₦airaland Forum

@Easyy,

Are Nairaland users not allowed to form opinions based on whatever they believe?

No one ever implied what you have said above. Rather, I have only pointed out what I believe is a fact: most, if not all those who have expressed opinions, either good or bad, have no experiential knowledge of who an average American is. Most of the submissions I guess, are probably from the news media and Hollywood.

If such criteria is used for generalising Nigerians, then I guess we will all be regarded as 419ers and as fetish people.

In addition to coolstuff4real's submission, here's some more information I gathered about this so-called 12th Imam.

According to Shi'iah belief, there will always be a relationship between a Prophet and an Imam.  Consequently, they have tried to show this in the history of prophecy.   for instance, they believe that though Abraham received God's covenant, Isaac and Ishmael were the Imams who fulfilled it; Moses had Aaron, and Jesus had Peter.  In the same way, they believe that Muhammad may have been the seal of the Prophets, but it was left to Ali, his legitimate sucessor to reveal his message.  Thus the Shi'ite profession of faith goes thus: "there is no god  but God, Muhammed is God's messenger, and Ali is God's Executor (wali)".

As the executor of god's will, the Imam is like the Prophet, infallible and sinless, for "sin would destroy the validity of the call."  Consequently, the Shi'ahs believe that Imams were created not from dust, as other humans were, but from eternal light.  Furthermore, the imams are said to preserve a secret esoteric knowledge handed down from Imam to Imam in a mystical transfer of consciousness.  This esoteric knowledge includes the keeping of secret books, such as The Book of Fatima, which recounts Gabriel's revelations to Fatima after Muhammad's death.  The Imams also know the secret name of God and are only the ones who possess the spiritual guidance necessary to reveal the inner truth of the Muslim faith.

There is more to come.  Please stay tuned.

I am sure he does not realise that over 500 people saw Jesus after His resurrection.  Can he tell us how many people witnessed the so-called Angel Gabriel givng messages to Muhammad?

I am also waiting for his response why Muhammad venerated the image of Jesus and Mary in the Kabba while destroying those of Abraham and others. I am also waiting for him to produce for us the Gospel which his allah claims to have sent down to earth.  Likewise, I hope he will not forget to tell us the version of the koran he is quoting from, whether it is the one authored by Abu Bakr or Uthman, or better still, some of the various versions destroyed by uthman.

We await your response hoping that your e-association with us on this thread will rub off enough on you to make some intelligent posts.

How many Americans have been to places about which they also form opinions?

Where are the opinions? Beside, this is not about America forming an opinion but about Nairalanders forming one.

@babs787,

Apart from the fact that you have side-stepped all the issues I raised, you seem to be suffering from blindness. here is the pasage in Revelation I gave to you again:
Revelation 22: 12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." 17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

Can you see the word in bold? That is Jesus Himself speaking.

Now that you have called John (a disciple of Jesus) a liar, can you please tell us what Gospel that your allah claimed he sent down to Christians? Or has he misplaced that Gospel forever? He must be very careless don't you think?

In any case, can you tell me whose writings you believe now so i can show you what the person has to say. And as i said, if you will quote from the Koran, you will need to tell us whose version it is you are quting from and why that is the authentic one.

For those who have attended the hajj, do they now have the assurance that theire sins have been forgiven? On what basis and what premise do they expect their sins to be forgiven?

Mercy can never be dispensed by God without justice. How will God's justice to punish sin be met if He just arbitrarily offers you mercy? Can someone provide the ansers for these? I'm sure many may not have given it a thought.

How many of you have met and lived with or had any form of relationships with Americans to be making all these conclusions? Or are your conclusions just based on Hollywood and CNN reports?

Since when did obligation become law?  

I am not surprised by the lack of support from the veto wielding super powers in the security council.  I am sure the support is not unconnected with some clandestine moves with regards to the the oil for food programme.   It is obvious that economics, not law, sanctity of human life, nor honour that guide the votes at the UN security council.

I've asked this question before with no answer from anybody.  What if Bush went into Sudan without the UN's blessing to stop the genocide, would you all still cry illegality?  Is the inaction of the US in Sudan justified as long as they abide by the indecision of the UN?

What if the US goes into Sudan and got rid of the irresponsible Government and a situation arises in Sudan where the different ethnic groups continue to kill each other like we have in Iraq. Would you still blame the U.S. for that?

@babs787,

if it is Jesus christ in the bible you are expecting, forget it, he's not coming even if he is coming, do you think he will come as a christian?

