₦airaland Forum

@Horus,

Thanks for taking the trouble to outline your answers. Albeit, they are the usual claims that have been recycled one too many times, and they leave gapping holes for us to keep questioning them:

Horus:
1-Other race came from us (it was in my post)

That may be your persuasion, but it is quite a difficult point to establish. A lot of sociologists are not agreed on this point; and the argument falls on either side depending on what anyone wants to believe.

Horus:
2-We civilized the caucasians

It all depends on what you mean by "civilized".

Horus:
but if we don't hold Europe,it is more due to the barbaric nature of the caucasians who mixed his seed by force with us (it was in my post) and not due to us.

Which again makes Blacks sound like a weak race for not being able to hold theirs. There are documented evidence that Blacks were also savage and barbaric, and we can't pretend round this even though we're also Blacks.

Horus:
3-Nothing was distinguished about other race.they just used religion on us to trap us under believe.(it was in my post)

Another misconception. The "us" you're referring to were what they were before exotic religions reached them. There were other religions being practiced by many Black people before Christianity reached their shores; so it would be well to not miscontrue ideas by using "religion" as an umbrella term for your misconceptions.

Horus:
Only a monority of African are begging for visas

This is not true. As noted by mrpataki just above, the number of those seeking visas for the West is more than you assume - and that is just about one country alone. I've travelled widely, and the situation is not any different in other West African countries that I've visited.

@T Singerr,

I'm not clairvoyant; but I could as well guess why we are not reading much from Muslims in recent times:

(a) there are no more articles to plagiarize as some (not all) of them have been doing. Materials to plagiarize for geographic questions are not easy to come by on the net these days! Of those that come close as good enough, it is all to make us realize that we are nothing but a bunch of "ignorant fools" for pointing out the directions and making sense from nonsense.

(b) when you don't read for a while from Muslim apologists, they're busy gathering more moss for the usual dribbling. . . you know that common brand these days: "tit-for-tat" and "ME-FIRST-YOU-LAST!"  

(c) they're cooling off and wondering what to make of one of their champions who ended up telling the Forum five shocking things to give his religion a new face:

         1. that the TORAH and INJIL of the Qur'an are LOST and cannot be found!

         2. that he was upset Jesus did not woo a woman or impregnate one at age 30!

         3. that he could not answer for himself on the fallacy of the claims for Human
             Embryology in the Qur'an!

         4. that inspite of our being "ignorant fools", his intelligence was unable to match
             half-way through some of the pointed questions he was asked!

         5. and he was aghast to discover he had slammed his own fellow Muslims, referring
            to them as "deluded authors that lied in order to believe!"

Certainly, there are more than a dozen more gaffe; but just these few so he doesn't choke on his discoveries!


Meanwhile, I still have some other concerns on this issue of the Kaa'ba/Qiblah. . . and leading on to the final result of all the efforts to face this direction in prayer and answering nature's call. Okay, I don't want to be branded a more palatable name than "ignorant fool"; but I have a serious question to ask - which may be a topic for a separate thread:


My dear Muslim friend,

                  Is it true that the Qur'an teaches that ALL Muslims will enter HELL FIRE?!?

If you have not read about this issue, what will you do when you discover the truth?
Does the Qur'an tell you HOW you will get out of HELL alive?
If you really care about your soul, have you taken the time to consider this very
important question for yourself?  Please do. What you discover might help you
understand who Jesus Christ really IS - and why even the Qur'an confesses Him
as the Messiah, the Christ.


Right. Please don't let my questions above derail this wonderful thread. But my Muslim friends should try and look into that question for their own good!

Cheers everyone!  

@Horus,

Horus:
I can see that you did not read my post at all because all 3 questions are answered in it.

Indeed, I read your post; but I still have to ask HOW you answered the questions for the simple reason that you did not.

Horus:
What is your purpose on the forum??

Same as would be yours.

Horus:
Reading your 3 questions you seem to believe that African are inferiors and that other race are superiors,

Then I take it that you did not read my posts before making that assumption. Here is a reminder:

Telly B:
This fallacy simply proves the idea that the Blacks were sleeping when the "other race" took Europe/England from them! Arguing like this simply makes Blacks a weak race, and I don't count as one to buy into that idea.

I don't reason out issues from mere passions and assertions. Where I can find substance to the ideas you put forward, I'll be grateful to have gained something to add to my understanding about issues.

Horus:
all 3 questions are answered in my post,did you read it??

