₦airaland Forum

DoctorAlien:
It is clear to all and sundry that Moses and Elijah are in Heaven now.

The thief is in his grave.

There was a mistake in the translation of the Bible: read Luke 23:43. That comma after "thee" should have come after "to day".

So, it correctly reads "...I say unto thee to day, thou shalt be with me..."

So Moses and Elijah came from Heaven, they were in heaven before Christ death abi? Yet scriptures says:

(Heb.9:11,12): "Christ being come a high-priest of the good things to come . . . by His own blood entered once into the Holies, having obtained eternal redemption.

Then according to you, the thief is in the grave, when Jesus had said to him "Today you will be with me in Paradise"

Now I see how much you believe scriptures.

DoctorAlien:
I thought you were the one that said the 17th verse of 1 Cor. 3 was talking about hell?

Answer my question.

Now you are being dodgy. Be honest and answer me, I have been answering your questions straight and honestly. Yes that verse is talking about hell. I did not say it's people who committed a particular sin. Destroying the temple of the lord is not a particular sin.

DoctorAlien:


Do these verses agree?

"...But the dead know nothing..." Eccl. 9:5

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Psa.146:4

If the verses mean what you think literally, how then did Moses and Elijah know about the coming death of Christ LK9:31. And tell me where the good thief went? The grave?

DoctorAlien:
It is clear from that passage that those people were on earth, and that Christ through the Holy Spirit was speaking to them in Noah's preachings to repent, but they refused: their spirits were in the prison of sin. They were therefore destroyed by the flood.

Hahahahaha, I hope you are still talking about this "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;..". First Peter tells us He was put to death in the flesh, then quickened by the spirit, he went to preach, then in verse 21 he tells us of his resurrection, then in verse 22 he talks of his ascension and enthronement in Heaven. And they have been teaching you something else. Chai.

DoctorAlien:
Joey150 said "after death, before heaven" and you said "after the individual judgment". I believe this individual judgment will involve everybody: when will the individual judgment take place?

There will be two judgements:

1. Immediately after you die

2. When Christ shall come in glory to Judge the living and the dead.

DoctorAlien:
Syncan, you quoted 1 Cor. 3 as talking about Heaven, purgatory and hell, with verse 17 (supposedly)referring to those that will go to hell: is that the only sin for which one can be sent to hell?

What sin do you think it was talking about?

DoctorAlien:
"...but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah..." 1 Pet. 3:18-20

Syncan, how does this passage support the view of purgatory?

Two quick questions before we proceed.

1. Were those people on earth?
2. Did the effect of the Blood of Christ get to them?

DoctorAlien:
There's only one group of people that will be in Heaven: those that washed their robes in the blood of the lamb.

If somebody goes through purgatory into Heaven, what sanctified him and made him fit for Heaven?

It is the blood of Christ that draws God's mercy. A great exposition of the High degree of God's mercy is the fact that He does not punish all sin with hellfire, It is the merit of that blood of Christ which is felt here on earth in the forgiveness of our sin when we ask for pardon, and also felt by "the spirits in prison" 1Pet3:19, it's that same blood that obtains purification for the souls in purgatory, for they can no longer help themselves. The Power of the blood of Christ is felt beyond this earth.

DoctorAlien:
I don't know how you twisted this convo into "once saved always saved". It is clearly not a Bible doctrine and I don't support it.

Very good then. It means we have to cooperate with grace, by our works, in order to gain heaven.

DoctorAlien:
Do the verses say there is purgatory?

If you say "working out your salvation" hints at purgatory (of course it doesn't), will everybody go to purgatory?

What that verse simply removes is the heresy that "once saved, always saved". Hence if we now agree with scripture that the believer can lose his salvation through sin, and we agree with scripture that not all sin lead to death, then what happens to the believer who died with sin not leading to death (eg. Lack of respect during prayer), for which he has not asked pardon of? That's were 1 cor 3:15 comes in, such a one will make heaven, but "so as by fire". He will be purged of those stain before entering heaven, for nothing unclean shall enter Rev.21:27 That's purgatory right there.

DoctorAlien:
Yes. He was saved.

Good, then was he conscious to run the race properly when he said this: But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. 1Cor. 9:27 Why will the great St. paul be weary of being disqualified, and you are here saying you cannot be disqualified, that everything has been paid for. It means you simply are getting something wrong.

DoctorAlien:
Syncan, what do you have to say about the verses below?

“Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” Romans 6:1-2.

"Sin is the transgression of the law" 1 Jn 3:4

This is an exhortation that those who have merited from the saving grace of Christ's redemptive sacrifice, do not take the mercy of God for granted and continue to live in sin, for this is a wrong notion that once saved, always saved. That's why he warned saying: Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall. 1Cor.10:12 and he went further to say why, when he said :For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost...If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame., Heb.6:4-6

DoctorAlien:
They are just stringing verses that don't even hint at purgatory let alone supporting their false purgatory claim

Somebody is trying to twist "work out your salvation" to mean there is purgatory. Chai!