Exactly what are you blabbling about here? Are you suggesting He is coming or are you saying otherwise? If you are going to expresss ignorance, at least try to do so in a very clear way. That way, we can know how to cure you of that which has afflicted you. Sying He is not going to come, then saying If He comes only shows that we are dealing with a confused person here.

do you think he will come to Israel or Nigeria.
do you think he will come as the"supposed jesus' you are having here and there as his pictures?.
if he even comes, he will be denied by christians because he will come with islamic monotheism and declare to you many ignorant things christians have been doing

I would have expected you to include Mecca or at least that idol shrine called kabba in your list. If you want to know what the glorified Jesus looks like, please read the Book of Revelation (by Apostle John) and you will have a clearer picture. At least not only was John a Disciple who walked with Jesus, He saw Him after His resurrection and also saw Him in his revelation of heaven. So we can trust his testimony better than some bedoiun prophet who has no witness of his supposedly divine visitations.
[b]Revelations 1:[/b]12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
I'm sure you can not even begin to compare this picture of Jesus to that of mohammed who is dead and rotten in the grave somewhere in the sands of Arabia.

he will not come in the form of the so called diferent pictures you are having with you.

So what image of Jesus are you holding on to? Is it the one that Mohammed asked not to be washed out with Zamzam water from the kabba despite the fact that he asked that the one for Abraham be washed out? Why did he leave out the one of Jesus and mary holding on to them reverently? So can you tell us what that image look like if it is the one separated by your prophet!!!

he will tell you about the islamic monotheism as the only true religion Allah/God will accept on that day.
he will also (that is if some of you christians are still alive) let u know that he is not GOD, SON OF GOD SEMI-GOD, GOD RE-INCARNATE ETC.
he will also let u know that he didnt order you to be worshipping him and giving all the attributes to him that are supposed to be given to God.
don't expect the crucified or tied to a stake jesus.
also don't expect to see Jesus that died and caried you sin away as put by Paul et al in the bible.

So where are you getting your information from? Can you please enlightene us? Is it from the Qu'ran compliled by Abu bakr or the one compiled by Uthman. Better still, could it be the versions that Uthman gathered together and burned because they differ significantly from the ones he had? Please tell us which one was really from Mohammed that you plan to quote here to support your ignrant position.

If you want to know what Jesus will say, perhaps you need to read what those who heard Him witnessed that He said:
Revelation 22: 12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." 17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

So what sayest thou again babs787?

@nilla,

But the fact still remains that he illegaly invaded Iraq and Iraq is worse off than it was before.

Can you please prove what laws that Bush illegally violated in toppling Saddam? You keep giving us your biased opinions that can not be backed by any law, international or otherwise. Easyy has shown over and over again that there is absolutely no basis to have Bush tried in a court of law, but you keep spewing out your hatred in uninformed verbiage.

Good thing there is a gradual change in the foreign policy of the US, maybe better times are ahead. The US needs to get its acts together and attempt (even if it is difficult to do so) to be fair, objective and stop fighting unnecessary wars and wasting innocent lives.

You are deceived to think that the majority of the world will love the U.S. once she dances to what they perceive as justice and fairplay. How much bending over backwards will the U.S. have to do before the likes of Osama and Mohamed Attah declare peace? What did George Bush do pre-911 that brought about that disaster? At least, majority now want us to believe that Bush is what is wrong with America, and by extentsion the rest of the world.

There is an ideology out there fueled by faith in the apocalyptic prophecies of Islam which is the major cause of what is going on in the world today. Granted, the U.S. does go overboard sometimes. But in the words of Malcolm X, "You can't put me on a burning stove and be upset by what I say" (paraphrase). That is the positiion of the U.S. right now. The U.S was put on a burning stove on 911 and the world expect to be at rest?! That is ridiculous. As long as there remains a credible threat to the U.S on the scale of 911 we will continue to witness these events either during or post Bush Administration.

You said: "However, the statements goes to show that the government of the day don't just lose power because it is fashionable to do so but because the voters wanted change and could only do so through the ballot boxes."

How does that compare with: "One of the greatest mid-term election disasters (not noted by Krauthammer) occurred in Dwight Eisenhower’s 6th year, 1958. At a time when Eisenhower was personally quite popular, the Democrats added nearly 50 members in the House, and another 16 in the Senate, building upon their already commanding majorities in both chambers."

