₦airaland Forum

LegalWolf:
Potential Thief TenQ

I had a very long journey over the weekend and I am just having time to settle down properly. In my view, travelling is akin to working and don't you think it is important for me to rest AFTER working? According to the bible, if the lazy ass yhwh can rest after work, why not me?

(underline mine).

First off, I find it interesting that a potential thief WOULD have the audacity to give me condition in a conversation about religion!! It is absurd and laughable. You even went ahead to tell me no need for meaningless thrashing:

THE MORAL QUESTION

1. Is it meaningless thrashing to TELL THE WORLD that the person who I am discussing about faith forged a statement, put it in inverted comma and attributed it to me. TO DATE, YOU HAVE NEVER DENIED YOU - TENQ - FORGED A STATEMENT AND ATTRIBUTED IT TO ME . Or have you? If you have point that out please

2. Is it meaningless thrashing to refuse from debating with a potential thief? The very great Yoruba tribe, which I think you belong to, have a saying that an habitual liar is a potential thief. Or would you deny this saying too? If this saying is to be believed, so tell me why it is meaningless thrashing when I refuse to debate with morally bankrupt potential thief like you?

PREVIOUS CONVERSATION
3. In our last conversation, I called for an explanation of Judges 1:19 and you completely went off the rail. For those who are unaware, the Book of Judges tells us the story of the people of Judah after the death of Joshua (Jud 1:1). One interesting verse in that book is Chapter 1:19 where the Bible narrates the story as follows:

The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron ( MY COMMENTARY: This verse is very simple. yhwh was with the people of Judah and he helped them defeat the people of the hill. But he met the people of the plain, he became powerless because they had chariots fitted with iron not bazooka or Ak47. So that means, if amotekun should fight with the people of Judah and with yhwh by their side, amotekun is sure of success )

4. In other to defend the indefensible, our potential thief went on to make a baseless assumption that the reason Judah could not drive people of the mountains (not plain - I am unsure where he saw this) was because Judah knew that they had chariots of iron.? Really? NO SANE HUMAN BEING WOULD READ JUDGES 1:19 OR THE WHOLE CHAPTER ONE OF THE BOOK OF JUDGES AND WOULD COME TO THAT CONCLUSION .

4. Our potential thief TenQ even went ahead with this shabby defense by arguing that Judah's faithlessness prevented him from conquering the land. How does this follow logically from the above? I repeat, ALL OVER CHAPTER ONE of the book of Judges, particularly where yhwh could not help the people of Judah defeat a people because they had Iron chariots, despite being with them, there was no mention of Judah's faithlessness. Or do you want me to reference the verses of judges I cited to you?

5. When this fact became overwhelmingly convincing and one of his allies could not rebut, he had to resort to deriving 'spiritual message' from Judges 1:19. LOL! The potential thief on the other hand had to run away and start putting up a defence of the battle of Uhud... Lol! Lazy ass yhwh!

6. It just occurred to me that yhwh could possibly be resting like he did in Genesis 2:3 when the battle against the plain was fought, coupled with the fact that his enemies had iron chariots... Instant victory against Judah. Lol

PRESENT DISCOURSE

7. Again, there is a lot of literature on this topic and I know other Muslims who possibly have never discussed with the potential thief would be of help.

8. More so, it is even interesting that a person who fails to connect the dots between the ritual sacrifices to his god and that of Obatala or Eshu has stands on a moral ground on asking me questions about shirk. Or are you telling me that the Bible was wrong in Genesis 4:4 when fat portion of livestock was sacrificed to yhwh? What is the difference between that and sacrifices to Olodumare ? (See this academic article for your reference: https://acjol.org/index.php/ekpoma/article/download/1679/1661)
(you noticed that out of deep respect I have for Yoruba people and culture, I even capitalized their Gods.... you owe me something for that LOL )

LASTLY: The moral burden remains TenQ. You have lied countlessly, forged a statement I did not say, put it in inverted comma and attributed it to me. On principle, I would not have engagement with you on religion. This even follows from Apostle Paul's teachings that Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” [/] 1 Cor. 15:33 You are a bad company and would not want you to corrupt my manners. Is it so difficult a request to ask?

