₦airaland Forum

@albatross,

albatros:
#2. The claim has been made that Muhammad performed miracles. Guess what? Most muslims today simply don't buy into that for the simple reason that none of his were recorded in 'Allah's book - the Qur'an!!'

i don't know which muslims u've been talking to,but our books are the Quran(the word of God) and the hadith(the sayings and deeds of the prophet).Any muslim that says he doesn't beleive in the hadith is wrong.The only issue with hadiths is that some mischeif makers try to fabricate stories which is why there's a science of hadith and those that have been fabricated are exposed.

I didn't make reference to the Hadith, as you can see in my post that you quoted.

Meanwhile, after all "the science of the hadith", which Muslim has come out to establish any verse of the Qur'an showing that Muhammad indeed performed a miracle? If you care to follow the discussion where this issue has been nailed to its coffin, please see the link:

              https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-48380.128.html#msg1123113

albatros:
Besides,the splitting of the moon that was performed by the prophet when the pagans told him if he did that,they would beleive is documented in the Quran!

Can you please tell me why that is NOT in the Qur'an?? Is that not part of the same Hadith you allege of mischief??

albatros:
#3. The rascal joke of Human Embryology in Islam has been debunked - and solidly so!! Guess what?? Scholars in Islamic science no longer pay attention to the show man naik Zakir!!

Great! u're now so knowledgeable,u know who is and who is not an islamic scholar.U may want to mention them if u know them.

Please give me a few names that make you happy; and then I'll gladly show you their rascal adventures and what they DON'T want people like you to know!! Please just a few is all I ask!

albatros:
#4. the claim has been made by the same set of apologists that the Torah of the Qur'an is LOST!! Guess what?? That idea is fast losing popularity among reasonable Muslims who don't stoop so low to make that al-taqiyya claim. In the Hadith, Muhammad handled confessed that he believed in the Torah that the Jews used - the very same one that the Jews still have!!

You may want to take this topic to your fellow christians because even you folks are still trying to decide whether or not your book is accurate.

Please stop sobbing. Just give me the Torah and Injil of the Qur'an; and save the noise for the busy streets of Idumota.

albatros:
You may go through the cnn archives to get details on their documentary on the errors found in the bible.Don't even try to bring the up topic of authenticity of the bible.even an unborn child know the bible has been tampered with and has a zillion errors!

Thanks again. It was the same zillions of errors that Allah claimed in the Qur'an that he has sent down!

albatros:
Now my question:
(1)Can someone tell me why we have christians in naija when Jesus Himself said he was sent to the lost sheep of isreal and that the message would not have gone round by the time he comes back.

Dealt with by davidylan above. Please refer.

albatros:
(2)God says in the Quran that Jesus didn't die.He was raised up and it was made to appear to his persecutors that they killed him.

If that claim holds any substance, could you please answer this simple question: WHO was the substitute that Muslims always claim was put in His place on the Cross?

albatros:
Interestingly,Hebrew 5:7 says Jesus prayed to God not to be killed and his prayer was answered.Where does that leave the whole crucification thing?

Heb. 5:7
"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared."

The Bible speaks of death in several ways: (a) when someone "sleeps" (John 11:11-14 >> "Lazarus sleepth. . .Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."; also speaks of the sinful spiritual state/condition of man (Eph. 2:5 -- "we were dead in sins"; etc.

When Jesus prayed in Heb. 5:7, it was in reference to the world of the dead. That the verse mentions that it was "in the days of His flesh" should make us understand that indeed His prayer was heard, as it is stated in Acts 2 --


"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. . . He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption" (verses 27 & 31).

That Heb. 5:7 does not mean that he was afraid to die is clear from at least these two verses:

Matt. 26:39  --  "And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

Joh 10:17-18
"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Jesus was not afraid of DEATH. He actually died and rose again - and the same book of Hebrews speaks of His death:


Heb. 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise
took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death,
that is, the devil;

Heb 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd
of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

Did you miss all these in the same Book of Hebrews before you hung your hopes on ch. 5:7??

@albatross,

albatros:
Finally,lets assume there's no unity dimension to it.the command is just there "face the east" I really don't know what the fuss is about.

"Face the EAST" is as much as facing the WEST for the other half of the Muslim population (not to mention those who have to face NORTH and SOUTH)!!!

albatros:
It's God's world,it's His rules.Many before us were given outrageous things to do.