As to the historicity of loosing power in the 6th year, here is some information: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/02/AR2006110201597.html

Now in response to the article, a critic, Christopher Preble wrote: Krauthammer’s argument is based on his reading of the history of mid-year elections. He noted that the anticipated “anti-Republican wave” — a net pick up of perhaps 20-25 House seats, and 4-6 Senate seats, by the Democrats — is relatively modest by historical standards. Reagan lost more in the 6th year of his presidency; so too FDR. One of the greatest mid-term election disasters (not noted by Krauthammer) occurred in Dwight Eisenhower’s 6th year, 1958. At a time when Eisenhower was personally quite popular, the Democrats added nearly 50 members in the House, and another 16 in the Senate, building upon their already commanding majorities in both chambers. See http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/index.php?cat=12

I'll respond to other issues as we go.

Bush may not be tried based on all the reasons stated by you but that does not exclude the opinions stated by others who think that he should be tried for ordering the illegal invasion that has brought complete chaos and carnage in Iraq and more importantly has set the stage for increase in the hatred and grooming of terrorists.

I believe it takes a breaking of a law to consider an action illegal.  We are waiting to find out from you all what laws George W. Bush trangressed. 

Public opinion, whether favorable or not does not hold up in a court of law.  Public opinion can only make a difference in an election.  From what I know, George Bush won his last election.  I know some will try to link up public opinion about the war to the last congressional election (which to some extent is legit), but a careful look at U.s history shows that americans generally vote off the ruling party in the 6th year of its government.  This case was not an exception.

What ordinary Iraqis say is more important to what politicians say.  I live in Nigeria today and the average politician (those not in the opposition, assuming we have any) will readily tell you that Nigeria is doing well and that majority of Nigerians are happy about the state of affairs even though in reality it is a wrong statement.

Did I mention that one of the symptoms of BDS is hypocrisy?  In defending their indefensible position to prosecute George Bush, they have now put forth the same argument I tendered in an earlier discussion which they vehemently opposed.  

I said the following: "I have not provided you with any contradictions.  A Senator's stand is not necessarily that of his constituency."

To which the ignorant hypocrite reacted:

Democracy at work here, I hope Bush respects the will of the senate as they respresent the Americans.

Please go and preach to the Shites and their Sunni counterparts who are the source of the carnage. Is it Bush that has ordered and equipped the militias to exterminate each other? That statement sure smells of the now famous BDS.

You guys are cracking me up real hard here. I just can't stop laughing.

@Mukina2,

It's your choice to interprete our sceptism of your religion as hatred for it. But it just doesn't make sense, nor is it spiritually logical to have someone regard himself as the "seal of the prophets" when his message is diametrically opposed to the messages of the true Prophets that came before Him. besides, Jesus said on the cross that "It is finished" so I really don't know what message or addition to the work of salvation that Mohammed came to do.

So the fact that you regard Mohammed as the seal of the Prophets now means people can go on mad rampage at the mere ridiculing of Mohammed? Was he also a victim of inferiority complex such that every opposition to him must be met by violence? Jesus is being mocked everyday, and even in so-called christian countries but no one is spitting out fire and brimstone. Why the militant tendencies of the adherents of Islam?

I know we are derailing the thread a litlle bit, but I can assure you that if you say any thing about Mary, Jesus or the Pope, Christians would rather pray for you than declare a fatwah for your head like Khomeni and co did for the guy who wrote the book "Satanic verses".

But the fact still remains tha the only thing that drives and keeps Islam alive is blind fanatism fueled by outright ignorance. Now that is my opinion.

@Mukina2,

Of course I am being sarcastic. Atimes, it serves as a good way of revealing a very obvious loop-hole in a statement disguised as universal truth. How does wearing a beard show humility? You are sinking yourself deeper in quick-sand. Like someone advised, you might be better off saying you have no clue rather than try to defend the indefensible. In any case, you are yet to answer my question.

Agreed that the Cartoonist were actually mocking the Prophet. However, Islam expressly forbids the depiction of Mohammed in any form of painting or art and that is a clear contradiction to those who feel like they have to look like him as much as possible. In both cases, the subject is only drawing attention to Mohammed. And why are Muslims so irked whenver Mohammed is ridiculed? Why don't they do the same if Jesus, Abraham or any of the other real Prophets that the Qu'ran also acknowledges? Aren't they turning Mohammed into a god?

So tell me, do you think Aisha also wore that veil to the battle field, or was there an exception to that?

Source : Iraq Centre for Strategic Studies

Is there an Organisation called Iraq Center for Strategic Studies?

@Mukina2,

I was just wondering if muslim men do have an advantage over the women in terms of pleasing Allah since they are the only ones endowed with the natural abilities to grow beards (save for some tribes in naija where the women can compete with men over growing beards ).

