₦airaland Forum

slave (sl v) KEY

NOUN:
1.One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
2.One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence:

nuclearboy:
^^ Tonye:

Most times I really don't get what you people think I am. I can be really gruff but I do not see Christ or His apostles rubbing people's backs in the Bible. If you want, I can put together a list of curses and "cursing annoyance times" in the Bible and you know as well as I do that God started it in Eden. Whist satan was Eve's friend, God was her worst nightmare. However, that was "in mouth" and we know the true friend "in reality". Its still the same today!

I'm sorry but I have no apologies if I see someone turning God's Word and I lay a pipe on their backside.

Its easier to apologise to an un-bel because they do not know and have not what we claim to have. What excuse should I give a christian? Do you forget judgment starts "here"? Do you forget "our" judgement will be harsher? I am a friend BECAUSE I tell the truth, not because I want you to feel good.

This is where you keep getting yourself wrong always, did Jesus really apologise to the un-believers? certainly No! atleast my scriptures doesnt think so. no little wonder u'll pat a sinner while lay a pipe on your beloved brother which gets them laffing and mocking at "our" incessant dramas.

Gat me wondering if you are the descents of the mosaics who will rather whip their brothers for failing God's law, while Jesus will certainly pray for an err-ing to stand after a fall. gruffness indeed

nuclearboy:
^^ The reply you seek is actually simple. Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law. A psalm (number 22) is what He was reading. If you read that psalm, I think it likely you'd be suprised at the parallelness of the psalm and the experience of Jesus on the cross. It discusses the Father turning His back on the Son because of the weight of sin and then in detail, shows the prophecy being fulfilled

[1] scorned by men and despised by the people
[2] hurling insults at Him - if you can, come down etc
[3] they have pierced my hands and feet
[4] they divide my garments
[5] this is the suffering of the "afflicted" one i.e. He that carries the affliction of all
[6] Posterity will be told about Him as indeed it is today and He will be celebrated forever

Many un-believers and indeed many ignorant Christians have made a lot of noise about the cry on the cross because they have no understanding of the matter.

Truth is that Jesus was acting out a script which He was fully aware of. Whist that didn't stop or reduce the pain of beating, humiliation, cruxificion, stabbing on the Cross etc, HE STILL RETAINED ENOUGH PRESENCE OF MIND THROUGH ALL THE PAIN in the body, to recite the exact prophecy made over a thousand years earlier that He was going through right there on the cross. And He went through with it all the way to the end of it. Note that the death (final event of the experience) was His Victory and is the reason why He is celebrated today.

Seeing as you have now gotten your "response that have sense" as you requested, I hope you will drop your aggression. I thought it was another "my religion is better than yours issue". You've said no[size=15pt] and thus I here apologise for thinking you to be another of those morons that come looking for a fight all the time when they can't handle punches. Again, apologies![/size]

One good reason i love and have respect for this bro. epitome of a true Christ-like!  [size=5pt]even though i feel like fighting him sometimes he's still the best![/size] 

Zikkyy:
tithing-T you make false accusations. It will be difficult for me to respond here cos your post is loaded with lies.

I never told you I had problem with the MOG charitable activities? So what exactly are you talking about? I read my post all over again to sure.

Oga Tonye, please read my post again. Where in my post did I refer to MOGs as thieves for collecting tithe.

Again, I never said anything was obsolete. Please learn to respond to what you read.

I happy to see you only ‘think’ that Kumuyi had Matt 23:23 in mind when he made that comment.

So what is my sin? For trying to let you know the MOG should not take all the credit for the charitable contribution? Learn from Paul Tonye-t, the congregation deserves some credit.

2 Corinthians 8:1-5 (New International Version)
1And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. 3For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, 4they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the saints. 5And they did not do as we expected, but they gave themselves first to the Lord and then to us in keeping with God's will.

You are beyond teaching my friend. I believe you should go ahead and tithe you fit christ’s description. Why don’t you read that chapter from verse 1, maybe you begin to get the message. I drop some extract below.

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.[c]

15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

One thing i love about your posts is your subtlety and your unfirmness to take stands, trust me that isnt Christian-like at all.

Zikkyy if i may remind you, do you remember on several occasions especially in the thread "who says tithing is not new testamental?" you came all out to say you do not have anything biase against tithing and the next time i checked out you said the contrary. i can quote you but b4 i do so i'll love you to do so yourself.

Zikkyy:
Oga Tonye, you don start again.

At whose cost, the MOG or the congregation?

Again, who shoulder the cost?

Where MOG get money? when he no get another job

You do agree they can do better, considering the size of the collections.