Are we here dicussing "outrageous things" or what??

albatros:
Abraham was asked to kill his son!(i'm sure that didn't make sense to him),The mother of Moses was asked to put him in a basket and put him in the river(i'm a woman and i know that is really hard to swallow ).The point is faith is what drove them to obey.and faith is what drives us.

Is it faith that drives the jihadists to hope for 72 virgins for blowing up innocent souls?

If that came across as way too skewed, please forgive me - and count it as way too skewed to be discussing the issue of KILL-KILL-KILL in this thread. When we get there, we'll sit round a table and iron it out.

albatros:
@TellyB

It seems to be,(but i hope not) that u're one of those that God refers to in the Quran as those who will not beleive even if angels were to come down to give the message.

Thanks for the slobber; but angels sent by God do not come confusing us. If they ask me to go EAST and I go NORTH, is it the same thing we're talking about??

albatros:
And who am i to dispute.He created you and He knows your type.I can only pray that He softens your heart for u to c the truth.

I have been told by one of your apologists that Islam does not recognize the Biblical Jesus Christ. Can you please tell me whether or not he is correct or wrong??

albatros:
You ask a question and when u get the answer,you debunk it on the flimsy ground that the authority quoted is not reliable.

I have not debunked issues on "flimsy grounds". You could as well bring out the the fallacies of my "proofs, facts, evidences, pictures and maps" - and if you can prove them gravely mistaken, I'll promptly apologise and remove them. Thank you.

albatros:
i wonder who made u an authority on all subjects.

I wonder who made babs787 and your Muslim apologists on the Forum the authorities to demand anything of anyone; especially his usual dribbling around issues with "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST!" What's with all that?

albatros:
Guess u must have lived about 1000 years before Muhammad and known so much about embryology.

Was I wrong about Gale of Pergamum? Please show how. Thanks.

albatros:
And guess you would know more than Keith Moore who revised his book on embryology to include facts that he found in the Quran.

If Keith Moore was pretending that such scientific fields of Medicine and Biology were not known in Muhammad's day, it would be such a shame!!

albatros:
your claim that muslim traditions have been changed really is laughable.No body can change the laws of Allah.

Oh, I see. And who abrogated and cancelled verses in the Qur'an?? Answer me and throw my mouth in the bin on this one!!  

albatros:
Ever since man was created,Some have obeyed God and some have not.Does that take away the rules?you need to apply some logic here bro.

The Islamic logic has been nailed to the coffin. Period.

albatros:
#1. Muhammad prohibited the making of pictures, threatening that anyone making them will be punished with the severest punishment of Allah on judgement Day. Guess what?? Muslims today pay no attention to his threats; and most of the pictures I posted are from Muslim sites!!  

Ans: Pictures of animate objects are those that are disallowed.And even if some muslims take pictures of animate objects.Does their disobedience change the law?

First, I have said the types of pictures are of HUMAN BEINGS and ANIMALS - not trees and popcorn!!

Second, your dribbling is saying that "even if" people have disobeyed, it would not change the law. Good, and I'm happy for you. The next time you check you album, burn all your pictures and any newsprint, magazine, books etc that have pictures! Is it not true then that the law has not been changed??

@albatross,

Thank you for your rejoinder, and you're welcome to the Forum.

albatros:
I think the first thing is to clear this misconception about the word "Allah".Allah is the arabic word for God.Just the way God is Olorun in yoruba and God in english.The reason it is favoured by muslims is because it's unique.it cannot be attributed to other beings and it cannot be feminized.Other languages' words for God can be attributed to other things.For instance,Someone that believes that a stone is his God can pray to a stone and refer to it as "Olorun",God in english can also be feminized to become "godess".Allah is God(or God is God whatever!).He's the creator and sustainer of all that exists simple!

I think the issue of language names for "God" has been treated in other threads. The issue here is about Facing the East to Pray; and I would like to stick with that.

Besides, if it is only a matter of language at all, why is the word 'allah' unique; and others not unique?? It is convenient to refer to other people's object of worship as "stone" and call it "Olorun" - which is the usual Islamic thing to do. I would rather appreciate that if you don't have a good grasp of your subjects, please try keeping your persuasions to yourself. Those Yoruba people could as well refer to the Arabs who worship stone and call that by the arabic word for g-d. How does that make you feel??

albatros:
I can assure u that myself and an ss1 student would be at par as regards geography .,so i'm not going to dable into someone's east is another person's west!.Facing the east is about unification.I can get to any strange land and blend in with the local muslims at once.I get to worship my God exactly the way i worshipped Him at home.i don't feel uncomfortable because they are facing north or west.And,as quoted in previous posts,yes God is everywhere.He affirms that in the Quran and when you don't know where the east is,no problem,He says in the Quran,face anywhere when u're not sure.

