₦airaland Forum

Just an interesting post: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/8/9/93736.shtml?s=al

Yep, it'll take you 3 hours from Abuja to Jos, but I am not quite sure it is as safe as you are made to believe. As at 2 years ago that I was last on that road, there were just too many check-points and police prescence, but that could have changed now.

With regards to the hotels, there is one I particularly like but can't remember the name. The concept is really nice and it has a lot of white folks as guests. The hotel building is actually made up of container cabins. Gives you the feeling of being in a safari somewhere. I think it is the only hotel with that theme in that region so you should be able to find it with some little search and inquiries.

abi now them just dey lie for us say election go shele for 2k7, out of 150 million nigerians, only a lil' more that 20 people's vote counts, and the votes are casted on a round table, sumwhere, long before the 'figure-head' 2k7 election date!

Your statement would have been funny if not that it is such a sickening thought. So are we just gonna sidon look while these few continue their diabolical hegemony? Men of integrity should stand up and make changes, and the time for that is now.

@bajoule,

sorry brother but the Arabs are not ignorant people. In fact if they are so ignorant why do they own 25% of the United States.

Can you please enlighten us. Where gettest thou this statistics? Please tell us exactly what the Arabs own in the U.S., and what percentage of it is owned by them. I am hearing this for the very first time.

@dearzi,

Being a sceptic of an idea is alright, but being a sceptic of a statement made by a person is implying the person is lying. I hope you will try to make that dinstiction subsequently.

Anyone can use the scripture as they see it, but we are instructed to rightly divide the Word, and for your references to be considered by me, it must have been rightly divided, or else, you are just giving me your opinion. In these days where many arrogate to themselves divine honors by calling themselves prophets, teachers etc, everyone must be able and trained to read and understand the scriptures by themselves. The alternative is to have someone push their lop-sided theology down your throat and keep you wallowing in dillusion.

Right now, I do not even think I should reply some of your posts as the scriptures you based your arguments on are totally irrelevant to the points you made. However, I think a few of them needs to be addressed.

I'm not saying a righteous man shouldn't go for office, but if he's not going to waver in his faith--then that's fine.

So how do you pre-determine who will not waiver in his faith? And tell me, don't we all waiver and compromise our faith on a daily basis irrespective of our role in the society? Strength of character is required of us all as Christians, and that character if well developed, will hold up whether you find yourself in politics or in banking.

I'm of the opinion that if God wants to raise a politician, He's more than capable of doing just that! He knows that righteousness exalts a nation, and we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus--we are the ones that exalt the nation, we are the ones who change things in the arena of the spirit.

As to the question of who can run for office, there's no one in my bible that i saw (maybe i've not seen it yet) who ran for office! or who rigged an election! they were elected by God.[/

It is interesting how we often spiritualise things and fail to understand that for every spiritual action, their must be a corresponding physical action to cause that which has being effected in the spirit to manifest in the flesh. While indeed God can put his man in office, how do you expect Him to do that in a democratic setting? As we all agree that it is the handiwork of God for Obasanjo to have become our President right from Prison, do you think he would have ascended into that office without running and campaigning for that position? If you are going to operate in a political office governed by the constitution, then you must follow the rules of that constitution and believe God to bring His influence to bear on the outcome. Even ministerial nominees are still subject to the vote within the legislature to be appointed to serve.
God is a God of order, and just has He commanded us to be subject to the laws of our land, He is also bound by the same laws. He leads by example you know.

Acts 6: 3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. 4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. 5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: 6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
The above scripture is just to show you how God uses democracy to get His will done. The people chose those they wanted to adminster over them, and notice that the qualification required was wisdom and being filled with the Holy Spirit. God left the people to use their discernment to pick the individuals of their choice and as the book of Proverbs 16:33 says: The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD. In this way, God has His man in charge without violating the free will of the people.

Good point Bobbyaf.

No pains, no gains Nigerians. The Government action is laudable and I wish they will deal with every sector of the economy that way. I think those who may have objected to the Governement's decision here never read through the article but only reacted based on the headline. Carry go Obasanjo.

Bobbyaf,

I think it will be good for you if you can imbibe a teacheable spirit. For obvious reasons, I think this is lacking in you. Even when the obvious is stated, you still hold to your pre-existing notions and keep "slaughtering" the scriptures like no man's business.