Now you claimed your actions are based on Christ’s instruction, let see,

Hmmm, i want to agree with you here. You fit the description above go ahead and tithe jare

Zikkyy you comments will never seize to make me laff and laff like RTFLMLO when will you learn to approach scriptures unbiased at least for once. Why the stern obsession about these men of God, cant you guys just leave them alone and focus on other better things about life and sweet experiences in Christ.

If Adeboye or whomever uses the money contributed to his ministry to help students how is that suppose to be a problem or jealous to you,. wetin concern you. if im no give na d same u go open ya mouth abuse them like say them be una mate.

When Jesus talked about giving tithes and all other things he knew a time will come when some theives will manipulate their flocks, but for crying out loud he did not say WE WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR ACT OF COLLECTING TITHES men grow for once na what baffles me from folks like you is that you guys have the silly guts to assume that a practise that Jesus admonished should continue SHOULD BE CONSIDERED OBSOLETE simply because of nothing but your jealousies for the way God blesses these men of God

Ok take for instance, Kumuyi is a well respected and decent man of God at least every true christian knows that, and this man when asked about issues like tithing and its continuity in the new church, here is what he has to say: "I believe every scripture in the bible is given by God and is good for doctrine and teaching and i think that includes Matthew 23:23" and with a lot of points he continued buttressing.

Men like Kumuyi does not need your monies to survive or leave big, but continues in tithing and offering because nobody but Master Jesus says the "practise of tithing should not be neglected" goooosh Zikkyyy pls for once remove that shades from ya eyes they are too dark already

OK! for the sake of those reading this, i want you Zikkyy to pls inteprete this passage of the bible maybe we could learn nwa teacher!

paris10:
Why do something you have absolutely no idea about? Are you paying tithe because your Pastor say so or because you're convinced Jesus told you to do so? And why emphasis on Matt 23:23? Why dwelling on tithe and not the most important thing Jesus said in the same verse of scripture?

Why can't we just make the world a simple and better place for all to live without necessarily sounding religious. The greatest commandment of all is '[b]love [/b]your neighbour as you would yourself'. Jesus is that love, so lets preach love and leave behind this so-called religious law of old.

Don't you know that Jesus was himself born into law? When he came, he couldn't do away with it, except he be gone! Oh boy, did he not just did just that! Halleluyah!!!

Lets preach Christ (love), give to the poor and stop acting like the Pharisees who thinks they're righteous by paying tithe.

Good! now you are getting closer to where i am going

I am a Christian, sometimes a liberal sometimes a conservative now i believe If we truly confess christ then we should profess christianity where Christ is the Master and we the follower(Christ-like) and as followers it is our 'duty'and 'responsibility' to observe to do 'every single word' our 'master' says we should do. I consider it serious hypocrisy i repeat serious hypocrisy for a professed christian to select only some things he should do from the whole. If we are truly christians then we should act christ-like, we should say the things Jesus says and do the things Jesus says we should do.

Now what baffles me is for someone who calls himself a christian to come to a public forum and utter gibberish like saying that what happened in Matt.23:23 was that Jesus was speaking specifically to the Pharisees and therefore it doesnt concern us as christians. what a rubbish! OK! so if that is the new logic to approach scriptures, therefore maybe i should also consider that the turning of water to wine in cana of galilee should only be practised by the galileans afterall he did it while in galilee, i should also consider his death and resurrection to be only practised by the jews afterall he died as a jew. now does that make any sense especially for folks who calls themselves 'true' christians who are suppose to express the 'lifestyle', 'words' and 'deeds' of Jesus to the blind world.

And to add salt to the injury, ask them why they dont believe in tithing and you'll hear them say things like: because Oyedepo will use our tithes to build more varsities, because Adeboye will use our tithes to buy more jets, because Chris will use our tithes to fly more trips abroad, and am like wooow so you guys choose to disobey Jesus' instruction because of what some 'pastors' will use it to do ? how immature does it look! i thought our obligations as christians is to honor the words of Jesus irrespective of what another man try to manipulate. I have the spirit of God in me and therefore i dont believe i can be manipulated same should be for every true christian. If Jesus says 'tithing' should not be neglected then honor Jesus by giving your tithe.

The same MOGs you folks use your phalanges to type ill things about, take a look further into their lives and you'll witness testimonies of how they send tonnes of rice, beans, agricultural produces to those in need, they give scholarships to over 6000 students every session, at least i have over 40 friends benefitting from it so i know it, they pay their staffers well, some even build good houses to reside these people, now they may not be doing it very big and as expected but atleast they are trying afterall 'it was only twice' the bible recorded Jesus of feeding thousands and just a square meal for that matter. as for you guys when last did u remember to visit just a motherless home to help them out with the toiletries . case of always spotting the speck in a brothers eye when you have a whole log in your eyes. judge yourselves first before judging another.