Two issues immediately come to the fore here:

      (a) No one is asking whether or not Muslims feel comfortable wherever they turn to pray. However, the idea that East is West and West is East all are the same is just one of those issues that ridicule reason, scholarship, and honesty. How long are we going to be hearing these claims and going along with it - and at the end of the day, Muslims will stand up to tell us that their religion is "very scientific!" Pleaaase!!

      (b) The tenets of islam are not as brashly condescending as you want to sound here! If it really doesn't matter wherever one faces (whether in prayer or answering natures call) why the big deal that Muslims themselves make out of facing or not facing the direction of the EAST??

No, your ideas and answers here are gravely faulty.

albatros:
Sometimes,When God gives a command,there seems to be no logic to it because of our limited understanding as humans.

I can go along with that; and it doesn't have to be only in Islam or Christianity. This logic can also be found in other worldviews - and we should respect them.

albatros:
But,No body can deny the fact that muslims are the most united people on earth.Something as "illogical or trivial" as facing the same direction is what has given us our unity.

I have my doubts as to your claim here for unity. Islam has well over 70 different factions, deeply [b]DIS[/b]united over many issues - some of which if I tender, I might as well run the risk of being labelled a blasphemer!! So, your unity here is as much the opposite claim.

chatykrew:
@Telly B
Your questions are quite tot provoking and intriguing. take care lets encourage babs to answer this and then solutions will be found by him and lets help him STICK to this questions and answer them

Okay. Thanks for that. 

I actually offered him those questions to make him see (if he would at all) that the article he has often been recycling have no basis at all. If he cares to check the very same sources that he quoted, then he would see the difference. And that is the reason why I will not stoop to the level of name-calling and have decided to stick with the issues on the threads.

Cheers.

babs787:
a. Mathew 1 v 16: and[b] Jacob[/b] the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

b . Luke 3 v 23: Jesus when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli.

Matthew 1:16 -- "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

The Genealogy records in Matthew and Luke have their characteristic wordings. In Matthew, it is said that "Jacob BEGAT Joseph" (a direct siring); but in Luke 3:23, it is rather that Joseph was "the was the son of Heli" (Jewish reckoning according to marital connections). The difference is that Luke does not claim that Heli directly sired Joseph.

Jewish people are quite conversant with this style of recording their lineage as Luke did. Even in Matthew's Gospel, you will find the same style used in ch. 1:1 --

"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."

It does not claim that Abraham directly sired David; nor that David was the direct biological father of Jesus. The lineage are recorded according to specific emphasis.

In Matthew, the emphasis was about the lineage of the Kings; that is why you find there from the onset that Jesus Christ is called "the son of David". That is why Matthew often recorded people addressing Jesus Christ as "Son of David" (Matt. 12:23 & 15:22).

In Luke's Gospel, the emphasis is rather on Christ's Humanity. As such, Luke traces his genealogy beyond Abraham back to the very first man, Adam. As such, Joseph being the husband of Mary was recognized in Luke's Gospel on the basis of human relations; rather than back to the Kingship.

Please notice carefully as well that Joseph is called "thou son of David" as well in Matt. 1:20. Why?? Because in keeping with the principle of maintaining Jesus' Kingship as heir to the throne of David, Joseph's true links with the royal lineage. It s for this reason that Luke also recognizes that Joseph was of the House and Lineage of David:

Luke 2:4
And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the
city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David.

So, both Matthew and Luke knew the lineage of Joseph quite well; but their genealogy were recorded according to the emphasis, perspective and purposes from which they wrote.

babs787:
I donk know and I think you can provide me the answer. So what does it contain?

Which one did Muhammad use?

[quote author=I-man link=topic=54189.msg1125638#msg1125638 date=1179492142]You would think that studies conducted by think tanks and Universities are "scholarly".They must be credible to make the Economist.[/quote]It is true that some highly respected persons have published "scholarly" researches; only to be arrested and stripped of their accreditations when their works were found to be fraudulent - disgracefully fraudulent.

