₦airaland Forum

mukina2:
some Questions do not really merit an answer .tell me if you guys call him names all the time, how do you expect me to answer to you, without further provocation?

What beats me is the idea of a Muslim denouncing fellow Muslim authors as "deluded authors that lied in order to deceive"; and then trying to ridicule their own Prophet Jesus in the idea that they are getting back at Christians! I wonder why no Muslim has called the attention of their Muslim brother to that misanthrope behaviour.

mukina2:
no one said it is a crime, but the way you guys go about your questioning is not the right way.

What is the "right way" to set forth questions - especially the ones that some of your Muslim brethren have set theirs forth?

mukina2:
If half the queries are done with less name calling and taunts, then a whole lot of muslims will reply to you guys. there are lots of muslims here but some avoid this religion board because of the way you guys go on.

The same rule should apply across board; and I welcome that. I think that is something I have tried to maintain, so far as to ignore the petty "tit-for-tat" games by babs and still offer my questions. I haven't seen any answers yet to those questions.

mukina2:
Muslims are also bold to talk about Islam provided , it goes the right way.

Christians have also been confident in discussing Christianity.

mukina2:
if you were the ask me about Muhammad (saw) and you did so with all sincerity.
i will answer you. But if you do so with malicious comments, i'll simply ignore that and carry on .

I hope that same response could be applied to Muslims who have other agenda on their minds when they ask their questions about Jesus Christ and Christianity?

It is the element of sincerity that is seriously lacking in so many Muslim posts; that is why they have often called everyone else "ignorant fools" without even checking out the previous entries!

mukina2:
another malik or Gwaine or shaitan abi

Ok telly B keep preaching may the Lord be with you Amen!

And you, too. Amin.

_{BTW, what's up with those names? At least I know of one Muslim (sandoka) who has earned my respect, and anoda Muslim convert (pilgrim.1) who's arguments are unmatched by Muslims!}

Yea, but we don't know - especially as their locations are "secret"/unassuming.

I would really be interested in what can be shared, at least you knew that much already!

mellow:
My people perish for like of wisdom

Hmmm??   Was that not supposed to be "lack"??

@I-man,

[quote author=I-man link=topic=53868.msg1130095#msg1130095 date=1179667621]So we should start killing innocent muslims as well?The best way to counter Islamic extremism is not through the force of our weaponry but the force of our example[/quote]I'm not sure alexis was recommending that we start killing innocent muslims. Violence is not always to be extremely defined as murdering and killing. I know for a fact that at the ordinary level, it entails imposing one's religious codes on members of other religions, with threat of losing their jobs or discriminated against or harrassed should anyone run foul of that law.

Now, alexis clearly stated that people reading the Bible should be given the same "political" treatment as was suffered by Toyin in the hands of her murderers. I concede that may not be a balanced evaluation of issues affecting everyone. However, we are dealing with something far more sinister than "politics" - and this developments have got to be nipped in the bud.

@alexis,

Believe me, to apply the very same rule is to slice our own bellies! Painful as it is, I lost a dear friend in one of those Muslim riots in the north. The pain is still fresh and the month is a very painful period every year for her parents.

To be quite honest, I have felt very same angst you feel. But when I think of the far-reaching love of Christ, Himself enduring a painful death for MY sake, I beg Him to keep my heart and preserve me against feelings of retaliation. . . or the games of "tit-for-tat"!!

It may be very difficult for many even now, but believe it or not, most of my Muslim friends wept - genuinely wept - when they were shown copies of newspapers carrying the report.

It's a tough one for us; but time will come when the real perpetrators of unbridled evil will meet their waterloo!!

I'm not after you - and there's no rule that one has to wait until your username has been pushed up before we can then reply! Is that another reaction of insecurity? Did you not post right after mine?

Mukina2, relax. This hooha about let me be should not suggest that we're after anyone.

chumakk:
let me know the time your wife becomes a product you have to TEST before use.

