. Was Matin Luther the deciding factor in the Council of Nacea which determined which book had divine revelations so should be added?
Was he even in the committee?
Guy, Have you read those books? I have them here as speak with you. I Have read those books sir, there's nothing revelational about them. Nothing Prophetic.

You said Jesus read those books, and i asked how you knew, How i know Jesus never read those books is, Neither He nor His Apostles quoted or made references to them. Read the Knew Testament, Jesus quoted free from the old testament books, and made references to Prophets and their prophecies. The man Maccabeus never prophesied any thing, no other Bible writer is similar to him. His writing are all about his war exploits.
Do you know the criteria used to select the books?

You see that's the problem, you've not asked yourself, how they come about these books in the bible. The early Christians held several books as inspired in the first four centuries of the Church, these includes books such as seven letters of Ignatius, the Didache, and The Shepherd. It was not until later that the Catholic Bishops sat, and through an Intense process decided on those to be included as Canons. As per the ones you mentioned appearing in the new testament as references, there are quite a number. I will just name these:

2 Maccabees 7 ----Quoted by St. Paul in Heb 11:35.

Judith 8:14--Quoted by St. Paul in 1Cor.2:10

Judith 8:25--Quoted by St. Paul in 1 cor 10:10.

A great Pentecost celebration to every one, May our hearts be renewed. Amen.

DoctorAlien:
If everybody will pass through judgment, how come judgment was given unto the saints (Dan. 7:22)?

If everybody will go through judgment, how come the saints will judge the world and angels? (1 Cor. 6:2-3)

Yes "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment..." Heb.9:27 scripture is very clear there. In 1Cor3:13 St.paul made it clear that "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it...". Did you read that? St. Paul says "Every man". Even in Matt.25:31-46, is it not the righteous that will be at the right hand of the judgement throne? How can they not be judged? Going by your assumption, the people of Nineveh would not pass through judgement, queen of sheba will not pass through God's judgement, since according to Jesus, they will "rise in judgement against this generation" Matt.12 41-42. Please think again.

laribari:
You are a child and have no point.

Christians are pillars in the church upholding the truth, where did I lie?


Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


The same Ayo777 that you are quoting also said we are saved by grace. Wasn't it something u guys called a lie?


Someone asked you where is purgatory u couldn't talk.....u are the biggest liar preaching lies.


Just prove yourself and tel me where purgatory is in the bible.

Stop telling lies against us, our teachings are public knowledge. We are saved by grace. Yet as long as you are here on earth, you must cooperate with grace, that's what is called good works. "Work out your salvation in fear and trembling". Phill.2:12

DoctorAlien:
Read 1 Thess. 4:16-17. Does it imply that the righteous shall pass through judgment?

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment..." Heb.9:27 Any man who dies, righteous or sinner will be judged.

laribari:
Finally, someone that knows the scriptures but before we go further please I need you your view on the below.


1. Purgatory

2. Honouring Mary

3. Praying to Saints.




This wasn't just Paul talking; this was Paul saying what the Holy Spirit told him expressly; that some will depart from the faith in the last days.

An unbeliever cannot depart from the faith because he was never in the faith. Only someone who once believed in Christ and no longer does, can be said to have departed from the faith.

And to depart from the faith is to lose the salvation. We are justified by faith (Romans 5v1) and saved by grace through faith (Eph 2v8). To depart from the faith through which we are justified and saved by grace is to lose the salvation. We can't depart from the faith and keep the salvation.

So if faith can be departed from, according to the Spirit; then salvation can be lost. Proving that, Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse.

Revelation 3v5 -He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in whote raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.

This was Jesus talking; and He wasn't talking to unbelievers. He was talking to christians.

He said that believers who overcome, He will not blot out their names from the book of life. Meaning that christians who don't overcome (or keep the faith) will have their names blotted out.

This proves two things.

One; that being a christian and a member of the body of Christ does not automatically mean one will end an overcomer. If every christian will end an overcomer, no matter what; Jesus would not be telling them; "He that overcometh.."