[quote author=I-man link=topic=54189.msg1125638#msg1125638 date=1179492142]Is it really difficult to believe that the average religious person has a longer marriage than the average non-religious person?[/quote]It is not difficult to believe that at all. But are we talking of "belief" or what's on ground as reality?

For me, I have seen the "average religious person" collapse under the burden of raising a family. I have also seen the same thing happen to non-religious people (which I define slightly differently than the average "atheist". The thing is that, there are a lot of people who have very strong, successful and happy homes and lives - and it doesn't have to be a question of being religious or not.

[quote author=I-man link=topic=54189.msg1125638#msg1125638 date=1179492142]I would think its obvious why that is the case.Whether they have "happier marriages",I have never seen anything in that regard[/quote]I have seen very happy marriages (you should see my parents - they still think they're kindergartens. . . after so long a time together!!   )

On the whole, I look forward to some of those demographic features that might have been applied in the studies being referred to.

Cheers.  

misright:
I learn from de best that's why i've choosen to be a member of nairaland. u knw what u don't knw.

True. And I've really benefitted from a lot of posts on the various threads as well. I was only a lil unsure what the thread was about.

Cheers.

Right. That is why I said that those "studies" are not scholarly. I'm a Christian; and I'm not trying to becloud the Christian testimony at all. But my concerns rather are that we endeavour to state things as they really are (even though some of those issues might be a bit embarrasing for us).

misright:
I believe in what i knw and what i knw is what the Bible teaches!

Great. Then what was the thread all about in the first place?

@babs787,

If you don't have answers, move on. The games of "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST" is for kids. Thanks.

You have your answers from the same Bible you have been quoting.

Can we now move on and forget the games, hmm?

@babs787,

Get a copy of the Torah, and you will see. If you don't get it, can you please state in simple terms what you understand by "TORAH"??

Okay. So that I don't misquote you, could you offer me the values of measurement you used to arrive at the "average" results?

babs787:
You are the one dribbling yourself.

Okay. Does that say anything about the topic?

babs787:
So thanks for that, what does it contain?

Get a copy.

babs787:
Dont you ever think that you are smart. What does the Torah contain, is it not about Moses and the Jews?

I wasn't "smart" - I simply quoted from the Qur'an to show that you were wrong! The Qur'an did not call them "stories" - rather, it calls them the BOOKS of Moses!! If you have anything against that, please quote the qur'an. Thanks.

[quote author=I-man link=topic=54189.msg1125530#msg1125530 date=1179489881]Statistically,religious people, from surveys in the US and the UK,have lower rates of divorce and claim to be happier.[/quote]I'm not so sure I can agree with that. I have some knowledge of statistics and demography; and sadly, the US and UK have very high figures of divorces - even among Christians.

The ratio for any kind of statistical measurement is too skewed, considering those who number among the various elements - Christians, atheists, Muslims, etc.

What we can argue for is that there certainly are very good Christian families. You will also find non-Christian people having good families as well. The question is a very dynamic one, and the argument can fall either way.

babs787:
Brother if you can deceive yourself, you can't deceive me. You can see the topic of the thread and my questions were in line with the topic. So you should answer my questions and stop avoiding it. I have answered yours and you should rebut it and answer my questions.

@babs787,

I'm quite used to people using your type of language; and at the end of the day, it only betrays the fact that they had nothing to offer. Okay, I'm deceiving myself. But even so, your ideas have been debunked and your fallacies exposed.

babs787:
Are you blaming babs? You shoudnt do that. You should have look into all threads before tendering your grievance. Babs responded based on what he met. If you think that babs has been deriding your faith, sorry for that but you should have carried out your research properly and you would have found out that christians pushed babs into doing same. The number of threads opened by christians against muslims outnumbered that of the latter likewise that of posts too. Just like you a reacting, you can't expect babs to fold his hands while some are abusing my faith. We can all live in peace respecting each others faith.

Sorry that I didn't go through ALL the threads; but did I need to do that? Really? You can't use that as an excuse for your recent "tit-for-tat" response to my posts; unless you're trying to force the idea that I actually went out to calumnize Muhammad (since you treat him as your god).

In another thread, when someone brought the idea that Muhammad was gay, I was one of the first to counter such - because I knew the hard facts on the ground, and waited to see if the poster could correct me that I was wrong about the assumption that he might have been referring to some material he saw on the web pretending to originate from Egypt.