You have lumped events together, lumped characters together, and lumped timing together. This has made it difficult for me to even begin to correct you. But with the way you have responded so far, I am berginning to think that it might be a waste of time trying to prove the scriptures to you line upon line. You have your mind made up, and as far as I'm concerned, as long as you are saved, you are still better off, and the rest, you will understand as time goes by.

Our discussions here have made me to do some more studies of end-time events, though I have my persuasions already. I have learned from everyone's contributions and I hope we can continue to be scholarly and humble enough to admit when we miss it.

All these lies and weapons-of-mass-deception is what has made Isreal to take the actions it is now taking. Isreal is aware that beyond her immediate borders are other countries who really dont care a s**t about them. So they have taken the sole action that will most preserve their lives as far as they are concerned. Isreal is like a cornered and wounded dog, it is now fighting back and will not stop until that ill feeling of immediate threat to her existence is lifted.

Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible quite alright.  He is said to be acursed according to Galatians 1:6-9  6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Muhammad came to preach another Gospel claiming an Angel spoke to him.  That sounds like what we have in Galatians here doesn't it?

For those claiming that Muhammad is the Holy Spirit, I have just two questions or observations.  Wouldn't you say that Muhammad showed up a little too late and at a different location from what Jesus said?  Jesus clearly told His disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit, and I believe all those Disciples were already "asleep" and in heaven at the time this Bedoiun Prophet showed up. 

The Muslim's endless effort to validate their false religion with the truth of God's Word (the Bible) will never end.  They are aware that the Koran cannot stand by itself and needs the Bible for it's authenticity.  The problem is that the Bible will never authenticate that which is false.  So, they keep wallowing in their self-delusion and try to tell us they understand the Bible much more than we do.

I am waiting for you guys to continue displaying your ignorance here as I serve you back with the truth.

@dearzi,

because i believe this thread was started because of Chris Okotie and his beed to run for office

I will appreciate if you do not second-guess my intentions.  If I choose not to believe the best of you, I could accuse you of calling me dubious and conceited, but I wont go that route.   It seems to me you have a problem with accepting things that people say.  Could it be that you place that much little value on words as you seem to believe others do?  How would you like me to relate with you with sceptism, believing you mean something else when you are telling me another?   Maybe you do not understand that you are passing such a message across, but that is exactly what I am getting from your contribution.  If you care to read my intro, I gave the reason why I started the thread and the person involved never contributed to the Chris Okotie discussion, and he has been here to contribute his 2 cents.  So, while I can't help your reviling of that Man of God, I can at least defend my stancce which I believe is biblically based, and this I shall do in parts.

To start, I think you should define for us, what the Bible means by "civilian affairs". If I understand what you are driving at, you seem to equate "civilian afairs" to politics, or better still democracy. Please correct me if I'm wrong. While you are on that quest, please try and tell us also how 1 John 2:15-16 which you quoted relates to politics. What is the "world" as described within that scripture? And if I may throw this in, why does the Bible say for God so loved the world, and yet we are not to love the world? Doesn't that make you think that we need to balance scripture with scripture before we make conclusions?

I never insinuated that Jesus encouraged mixing church and politics together. Do you understand what I wrote at all? If anything, I tried to bring a balance to that quote by saying that the general context probably suggests that Jesus could as well be refering only to financial matters.

So now, Jesus no longer issues "commands' but only suggestions!!! Your lame effort to attach your meaning to that verse is evidenced by saying Jesus was talking about order. If that is so, why would he mention Ceasar ahead of God? So are we to give first to Ceasar before we think about God? You need to think deeper about the implications of your statements before you make them.

I hope to respond to your other posts subsequently, but in the mean time, please try and use the scriptures "scripturally". I have told you this several times but it seems your emotions and prejudice just takes the better of you.

And by the way, you know I love you, so be careful with me when responding as i can't handle kayuta rockets like Isreal is doing with Hezbollah.

@Brown-eyes I love that name),

That is a wrong use of that scripture in Revelation 2:9. And for what you have to say about the Khazars, here is what the Wikipedia has to say about them:

The Khazars (Heb. sing. "Kuzari" כוזרי plur. "Kuzarim" כוזרים; Arab. خزر; Turk. sing. "Hazar" plur. Hazarlar; Greek Χαζάροι; Russ. Хазары; Tat. sing Xäzär plur. Xäzärlär; Crimean Tatar: sing. Hazar, plur. Hazarlar Persian خزر; Latin "Gazari" or "Cosri" were a semi-nomadic Turkic people from Central Asia, many of whom converted to Judaism. The name 'Khazar' seems to be tied to a Turkic verb form meaning "wandering" ('gezer' in modern Turkish). In the 7th century CE they founded an independent Khaganate in the Northern Caucasus along the Caspian Sea, where over time Judaism became the state religion. At their height, they and their tributaries controlled much of what is today southern Russia, western Kazakhstan, eastern Ukraine, large portions of the Caucasus (including Dagestan, Azerbaijan, and Georgia), and the Crimea.

