₦airaland Forum

elampiro:
Good.

Can you help me with Cardinal Ratzinger writing on the issue?

Some of my Catholic friends following Maria Divine Mercy have a way of blowing some things out of proportion. I no longer agree with them.

@ bold, welcome back. The Pope is right in setting up a commission, we need to find out for example, the extent of Phoebe's involvement in the church at the time of Paul Rom.16:1-2, this will help the church explore as much as she could the participation of her female children in the liturgy and evangelism. This is the Catholic Church meticulous way of doing things, with the presence of the Holy Spirit, new light may be thrown on areas considered gray till now. "The Paraclete will teach you all things" did not have a time frame.

blueAgent:
Lol.... I tire for this kind person. God help us.

May God help us speak the truth when we see it. One thing with truth is that it's always simple, not hidden in much words, when we find ourselves using many words in place of a simple answer,then we need to re-examine, there exists a problem there, probably at the beginning. So my friend do find a simple answer for him... and for us too.

Ubenedictus:
blueagent, please stop the commentary and give me a one line answer, what is the ministry of death carved in stone?

cc btok, syncan.

Hahahaha, you go look for one line answer tire.

Ubenedictus:
they later received their rewards after Jesus death.

Exactly. That is after Christ the high priest entered once and for all into the most high place. Heb.9: 12. St. Paul actually went further to clear every doubt when he said" For that reason Christ is the one who arranges a new covenant, so that those who have been called by God may receive eternal blessings that God has promised. Heb.9:15

OZAOEKPE:
i am back

Welcome.

DoctorAlien:
This may be the article you're going to quote for me, Syncan: www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html
...
in the verse below, what does the word translate mean?

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because GOD had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased GOD" Heb. 11:5
Heb. 11:39 says Moses and co DID NOT receive the promise. What promise was being talked about here?

On the issue of translate, having read that link, I will simply post the response as contained therein.

:
"The Bible does not say that Enoch went to heaven when he was translated. Instead, it says he "was not found." According to Strong's, Thayer's and Bullinger's Greek Lexicons, "translate" means "to put or place in another place, to transport, to transfer." Nowhere in the Scripture does ‘translate’ mean to make immortal!

The same Greek word is rendered "carried over" in Acts 7:16 where Jacob's body was ‘translated’ or ‘transported’ to Sychem, where he was buried! The Scriptures say Jacob was translated to the place of burial! God took Enoch and buried him somewhere so as not to be found, just as he did with the body of Moses in Deuteronomy 34:6. No man knows where Moses' or Enoch’s grave is. God hid them for reasons known only to Him.

Notice another proof that ‘translate’ does not mean to make immortal. Paul wrote that the Father "hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son" (Colossians 1:13). The apostle Paul says that he was already translated, even though he was still physically alive! Although he was once part of the darkness of this world, he was translated, removed from darkness, into the light of the kingdom of God while he was physically alive!"

On the matter of Promise, It's very clear, and that disproves your claim that they were in the heavenly kingdom before Jesus came. The promise as stated in that verse is the heavenly kingdom, and they never went there, that's why scripture says "they didn't receive the promise". Heb.11:39

DoctorAlien:
Where did Elijah go?

DoctorAlien:
This may be the article you're going to quote for me, Syncan: www.ecclesia.org/truth/enoch.html
But I have few questions for you:
Where in the Bible does it say that Elijah was taken to another Heaven that is not the place where GOD is?
in the verse below, what does the word translate mean?
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because GOD had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased GOD" Heb. 11:5
Heb. 11:39 says Moses and co DID NOT receive the promise. What promise was being talked about here?

Wow! Splendid! Going through that Page you posted just felt like cool breeze, I could not help but whistle. What this showed me is that you can no longer say you didn't hear the truth. If you decide to harden your heart, na you sabi. For the sake of summary, let me put it this way:

Scripture makes mention of three heavens:
1. Terrestrial (on earth)- The sky where birds fly, the atmosphere, as seen in Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25; 34:20, Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3.
2. Telestial (seen with aid of telescope) - outer space where the planets and stars exist, as seen in Genesis 1:14-17; 15:5; 22:17; 26:4, Deuteronomy 1:10; 17:3; Psalm 8:3, Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29
3.Celestial (Spiritual) - God's throne, and the heavenly jerusalem, as seen in Galatians 4: 26; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 3:12), the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 25:1, James 2:5), the "eternal kingdom" (2 Peter 1:11)

The scripture made sure we know its in plural when we read in Psalm 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

In order to be confirm to DoctorAlien and his likes that Elijah was not taken to this third (celestial) heaven, no other person but Jesus himself had to speak, and he was very direct. He said in Jn.3:13:No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven. But did Doctoralien believe him? No. his heart is hardened like that of his fathers at meribah, when they put the Lord to the test. Smh.

joey150:
i guess you now want to dwell on quarrelsomeness now??

go and read what i posted just for you.. give me your feedback.