I don't think this childish antics and beggarly reaction of "tit-for=tat" is fitting for grown ups. If you dn't want to answer questions sanely, what is the worry??

babs787:
Brother same as my above explanation. Count the number of threads opened by your folks with regards to that of muslims and count number of defamatory posts too. If you call what I have been doing deriding your faith, well, I apologise but will want you to know all am doing in which you called deriding your faith have so far been from your bible. Nobody is vexed here, you should really examine yourself before accusing others of same.

I don't remember accusing YOU or anyone else of anything - if I did, I think it should be fitting to go to those threads and address your vexations there. using this worn out excuse for why you reacted like a child does not speak well of you.

@chatykrew,

Yep, I must commend the brilliant mind that pilgrim.1's got!

Amen - we can live together. But you didn't come up to state how you "don't fancy" the tit-for-tat that Muslims have used in speaking of Christian issues.

I don't go out to deride anyone's religion; but when I post on any thread, it is because I know what I'm speaking about. If people (Muslims and Christians) are going to discuss, those who feel vexed at any issue should not stoop so low to play the "tit-for-tat" game. They can simply ignore threads that they've got nothing to say.

Cheers.

babs787:
Hope you are not trying to avoid my questions ? We muslims do not worship Jesus and do not regard him as God.Hope I have answered your question?

Nope, you haven't answered but circled round it. Here again:

May I ask Muslims who love Jesus Christ: is it true that when Christians refer to Jesus as God, they are worshipping a false god?

babs787:
And who is the father of Joseph?

What does the Qur'an say? If you've got anything to say, please do.

@babs787,

If you could kindly set the dribbling aside, we can move on.

The Jewish Torah are still avaiable today - and you can obtain a copy in any good bookshop, in precisely the same way that any copy of the Bible or Qur'an can be obtained.

babs787:
If the Torah is not included as part of the Quran, how come the story of Moses in the Quran?

Your Qur'an does not call it the story of Moses; rather, it calls it the BOOKS OF MOSES or the BOOK of Moses!!

       Quran 53:36 -- "Or hath he not had news of what is in the books of Moses" [Pickthall's tr.]

Trying to bring up the issue of "story" into the debate is denying the exact wording of the Qur'an. Thanks.

babs787:
you are still asking the same thing over again and again. What does the Jewish Torah christian Torah contain?

Please let me know when you're ready for answers. Games don't make you sound intelligent; rather, they betray your fallacies.

That is because we are challenging the accusations of the Qur'an against Christians and Jews that we are polytheists. So, we would like to know what they are in themselves, and amicably examine that issue from their books.

@eeman,

For your sake, I trust you haven't joined the team of sobbing Muslims.

The issues here being discussed are clearly outlined. Nobody (to my knowledge) has asked Muslims to change the direction of prayer; and to be sure, history has it that even some Christians of the Catholic tradition have prayed facing the East (citations provided upon request!). Have you asked yourself the real reason why Muhammad changed directions from JERUSALEM to MECCA??

I was searching for articles for a paper and stumbled on this Forum. Being Nigerian myself, I wondered why most Nigerian Muslims have continued to recycle the buried propaganda of vexed Muslim apologists like dr. Naik Zakir and Ahmed Deedet?? If you doubt me, ley me ask you yet another question: How did I manage to come up with all the "proof, facts, and evidences" posted here if I hadn't done some research of sorts?? That was how I came to know that Zakir is only a show man - and Muslims who know nothing better have continued to recycle his propaganda.

I'm not going to be on the Forum for very long - so you can dry your tears now. happy afterall??

But before I vamoose, let me assure you that most of the early Muslim traditions have been changed. I'll mention only trivial issues so you don't choke on your sobs.

#1. Muhammad prohibited the making of pictures, threatening that anyone making them will be punished with the severest punishment of Allah on judgement Day. Guess what?? Muslims today pay no attention to his threats; and most of the pictures I posted are from Muslim sites!!

#2. The claim has been made that Muhammad performed miracles. Guess what? Most muslims today simply don't buy into that for the simple reason that none of his were recorded in 'Allah's book - the Qur'an!!'

#3. The rascal joke of Human Embryology in Islam has been debunked - and solidly so!! Guess what?? Scholars in Islamic science no longer pay attention to the show man naik Zakir!!