The Khazars were important allies of the Byzantine Empire against the Sassanid empire, and were a major regional power at their height. They fought a series of successful wars against the Arab Caliphates, probably preventing an Arab invasion of Eastern Europe. By the end of the tenth century, their power was broken by the Kievan Rus, and the Khazars largely disappeared from history. The theoretical Khazar contribution to the bloodline of modern Ashkenazi Jews proposed by some historians is politically sensitive. Current genetic studies show that Jewish Y-Chromosome DNA seems to have originated in Middle Eastern populations, whereas studies which take into account Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) show no relation to middle eastern ethnic groups. [1] So although Khazars might have been absorbed into the Jewish population it is unlikely that they formed a large percentage of the ancestors of modern Ashkenazim.

niterider,

The geography of the area makes it a security risk for Isreal if occupied by enemy forces.  Besides, isn't this supposed to belong to Syria?  So what has hezbollah got to do with this?  Isreal strategically took that land during the six day war, and from all indication, Isreal is not tapping the resources of the land, but just keeping it for their safety.

Don't take my response to mean I support that action, it is just that I am looking at the whole scenario from the isreali point of view who can't afford to sleep at night with both eyes closed because of the enemies around.

Peace remains a desired outcome, but some of you talk as if all it takes is to grab hezbollah millitants by their hands and sing a rousing rendition of "We are the World" or "Heal the World".

lol. You fit kill person. man, I'm on the floor holding my ribs in fear that they might crack. lol,

I am convinced the only reason why Isreal keeps any part of the disputed lands is because of their security.  How long ago did Isreal withdraw from the Gaza Strip only to be shelled by the palestinian militants from that area.  They created walls along their borders to prevent these crazy people from coming in and killing them, yet these terrorists still look for other ways to come in and wreck havoc.

Their goal now is very reasonable to me.  Create a buffer zone where an International Peace keeping force will occupy in order to prevent this sort of war happening again.  This is indeed a time of great conflict and opportunity fro isreal.  They will be crazy not to take it.

@Medube,

First, i think you really need to watch your lnguage.  If others respond to you the way you have responded, then we might have another conflagration here on nairaland.  You can make your points withouth throwing sly invectives.  I know you are passionate about your convictions, but so do others and you have no way of convincing us that it is your view that is superior.

Is it the job of the western nations to care for us in the 3rd world?  Of course, they will report what happens to them and has more direct bearing on their welfare than for others.  We are here killing our own like the recent slaying of Engineer Funsho Williams, and will we expect the U.S to come fish out the killers for us?  They do as much as they can, and while they may not be saints, we are in no way better than they are.  At least they care for their own people which is more than I can say of ourselves.

No one encourages or supports the killing of the innocent or even the guilty for that matter, but to every action there is a reaction.  For Lebanon to allow Hezbollah to take such root in their midst and allowed to operate freely, they are bound to suffer the consequences.  We see pictures of the Lebanese dead on the pages of the newpapers, what about the Isreali dead?  Are those corpses less valuable because they didn't make it to the front page of Al Jazeerah or other Arab newspapers and TV networks?  Why don't they show the damage caused in Isreal as well.

Hezbollah has sown the wind, and it is only fair that they reap the whirlwind.  I have absolutely no sympathy for Hezbollah, but I do feel for the innocent Lebanese, Christain or Muslim does not matter.  Hezbolah started this on their own terms, and it is only fair that Isreal ends it in their own terms.

medube,

Perhaps you will start by justifying the acts of those terrorists that massacred 3,000 people on 911. Hezbollah, if given the chance will do same and worse. And while going about your justification, please do not forget to tell us the just reason why Hezbollah and their backers have for planning to anihilate Isreal.

1 Thessalonians: 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I think the misunderstanding comes in when we muddle up several events together.  This scripture clearly talks about the rapture, and if you notice Jesus is not even going to step on the earth at this coming.  He is going to be in the air where the dead in christ will rise forst to meet Him, then the rest of the Christians who are alive will join them up there. 