He is confounded. He is now clutching on straws rather than acknowledge truth. He even doubts Jesus now.

DoctorAlien:
Hahahahahahahahahahaha

Which Heaven did He tell you that was?

There are three heavens mentioned in Scripture, Elijah did not go to heaven where God is. Jesus said so! Tomorrow God willing I will show you more about this, for the benefit of those who love scriptures and want to learn.

DoctorAlien:
So GOD will not put you in hell even when you stubbornly continue in quarrelsomeness. What delusion! Have you not heard that GOD is continually angry with the wicked? Or is being quarrelsome righteous?

Have some shame when you tell lies. No one has said a believer should continue in any sin, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound. However, scripture recognize that man is imperfect and says " he who says he is without sin makes God a liar", Also there are sins that does not lead to death. In Gal. 5, St Paul lists sins that will send one to hell, do you now accuse St. Paul of encouraging other sins he didn't list?

Joel150, if you have anything further to post you may continue, those who read are not all hard hearted. It matters not how the Jews mock Jesus, those who heard and recognized truth believed.

DoctorAlien:
Yes. I'm not quarrelsome, I don't lack respect, I try as much as possible to live a life that is pleasant to GOD. I don't delude myself that I can continue meddling with sin and still not "fall from grace".

Now I hear the Pharisee speaking and pointing at the publican. You don't show impatience, you offer charity to all you should, you never criticize, you don't ever use uncharitable words. Not every one of us is like you, we strive each day to overcome, but often times we find ourselves "into those things we try to avoid", like St. Paul. And just like him we "die daily", in discipline and reparation. We don't call scripture a liar by saying we are without sin. However, we know death can come at any time, and our work will burn if we have even one of those sins, but we are sure that the justice will not allow anything unclean into heaven, yet we know that the mercy of God will not put us in hell, yet we shall be saved so as by fire.

DoctorAlien:
Please answer the questions.

Even Jesus didn't answer every question. Some are just not worth it.

DoctorAlien:
And when exactly did I say that?

When GOD tells us to flee every "appearances" of evil, do you he was joking? How can you shamelessly claim that someone who is quarrelsome cannot "fall from grace"?

You assume maybe everybody is quarrelsome, lacks respect and does all those things you listed there as "sins not unto death", maybe because you live in them, consoling yourself that you cannot fall from grace: please, flee every appearances of evil.

Nothing sinful will enter Heaven. And those who will enter Heaven will appear before GOD wearing only the righteousness of Christ.

Wow! Now I see one who does not sin . One who is ready for heaven because he does not commit any sin.

DoctorAlien:
Let me now assume you have not read this part of the scripture:

"...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into Heaven." 2 Kngs 2:11


What do you now have to say?

Do not assume, I have read it, and Christ has enlightened me further, by assuring me that the heaven written there, does not actually mean heaven where God is. For he said No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven

DoctorAlien:
Just look at how they are encouraging people to commit "sins not unto death" with the hope that they will not "fall from grace". Even when the Bible warns us to flee every appearances of evil. Surely Satan is working tirelessly.

Lol, but according to you, they will stroll into heaven with these sins, Since Christ have paid for them.

DoctorAlien:
Where are these sins mentioned in the Bible and tagged "sins not unto death"?

Even if you continue being quarrelsome, you will not fall from grace, according to you?

Make use of your brain a little, don't be lazy.

DoctorAlien:
Somebody does not know again whether Elijah was taken to Heaven or not. See what twisting GOD's word has led people into.

Don't worry, those who read our conversation will already know, that Like Jesus answered the pharisees who asked him by whose power he acts, so shall that scripture be there for you. If you don't believe Jesus, I cannot help you, I believe him.

Jn.3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven

DoctorAlien:
What is the sin not unto death?

They are many. I am sure you neglect them, they are sins that are not mentioned in the passage i gave you, such as:

Uncharitable criticism, desire for attention (vanity), disrespect, Ingratitude, quarrelsomeness, lack of respect in prayer, ignoring occasion to offer charity, and such likes.

DoctorAlien:
Are there sins one can commit and still not fall from grace?

1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

DoctorAlien:
You won't answer again?

Was Elijah taken to Heaven? YES or NO?