And two; that christians who don't overcome will have their names blotted out of the book of life, which is the same thing as losing eternal life.

Rev 20v15 -And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So if names written in the book of life can be blotted out; it means that eternal life and salvation can be lost by someone who once had it. Proving that; Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

Romans 11v22 -Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be CUT OFF.

This was Paul writing to the gentile believers, warning them not to be highminded and carefree about their salvation. That if they do not continue in God's goodness by staying in the faith ...they also shall be cut off.

Meaning that the scenario of being cut off from Christ is not an impossibility. A christian can let carnality and carefree-ness degenerate into unbelief and departure from the faith. And when that happens, that christian shall be cut off from Christ.

If it was impossible for a believer to be cut off from Christ, the scriptures will not warn us not to let it happen. And when one is cut off from Christ, he is no more saved. Proving again that salvation can be lost; and Once saved is not automatic "always saved".

Another verse;

2Thess 2v3 -Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Listen; this was Paul writing to believers about what will happen before the coming of Christ. And he said it will be preceeded by a falling away.

Note: the falling away is not referring to unbelievers. Unbelievers cannot fall away, because they were never standing. We stand by faith;

Romans 11v20 -...thou standest by faith.

2Cor 1v24 -...for by faith ye stand.

So only someone that once had faith in Christ and no longer does can be said to have "fallen away".

So the falling away is the great de-conversion from christianity that will happen in the end-times; of which we are already seeing a bit of it.

If a believer cannot later become an unbeliever, and if a christian can never be de-converted from faith in Christ; will the scripture talk about "falling away" as part of the signs of the end-times?

These proofs again that; "once saved always saved" is a false doctrine.

These are some of the scriptures that disprove "Once saved always saved" doctrine and show that:

1. A christian can depart from the faith

2. Names written in the book of life can be blotted out.

3. Someone once grafted into Christ can be cut off from Him.

4. A christian once standing by faith can fall away into unbelief.

If all these scenarios were impossible or can never happen; scriptures will not warn us of them.

You don't warn a fish about drowning because it can't drown. You don't warn people about things that can never happen to them. If believers are warned about departing from the faith, having their names blotted out of the book of life, being cut off from Christ and falling away, it is because it can happen to them. And the Spirit says some will depart from the faith.

This shows in no ambiguous terms and clarity that salvation can be lost. That "Once saved always saved" doctrine is false.

Shalom.


Finally, someone that understand scriptures and that we can share properly.

Howver, before I go on with that because I will show u stuff too and explain but first I want ur view on the following.


1. Purgatory

2. Praying through Mary when we need something from Jesus

Hahahaha, someone just destroyed all your teachings that "once saved always saved", which you have been boasting up and down here, I purposely allowed him to do so. And all you can do is ask him about purgatory, hahahaha. Such a comedian I haven't seen

DoctorAlien:
Thanks a lot.

Banned by antispambot till tomorrow, it's your post I quoted o.

DoctorAlien:
So, everybody will be judged to see who deserves Heaven or not, and then those who don't deserve Heaven will be sent to purgatory. Who will suffer hell?

Everybody will pass through judgement.
1. Some will go to heaven direct. 1cor3:14
2.Some will pass through purgatory before entering heaven. 1Cor3:15.
3.Some will go to hellfire. 1cor3:17

DoctorAlien:
So, everybody will be judged to see who deserves Heaven or not, and then those who don't deserve Heaven will be sent to purgatory. Who will suffer hell?

No.

Everybody will pass through judgement.
1. Some will go to heaven direct. 1cor3:14
2.Some will pass through purgatory before entering heaven. 1Cor3:15.
3.Some will go to hellfire. 1cor3:17.

laribari:
You didn't say where it will happen. Pls tell us!

This is what I have been saying since, it's not in the bible.

Those who will be in heaven will not go through judgment when it comes to salvation because we are saved already . Maybe u haven't heard that one again.

If this is all you've been trying to say, then I will leave Ayoku777 or any other person who cares to take you up on that.

Na wa o

DoctorAlien:
So, according to you, after judgment, purgatory?