I did. Please show me HOW you answered them. Thanks.

@Horus,

I had three question only:

# If 'the whole totality of this planet was populated by Blacks before the existance
of any other race', where did the other race come from?

# If the Blacks no longer find themselves holding Europe (including England),
what does that say about them?

# What then was so distinguished about the "other race" to have moved on and left
Blacks begging for visas to the same Europe that they once populated?

How have you answered these questions?

@nuru,

I'm glad for you. Why? Because, there again your Qur'an in Sura 5:82 has been proven again by the intelligent answers from those following your recent rejoinder!

Take a hint: whatever you read in the Qur'an as relating to the histories of the Jewish people, make a little research before you hinge your faith on the baseless claims coming from you.

Is the topic not quite misleading? Good intentions, perhaps; but method of delivery. . .??

Oga Horus. We hear. 

How about your passionate claim that "the whole totality of this planet (including Europe) was populated by Blacks before the existance of any other race"?!?

I was actually looking forward to something you might have had, that would point me to a new discovery about that claim. . . some well-written resource by someone balanced, perhaps?

I've read a small pamphlet written by Dr. Odukoya, and found it interesting. It was something about the Eagle Christian.

However, apart from gists here and there, I really don't know what to make about the type of prayer that wishes people dead!

olutomiwa:
it only shows that he is HUMAN,just like you and i,

I wish that were true! In which case I would have spent some good weeks in Aso Rock, and tatsted the sweet juice of commanding, demanding, reprimanding, manhandling, and even sef commandeering whatever suits my interests!

Let the baba cry! He's only missing what he left behind at AR!

Hugoboi:
U suddenly caved in to the pressure after all.

They say "sh*t happenz - u neva hear?!?

@mellow,

wetin happen? You wan kill me with laugh before my time??

 

@mukina2,

mukina2:
Hello everyone

Hi! https://www.easyexpat.com/forums/images/smiles/wave.gif

mukina2:
I am a muslim and i am not ashamed to say so .

I am a Christian - no regrets O!

mukina2:
Too many people are out their claiming to be muslims but yet destroying what they did not create,
these people are not muslims .

Sad. But who are they then?

mukina2:
I am sayin this to those who keep calling me a terrorist,

-stop stalking me all over the forum

Una hear, stalkers?? STOP it! It is not good manners!!

mukina2:
- the christians here can tell you that i have never once Insulted Jesus or any other Person in the Bible

Em. . . at least since I came on board!  

mukina2:
- i have never once insulted anyne

Hmmm. .     Okay, just kidding!

mukina2:
-
If they start posting things i do not like, i leave religion and go to other parts of the forum

Sensible thing to do.  

mukina2:
- I try as best as i can to get on with everyone on this forum be you christian, muslim Jew, hindu, or Pagan

That's why I like you.  

mukina2:
- no one knows who goes to heaven or hell

True?  

mukina2:
I am asking the newcomers here to please take note and never call me a terrorist .

Yikes!! https://bestsmileys.com/clueless/2.gif But I'm new here as well! Wetin I go do??

mukina2:
I have ignored you guys but if you persist , i wont ignore you anymore .

Wetin you go do?? Okay, you're a Te. .ter. . terr. .   _{Oh bother!! I dey fear!!}  

mukina2:
Ma salaam

https://bestsmileys.com/flowers/2.gif


_{Wey I-man sef??}  

Okay, take it e-z, muki. We dey solidly behind you.

Hugs.

Please do, and thanks.

Lol @thesilent1,

thesilent1:
Gosh, i really do need to stop this sarcasm; Telly b i am trying my brother! LOL

We all do our best, don't we?? I'm praying for myself as well!

jerrymania:
ehm Bill Gates this should have been in the "Offtopic" board!

living in PH has made you lost your senses,. . . while not shut up your mouth, . . .

Look at you Mr know it all.

Hmmm.    All that for simply one line of suggestion - on top of OBJ's weeping!

@jerrymania, take it easy, even if your post is not appreciated.

Lol @batu,

The very 'deception' that we read in Islam is what we're challenging on the Forum (I stand to be corrected) - in just the same way that our Muslim friends have continually been reading 'deception' into the Christian faith.

It is obvious that so many claims in Islam cannot survive even their own scrutiny; and the convenient thing has always been to pass them off as "Allah knows best" - even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

We do hope that some of them will come to terms with what they have been held by rote, but which have no substance in reality beyond Muhammad's claims (most of which were simply personal and not divine revelations).