Wetin you wan know about anoda person wife??

mukina2:
its not about insecurity .

I feel perfectly ok .discussing religion away from nairaland with open minded christians

but here on nairaland, they never even wait for your last statement to drop .they are out to attack .

they always talk about Islamic fanatism but they are also fanatics, in that only what they say or what their religion says is the right thing .

See what I mean?? You guys are so predictable!! I just knew this was coming and you couldn't resist the temptation to launch your invectives - the very first on this thread!!

What is the rush in bringing allegations against others here? The question is simply about "why people feel insecure in discussing their religion"; and the next thing is your response claiming that it is NOT about insecurity!! Maybe, maybe not. I haven't read here that any Christian has to complain about Muslims here before they can feel secure.

We've seen Gilbert Deya many times. Hmm, na wah! People may genuinely fall under a 'power wave'; but when are people going to grow up and understand God's Word for themselves?

Sad as such occurences are, I would not advocate that. Religion is a sensitive issue; but that is not enough to divide the country. There are other countries where people of different faiths have lived together and continue to hold on to their national identity.

The spotlight should be switched on the elements among the leaders of religion who see it as a means to achieving their heinuos ends. The criminal silence of such leaders, and the actions of Muslim governors imposing the Islamic code on non-muslims are the bane of our society as a unique people.

Seun:
Exactly. Nigerians are very vocal about their religious beliefs.

Even outside Nigeria, we are still respected (and sometimes denounced) for that. But that's quite an observant statement.

BillGatesFan:
East is where the power of God duels,even in the bible GOD says that the people of the East are my chosen people,no wonder any where in the world, it is only in the East of every country that you have abundance mineral resources. and wealth. THINK YOU Judas of modern times, think or read your bible or Koran well before you ask your silly questions.

Could you please offer some references for your persuasions? Thanks. 

Why do these fellows keep sun-tanning their brains?

@kq,
No offences, but your recycled theory has been nailed to the coffin and its ghost happens to drift here and there among people who have refused to investigate the claims made in Islam.

Abraham knew nothing of the Kaa'ba nor about the black stone. It is this very same issue that have informed my questions earlier:

       # Why would God have had to set Islam aside and establish Judaism and Christianity
          before coming back to Islam centuries later??

       # What was the main reason why Muhammad was first facing Jerusalem in his prayers?

       # What was the main reason why Muhammad turned from Jerusalem to the Kaa'ba?

       # Why was the prayer direction not first towards the Kaa'ba but rather towards Jerusalem?

      # why is there not a single mention of the BLACK STONE anywhere in the religious history
         of Adam, Abraham and the Jews in their worship when you read the Jewish scriptures?

      # who commanded Muhammad to KISS the BLACK STONE, and what is the significance of that?

      # who commanded Muslims to venerate the BLACK STONE in their hajj to Mecca??

       # why is the hajj to the Kaa'ba and the BLACK STONE nowhere indicated in the Torah??[/font]

Until you guys find some answers to these pressing questions, you will perhaps never be able to discover how baseless are the many claims made in Islam.

It wouldn't appear that Christians are insecure in discussing Christianity.

@Ushersx,

Ushersx:
@  TELLYB, firstly am proud 2be a muslim, its a shame when 1 is ignorant or stupid, i believe i know more dan an average muslim,so i what 2do in cases like this, i talk 2d wise nd open minded people who re willin 2learn nd not critics, SO IF UR WILLIN 2LEARN UR FREE 2ASK ME QUESTIONS BUT NOT STUPID ONCE

Asking you questions is not going to yield any benefit to you personally. There are a few on the previous page - did you miss them? Your first entrant to this thread simply shows where your IQ is measured at; so don't waste precious space and time. 

Those you mistake for "wise nd open minded people" have said nothing tangible - and this is the 6th page so far. The kind of folks you identify with are revealed in the level of maturity you display, especially having to enter the thread with the usual Islamic dance of calling others "ignorant fools" when you have said nothing to show the flaws in the previous entries.