For those who will be saved, yet so as by fire. 1Cor3:15.

DoctorAlien:
So, according to you, Moses will be judged to see if he deserves purgatory?

Moses is one of the patriarchs, he waited for Christ to come and redeem mankind and open heaven. Jesus opened their prison gates after his death.

laribari:
You be olodo.

A pillar in that sense is spiritual. Read my post again.

Pillars are the saints. A church is the house of God right? But every house need pillar of support to stand abi?

You see say you nor sabi!

If you preach on NL it will becos you and I is the church and also the pillar. We uphold the truth as the ground where the truth is ditched but we are not the truth. Go sit down jare, ur blindness no be here ooo

By their fruits ye shall know them.

I do not know why you tell lies a lot, nor do I know what you gain from insults. This what you said below, I removed the rest so you can see clearly. When did you now go to spiritual pillar?

laribari:
When Paul said the ground of truth, he was making reference to a physical building, a house where people gather to worship God, a ground where people hear the word of truth.
That does not make the church the truth because Jesus is the only truth. The pillar talks about the poles standing inside the building that upholds the truth.

DoctorAlien:
Where and when is it experienced?

Those who will experience it shall, after their individual judgement once they leave this earth.

DoctorAlien:
Since there will only be one group in Heaven: those who washed their robes in the blood of the lamb, where is purgatory in the picture?

If you say the great tribulation is purgatory, when did/does it take place? Will somebody like Moses go to this purgatory too?

The great tribulation is not purgatory. Purgatory is not experienced on earth.

laribari:
I will be quick because u just messed up again. Do you even understand the scriptures? How do you read it?

I already told you to bring up any scripture and I will school you because that is where I live. You may say I'm arrogant but you are no less because you claim to know and you don't which makes it so funny.

Okay, lets look at the scripture.....

1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

When Paul said the ground of truth, he was making reference to a physical building, a house where people gather to worship God, a ground where people hear the word of truth.

That does not make the church the truth because Jesus is the only truth. The pillar talks about the things that upholds the truth. The house of God is what upholds the truth but that is not the truth. The truth is the scriptures, the world of God.

The house of God which is the Church is the pillar that upholds and the ground where the truth (Jesus) is preached.

It is people like you who turn bible upside down that makes people say the bible contradicts itself.

The major thing wrong with ur post was when u said..... the church is more important than the scriptures. Haba, listen to yourself.

Who is the scripture? Jesus and will never pass away. The bible says the word becomes flesh and dwells among us.

Hahahaha, so a mass of cement, or in some cases a collection of woods, is your pillar and ground of truth abi? Ok, what about when the word is propagated here on NL, it will not have pillar and ground of truth na. Lol.
Mister, the ground of truth is the mystical Church instituted by Christ in Matt.16:18. The church with the keys to the kingdom, of which the powers of Hades cannot overcome

[quote author=joey150 post=45628072]i was making reference to that same verse. i know of the blood of the lamb.
so why do you think that the great tribulation cannot then mean purgatory? since we are making up cheap excuses here.

and lets be clean and straight here.. purgatory aside. Do you believe that the apostles passed on traditions and epistles that where not recorded in the bible?do you believe that all The teachings of christ was not included in the bible?
your answers here go a long way to putting this [/Quote]

DoctorAlien:
Yes: in the blood of the lamb.

Their robes were not washed in the purgatory.

The washing effect of the blood of the lamb is felt, even by the "spirits in prison". 1Pet.3:19

laribari:
Chai!!! This dude don spoil everything.

Despite this, the church and not scripture is the "pillar and ground of truth".. Really?? Ah!

Didn't the bible say heaven and earth Sha pass away but my word shall remain?

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus is the word of God and the truth. So you. Mean without God's word u will get the truth?


Another failed comment. Please stop talking because u are empty. You just denied Christ His glory. Will church not pass away? Abi u think there will be church in heaven? Lol

It's okay to praise your friend he shares same view with but u can't get me by doing that. Also don't mix it up with scripturally foolishness. All ur own Na church, church, church. U think church will save anyone? It is what u know that is the truth that will set u free. Ye shall know the truth (the word of God) and not ye Sha attend church for u to be free. Devils don't go to church?