@ricadelide,

Thank you for adding to my understanding. Cheers.

Horus:
the whole totality of this planet (including Europe) was populated by Blacks before the existance of any other race.England belong to Blacks.

This fallacy simply proves the idea that the Blacks were sleeping when the "other race" took Europe/England from them! Arguing like this simply makes Blacks a weak race, and I don't count as one to buy into that idea.

A few questions, however, might be helpful here:

# If 'the whole totality of this planet was populated by Blacks before the existance
of any other race', where did the other race come from?

# If the Blacks no longer find themselves holding Europe (including England),
what does that say about them?

# What then was so distinguished about the "other race" to have moved on and left Blacks begging
for visas to the same Europe that they once populated?

I'm a black person; but this idea that Blacks populated "the totality of this planet before the existence of any other race" is simply reasoning from passion, without carefully thinking issues through.

There's more to 'going to church' than many people realize. Missing out on Church fellowship puts one in a position of actually disobeying God's Word:

Heb. 10:25 - Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed: but comforting
one anther, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.'

One may fancy himself or herself quite contented to go on being a 'Christian' without fellowship with a body of believers. However, such an idea falls far short of what God would have us be and do.

@T Singerr,

T Singerr:
Nuru you have committed a fundamental offence against christianity. You don't just talk about christianity like that. I don't know shishi about the quran but I'm sure that it preaches self control somewhere. God said in the Bible that He has exlted His word above His name. The Bible is sacred. Dont say it is corrupted because I have not seen a more contradictory book than the quran. You've committed a grave offence and you had better repent before God smites you.

Well, let's give him the benefit of doubt at the moment. At least, he has a different appraoch to issues than the rascals who hurt their religion the more by trying to play the "tit-for-tat" game. Some of the issues you have expressed will be taken up in my next post later today, Lord willing.

Respects.

@nuru,

I must commend your efforts to be restrained in your expressions when dealing with this very passionate topic. However, I've observed that you really haven't taken the time to investigate the claims in the Qur'an, and that's rpobably why you seem to be offering convenient answers that still are wide of berth.

At any rate, i'll take the time to walk you through some of the issues you haven't dealt with; and I'll try to be balanced when doing so.

Regards.

Lol @babyosisi,

Well, admittedly that's a very difficult one for me. I'm still trying to grapple with what is actually meant by facing neither A nor B; and then to be seen doing the same things that the law-giver expressly forbids others. Again, there are two things one must carefully notice here: (a) it all depends on the orientation of the person in question; (b) it is no big deal in some instances as long as a 'screen' is covering the person (whatever is meant by the 'screen').

Yet, the two issues above present huge problems. To face neither directions of the two Qiblahs (Mecca and Jerusalem) may be utterly impossible for so many Muslims in other parts of the world. Again, a good knowledge of geographic positioning is necessary for people who are quite distant from the two centers and may not be properly oriented towards their true east or west (don't forget the two easts and two wests mentioned in Qur'an 55:17). This is why we read recently about the gaffe of prisoners who had been answering nature's call in the wrong orientation.

The second problem is how to understand what is considered the 'screen'. Is it just anything in front of someone (like a wall, a tree, a camel, or a mess)? Or is it something else that is yet undefined? If the 'screen'/cover sorts of blocks the view or front of the person answering nature's call so that their 'business' does not collide or allign with the direction of the qiblahs; then what happens when such 'screens' are blocking the same person when praying?

These are the more germane questions that our Muslim friends should seek to proffer answers to, because they lie within the purview of this very topic about facing a particular direction (the Qiblahs) to pray - and as well in the connection of answering nature's call.

I know of quite a few Catholics who talk about their believing in being born again. Question is HOW and WHAT that translates into for them.

ThiefOfHearts:
How about you leave the white man's land, England as well.

Sweet thought!

Pride is not a virtue.

ricadelide:
@topic,
i've come across this uneducated rambling one too many times lately.

You can't blame the 'topic research'. In the originator's mind, his problem with the whiteman is a mere 500 years old.

babyosisi:
honey,wherever you see seminars on how to acquire wealth,attend if you desire,it would benefit you generally regardless of your religion.

Exactly!

Oya, noibilism - you hear??

---------------------------------

BTW, wey the Muslim ummah?? Is this not some worthy thread to make some input? Abi na only to demand 'answer my question' una sabi for this Fourm?