Abdulgaffar22:
Kindly tell us how the two misconceptions due to insufficient knowledge different from each other



Yes, it has always been a sphere and God did not change its shape. But people misconceived it to be flat

Similarly, God has always known to BLESS an innocent and righteous soul and God did not change His character. But Christians misconceived the character of God by believing that God can put an innocent and righteous soul under a divine CURSE (Galatians 3:13)



Yes ! This is because NOTHING SEEMS TO HAVE CHANGED since the Crucifixion, both in the Christian and non-Christian worlds. If, according to Christianity, Jesus crucifixion really atoned for the sins of the sinful humanity originated from the disobedience of Adam and his wife then, after the crucifixion; Did tendency to commit sin stop to pass on to the children being born by Christian parents ? Was the punishment prescribed for the Sin abolished ? Did those who believed in Jesus Christ as the ‘Son of God’, if they were women, stop to have painful childbirth (Genesis 3:16) ? Did the believing men start earning their livelihood without exerting manual labour (Genesis 3:17-19) ? If the answer to all of these questions were to be ‘yes,’ then of course there would be some justification in seriously contemplating the Christian philosophy of Sin and Atonement. But Alas, the answer to all these questions are no, no, no and no.
Therefore, If nothing seems to have changed since the Crucifixion, both in the Christian and non-Christian worlds, then what would now be the effect or benefit of sin atonement ?

Lukuluku69:
Did you see the Black stone mentioned in the Quran?

Lukuluku69:
Bros do this below

1. Quote the Text of the Quran in relation to the Kaaba.

2. Quite the Hadith you have in relation to the Black Stone.

Don't jumble them together. Do that and let us see. Leave the commentaries for those are human minds. They could be right and they could be wrong.

AntiChristian:
Paul too was a slave of the same master!

Abdulgaffar22:
Are you trying to say that misconception of the ancient people concerning the shape of the Earth was caused by God (by making the Earth to look flat in their eyes) and not caused by their incomplete knowledge ?

Again, are you trying to say that misconception of the evolutionists concerning the origin of man was caused by God (by making human to resemble Africa Apes) and not caused by their incomplete knowledge ?

Don't you know that allowing Jesus to be crucified, despite all his fervent cries and prayers in three different consecutive times (Matthew 26:36-44) in the Garden of Gethsemane is a big slap on the face of God Almighty.

It is totally IRRATIONAL for an innocent, righteous and beloved SON of a merciful and omnipotent FATHER to be under the CURSE of the same father !!!

A good Father is naturally known to always BLESS and never to CURSE his own righteous and beloved son for any reason whatsoever;

Even Paul knew very well that it is IRRATIONAL to believe that Jesus was ACCURSED by God. This is the reason why he contradicts himself by saying as follows;

"Therefore, I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus ACCURSED !” (1st Corinthians 12:3).

Yet the ONLY WAY for Jesus not to become "accursed" was for him NOT to die on the cross since it is clearly written in the the same Bible that ANYONE that is crucified is accursed by God (Deuteronomy 21:23, Galatians 3:13).



Do you believe that God Almighty can SPEAK A LIE in order to resolve one particular problem ? Certainly not ! This is because it is naturally known for God to always SPEAK THE TRUTH and never to speak a lie for any reason whatsoever.

Now, if this is the case, why do you believe that God Almighty can put an innocent and righteous soul (like Jesus) under a CURSE in order to resolve one particular problem ?

God Almighty is naturally known to always BLESS an innocent and righteous soul just like God Almighty is naturally known to always SPEAK THE TRUTH.

If you believe that God cannot speak a lie and you believe that God can put an innocent and righteous soul under His curse, then are you not displaying double standards in your belief regarding the character of God ?

God Almighty can allow an innocent and righteous soul to suffer (i:e experience physical harm) due to one reason or the other. But God Almighty can never allow an innocent and righteous soul to fall under His curse for any reason whatsoever ! This is because God is naturally known to BLESS and never to CURSE an innocent and righteous soul.