As for Ayoku777, I didn't answer him yet because I was sleeping and since I got back been talking to you guys. I was going to respond...lol.

You too funny honestly. So u think he is correct? I didn't rush to answer him cos the gist will need a lot of scriptures as proof. So I chill first.

You have encountered me twice and u still don't know a thing abt me.

Here it is.....I DON'T GIVE UP on the truth

Do you now doubt the scripture you claim to follow? 1Tim3:15 "... thechurch of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth".
Here scripture calls her the pillar and ground of truth.

Yes I talk about church, because you have to prove to me that you are not a blind guide " Can a blind lead the blind ?" LK.6:39

ayoku777:
This is not true. A believer can lose his salvation. And there are many warnings addressed to believers in the epistles that make that fact clear.

Shalom!

Thank you for speaking out what you believe is true. I know some people who would have looked the other way, as long as it's against the Catholic Church.

joey150:
thank you for the kind words

You are welcome bro, continue the good works. I stand to assure you that there is nothing the Catholic Church teaches that contradicts scripture in anyway. Despite this, the church and not scripture is the "pillar and ground of truth". People who condemn out of ignorance eventually arrive as long as they are receptive to truth. See the one making too much noise above, but with just three sentences and without quoting scripture, a basic truth has been declared to him by Ayoku777, which completely nullifies all his rants and boasts up there. Let him come and demand scripture support.

ayoku777:
The reason the church is the pillar of truth is because no man is an island of knowledge or a fountain of wisdom all by himself. As believers, we all see and know in part.

1Cor 13v9 - For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

We all know in part and see in part, and it is when we bring together the parts that we see and know as a church that we can fully see and understand the big picture of the counsel of God in His word.

That is why scripture said;

Psalm 19v9 -The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous ALTOGETHER

It is together that the truth and righteousness of God's judgment and counsel can be seen and understood. That is why and how the church come in as the pillar of truth.

But a church cannot just come up with a doctrine or tradition that can't be found in the written word of God, and when challenged, they claim the church is the pillar of truth not the bible. Say what?

Even when the first church council sat in Acts 15 to make deliberations and decisions about the gentile church in antioch, it was still the scriptures that they kept quoting to justify and establish their decision.

Acts 15v13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15  And to this agree the words of the prophets; AS IT IS WRITTEN, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Can you see that? The church council in Jerusalem used the written word to come up with the traditions and doctrines they postulated and passed down. They just did not pull doctrines out of their hat independently of the written word and claim the church is the pillar of truth not the scriptures.

I know what you're trying to do. You're try to say and argue that the catholic church is superior to the bible, because that is the only way you can justify the unscriptural doctrines you peddle. You want to say that the catholic church is the pillar of truth not the bible. And thereby claim that traditions the catholic church preach and hold to are true and sound whether they are found in the scriptures or not.

Brother, you can only sell that argument to ignorant christians. All the traditions and doctrines that the early church postulated and passed down always passed the test of agreement with the written word.

Acts 15v13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:... 15  And to this agree the words of the prophets; AS IT IS WRITTEN,

Can you see that? The church that is the pillar of truth is the church that its traditions and doctrines agree with the written word of God, not a church that preaches and practises things that can't be found anywhere in the written word of God.

Mary praying for believers is not found in the written word. Asking dead saints to pray for us is not found in the written word. Purgatory, rosary prayers etc and many other catholic traditions, are not found in the written word. So she can't be a pillar of truth, when she preaches and practises things that can't be found in the written word.

Shalom!