Only half-witted guys vroom into threads making statements like that. The Bible has the following interesting things to say about your type of behaviour:

Prov. 13:16 - 'Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.'

Prov. 17:28 - 'Even fools seem smart when they are quiet.'

That is why I hinted that if you've got nothing to say, keep quiet and quit playing the usual games your folks have been at all along - it only makes matters worse for you.

@topic,

If words have meanings (as surely they do), then there is a world of difference between a name and an attribute. Muhammad did not say that Allah had 99 attributes; rather he said Allah had 99 NAMES!

The Qur'an does not give those 99 names, and it is only typical of Muslims to now edit their understanding of Muhammad's words and start looking for 99 attributes in the Qur'an.

Comparing all the lists that have been published and adding them up, people have to wonder that there are more than 99 "attributes" (or names)! So, whose of them actually has the correct listing of the 99 names/attributes??

Bottomline, the idea that there were 99 names is simply fallacious. Muhammad himself who planted the idea did not leave any lists of his own findings of those names. The promised reward of entering paradise for whoever finds the 99 names is still hanging, and may probably never be fulfilled; as no one can argue that his own listing is the correct among the several ones in circulation!

somze:
i have just looked and the links and seen babs787 among other statements refer to our salvation as - https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-51734.32.html#msg1100541

I would prefer to give him a benefit of doubt since he has not shown such lately.

Let's just hope so and see.

stimulus:
Hmmm. . . "But so it was made to appear to them"

#1. "Made to appear" - by WHO??

#2. "Made to appear" - which is the line often used by Muslims to argue that someone else was crucified instead of Jesus. Please, WHO WAS THAT SOMEONE ELSE?? What is his name?? Where did he come from?? And what happened to him afterwards??

Wey them?

Ushersx:
@BABS787 NOTIN DO U, , BUT AL D SAME U GET TYME 2DEY ANSWER MORONS,

We know. . . and he has not been able to provide answers to the "morons". So keep sobbing.

stimulus:
No bother. We are all too familiar with the "political correctness" of some of our folks. . . and you have served us one such presently - in your response.

Let me ask: if I'm not in any position to quote their own books, what gives them the rightto quote the Bible for what they see as right or wrong?? Please, play it safe with your umpireship, yes??

As a devoted Christian, I guess you never heard of apologetics? Or, you never read from the Bible that the apostles quoted from the books, cultures, poetries and ideologies of others in order to bring them round to see their own position in contrast with what God had to offer? Go read well - devoted Christians do just that; and that's one of the things that we are set to do here on the Forum.

Details of the above? Ask, and I'll gladly oblige you!

Cheers.

Good answer.

@babyosisi,

babyosisi:
Why have they banned Christian TV in the sharia states?

Or stopped crusades?

Or kill those who leave Islam?

why do they block and censor the internet in Muslim nations?

These again are very pointed questions that our Muslim friends should help answer. No dramas or frantic acrobatic evading, parrying, or ducking them. Just straightforward answers will do. Thanks.

Ushersx:
u all re a bunch of ignorant fools, u think its funny playin with ppls belief?your beta look 4some tin else 2joke with if your al that foolish,

If you've got nothing reasonable to say, simply ignore what you feel is biting you.

@Realpoint,

Realpoint:
I didn't know I can use part of someone message that was why I posted all nuru message earlier. I am very busy now.

No problem. We can all be busy between times.

Realpoint:
The last reply was meant for davidylan.

That is no reason to have posted replies that ignored the issues raised in my rejoinder to your earlier post.

Realpoint:
Did I mention Islam ? I was talking of religion and All the prophet of God came with messege of God without tagging it religion until the time of Prophet.What is the religion of Abraham?

The religion of Abraham was not Islam.   Let me help you think carefully on this point with just one question:  

Why would God have to set Islam aside and establish Judaism and Christianity before coming back to Islam centuries later??