Lukuluku69:
Leave all the dogo Turenchi you posted. Now do Two things.

1. Quote from the Text of the Quran what it say about the Kaaba and the Black Stone.

2. Quote from the Hadith.

Do the above and let us see.

( Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allaah expiates for sins

AntiChristian:
I am saying your holy spirit failed to recognize an atheist away from Muslim.

You're not guided except by the misleading spirit.

Lukuluku69:
You have a closed mind because you don't reason. You have a closed mind beacsue your views are only from the Bible. You have a closed mind because you never believed God Almighty inspired other nations of the world. You have a closed mind because Salvation is only found in the Blood of a reluctant victim.. you have a closed mind because you are a bigot. I can go on and on but I will stop here for you to ponder and reconsider.

As for your fixation with the Black Stone at the Kaaba.

My views are what the Quran and Authentic Haddith says about it and not conjectures of any man.

So, go into the Quran and the Hadith and not what one sheik or Mallam says.

TenQ:
Islamic Idolatry

For a religion who claims to practice the STRICTEST Monotheism, would it surprise you that both Mohammed AND Muslims are Idolaters?

This is a serious allegation to make if not backed up with EVIDENCE!
Let us check the meaning according to Islamic teachings.

Definition of Idolatry:
1. Secular Source (Muslim biased)
Shirk (Arabic: شرك širk) in Islam is the sin of idolatry or polytheism (i.e., the deification or worship of anyone or anything besides Allah). Islam teaches that God does not share His divine attributes with any partner.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)

2. Islamic Source
The Qur‘an teaches that whenever the love, longing, loyalty and submission which are due to Allah, are focused upon other than Him, or others along with Him, then this is shirk – idolatry; setting-up partners with Allah. For as Islam sees things, whoever loves something, desires it, values it, and centres their hopes, fears, love and loyalty around it; submitting to it independently of Allah, then this, for them, becomes a deity, a god, an object of sacrilegious worship.

https://thehumblei.com/tag/how-does-islam-define-idolatry/

3. Evidence from Allah in the Qur'an
Qur'an 39:3
“Look! [Only] exclusive faith is worthy of Allah, and those who take guardians besides Him [claiming,] ‘We only worship them so that they may bring us near to Allah.’ Allah will indeed judge between them concerning that about which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide someone who is a liar and an ingrate.”

Qur'an 109:1-6
“.....Dedicate yourself to the religion as a hanīf, and never be one of the polytheists. Never invoke besides Allah that which neither benefits you nor can do you any harm; for if you do so, then you will indeed be among the wrongdoers.”


Now, Muslims will agree that worship goes beyond bowing down to an idol. It may also involve kissing, touching or reverencing any object or thing asside Allah. Invoking an object is not necessarily verbal is it?

Now, at the Kaaba,
1. There is a stone that came from paradise which used to be white but is now BLACK (because of sins of people touching it) that Muslims on pilgrimage touch and/kiss (they dont bow down to it)
2. The stone is shaped like a Vagina of a Woman and in the pre-islamic times, women used to touch it with their menstral blood probably for fertility sake.
3. Allahs apostle said that on judgment day, this Black stone would be given eyes and mouth to speak and it will testify for or against a Muslim's sincerity while touching it.
4. The Black stone became black because it has the power to suck/remove/take upon itself the sins of Muslims.

Even though, Muslims do not bow down to this stone, THEY worship and Invoke it by
1. Ascribing the power of forgiveness of sin to it (something only Allah has power to do)
2. Touching and/or kissing it as part of their religious excercise
3. Putting their hope in the black stone as an object to intercede for them on the day of judgement.

1. According to the first definition of Idolatry,
Muslims share the divine attribute of forgiveness of sin of Allah with the black stone.
2. According to the second definition of idolatry
Whoever centres their hopes, fears, love and loyalty around an object; submitting to it independently of Allah, then this, for them, becomes a deity, a god, an object of sacrilegious worship.

