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 Christianity Etc › Re: Atheist Holy Day by Tonyet1(m): 10:34am On Dec 15, 2009 |
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=363977.msg5109496#msg5109496 date=1260796754]Back to his personal life, last time I checked the topic of religion wasn't anybodys father's property. We can all discuss religion however we want but when it comes to its reflections on the personal life, one has a right not to indulge you. And such a decision should be respected.[/quote]The next time i hear you talk about Oyakhilome, Oyedepo, Adeboye, Kumuyi and the jets and jeeps they drive in ,believe me i will rip off your phalanges. cowards are never far fetched from the vineyard of despression! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Know A Fake Pastor In 5min by Tonyet1(m): 10:28am On Dec 15, 2009 |
noetic15:Wisdom! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Know A Fake Pastor In 5min by Tonyet1(m): 10:26am On Dec 15, 2009 |
KunleOshob:Hmmm i see , by teaching and believing in the GNOSTIC DOCTRINES interesting. you need some foundational class Mr.Kunleoshod i just pray you know the implications of your desperations and inclinations to the gnostic faith and teaching and before you spread that disease on innocent christians here let me remind you Gal 1:8 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 10:03am On Dec 15, 2009 |
@KunleOshod, Point of correction, the biblos scrolls were written in Aramaic and Hebrew languages and later translated to greek when the greek nation overthrew the persian empire  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:54am On Dec 15, 2009 |
JeSoul:Hey Jesoul my sister, i read alittle of psychology and i know just the right what you're trying to do by the bolden letters ^^, the last time we both discussed you're really proved to me that "of a truth even a supposedly "matured" christians could really get angry and in course spit rubbish from there mouths, however i wont decline to still affirm my stands here. 1st: . Its in my bellicose nature to stand any crowd regardless of the size and stand firm to say what i feel is right 2nd: I use to be in the underground (religion section) to learn from peeps about some issues in christianity, and ignorantly i have been taking in things unknown to me were unhealthy here and yeah some of your posts used to be encouraging and i complimented you for them howbeit i discovered some as errors and beckoned on you for clerifications instead of coming out to say what you mean/meant you rather choose to flee maybe for fear of being caught and funny enough your recent posts have not changed neither. I kindly appeal unto you as brethren to pls write why you feel tithing is wrong, and maybe the "DECEIVED" will learn from "HER" and turn back to call "HIM" a scam. simple! and not call me unfair names. thank you 3rd: i didnt come to nairaland, religion section in particular to gain any accolades/ honor from fellows here, besides i hate been praised because it sprouts pride and undue honor on someone. I rather came here to speak out what i feel is the truth and i make references from the scriptures to butress my opinion and anyone who feel am wrong is free to also say why you feel i m wrong and not tag someone as folly/foolish. i rather choose to be the last man standing who will be hated with all hatred that there could be. Luke 6:25-26 Let anyone who feel i am wrong about tithing come up to say why it is wrong from the scriptures. Simple! i wonder why this seem too difficult.  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:28am On Dec 15, 2009 |
KunleOshob:Tithing - what did Jesus and Paul say? >>>Matthew. 23:23 - "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.NIV Recall He(Jesus) didn’t say woe unto tithes, but rather woe unto the teachers of the law and Pharisees. Meaning Jesus criticized the Pharisees and never criticized tithe, because the tithe they gave was done hypocritically. Jesus said, practise mercy, practise justice, practise faith and also do not neglect to pracitise tithe (matt.23:23 -Hebrew-English paraphrased bible). Now some Christian sect believe this scriptures was actually Jesus’ seal against the practice of tithe. Looking critically does the scripture look like tithing was abolished? one should ask this question, if Jesus abolished tithing on the ground of the law, therefore mercy should be seem as a law as well as justice and faith and they all should be noted as abolished, afterall he spoke of these things in that scriptures as he did tithe (that is, as laws). Today Christians argue that Paul who is noted as the most significant apostle did not preach about tithe, now let us see. >>>1 Cor.16: 2 –Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.KJV In Hebrew, the term ‘collection’ as used in this passage is same as what Moses taxed the Israelite males above 20years old in the wilderness called the ma’aser terumah (which was the tithing based on contribution for the temple of God which Paul referred to as Jerusalem in his time) and it was given to help the temple building in the wilderness based on how God prospered each individual)–Ex.25:3-9. My candid appeal is for bible students to read the bible with more than a translation/ version so one could have a clearer understanding of terms in the biblos and how they connect the Old and New testaments together. Scholars even discovered that Titus was appointed the office of collecting this contribution even while Paul was in prison (2 Cor.8.). Now would it be wise to say that because KJV, NKJV, NIV and some contemporary anglos-saxons versions of the biblos never explicitly termed the word ‘collection’ as contribution tithe (Ma’aser terumah) meant Paul never practiced tithe same with his followers? I guess not. Maybe this verse will help >>>Daniel. 