Abraham predated Judiasm, right? Right. If Abraham was a Muslim in the religion of Islam, what is the logic behind Allah setting Abraham's Islam aside in order to establish Judaism?? It would only mean two things at this level:

    (a) Islam makes unsubstantiated claims (whether in science, history or religion)

    (b) Islam did not begin with Abraham, even if Muhammad claimed that it did!

Realpoint:
You are wrong to say geographers at least 600 years before Islam emerged.Islam has being the religion of all the prophets including Jesus Christ(AS).

Not true, so please don't let your hangers fly frantically. Muhammad claimed that Islam has been the religion of all the prophets; but he conveniently left out several of those prophets whose revelations stand to expose Muhammad's claims as baseless. Where in the Qur'an were the following prophets mentioned:


                               - ISAIAH

                               - EZEKIEL

                               - ZECHARIAH

                               - DANIEL

                               - JEREMIAH

                               - MICAH?

At least, we know that Jesus made direct references to three of those prophets by name:

            (a) Isaiah [see Matt. 15:7-9 & Mark 7:6-7 and compare with Isa. 29:13]

            (b) Daniel [see Matt. 24:15 & Mark 13:14 and compare with Dan. 12:11]

            (c) Zechariah [see Matt. 23:35 and compare with II Chron. 24:20-22]

In the Qur'an, none of those prophets were referred to by name simply because their revelation would have turned Islam on its head if Muhammad had made direct reference to them. None of these prophets were Muslims; and historians as well as Islamic scholars cannot deny the fact that Islam as a religion was unknown before Muhammad was born.

Realpoint:
you know what I don't have much time as I have said earlier this discussion has taken most of my time.God knows the truth you can call it anyname you what.Dodge.

I also don't have that much time; and I've said a few times that I'm here on this Forum for a short time. However, I might as well be here for a little longer because you guys keep making statements that clearly fly in the face of history, religion and science!!

Realpoint:
My friend I am not the type that find it so hard to leave with other religion.Telly B ,I know you are good in using words.

I can live with Muslims, and there are quite a lot of them that are my very good friends. . .a few Hindus and Sikhs as well; and I find them very intelligent people who don't argue from the black hole! Certainly, those brilliant minds have taken me to task - and I'm thankful to God for such a blessing.

No mind me at all - I'm a Nigerian as well   . . . and I can appreciate good sense in the dictions of others (like you) as well as the honesty of people like sandoka!

Realpoint:
Take good care of yourself.bye for now.

Blessings until we have the occasion to rub minds again.  

babs787:
Four gospels composed by men were chosen by Athanasius, a fourth century bishop to replace the lost gospel of jesus Christ (The New Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. 14, page 814)

Again, there are a few questions that arise from your often repeated response above:

#1. How many were the lost Gospels?

#2. Who were the writers of the lost Gospels?

#3. When were those lost Gospels written?

#4. What did the lost Gospels say or teach?

#5. How did they agree or disagree with the Gospels of the NT?

#6. How did they agree or disagree with the Qur'an?

#7. Who had read those lost Gospels before they disappeared without a single trace?

#8. What did the lost Gospels teach about Muhammad and Islam?

#9. What does the Qur'an say about the lost Gospels?

#10. Which Gospels were used by Muhammad before they got lost?

#11. How long was it before and/or after the 'loss' that the extant Gospels of the NT appeared?

#12. Who discovered that those 'gospels' were lost and how was that conclusion reached?

#13. when was this idea of the lost Gospels popularized in Islam, and who are those behind that idea?

#14. Why were the following prophets not mentioned in the Qur'an by name:

                                - ISAIAH

                                - EZEKIEL

                                - ZECHARIAH

                                - DANIEL

                                - JEREMIAH

                                - MICAH?


Finding answers to all these questions (without your usual skits of dodging them) will help you come to terms with how baseless are your claims and assertions. Recycling materials that have gapping holes in them hasn't helped your efforts at all.