Muslims center their hopes for forgiveness of sin on this black stone independently of Allah, thus the black stone becomes a deity of sacrilegious worship.

3. According to the third definition of Idolatry

According to Qur'an 39:3, if the purpose of the black stone is to get Muslims closer to Allah through the forgiveness of their sins, this is idolatry.
Also, exclusive FAITH belong only to Allah and not any object, he who therefore have faith is anything else (black stone) is an idolater.

According to Qur'an 109:1-6, Never invoke besides Allah that which neither benefits you nor can do you any harm.

But some Muslims (like Umar) invoke the black stone by touching and/kissing/pointing to it even while they claim that it neither benefits nor harm them.


Like the Yorubas ascribe Olodumare to be the Creator but worship other Deities and put their trusts in various Charms, the Nlack Stone can be said to be the Muslim's EQUIVALENT of CHARMS (invoked by touching and/or kissing)


The QUESTION:
1. Can Muslims explain on the contrary why the black stone may not be equivalent to Magical Charms?
2. Can Muslims explain WHY they point to or kiss/or touch the black stone as part of their religious activities during their pilgrimage?


References:
If any Muslim disagree with any of the assertions above, I'll be willing to provide EVIDENCES. For now, I assume that Muslims are aware and familiar with my claims.

However, I found an Islamic site that ANSWERED and PROVIDED more than enough references .

LegalWolf, keep to the Question if you know the answer. If you don't, there is no virtue in thrashing meaninglessly about.

TenQ:
REFERENCE: Islamic website


The Black Stone
13-07-2000
Question 1902

QUESTION
What's the importance of the BlackStone in Kaaba, what does represent ?

Answer
Praise be to Allah.

There are a number of ahaadeeth etc. about the Black Stone which we will quote for our brother so that he may learn from them.

1. The Black Stone was sent down by Allaah to this earth from Paradise.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).

2. The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462).

(a) Al-Mubaarakfoori said in al-Marqaah: This means, the sins of the sons of Adam who touched the stone, caused it to turn black. The hadeeth should be taken at face value, because there is no reason not to, either narrated in a report or by virtue of common sense.

(Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi, 3/525)

(b) Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: Some heretics tried to criticize this hadeeth by saying: How come the sins of the mushrikeen turned it black and the worship of the people of Tawheed did not make it white?

I answer by quoting what Ibn Qutaybah said: If Allaah had willed, that would have happened. But Allaah has caused it to be the case that black usually changes other colours and its not itself changed, which is the opposite to what happens with white.

(c) Al-Muhibb al-Tabari said: The fact that it is black is a lesson for those who have insight. If sins can have this effect on an inanimate rock, then the effect they have on the heart is greater.

See Fath al-Baari, 3/463

3. The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: “By Allaah, Allaah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944

This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, and as qawiy by al-Haafiz ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari, 3/462

(4) Touching, kissing or pointing to the Black Stone – this is the first thing to be done when starting Tawaaf, whether it is for Hajj or ‘Umrah, or voluntary Tawaaf.

It was narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that when the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Makkaah, he came to the Black Stone and touched it, then he walked to the right of it and ran three times and walked four times [around the Ka’bah].

(narrated by Muslim, 1218).

(5) The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kissed the Black Stone, and his ummah followed his lead in doing so.

It was narrated that ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: “I know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720)

(6) If a person is unable to kiss the Stone, he should touch it with his hand or something else, then he can kiss the thing with which he touched it.

(a) It was narrated that Naafi’ said: I saw Ibn ‘Umar touch the Stone with his hand then he kissed his hand. I said, I have never ceased to do this since I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) do it.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1268)

(b) It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.

(Narrated by Muslim, 1275).

(7) If a person is unable to do the above, then he can point to it with his hand and say “Allaahu akbar”.

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say “Allaahu akbar.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987).

( Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allaah expiates for sins

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Touching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.”

(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 959. This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi and as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/664). Al-Dhahabi agreed with him).