9:2 - . . .I Daniel understood by the books[biblos]” which means it took Daniel more than a book[biblo] to understand the sayings of God (prophesy) Do i still need to forever hold my peace? Ok Kunle my friend, lets see it this way, lets say i am newly born-again and dont know anything about tithe/tithing and you're called up to teach me, pls in some few post what will you tell me to convince me that tithe is wrong. that's all am asking you, and not calling for insults and mud-slingings, they're absolutely unnecessary! God bless you! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Know A Fake Pastor In 5min by Tonyet1(m): 5:29pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
KunleOshod stop your BABBLINGS here, come back and finish your scores down here like a real christian should |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Know A Fake Pastor In 5min by Tonyet1(m): 5:23pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
@sonofpeace dont mind mr.Explosive, i wonder what he is exploding  Explosive:goosh, i think i have just found myself another KunleOshod - peeps who just lift passages and make baseless ascertions, lest u misinform peeps here let me correct your wrong assumption 1. Did u read that passage of John.16:25 in KJV b4 misquoting yourself, KJV said it this way,. . . this things have i spoken unto you in proverbs " Proverbs are hidden secrets, if you connect the both, it means he spake to them about his connection to God in such a way that "they will hear but will never come to the understanding" and besides go back and read that chapter from the start maybe you'll understand better that he was actually teaching them about his ascension and not his Oneness with his Father. for the latter he did at several times in several places. 2. Safe for time, i would have taught you about the flame of fire and its significance, OBAMA and the wrong passage you are quoting to butress rubbish. Why cant christians just read the bible better rather than mixing pathetic Watchtower articles. The HolySpirit was given to teach us all things and not some dotty biblos  expect me 2mrw when i'l come teach you what you think u know but dont know |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 5:03pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
Ogajim, silence to an insult doesnt make me a weak person, u r pushing real hard with insults and i'll be plsd to inform u that i could play that game very well like snippers do. howbeit i left that age long while you were still a suckling. pls be matured with your post k? thanx bro! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 5:00pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
Speak now or forever remain silent! the jury said it and not me, now i know how tiny 'ur thoughts could really be, cant you just come out and write everything you know about tithing and your opinion of it as a scam rather than moving helter scelter like a baby. real men talk and dont babble! and just a notice, how come Ogajim reappeared the same day i came up and after kkunleOshod did, the last time Ogajim and Zikkyy wrote was when i left some weeks back.  comon KunleOshod stop being a coward and brace up like a real man should and write something. dont tell me you are scared abi u r d REAL SCAM! at least i have done mine today KUNLEOSHOD I CHALLENGE YOU (mr.Anti-tither) TO WRITE ALL U KNOW ABOUT THE TITHE SCAM or forever remain silent here  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Know A Fake Pastor In 5min by Tonyet1(m): 1:14pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
good question, i mean very good question |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Are Aliens Real? Religious Implications by Tonyet1(m): 1:11pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
The Alien debate again. ok! Ok lets see, during one of NASA's publications in 2002, it was believed that Aliens are creatures with skins with features like everyother animals (meaning they see, smell, walk, touch, breathe) safe for their uniqueness like a tiger's features are different from a crocodile's, howbeit they both fall in the class of animals. Just like its typical of animals to run from humans, so i believe they (aliens) do too. while we interpret it as intellectual study/ their researches. hmmm well. do i believe in aliens, i will rather choose to be indifferent |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Atheist Holy Day by Tonyet1(m): 12:53pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=363977.msg5108786#msg5108786 date=1260789364]Your brain matter must be leaking through your nose Who here has ever presented it as obligatory to answer any question as regards your personal life?[/quote]Still dumb as i left him some months back, how come religion thread will not find peace from the hilarious posts of 'mr. napkin atheist' who wouldnt let Oyedepo, Adeboye and their private lives to just be. nonsense  [quote author=Tudór link=topic=363977.msg5108786#msg5108786 date=1260789364]Are you so poverty striken that you cannot afford a dictionary to access the meaning of atheism and agnosticism?[/quote]Maybe i will also need to consult my sleek dictionary to access the meaning of Mr.Tudor and his silly posts [quote author=Tudór link=topic=363977.msg5108786#msg5108786 date=1260789364]Anyone seeking for my personal opinions can read thru my previous posts. I don't shy away neither do I apologise for my views.[/quote]hmmm, interesting, no wonder arrogant posts will never be found wanting at the door post of arrogant peeps Speak up or forever remain silent! i didnt say it, the jury said so . Pathetic  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Know A Fake Pastor In 5min by Tonyet1(m): 12:42pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