Stop confusing yourself. Those verses are in support of the fact that we have a part to play in our salvation, you didn't know this before did you?

DoctorAlien:
Syncan, define purgatory and see if the following verses agree with the definition

I have earlier given you a simple explanation and definition with scripture. I will now again use scripture to enlighten you again. However before i go on i need you to answer this first. Was St. Paul Saved at the time he was writing the epistles?

Ubenedictus:
HEB 8:13 Tell us d old covenant from hence we get d old law is now obsolate
New International Version
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and
outdated will soon disappear.
New Living Translation
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it
means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

Gbam!

Heb.7:18 So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect),

DoctorAlien:
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Cor. 3:13-15.

Syncan, what scene is depicted in the passage above?

I have explained this before, but you like going in circus, I will do that now as simple as I can.

1Cor 3:13 - Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (Judgement)

1cor3:14 - If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (Heaven)

1cor3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (Purgatory)

1cor3:17 - If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (Hell fire)


Tell me your own submission if you disagree.

May our prayers for you today Equalizer, find favour before our God. Amen.

Ubenedictus:
So u dont care that somebody removed books from the bible? u are happy with a mutilated bible?

you have been shouting about bible to catholics since morning and yet u dont care that the bible you have is not the complete bible canonise in d 4th century.

i dont think u care about the truth all u care about is throwing jabs at catholics

I gave her the benefit of doubt, but she gave me the same impression as you have now.

DoctorAlien:
Joey150, is Jesus command in Matt. 5:48 impossible?

Did David go to purgatory?

Nothing unclean shall enter Heaven: is the blood of Jesus not enough to make one fit for Heaven?

If the only group that will be in Heaven are those who washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, where is purgatory in the picture?

I don't expect you to go back to already answered questions. I took care of this yesterday. Go back to it.

analice107:
You are indulging me? No sir, you are not. You posted the verses which you are yet to complete.
Talking about the correlation of those scriptures, that appears like desperation to me, that is like grabbing straws trying to keep afloat. Those Scriptures not related sir.

Good thing you said to do it for those reading and not for you. i have posted it , if you didnt see then let it be, let those who see make use of it.

analice107:
There's something you don't get, Catholicism is a distinct religion. Catholicism is not Christianity, No sir, it not. You go and win souls for the Pope, i will go and win for Christ.

Hahaha, for two thousand years, Catholics spread the good news, won souls for Christ, from atheists and Pagans of different nations including your fore fathers. They laid their lives for it, they were eating by wild beasts, crucified, drowned, burnt, yet they preached on Christ crucified. They Collected, selected and canonized a list of books into one book, to help them propagate this Christianity. Whoever you call your champion in whatever supposed Christianity you practice, learned about Christ from the Catholic Church.

analice107:
You claim the Bible books of new testament referenced these books yet you want us to use google engine to check? I have the books, i have read the passages, but your readers may not have it , so am asking that you do it for them.

You are very persuasive. I hope it's sincere. Let me for now make some points clear, reference in the new testament isn't all that were considered in calling a book inspired, even the new testament itself passed through scrutiny. At the time of the collection there were old testament books not in the Palestinian Jewish canons, that were in the Alexandrian Jewish canons.

I will indulge you this once.

This is Heb 11.35. " Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life..."

Here St. Paul obviously was speaking about the heroic acts of the woman and her seven children in 2 Maccabees chapter 7, who preferred to lay down their lives than disobey the law of God. The woman had said in verse 29 of the book to her son: Don't be afraid of this butcher. Give up your life willingly and prove yourself worthy of your brothers, so that by God's mercy I may receive you back with them at the resurrection.

laribari:
SYNCAN.........

let me say this before hand so that you don't say i ran away oo.

i will be off till like 6 or 7, i need to prepare some stuff for office tomorrow

I will take any mention or comments when i get back, especially if Ayo777 has responded to the purgatory question i asked him. It is not a condition, i just wanna learn his view on that. And please attend to your duties, I don't expect less, Jesus demands that you do your work diligently.

GO BACK TO THE FIRST LINE OF HIS POST TO ME. Before he started, he said i think.......

usually, my view is that when you think or feel that something should be like this or that, that doesn't mean it is correct or has to be so all the time. I do not think he is wrong, i know so.

I have alot to show him by the same scriptures he brought out as evidence for his reason and you (Syncan) will be amazed by the responses i will make to him. I'm not a novice in God word or read out of context.

I am fully prepared, don't worry.

meanwhile, let me rush to finish the things i must do first.

Sir you may not be a novice in the word of God, but you still don't have the whole truth, this is a discussion, let truth be laid bare here. Even the apostles deliberated on issues. Acts 15.

laribari:
I do not use sentiments and i don't follow what you guys discussed before as it's not so convenient for me something to read through.