It is not permissible for a Muslim to annoy other Muslims at the Stone by hitting or fighting. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that the Stone will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity, which is not the case when a person touches it by disturbing the slaves of Allaah.

And Allaah knows best.





https://www.google.com/amp
/s/islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/1902

Cc:


If you are not sure, you needn't respond.

The Question again:
The QUESTION:
1. Can Muslims explain on the contrary why the black stone may not be equivalent to Magical Charms of Idolaters ?
2. Can Muslims explain WHY they point to or kiss/or touch the black stone as part of their religious activities during their pilgrimage?

Thank you sirs!

Kobojunkie:
Considering Jesus Christ informed His followers that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church, I believe that means that His Church instead consists of those who enter into the Kingdom of God through the Narrow gate which leads to True Life as opposed to those who enter into the Kingdom of God through the Broad gate which leads to destruction- the Gate of Hell.

Lighthouse50:
Are these sets of people chosen by GOD Alone or we have been given the power to convert men. Reason is REV 13 VS 8 Says that EVERYONE WILL WORSHIP THE BEAST EXCEPT THOSE WHOSE NAMES HAS BEEN WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH WOULD BE SAVED.

Abdulgaffar22:
There was a time when all the people of the world believed that Earth is flat in shape due to HOW IT APPEAR PHYSICALLY TO THEIR SENSE OF SIGHT. Yet the Earth is not flat in shape but spherical

Now suppose God sent a prophet to this ancient people . And it was written in a book given to this prophet as follows;

"That they said ( in boast) :Earth is flat in shape. But the Earth is not flat in shape, BUT SO IT WAS MADE TO APPEAR TO THEM. They have no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety, the earth is not flat in shape but spherical".

Based on this fact, Please can we say God Almighty deceived this people into thinking that Earth is flat ? Can we say God stoop to the level of deception by making the Earth to look as being flat in shape IN THE EYES OF THESE ANCIENT PEOPLE?

Another analogy is the case of evolution. Evolutionists believe that human being evolved from great African apes due to vague resemblance between the physical appearance and the DNA of these two species .
Now if God says ; "Human being did not evolve from apes. BUT SO IT WAS MADE TO APPEAR TO THEM"

Can we say God stoop to the level of deception by making the the DNA and physical appearance of apes and human being to look alike in the EYES OF THESE EVOLUTIONISTS ?

All these are not deception on the part of God but MISCONCEPTION DUE TO INCOMPLETE KNOWLEDGE on the part of this ancient people and on the part of evolutionists.

Similar thing occur on the issue of Jesus crucifixion. Almost all the people of the earth including both the Jews and Christians believed that Jesus was crucified due to their INCOMPLETE KNOWLEDGE about what really happened.

This is the reason why Allah says;
"and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with NO CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE, but only conjecture to follow (Qur'an 4:157).

Therefore, Allah's statement "but so it was made to appear to them" that Jesus was crucified is NOT DECEPTION on the part of Allah but MISCONCEPTION DUE TO INCOMPLETE KNOWLEDGE ON THE PART OF THOSE WHO WITNESSED THE EVENT.

Lukuluku69:
Are you Kobojunkie ni?

Yes or No?

As for your questions in that thread, they are not poser but conjecture from your depraved minds.

No point answering someone with a closed mind. Nothing will be gained rather a waste of time.

AntiChristian:
See how holy spirit confused you now!
Na every Tomiwa, Dike and Haruna that attack Christianity be Muslim?

Better make you and your false spirit shut up now.

elated177:
So, you agree with me that no worshipper of Satan or the demons is part of the Body of the Messiah, his Ekklesia?

elated177:
TenQ, didn't you twist the parable of the sower here. Do you believe that it is place of the messenger to convert his hearer? Isn't that the role of the Set-apart Spirit?

elated177:
Go through your own assertions and you will see you how you manipulate Scriptures.

elated177:
Do you agree with me that simply because they call whatever it is they call church doesn't mean it is the Body of the Messiah?

Lukuluku69:
Which pattern are you talking about, what question did you put forth?

If you want to pose any question, why not open a Thread and pose your question and itemised it as always and let people give their opinion?