Yes there are other issues in christianity that needs attention too, issues like brotherly love, praying anf fasting for our nation, showing mercy to our offenders, forgiving our debtors and all that, now while we try to do them we should not forget other issues behind which is exactly what Jesus said in Matt.23:23. And guess what? i do not need Jesus to say a thing twice before i know its my duty to do it, have you heard the maxim that says " a(one) word is enough for the wise'.

That reminds me where is that chief hypocrite KunleOshod , its sad to see how he has spoiled the minds of good christians against the words of Jesus atleast not Tonye's word . For me every true christian tithes! God bless you and that's if you want the blessings

paris10:
, Just need someone to tell me otherwise, is it me alone that thinks this tithe thing is getting more attention that it actually deserves? Jesus only made mention of tithe throughout his time on earth once (that shows how insignificant tithe is)

Abeg make una tell me o, does that mean if you don't pay tithe, no heaven be that? Na wetin concern me most be that. If the answer is no, then sr*w tithe then.

Paris100,

I dont know if i'll make heaven if i continue in my tithing neither do i know if it will lead me to hell if i dont tithe, but one thing i know is Jesus opened his mouth to rebuke the Pharisees (like you, me, nuclearboy, KunleOshob, Image123, et al) for choosing to honor some part of God's word at the expense of the other.

The pharisees took tithing so serious like it was everything about life and godliness, and here was Jesus saying no no no there are still other important areas like Justice for the oppressed, mercy for our offenders, faithfulness in our service to God, these things we ought to do and also as we do them we should not neglect the act of tithing too. is that not what Matt.23:23 says. The words of Jesus carry life and has the power to reconcile man to God, maybe if i continue in my act, i could be justified like Abraham's 'simple' obedience was counted to him for righteousness. have you heard the song "trust and obey"?

Greedy and stingy folks who will rather eat up their bread and seed and turn back to accuse MOGs for their woes and afflictions they are suffering in the body of Christ. how pathetic!  Maybe i should even quote my favorite verse of the NT again sef

nuclearboy:
[b]Tonye-T doesn't know that Jesus lived UNDER THE LAW and that the new covenant didn't begin until the Cros[/b]s. For that reason, yes, the Pharisees were supposed to pay tithes since they were under the old covenant. Yet and as stated already, even his words were ironic. What we are again seeing here is the spirit in the pharisees which stuck to traditions of men rather than the truth of God.

Same excuses stingy folks give for evading to honor a simple instruction even when said from King Jesus. If you say Matt.23:23 were all written b4 his death and therefore is invalid, maybe i should also assume all the things Jesus said before his death are invalid too. uhh gibberish born out of desperation to disobey Jesus and his words - i cry!!

bee444:
@tonye-t, You've just murdered the Bible!! Shame on you! Where on earth did you find this your blasphemous version of Matt 23:23 or even the Bible you just quoted from? Are you for real. Jesus never advised the Pharisees to tithe! Did you go to school at all? If yes, were you taught Figures of speech? Jesus's statement in that verse of scripture was an irony.

My advice, always read the preceding verses of scriptures and don't forget to read the subsequent or succeeding verses or chapters too. Study to show yourself approved the Bible says.

I saw the version at your backyard where you neglected wisdom and her treasuries for criticism

paris10:
Don't just want you to deviate from the main focus of this post; JUSTICE to the poor!!!. You're just one the stereotypical brainwashed Nigerian Church goer that leaves everything to their Pastors to decide.

Nuff said Sis!

brother stop putting up makeups, your intro-post is already a pointer to why you hate these MOG. And its nothing more than because they collect tithes and offerings. Else i wonder why someone will come up here to burn up bytes with the topic " Oyakhilome, Oyedepo, Ashimolowo, Jet Pastor (adeboye) Et Al Are Shameless!" 

I have said it over and over again,these MOG are not the problem in christendom, the problem is you  , the problem is me, the problem is everyone who feels too lazy to pick up a biblos and check out spiritual facts for themselves. As far as i can remember, i have never read, heard Pastor Chris preached anything outside the context of the holy biblos, i rarely even heard him say anything about donation or building offerings or what not. 

The same for Adeboye even though i dont expect these Men to be infallible. Ok! Sometime early 2009, Pastor Kumuyi withdrew a massive publication of one of his books  *cant recall the name exactly* and when asked why? he apologized that he wrote the book without the inspiration of the Holy spirit and thus may not fulfill its very essence, i was like wooow what a lesson, so even this men know they make mistakes becasue i was even spotting some errs in the said book before the withdrawal, I have seen & heard Pastor Chris do the same too about the use of a greek term in the bible *word withheld*. 

But when it come to nairaland, you see folks who dont study scriptures thoroughly come up to talk gibberish, 

-Else why would someone say that because these pastors buy jets therefore they must be thieves, when the best they could do is to take good time and listen to the messages of the men and compare it with scriptures for validity.