I must concentrate on my mentions and that is where it concerns me i guess, so i didn't see where you disagreed with him and on what. Do you think i don't have my own view about that macabees discussion but i choose to stay stay away for now and probably won't even comment unless i'm mentioned.

I have told you, i have alot of catholic friends and we don't talk about these things because i respect their views but whenever the topic arises even in the office, we discuss and i tell them what i bible says. we agree, disagree or whatever but that doesn't change my view of how i see them.

I don't have issues with catholics but the doctrine. Chikina.

Anyways, im not supposed to talk till like 6 or 7, or less i not go finish my report oo.

Please do not play with your daily bread, make sure you take your job seriously and prepare appropriately. Nairaland is just social media and it's for spare time, I understand if you're out, I myself don't always come here. I posted where I disagreed with him for you to see, and if you had said immediately "oh sorry, I didn't see that", the matter would have ended. No qualms, the Catholic Church will continue to teach the truth as always done throughout the ages. You may believe, you may not .

analice107:
If you actually want the world to see what you are saying as true, quote the scriptures out for them to see. I wont quote them. Anytime i use a scripture i quote it, so, go ahead and quote it. then within CONTEXT link them up. Scriptures don't stand in Isolation and make meaning, scriptures interpret scriptures

The Bible is everywhere, even online, it's not difficult even to search through commentaries if you don't understand. I have quoted scriptures, if you didn't find it lets know, if you found them and didn't agree, tell me.

analice107:
Quote out your references sir. its not enough to Post the chapters and Verses, lets us read them and you explain how the reference each other.

I had started typing them out, but changed my mind, i wont do your work for you.

It's not my work, I have given you references even non Catholics have acknowledged, especially the Macc, if you have a problem with them, then point it out.

laribari:
see what you said n the quote...................... if he truly know the scriptures and can destroy my teachers because i don't teach vain, then he has to know something about purgatory.

the thing with you is that you want me to accept your view by force and u dont have evidence. i show you what i teach

He has stated he doesn't believe in Purgatory, that is his own, why do you continue to insist he teach you that? I do not want you or anyone to accept my view by force, all I want is a truthful discuss, not one that is blinded by hatred and hard heartedness of the Pharisees, who despite all that Jesus was saying and doing to prove who he was, decided not to believe.

laribari:
My Lord!! do you understand English? What does that mean now?

Didn't you say he has rubbished all my teachings because he posted so much about salvation? You accredited him that he knows the word of God and so why will he not know about purgatory?

what is wrong in what i said?



Didn't you praise him for opposing what i said that he is correct and when it comes to your own view about purgatory then he has to be wrong.


My question again is this ............................... why will he know something that deep and technical in the scriptures (since you feel he is correct, even though i know he is not) and will not know something as simple as purgatory.

Purgatory is not complicated the way you guys are saying it, it's just that it is wrong and can't be proven biblically.

You have been selectively choosing what you see. You did not see where I disagreed with him first, but you saw where I agree with him. Chai. Oga, All I do is stand by truth as taught by the Church, the pillar and ground of truth. It doesn't matter who says it, believe me if you say the truth in any particular issue and he says contrary, I will stand by you. The thing is that the Church teaches the whole truth, he and others agree with some, while you and others agree with some. In some, you agree together, in others you disagree together.

Same to you too.

laribari:
Sorry no vex, i nor wan send you message twice. The thing is i dey rush to respond because my network (MTN) doesn't help.

You are here to teach us about purgatory? logically or scripturally? I'm really willing to learn..

The honest truth here is that you are the one acting childish..

How can you tell me that someone that you so praise for knowing scriptures cannot know about purgatory must he must know about salvation?

where is fairness in your word?

My goodness! Please who made the post below, and to whom?

laribari:
Finally, someone that knows the scriptures but before we go further please I need you your view on the below....

laribari:
I just edited my post, God and read while we wait for Ayo777.

You have started again, editing posts already written, well I have quoted you and responded. Stop being childishly evasive, he has no business educating you about purgatory, he doesn't know about it either, I am here to do that, only you need to humble your self and learn.

postmann:
Is Christianity a religion of numbers?

Was the declaration CHRIST made on Peter meant for the Catholic Church on Christianity in general?

Or are you standing on the ridiculous claim by the church that the Pope is the direct successor of Peter?
Hmmm! Look, focus on salvation and save yourself from denominational bondage.

The declaration of Christ on Peter is to the Church that has Peter as the shepherd and to His successors. Does your church make any claim of link with Peter? It is not Christianity in general, else people will not be telling their fellow Christians that they are going to hell due to their doctrines. So many doctrines in Christianity, it cannot all be from the Holy Spirit, He is not an author of confusion. The Church Instituted by Christ cannot be overcome by the gates of Hell. He is focused on his salvation, you are the one that won't let him be.