All he wrote there are in agreement with scripture, no catholic teaching is contrary to scripture. Problem is, when you now are ready to excuse James and the apostles for acting by the spirit of scriptures, you demand that their successors act by the letters of scripture. When he calls Mary mother of Jesus, in accordance to scriptures, another asks for scriptural backing where Jesus called her Mother. That is the problem you have. Read further same passage of acts 15, and tell me where James saw in the scripture the letters " Circumcision is not needed to make the gentiles God's adopted children". And talking about the church, the pillar and ground of truth, Have you found it? Pray let's know, and don't tell me its the Christian community, for the Church must be one fold, teach with authority and cannot teach error.

debbie:
my dear..i am good,trusting God in every challenge...my family followed the 9day novena we had over here and i am eagerly waiting for the outpouring of the holy spirit tomorrow.
Its been a period of spiritual growth and revelation.
hope you are good and fine.

i greet everyone

To God be the glory. Am fine, thanks.

laribari:
I will pass , our last encountered says it all. I remember you now and you are the man that hasn't told a single lie since he was born and not even lately too.

How did Christ treat the pharisees when I asked you a simple question that you dodge till today...lol. Very funny. Speaking of the last time, I handled you well so don't sound like a champion because you ran in the end remember? But this time, I will pass because I know ur type and what is coming. Gabage in, Gabage out!

As usual, this argument will be deadlock but let the truth I have shared speak for me. I have stayed within the scriptures whenever i make points because I know there are a lot of info I have which many do not and I always say let's prove what we say scripturally.

Anyways, like I said I will just leave you guys to what you believe. I always except that I'm proven wrongly by the bible but hasn't really happened, instead we argue needlessly and others won't be benefited. What is the point.

The bold is all that mattered. God bless you.

laribari:
Which seed? Make you point known based on scriptures. Prove me wrong based on scriptures. Decieve yourself.

I have showed you evidence from bible only the lost will remain blind.

The things of God are foolishness to the wise according to the bible.

Even devil nor dey soul seed? It depends on the seed u are talking about.

With everything I have proven from scriptures, it will become wasteful to fools.

You can bail him out

You are aware of our first encounter, if you come haughty, I will treat you like Jesus treating the pharisees and scribes. If you want to discuss calmly, I am ready to clarify things for you. However if your mind is made up that we are going to hell and you're the judge sent to condemn us, then there's not much we can do but await your punishment oga. I have no time to go through the whole thread (I have quite a number of things to do...including keeping my deal of a book reading with analice107). If there is a particular one you want to draw my attention to, please do.

debbie:
Where have i been?

Nne, na so I just de ask that kweshion for my mind o, where auntie debbie dey? But I trust God Its well with you. You no go join the prayers? We never go half way o.

Meanwhile, Dear brethren,today is the last day of the Novena to the Holy Spirit. Tomorrow is the Pentecost Sunday.

Well done joey150 for your calmness and insightful responses. It is like the seed sown, to some it is on fertile ground, a call to thoughts, search and prayers, but to others....na waste.

May our prayers for you peppyluv02 find favour before our God. Amen.

Amberon:
Since when did church affiliation become faith? He belongs to the Christian faith and that's it. The body of Christ is where we belong as Christians and no church membership can give us that.

Why do you catholics feel superior for no reason? Who told you Apostle Paul or Timothy referred to the catholic church? Lmao!

Now he jumps in with his own accusations, clearly overlooking all the accusations against the Catholic church by fellow christians, claiming that the "christian faith" with all the contradictory teachings, is the Church. Open your eyes to the truth, the Holy Spirit is not an author of confusion. We just practice our thing as inspired of the Holy Spirit, which we received from the apostles and church fathers, you and others won't just leave us alone.

DoctorAlien:
Where did the Bible state that Mary was in Egypt for three and a half years?

Where is Joseph in the picture? Didn't Joseph fly with her to the wilderness?

Meanwhile, her child was caught up to Heaven before she flew to the wilderness: was Jesus caught up to Heaven before Mary went to Egypt?

hahaha, before i answer, I have my own question. Confirm here that the name of your Church is the remnant? Since the mark of the beast is the sabbath of the beast...according to your church,What exactly in clear terms is the Sabbath of the beast, who are those with the mark and what happens to them as per being saved.?

analice107:
LOLzz. You are a gentleman.

Thanks.