Jesus said:

Jn.3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven

DoctorAlien:
You never posted how one can fall from grace: please, how can one fall from grace?

Really? Is it that you're lying or you didn't see it? Ok, just see the bold in my post.

Syncan:
1John5:17...There is sin that leads to death. These are sins that removes sanctifying grace, this grace keeps soul alive, but when you comit sins such as mentioned in Gal 5:19-21, you fall from grace, you become dead, you destroy the temple of the Lord. If you die in this condition without repentance, you go to hell.

If someone had no opportunity of hearing the good news and lived morally right, then he dies, will he go to hell?

DoctorAlien:
Was Elijah carried into Heaven or not? Yes or NO?

Listen to Jesus and answer yourself.

Jn.3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven

DoctorAlien:
So, if you "fall from grace", you have destroyed GOD's temple, according to you: how can one fall from grace?

Stop going in circles, i posted the below earlier.

Syncan:
1John5:17...There is sin that leads to death. These are sins that removes sanctifying grace, this grace keeps soul alive, but when you comit sins such as mentioned in Gal 5:19-21, you fall from grace, you become dead, you destroy the temple of the Lord. If you die in this condition without repentance, you go to hell.

If someone had no opportunity of hearing the good news and lived morally right, then he dies, will he go to hell?

DoctorAlien:
Are you trying to force words on me?

Enoch and co are yet to receive the rewards of their good deeds. GOD decided to take them to Heaven according to His will, but until the Lamb was slain, their rewards were not made sure. That was why Elijah and Moses came down at the transfiguration to strengthen Christ for His task of redeeming humanity.

Same thing you have been saying. If they have not received their reward, they lack it, hence they lack. And if you say they were in heaven, then it's simple, they lacked in heaven. Do you see how ridiculous your claim is? That's why you can't own up to it, and you suddenly decide not to understand again. Now you also make Jesus a liar Jn.3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven

DoctorAlien:
Eph.4:30 doesn't say that the new man is the temple of GOD.

Answer my question: what is the temple of GOD?

Chai, sealed with the Holy Spirit means what? It is to the new man, the believer that st. Paul addresses thus Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?. So St. Paul says the New man, the believer is the temple of God.

DoctorAlien:
I don't know if you think the reward GOD's people are going to receive in Heaven comprises bags of rice and clothing, hence your bizarre notion that since Enoch and co are yet to receive their rewards, they are supposedly in lack.

Hahaha, my brother, lets just say the truth. If you have not gotten something that you need, you lack that thing. If they have not gotten their reward which they obviously need, then they are in lack? And you say this happens in heaven, so there is lack in heaven I don die.

DoctorAlien:
You explained what? That falling from grace is destroying GOD's temple? Is that teaching in the Bible?

What is GOD's temple?

You just have nothing else to say. I will once again teach step by step.

When a man in accepting Christ, leaves his old ways of sin----- Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts.

through repentance of heart----Eph.4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

he puts on a new man by the action of Grace from God----- Eph.4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This new man is the temple of God ---- Eph.4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

You have heard o, harden not your heart. Heb.3:15

DoctorAlien:
Did I say so?

Those people are in Heaven but none have received their rewards. Christ's death on the cross assured the reward they will receive.

Hahahaha, they are in heaven but have not received their reward, wow! . So they are in heaven but still in lack?

DoctorAlien:
So, if someone falls from grace, he has destroyed GOD's temple? Is that what the Bible says?

I am sure I explained it enough for even a child, your sarcasm does not change scripture.

DoctorAlien:
Have you not read that Elijah was carried to Heaven by a whirlwind?

Or that GOD took Moses after his death?

Or that GOD took Enoch to Heaven?

These people were in Heaven before Christ's death.

So some people did not need the redemptive power of Christ's death abi. It was you who pointed out that Only those washed in the blood of Christ are in heaven, it is you now telling me that some didn't need to wash in the blood of Christ. Haba!

DoctorAlien:
So destroying the temple of GOD is general sin? How many sins make it up?

If somebody lives the whole of his life on earth morally right, but did not acknowledge Jesus: we both know he is going to hell.

Did he destroy GOD's temple? Since GOD will destroy those who destroy His temple (and you said it is hell).

1John5:17...There is sin that leads to death. These are sins that removes sanctifying grace, this grace keeps soul alive, but when you comit sins such as mentioned in Gal 5:19-21, you fall from grace, you become dead, you destroy the temple of the Lord. If you die in this condition without repentance, you go to hell.

If someone had no opportunity of hearing the good news and lived morally right, then he dies, will he go to hell?