His coming where the whole world shall see Him as mentioned in the Book of Acts is different from the one here in Thessalonians.  If we can distinguish between both events, then we will begin to dispel some of the confusion that seems prevalent.

That is just to show you how much the people have been brain-washed by their religion. How can the action of a guerila group who undermines a legitimate government be received with such fervency, especially when it only brings about death and destruction to the populace? This beats my imagination.

If it was in the West, it is the populace that would have disarmed Hezbollah themselves. Hezbollah has only thrived on ignorance and no wonder they encourage the obvious backwardness that this war will bring about for the Lebanese.

@Nuru,

For us human beings, out of His Mercy He has sent down His Books throughout the generations in different forms and formats and in different languages. So that no one will have any excuse of not hearing the message.

Based on your own words, Allah indeed sent down various books throughout the generations.  From my understanding, Muslims regard the Torah and the Gospels as these books.   From what I've learnt also, you all are encouraged not to believe these books because according to your double-minded prophet, they have been corrupted.

Now tell me how that can be possible when the same prophet proclaims that Allah's words can never be changed?  Want references?  Check out the following from your Qu'ran:
[b]006.115
YUSUFALI: The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.
PICKTHAL: Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
SHAKIR: And the word of your Lord has been accomplished truly and justly; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

006.034
YUSUFALI: Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers.
PICKTHAL: Messengers indeed have been denied before thee, and they were patient under the denial and the persecution till Our succour reached them. There is none to alter the decisions of Allah. Already there hath reached thee (somewhat) of the tidings of the messengers (We sent before).
SHAKIR: And certainly messengers before you were rejected, but they were patient on being rejected and persecuted until Our help came to them; and there is none to change the words of Allah, and certainly there has come to you some information about the messengers.

010.064
YUSUFALI: For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity.
PICKTHAL: Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter - There is no changing the Words of Allah - that is the Supreme Triumph.
SHAKIR: They shall have good news in this world's life and in the hereafter; there is no changing the words of Allah; that is the mighty achievement.[/b]

Can you reconcile these anomalies?

What is it with an apple? The Bible said it was a fruit, and I wonder where the issue of an apple came to be generally accepted.

Bobbyaf, Dru,

You two have systematically dodged the issues I raised in my response. As Bobbyaf mentioned, Jesus is never the one to shy away from disapproving what his disiples questioned and intended when there is the need for it. So why didn't He do the same in this case? If they had been wrong, He would have told them plainly. The only thing He said was the timing sholdn't be an issue with them. They should just wait for the Holy Spirit to usher in the new dispensation of the church.

And Bobbyaf, you just mix so many things up. No where was I insinuating that the Kingdom and the temple were the same. So I wonder how you came about that conclusion.

As for Dru, the Disciple's questions were based on the information revealed to them from the scriptures. So I really don't understand why you think it is irrelevant. If Jesus doesn't want us to have an idea of timing, why would we have so many hints from the scriptures? The exact time and hour is what the Disciples wanted to know and I'm sure Jesus would not tell them more than what has been revealed already.

I am still waiting for you to provide adequate responses to my submisions especially as related to the Jews and the en-times as well as the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation.

@Giorgio,

I disagree that the Isreali aims have been defeated. This war and its repercusssions are not over. Far from it. Isreal will not rest, and rightly so, until something is done either by Isreal or the international community about Hezbollah. As Bush has said, though this may be a time of great conflict, it also presents a huge opportunity to settle the problems in the Mid-East once and for all.

Hezbollah must be disarmed by every means necessary if there will be lasting peace between both neighbours. It is going to be now or never. A hasty ceasefire will only postpone the evil day and I hope one or the other (Hezbollah or Isreal, prefereably hezbollah) is finally crippled militarily so we can all heave a sign of relief.

Ehm, Mr/Miss/Mrs Cactus,

Don't you think your contribution should have been better served on another thread or topic? Obviously, the topic at hand is meant for those who have gone beyond the speculations and 'what ifs' that characterises your post. I don't mean to be rude, but I think if you have nothing to contribute to this topic, just read and "carry go" to numerous other topics that you will be able to contribute to on nairaland. Just a piece of advice.

Drusilla,

Can you please back your conclusions with some hard facts.  When did each of those events begin and when did each one end, or will end as the case may be?  What events mark the beginning of each, and what event will clearly show the end of each? 