#4. the claim has been made by the same set of apologists that the Torah of the Qur'an is LOST!! Guess what?? That idea is fast losing popularity among reasonable Muslims who don't stoop so low to make that al-taqiyya claim. In the Hadith, Muhammad handled confessed that he believed in the Torah that the Jews used - the very same one that the Jews still have!!

I could go on and on; and when I say that I have over 400 different questions that you're not likely to find anywhere on the web, believe me that I'm not kidding!! If I post them on the Forum, any search you make on Google will bring you back here gbam!!

So, my sister (if you allow me the term). . . I have many muslim friends here in the UK where I school; but quite a few back home in Nigeria. Guess what?? They are very intelligent people, and none of them have dared to brag about Zakir Naik's articles. None!! To be sure, out of the many friends, only three have to been converted to leave islam and to follow Jesus Christ. I'm still praying for my other friends, although they find me quite a bit of trouble!! Yet we can play football together, blah-blah.

I even have eyes for a Muslim babe. She's been missing in action with her disappearing acts recently. Do you want to take her place?? Honestly, I don't mind. the problem is that she says in Islam, Muslim ladies are not allowed to befriend men (Muslim or Christian men). . . but Muslim men are allowed to marry our women!! I tire!!

@babs787,

babs787:
Four gospels composed by men were chosen by Athanasius, a fourth century bishop to replace the lost gospel of jesus Christ (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)

There are a few questions that arise from your response:

#1. How many were the lost Gospels?

#2. Who were the writers of the lost Gospels?

#3. When were those lost Gospels written?

#4. What did the lost Gospels say or teach?

#5. How did they agree or disagree with the Gospels of the NT?

#6. How did they agree or disagree with the Qur'an?

#7. Who had read those lost Gospels before they disappeared without a single trace?

#8. What did the lost Gospels teach about Muhammad and Islam?

#9. What does the Qur'an say about the lost Gospels?

#10. Which Gospels were used by Muhammad before they got lost?

#11. How long was it before and/or after the 'loss' that the extant Gospels of the NT appeared?

If you can find answers to all these questions (without your usual skits of dodging them) from any of the sources you quoted, then you will understand what is wrong in recycling materials that have no basis. These are just a few of the 165 questions I have for those who bring up such backdoor assertions without scholarly knowledge; not to mention that they find their way into the media!!

@babs787,

I notice your antics is to dodge issues and then play your games. Can you please go to the previous page and answer my questions - the arrows are there. You usual play the game of ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST. Sorry, my questions came first!!

babs787:
A for the Qiblah detector then please explain better, how does it detect direction to face in prayer regardless of your country.

Here again:

Simple maps and geographic knowledge simply throw that idea to the bin. It is a "qiblah detector" and not a geographic positioning device like a GPS!!    That is the problem with you guys - convenient tools to hide all the deception. The qiblah detector works in precisely the same way that a metal detector works!!


Place a piece of metal in a large circle, and from any point on the circumference of that circle your metal detector will lead you to the spot where the metal is located!! But a metal detector will not detect geographic positions like a GPS does! Get it now?? 

timmy7:
Do u really want to discredit that bible verse or what's your point. I know u already have a mind set on this

The mindset is simply this: their Islamic Injil is LOST; so they must by default discredit every other Injil!

@babs787,

babs787:
Can you put the above to rest?

I haven't seen your rebuttal of the claim you made that your Torah is lost.

babs787:
You have been the one deceiving yourself and ignoring my questions.

Thanks. My questions haven't been answered.

babs787:
Really, I have lots to post in which you will never be able to refut, have you been able to refute the contradictions and other issues?

I have loads for your reading pleasure as well. Have you answered the ones I offered??

babs787:
You have been going in circles, posting lengthy rejoinders yet not making sense. I didnt notice the link probably because of the topic used.

"You-have-been-this, you-have-been-that!" I would appreciate it if you can just stick to the issues and impress your adulators behind the scenes. I don't think my rejoinder just above was "lengthy" in contrast to the reposted one you borrowed from the sheikh.

babs787:
Now brother, can you just do me good, by rebutting the one posted up.

Already rebutted by shahan. Post your own scholarship and we'll help you.

babs787:
You are one the making fuss of yourself. I asked a question and he provided a verse. Yours is to answer my question bros and stop playing smart, avoiding questions and I am very sure, you will bring your own question to cover your loopholes as you have been doing in other threads.

Thank you. Can we see your rigmarole afterall?