What I did before you shuk mouth was my observation based on what Jesus said in the Bible and you are the one coming with your usual itemization of your questions.

I have read your post and opinion here for at least 2-3years, Baba you are one deluded person. My trying to engage you if is simply to see if you can be weaned from your delusions.

Someone asked above if you are both dull and blind, I will add that you are deaf too.

Your case is beyond redemption when you can open your mouth and say fking your neighbor wife can be withing your right if you have a conscience switch.

MandelaLives:
Source: https://punchng.com/nigerias-poverty-exceeds-world-bank-projection-five-states-lead/

elated177:
Can the "church" also be referred to as the "Body of the Messiah"?

Can number two be found in the Scriptures?

Claiming doesn't equate to actually being part of the Ekklesia, don't you agree?

Lighthouse50:
Are these sets of people chosen by GOD Alone or we have been given the power to convert men. Reason is REV 13 VS 8 Says that EVERYONE WILL WORSHIP THE BEAST EXCEPT THOSE WHOSE NAMES HAS BEEN WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH WOULD BE SAVED.

Tobdek:
I'm an atheist. Something strange happened to me today and I can't stop thinking about it.

Someone mistakenly sent me airtime this morning. He called me to resend it because he wanted to send it to his father. A while later, he called me to thank me and gave the phone to his father who thanked me profusely and prayed for me. His father told me that he was an ifa priest from Ile ife.He told me to go and buy pure water and call him back in exactly three minutes. I decided not to but I was curious to hear what he wanted to say.

I called him and to my surprise, this man told me my surname! It felt so strange. He told me to ask for three things I want. He asked me if I had gotten the pure water, I told him no and he said I should go and buy it and call him back. I don't know if he's a scammer or a real priest. This has never happened to me before.

Cc Hahn
Hopefullandlord
Seun
Martinez39s
Johnydon22
Lordreed
Hardmirror
Pansophist

elated177:
You twist and misinterpret the Scriptures a lot. Wow!

elated177:
Can the "church" also be referred to as the "Body of the Messiah"?

Can number two be found in the Scriptures?

Claiming doesn't equate to actually being part of the Ekklesia, don't you agree?

elated177:
How you try to "bulldoze" the Scriptures eeh! Wow!

elated177:
TenQ, what is the " church"?

Kobojunkie:
1. True children of God that exhibit none of the signs which God said they will have, and they have not even the light which Jesus Christ made clear cannot be hidden?

Jesus Christ did not speak of gifts and graces being different for those who belong to Him. So, how come your description of those who belong to Jesus Christ does not in any way or form match that decreed by Jesus Christ Himself?

2. What part would that be? Where did Jesus Christ state that there are parts for each to do? According to Jesus Christ instead, ALL those who belong to Him will do the same works He did and more. So are you saying Jesus Christ is wrong in insisting that the same work and parts await all those who belong to Him?

3. The parable of the talents in no way supports this claim regarding the parts which you make here. And as Jesus Christ explained, the lesson of that parable is instead to teach that only those who use what they are given will have more given to them in the Kingdom of God - Matthew 25 vs 29. So please, let's stop deviating by mentioning parables that have no connection to the issue.

vannessa7:
Bismillah also mean I give authority to almighty God over everything I do, if one makes it an habit to say it in every situation it is very powerful from my experience, stay blessed

Abdulgaffar22:
Bible recorded that the number of Jesus apostles was somehow fixed to be twelve (Matthew 10:2-7, 19:28, Revelation 21:14). Therefore, when Judas Iscariot fell out and there was need for replacement and restoration of original twelve, then one would expect the divine plan to unfold in such a way that original apostles would be pre-informed by Jesus (pbuh) to exercise patience and wait till someone like Paul repents. But instead of waiting for Paul, Matthias was chosen to replace Judas under the act of divine guidance (Acts 1:20-26). This proves again that apostleship of Paul was not even recognized in heaven. Yet Paul repeatedly called himself an apostle of true Jesus Christ at the beginning of most of his letters.