Trying to push your view down our collective throats will not cut it at all.  You may even be right, but please let's have some proofs.

And by the way, couldn't we have dealt with this on the other similar topics you and Bobbaf have posted? I think this multiplicity of posts will not help us address this issue very well. I personally don't fancy repeating myself which is what this multiplicity will bring about. Some of my responses on the earlier threads do find relevance here, and I don't think I will like to post the same thing here again. If you can, let's try and merge both topics together.

Anyway, does any one else agree or is it just me?

While I am in support of Pat Utomi, I fear he may not have the 'liver' to deal with those corrupt people who are already entrenched in our system.

@TV01, 
Words of wisdom.  Well appreciated!

@Bobbyaf,

In every dispensation there are only two sets of people as far as God is concerned. Those who hear the salvation message and respond to it, and those who don't. God doesn't care about who is who in the plan of salvation. Listen to what Jesus said about the gospel and who it is intended to reach.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

I am amused by your assertion about the kinds of people on the earth when the Bible clearly says otherwise.  See 1Corinthians 10:32 "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:"    The scripture you quoted above, I insist, is directed at the Jews who will be God's witness to the nations then when the church must have left thescene.  But I jump a little, let me back track.

I will begin my submission by quoting first from the Book of Acts, chapter 1 and verse 6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?   From the disciples' question, you get the understanding that they were expecting a literal manifestation of God's Kingdom on earth with the Jews as His client nation.  Jesus did not tell them they were wrong for expecting the kingdom, but He made them realise that there is a timing to it.

You see, the early church were so convinced of this earthly kingdom of Jews that they will not even preach unto the Gentiles.  God's revelation to Peter changed that, and Paul was the one who explained to them what was going on.  If you go through Paul's letter to the Romans , he made it abundantly clear that God will still establish that kingdom but only after the fullness of the Gentiles have come in. 

A study of the book of Daniel 9 (chapter 9 particulalrly) reveals that from the time that the temple in Jerusalem was to be rebuilt to the time of the end will be 70 weeks.  Within these 70 weeks, temple sacrifices must continue and Isreal will still keep their covenant with God.  Christ (and by implication, the church) came into the picture after 69 weeks, which means there is still one more week left for the Jewish covenant and sacrifices.  This is one of the mysteries that Peter mentioned that the Prophets of old were diligently searching but not knowing the details of God's plan.  The only person who had the information was Paul, who made it known that God had inserted a new dispensation of the church between the time alloted to the Jews.  This is the reason why the rapture must take place, so that the last 7 years of the Jews might be fulfilled.  Remember that Paul mentioned that ones the fullness of the Gentiles have come in, then all Isreal will be saved in keeping with God's covenant and election of them.

May I also bring to your attention the fact that the ones refered to as the servants of God during the tribulation period are actually the Jews.  Revelation 7 talks about God sealing 144,000 of them in anticipation of the great tribulations that was coming upon the earth.  Are you going to tell me these 144,000 refer to the church?  We have imbibed the doctrine of substitution in the church where we claim God has no dealings with the Jews anymore and that the Church has replaced the Jews as God's people.  That is so far from the truth.  The end-time actually revolves around them.

Anyway, I pray we all get more enlightement as we discuss this issue and I wait for your response with great anticiapation.

Men, I am irritated to the point of vomitting. Islam: what a religion!!!!

Can you check out this BBC report about sharia in Iran: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/5217424.stm

I am more particular about the following statement made in the report. "However, the age of sexual consent for girls under Sharia law is nine, and furthermore, rape is very hard to prove in an Iranian court." Can any muslim plese confirm or refute this allegation. I am inclined to think Mohammed's immoral and carnal knowledge of Aisha is what kept the standard this low. Please prove me wrong.

@carmelily and @davidlylan,

You guys should knock it off. If you two can't maintain peace with each other over the net, how dare you blame either the palestines or jews for seemingly acts of self-defence they are both claiming?

Let's move on to the isues without attacking each other. Abeg una.

i can understand why!

Over to you Davidylan.

I was in Nigeria a few weeks ago, and to my surprise, Ekiti State has been developed much better than I last saw it 2 years ago. Lots of new road construction, dualisation of existing roads with street lights and stand-by generators to power the lights etc.

I really don't see any Governor that has performed as well as this young man, and I am waiting for the full reports of the investigation into these allegations.