@muhsin,

Could I please ask you this question:

# what is the ideology behind the lynching of a Christian (or anyone at all) in the name of
throwing a Qur'an that no one was able to give evidence for that there was indeed a Qur'an?

@Realpoint,

Realpoint:
I hate deviation due to any reason in which that is what u are doing mostly.

Please don't try to cheat the thread with this dry rot. Your brother nuru was the one that launched the deflection when he saw his post was put where it belonged; and you have been trying to whip up the same deflection several times.

The questions he brough up about the deity of Jesus Christ have been answered; and those you whipped up have been answered as well. I haven't seen you guys address the questions I offered, other than the usual dribbling you've been displaying.

Where have you or nuru answered the following questions in my earlier post?

        # Where do Muslims themselves get the idea that they face the EAST when praying?

        # Are there verses in the Qur'an and Hadiths stipulating the direction Muslims face for
           salat?

        # What was the main reason why Muhammad was first facing Jerusalem in his prayers?

        # What was the main reason why Muhammad turned from Jerusalem to the Kaa'ba?

        # Why was the prayer direction not first towards the Kaa'ba but rather towards Jerusalem?

You guys pretended you didn't see them before trying to introduce your Islamic propaganda.

Realpoint:
Look I don't and can't dodge issue.

Indeed! And you conveniently pretended that you didn't dodge the questions above. And what have you said about the fact that there were reknowned geographers at least 600 years before Islam emerged??

You don't dodge issues indeed!

Realpoint:
Is it until God come in human flesh before he can save the world? Remember He created the world.God is might than coming to human level before doing any thing.
God's came in human flesh and killed by His creation so that He could forgive them as you've claimed.How rational,logical and realistic is that?Do you mean God can't forgive without embark on such suicide mission.

This is the "maturity" you have displayed in your discussion by the highlighted words, not so? You guys often don't realize how much you slice your middle region with your vitriol by trying to calumniate Jesus Christ. But here are a few questions to help you reflect on the whining you called questions:

       # why did Allah have to wait until Muhammad's time before sending the "religion of peace"??

       # why did he have to wait until several of his own books (torah and injil) went missing??

       # what is the logic behind the suicide mission of your jihadists??

       # why was Muhammad changing his mind on several issues and then making up that it was
           Allah who changed his mind on those issues?

       # why is there not a single mention of the BLACK STONE anywhere in the religious history
          of Adam, Abraham and the Jews in their worship when you read the Jewish scriptures?

       # who commanded Muhammad to KISS the BLACK STONE, and what is the significance of that?

       # who commanded Muslims to venerate the BLACK STONE in their hajj to Mecca??

        # why is the hajj to the Kaa'ba and the BLACK STONE nowhere indicated in the Torah??



Deflecting from the topic, and playing your usual Islamic games of circumventing core concerns, are not going to help you sweep this issue away so simply.

Realpoint:
I still mentain my ground.If you want us to open a topic to clear the issues on ground fine.But let us be precise in our answer rather than deviation.That is the point I am making since.

Your questions have been recycled many times in various circles. But even so, I appreciate that the present topic be preserved.

batu:
Obviously the 'progenitor or originator' of that claim has little or no knowledge of human anatomy.

They had some knowledge - especially from the fact that there were reknowned names in medicine and biological sciences long before Muhammad was born.

Perhaps what happened is that the claimant of the tale of the "miracle iris" forgot his cue as he penned those words.

@Realpoint,

I'm not cast in the usual Islamic mold of reading issues backwards with cataract eyes; and that is why I could see that sandoka made sense, and appreciated it.

Besides him, there's no other Muslim that has been that honest. The rejoinders coming from the rest of you chaps have sought to fill the page with literary muck. One would have expected you guys to point out issues rather than whine like kids.