@nuru,

I promised to come come back later this evening to tidy up your rejoinder just above; but perhaps you left as posted. In due course, I'll be bringing out a few concerns from them.

------------------

Meanwhile, just for the records. I've been quite concerned about this whole business about what direction a Muslim is commanded to face - not only in prayer, but also in answering nature's call.  

This is not about some playing funny with your cherished beliefs in Islam; but what do I make of the following inconsistencies that suggest that Muhammad probably did not keep the injunction he served upon others? Sample these:

Abu-Dawud, Book 1, Number  0010
Narrated Ma'qil ibn AbuMa'qil al-Asadi: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him)
has forbidden us to face the two qiblahs at the time of urination or excretion.


Abu-Dawud, Book 1, Number  0013
Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah: The Prophet of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) forbade us
to face the qiblah at the time of making water. Then I saw him facing it (qiblah)
urinating or easing himself one year before his death.


Sahih Bukhari, Book 4, # 147
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: People say, "Whenever you sit for answering the call of nature,
you should not face the Qibla or Bait-ulMaqdis (Jerusalem)." I told them. "Once I went up the
roof of our house and I saw Allah's Apostle answering the call of nature while sitting on two
bricks facing Bait-ul-Maqdis (Jerusalem) (but there was a screen covering him.'
(FatehAl-Bari, Page 258, Vol. 1).


Sahih Bukhari, Book 4, # 150
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: I went up to the roof of Hafsa's house for some job and I saw
Allah's Apostle answering the call of nature facing Sham (Syria, Jordan, Palestine and
Lebanon regarded as one country) with his back towards the Qibla. (See Hadith No. 147).


Could you help shed some light on these seemingly contradicting adventures?

@davidylan,

Now I'm beginning to feel so sorry for these folks. They asked for "evidence, facts, proofs". The same have been proffered; and the best they could come up with is to label others as "ignorant fools"!!

Previously, I doubted very much if there was anything worth believing in the Qur'an. But now, from all that have been coming from our Muslim friends, I'm amazed to see how true is this verse from their Qur'an:

Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans;
and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say,
"We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning
and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
-- Qur'an 5:82.

So, okay. . . Christians are respected for being intelligent people - and that is coming from their Qur'an!! And yet they have the temerity to call us "ignorant fools!"

If "ignorant fools" is the best that our Muslim friends can give to such scholarship as have been demonstrated in the many rejoinders pointing out issues to them, then we should really keep our fingers crossed for them.

------------------------

@TayoD,

TayoD:
More politically correct statements. I guess we are to leave Osama Bin ladin and his hord of suicide bombers alone to practice their religion the way they seem fit - cold blooded murder of anyone who believes differently than they do!!!

Well, the smoke screen is waning. . . and the usual politically correct crowd should learn a thing or two about what they hitherto had no clue about. 

------------------------

@babyosisi,

babyosisi:
Tellyb and David,I'm so proud of you guys,it's good to read intelligent inputs.

Believe me, I'm so blessed to find many intelligent Christian folks on this Forum - and I've been quite challenged by the insight offered in the many outlines and links you offered in previous posts. 

babyosisi:
Have you noticed that after the geography lessons,some "smart ones" have denied facing east but now are stressing facing kabbah.

Actually, modern Muslim apologetics stress the Kaa'ba and say very little about facing east. The confusion was one of the reasons why the 'qiblah detector' was manufactured. However, the concept of 'facing east in prayer' in Islam was the main claim just over two decades ago. Islam has come of age, and concepts continue to change in tune with the time.

And certainly, there are many 'Christian' groups (particularly the Eastern Othodox Church) that still face the east whne praying. The difference here is that, they are not laying any claim to facing a "kaa'ba" when doing so; nor do they derive that belief from the Bible. It is just one of the many traditions that has stayed with that and several other groups.

babyosisi:
Kabbah and East are not the same,at least we got that part cleared up.

Very true. And that was what I wanted to nail to its coffin before setting forth my main concern about the KAA'BA and the BLACK STONE! We have often been offered the smoke screen that those two issues do not mean what non-Muslims have been reading into them. Really?? And that was why I have been asking questions about what Muslims have not been telling us.

@nuru,

I hope you can select your bits and piece from davidylan's rejoinder, and then see why my persuasions still stand that the typical Muslim response to issues is to argue from a black hole. I don't mean to be crude or sarcastic; but I still can't understand how you guys can afford to cheat on religious history and call that 'Islamic truth'!!