Also, to what extent is this imitation acceptable. Do our African muslim brothers have to bleach their skins like micheal jackson to look like Mohammed? And why is there an apparent contradiction where the prophet can't be drawn by cartoonist, which in my opinion creates pictures that your men can look at and imitate to become better Mohammedians? Can you explain these contradictions or would you just let it go?

And are the women also encouraged to be and look more like Aisha? Will they go to war to fight and kill like her too?

why do they wear other colors besides black when they emigrate to the USA and Europe.

The colour scheme only goes to show that there must be a suspension of the brain when the matter is their faith. These folks mostly live in arid deserts with temperatures up to high heavens, yet they have to wear black that absorbs and retains more heat than any other colour. Don't tell me these women will not pick other colours if they could choose.

@Mukina,

No one is hating on you or any muslims for that matter.  Sometimes, the truth has to be told in a very indirect way to catch the attention of those deceived by lies.  Besides, confrontation is not hatred.  Jesus was a very confrontational personality in His days on earth, but He was and is still the epitome of Love. 

A lot of time on this forum, muslims have tried to tell us that Islam is a religion of logic.  Well, prove it to us is all we are asking.

@Dru,

You just keep contradicting yourself trying to hold up a quick sinking foundation.  You have not told us when that scripture was fulfilled, or if it is yet to be fulfilled.

What you think will happen to the nations does not matter at all.  The Bible is clear that a nation (not only African), that does not come up to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacle (a Judaism ritual) will not have rain in their land.  It is left to you to permutate and speculate and crashland, but you will not take me on that journey with you.  I don't blame you too much anyway, you have said that is what some people made you to understand.  So what do you understand of your own self?

The Bible testifies to the fact that God recognises only 3 groups of people on the earth: the Jews, the nations and the Church.  I have told you before that the end-time events revolve around the Jews and not the Church.  But your problem lies in the "replacement theology" where you have replaced the Jew with the Church.  Like Jesus said, we need to watch out for the Olive Tree (the Jewish nation) and all other trees (other nations) in understanding the end-time event.

@4Play,

I feel you my brother. The Bush Derangement Syndrome is a chronic disease that has spread like wildfire all over the place. The symptoms include hypocrisy, outright lies, blindness to obvious facts etc. I only hope it is not an incurable disease though every symptom is pointing in that direction.

@ThiefofHearts,

you could easily ask a jewish man the same and they will give you mukina's answer. look up pics of Hasidic Jews.

The Jews indeed wear long beards but there are bible reasons for that. This I can go into in-depth if required. Basically, beards like other Old Testament rituals serve as a shadow of some realities. They are not an end in themselves but a pointer to an end.

@Dru,

This is obviously a millenial kingdom scripture. The only way you will be saved during the tribulation is through martyrdom. Calling on the name of the Lord then will not work.

@Easyy,

I am not responsible for the statement you have termed "false claim" that you have now asked me to defend.

This thread is about Bush's illegal action and masacre of Iraqis. We can't discuss every item on the same thread and there's no need to point out what someone else has done wrong when you're defending your own wrong doing.

Can you please show us and tell us how many car bombings and suicide attacks that Bush is sanctioning in Iraq? Bush is not responsible for the massacre. The Iraqis are!!! Trying to put the blame on Bush is totally unjustified when we realise that the kurds and the Christians in Iraq are not involved in the ethnic/religious cleansing going on in that Country. The two culprits are the Shia and the Sunnis whose enmity and universal hostility towards each other began during the life time of Mohammed.

So now that Bush is waiting for the UN to give the go-ahead to go into Sudan, would you say the thousands of lives that are being lost is worth the wait? I personally feel he should have gone into that country despite the lack of mandate. Each life saved will be worth whatever names you guys will call him.

Is it not the same elusive UN mandate that is ensuring that the genocide in Sudan continues? So will you accuse the U.S of illegality if inspite of no UN mandate they go into Sudan and stop the genocide?

Since no one has got the guts to do the right thing, they will all hide behind the lack of a UN mandate to excuse their irresponsible inaction in the face of apparent evil.

I am sure that Bush would have gone into Sudan by now to checkmate the genocide if not that he is weary of the United Nothing Nations. The majority want to be politically correct never minding the many lives that have been destroyed by their inaction. What a world.

@Wuumine,

some say purgatory. i think that is where you are given a second chance to right your wrongs abi?

So of what good is the blood of Jesus if you have the ability to go right your wrong by yourself?

@Mukina,

Since you are to follow the example of the Prophet into-to, I guess we should keep our 8 to 13 year old daughters and sisters away from you. Who knows, you might be inclined to go the Mohammed way. And how many wives do you plan to marry? How many people will you be willing to kill in the name of your religion. Please give us answers to these.