-Else why would someone consider the practise of tithing as evil even at the glare of scriptures even in the NT, when you ask these folks why they think tithing is evil they'll say because Jesus abolished the law, ok! so was tithing a law ? did tithing ever begin with the law? who practised tithing first [Abraham (b4 the law was given) OR Moses (during the law) ]

- Most times i wonder the state of our minds when we criticize these men,

when they perform healing, we are quick to call them demons forgetting Jesus was called the biggest 'demon' too, while His essence was still intact as is theirs

when they talk with Politicians, we call them sycophants, forgetting Jesus ate and dined with the biggest of thieves in his time, while His essence was still intact as is theirs

when they buy good cars and jets, we are quick to call them rogues, whereas Jesus rode on the best donkey with the people heralding their garments. I wonder how else we want them to live again! You guys are stingy, others are not, and so these men of God are blessed as was other pastors in the bible yet na una weh no dey give na im e come dey pain pass. dem go continually dey chop good money while una go their clap for dem indirectly 

1 Cor 9
13 Don't you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar?

14 In the same way, [size=16pt]the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel[/size].

Period!

paris10:
Hey my friend, I wasn't referring to Bible versions, just pointing out what Jesus meant in Matt 23:23. Like I clearly stated, I wouldn't want to quote the Bible to cumber this post. This is my final reply to you, don't wanna get into any sort of argument with you.

Be blessed.

typical of a free-thinker. they poo and run! 

paris10:
Now I know that people are just as ignorant as themselves! Matt 23:23, ' "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former''., Stop quoting out of context!

How come the Mathew you quoted is totally different from the one I just quoted? Let me lecture you on what Jesus actually mean by the highlighted words above, A figure of speech is a use of word that diverges from its normal meaning, such as simile, metaphor or personification. Jesus's statement in Matt 23:23 was an Irony! It was totally a sarcastic gesture from Jesus towards the scribes and Pharisees.

A typical Nigeria example would be, '' You give that policeman egunje, why you no kuku give that custom man too make we 4 know say you complete the bribery thing. You should have done what you did for the police man without neglecting the former!, This is called sarcasm!

That boldened part actually got me LMBO at least i finally found me-self an intelligent ~~,  why should i quote from the same version as you did [size=5pt]come to think of it has he quoted any scriptures so far?[/size]

my friend, Jesus did not quote that passage as a figure of speech (be it simile, meta4 or whatever) he was straight on it, he rebuked the hypocrites for trying to put so much emphasis on things that mattered almost little at the expense of things that mattered.

The pharisees where known to be keen observers of the commandments of God (law) and this they did in a detailed matter that they began to add their own doctrines called the "traditions of men", for instance they paid tithe to look 'righteous' before men but not to fulfill its very essense which is to honor God.

with time they continued doing those things that men see with the physical eyes to gain respect and honor, but to the detriment of important issues like caring for needy person (mercy), fighting for the oppressed (justice), and following steadfast in their relationship with God (faithfulness), when Jesus saw this he rebuked them for wanting to look good by giving tithes, but refused to give attention to areas that mattered too hence that passage

lets see it again (ok! for the sake of respect i'll quote your version)

so you see, he did not condemn tithe as a practise, rather he condemned their hypocrisy[pretense] and quest for appearing righteous outside at the expense of the inside man. (you need to see the translation of this passage in the version i use - self expanatory) cheers! 

matoyeh:
Ok, What do I do when my salary is 25k and my transport is almost 15k monthly, my 2 square meals is 12k (too xpensive) how do i pay my tithes.
if i remove 1k from this money, i will definitely suffer it before the end of the month

Pastor AIO:
Peter 4: 17

Judgement must begin with the house of God so let us examine these so-called houses of God.  RCCG is found wanting.  It will be thrown in the lake of fire where there will be weeping and gnashing or teeth.

The topic of this thread is whether RCCG is obliged to return the stolen funds.  

It is a known fact that these churches keep detailed records of donations and tithes (how else do they know how to ignore those of their laity that are not keeping up with payments).  In fact it ought to be no problem at all to get the records of all the contributions of Akingbola and Ibru and the mighty host of jagudas that infest that so called church.  

Stolen property is stolen property and must be returned to the rightful owners.  

God does not need to steal to do his good work.  

Whatever orphans or charities that RCCG claims to donate to (which I think is utter rubbish and their donations are not more than nominal)  I'm sure that God can help them without causing more distress elsewhere in the country.

meyri:
Tithe is so overrated and old fashioned. Giving is supposed to done out of love and generosity not out of compulsion. Abeg the man should keep his money!

really new fashoned i guess