Go through the thread and see that the emphasis of my concerns have not been about people facing anywhere to pray. Rather, for Muslims to try and cheat the public with their usual analphabetic bragado and self-adulation simply won't work anymore as long as I'm on the Forum. Concerns about the "spiritual symbol" of the BLACK STONE are still left hanging; and any effort made to query that has been termed questioning the Almighty! What silliness.

I've told you guys: it wasn't my intention to stay very long on the Forum. I came here to spank your middle-aged deception which have been long bantered around as a sad substitute for intelligence; and after all that, I found the Muslim presence here rather a noise. Mission accomplished; so dry your eyes now and go sporting with the same cacophony in my absence. But not before my subscript to your latest nuisance:

Realpoint:
Do you think this guy is not right about you??You only know how to play with words not that you are saying the right thing as you have claimed.

It's a very simple thing: show me where I'm gravely mistaken and we'll take it from there!

Realpoint:
Geography came after religion has being established so I do not know why I should apply geography of common man to the directive of Al might God as you claimed while praising sandoka.

First, sandoka has earned my respect; and I'm grateful to have met an honest and open Muslim who has distinguished himself. He understood and knew exactly the facts on ground, which is still taking the rest of you forever to see.

Now, what religion are you talking about? Islam?? There were reknowned geographers and scientists before the emergence of Islam; and to pretend that 'religion' (if you rather meant 'Islam') came before geography is to manipulate history and once again expose your ribald scholarship.

Eratosthenes (275-195 BC) was the first person to use the word "geography" and was himself a Greek mathematician, geographer, and astronomer. He was reknowned for being the first to have calculated the circumference of the earth, using trigonometry and knowledge of the angle of elevation of the Sun at noon in Alexandria and in the Elephantine Island near Syene (now Aswan, Egypt). He is also noted for devising a system of longitude and latitude, and made several important contributions to mathematics and science.

Read more here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes

This is only one example of a geographer who lived  well over 600 years before Muhammad was born! And you sitting there gritting  about how your islamic religion came before geography! Please don't embarrass the public reader further than has been endured from you and your folks.

Realpoint:
Remember that human being know little of God's knowlegde so why this comparison??

I remember that we're frail and know not as we ought to know. However, to murky the waters of clear reasoning with the beggerly backyard claims of so many Muslims is scandalous!

Realpoint:
I think you are trully ignorant of the might of God.

God has not asked us to sit on our brains and become automatons of analphabetism. Go check your Qur'an: it clearly tells you that Christians are intelligent people in Sura 5:82:

". . .nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians":
because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world,
and they are not arrogant."

I should not even tell you what Muhammad thought of Arabs!

Realpoint:
The question is again:Why Do Muslims Face The East When Praying?[/b]Does this has to do with geography?I repeat my answer we do not face East ,we face Kaaba periods and it in obedient to Al might God.

Do you listen to yourself when you speak at all; or you're just letting your vehemence run wild? When you mention "[b]The East" and asking if this has to do with geography, should we begin to wonder about your reading skills?

Realpoint:
Are you sincere to yourself?If yes answer this question.
Does God that created Adam without father and mother,then created Eva from Adam without mother then created Jesus Christ without father is the greatest or Jesus His creation .Is only people that doesn't think to this length will take Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

You're making me laugh! Jesus Christ was NOT created - He IS the Creator! I've said it before and referenced John 1:3. What you Muslims are so desperately seeking is to denounce the Bible and make Jesus a "slave" to 'Allah' to suit your religion and conscience! If He is not the Saviour, what does the Qur'an mean by calling Him the Messiah??

Realpoint:
Try Islam with it uniqueness in everything.

Islam is not unique in everything. Unique in a few things, yes; but unique in everything, NO! The issues about claims of the Qur'an being scientific is a sham; and perhaps that is one reason that will keep me longer on the Forum. Call for your best apologists for back-up; and I'll gladly take them on.

Regards.

@davidylan,

Water don comot for my eye with laff! Abeg make I go house - I've played enough in the cafe!! See you guys later!