Explosive:Lets see who is the fake pastor, you or them 1. Jesus said I and the Father are one - John.10:30, I will send another comforter [allon parakleeton]- meaning another of like kind allon(God), (John.14:16) now doesnt it sound it they all are one, For there are 3 who bears witness in heaven (1Jn.5:  2. Who is the true prophet of our generation? is there really one true prophet again today? the office of a prophet is a calling,like the apostles and teachers (1.cor.12) and anyone can assume this office if the light of grace is shed 3. Even a nursery kid will tell you we are in the last days, what is the big deal there? 4. Before you misinterpret scriptures, let me correct you, bible never warned against a woman preaching, it rather advised women to keep silent in the church, silent could mean being under the authority of your husband, never assuming any office without the approval of your husband (well thats a topic of its own altogether) afterall wasnt it a woman who proclaimed the risen christ (preaching the gospel) and by the way, check this out, if God is a spirit, and bible says there is neither a female or male in the spirit, therefore doenst it mean, God sees no one as male nor female, but spirit beings. hmmmmm 5. Forgive me to say that YOU ARE A FALSE CHRISTIAN , how dare you assume the number of years remaining for the coming of the christ, when the christ himself said he himself knoweth not the day or season. nonsense (matt.24:36 )6. hmmm, OBAMA? interesting, dont knwo his significance too, maybe your explanations can help 7. But i thought Genesis 3:6 said and she ate, (isnt 'ate' the past tense of 'eat') hmmm interesting also 8. Photographs of the pillar of fire? never seen nor heard of it 9. Yes a fake will never know he is fake until he's told. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: How To Know A Fake Pastor In 5min by Tonyet1(m): 12:11pm On Dec 14, 2009 |
surued:hmmm is there really a fixed number of days one must pray to get a revelation? interesting And again, what is wrong with counselling, didnt Jesus ask |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Atheist Holy Day by Tonyet1(m): 10:58am On Dec 14, 2009 |
[quote author=Tudór link=topic=363977.msg5108290#msg5108290 date=1260783525]I wonder why deep sight is going on demanding answers to dumb questions like 'what is atheism', 'what is agnosticsm' and bla bla bla like its his birthright. If you're dying for definitions invest in a bloody dictionary and educate yourself. And to questions of 'what it means to your personal life', people have a right not to discuss personal issues, don't they?[/quote]Ok but they have the right to discuss others personal issues, rubbish. why cant you atleast help answer the question, ask me about christianity and my opinion and i'll be sure glad to do so, i wonder why atheists shy away. hmmmm welll |
| Christianity Etc › Re: God's Glory Reigns At Shioh 2009 Even At Satalite Viewing Centres, by Tonyet1(m): 10:54am On Dec 14, 2009 |
A woman lame for 6yrs now can walk hmmm interesting. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:57am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithe – Why should I give when the clergies make a mess of it? Just because a thing is been abused greatly doesn’t mean it is bad from its origin, let God do the judging, while we do the obeying . won’t it be nicer if we allow the wisest do the judging? (just a question or let’s say a suggestion). For God has His own way of dealing with the false teachers and thieves. >>>Jer 23:1-2 1 "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!" declares the LORD. 2 Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: "Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done," declares the LORD And Again Jesus taught in Matt 13:29 29 "'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds (false teachers), you may root up the wheat (good teachers) with them.NIV When we finally understand that a tithe is a spiritual thing and an ordinance that can be discerned by only spiritual people, the sooner we will understand that tithing is a principle God wants us to grasp and be blessed with. For we are taught to “practice mercy, practice faithfulness, practice justice, and do not neglect to practice tithe” – Matt.23:23 (Hebrew-English paraphrased version) Tithe will forever remain relevant for the bible has made known. God bless you! |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:56am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithe – An Injunction or Suggestion Please Read verse 7, but 8 very carefully and prudently, for an unbiased heart will tell itself the truth. 2 Cor 9:7-10 7 Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed; The term ‘injunction’ doesn’t mean the same thing as the term ‘compulsion’. Maybe our dictionary will do us good here. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:55am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithe – can it be substituted for freewill offering? Often atimes I hear people talk of choosing rather to give to the poor than give the church their due benevolence. Let’s see how the scriptures answer this one, Matt 26:6-13 6 While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, 7 a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. 8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. 9[u] "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor." [/u] 10 Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 11 The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. With this passages I will class the so called-righteous Christians into verse 9,for they’ll rather chose to give to the poor and widows their offerings than give to the church, howbeit Jesus’ reply to them in verse 10 will forever remain supreme. Therefore let us give to God what is due God (Matt. 22:21), give to Caesar (beggars, poor, widows) what belong to them. In the Old Testament administrative tithing, Moses’ commanded them to set aside the tithes in the 3rd year and give specifically unto the strangers, widows and orphans. Simple!. An error it will be to try substituting the one for the other. Let freewill offering be given as freewill offering, and tithe be given as tithe, they have different names thus serve different purposes. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:53am On Dec 14, 2009 |
[U]Tithing - what did Jesus and Paul say?[/U] >>>Matthew. 23:23 - "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.NIV Recall He(Jesus) didn’t say woe unto tithes, but rather woe unto the teachers of the law and Pharisees. Meaning Jesus criticized the Pharisees and never criticized tithe, because the tithe they gave was done hypocritically. Jesus said, practise mercy, practise justice, practise faith and also do not neglect to pracitise tithe (matt.23:23 -Hebrew-English paraphrased bible). Now some Christian sect believe this scriptures was actually Jesus’ seal against the practice of tithe. Looking critically does the scripture look like tithing was abolished? one should ask this question, if Jesus abolished tithing on the ground of the law, therefore mercy should be seem as a law as well as justice and faith and they all should be noted as abolished, afterall he spoke of these things in that scriptures as he did tithe (that is, as laws). Today Christians argue that Paul who is noted as the most significant apostle did not preach about tithe, now let us see. >>>1 Cor.16: 2 –Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.KJV In Hebrew, the term ‘collection’ as used in this passage is same as what Moses taxed the Israelite males above 20years old in the wilderness called the ma’aser terumah (which was the tithing based on contribution for the temple of God which Paul referred to as Jerusalem in his time) and it was given to help the temple building in the wilderness based on how God prospered each individual)–Ex.25:3-9. My candid appeal is for bible students to read the bible with more than a translation/ version so one could have a clearer understanding of terms in the biblos and how they connect the Old and New testaments together. Scholars even discovered that Titus was appointed the office of collecting this contribution even while Paul was in prison (2 Cor.8.). Now would it be wise to say that because KJV, NKJV, NIV and some contemporary anglos-saxons versions of the biblos never explicitly termed the word ‘collection’ as contribution tithe (Ma’aser terumah) meant Paul never practiced tithe same with his followers? I guess not. Maybe this verse will help >>>Daniel. 9:2 - . . .I Daniel understood by the books[biblos]” which means it took Daniel more than a book[biblo] to understand the sayings of God (prophesy) |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:51am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithing – The Priesthood Significance Through the bible, God’s relationship with man has followed a pattern and this pattern has standards that both parties must maintain for a true relationship What were this patterns?: one of such was that there must be a Priest who mediates between God and Man (read.Heb.7:17-20)Mechisedek was the first to assume this office of which Job did the same (Job.1:5), thereafter Abraham (Gen.18:20-33),Abraham’s lineage and then to Jacob’s and later to Moses and the trail followed until Jesus’s time. What made this priestly office unique was the fact that they gave offerings as a means of worship/relationship and they offered sacrifices which were meant to make atonement for sins, they taught the people how to relate with God and Man. Again, One practice the bible noted that some of these princes/priests did was the act of receiving offerings, take for example Melchisedek received offering, Aaron and the priesthoods received offerings as Moses instituted, both Jesus (Lk.7:37), Paul and Peter received offerings too. Now Melchisedek in Retrospect: Jesus was made a priest after the order of melchisedek, Jesus Christ was a priest after Melchisedek and Melchisedek received offering, what then is expected of Jesus Christ?. This order could be compared as unto Aaron (as melchisedek) and the levites (as Christ)-Heb.7:16, Aaron received it under the law; likewise the levites took it from the people and gave it to the High priest whom Aaron fell into. Today when we give tithe, the clergies after the order of Christ receive it and offer prayers of blessings. refer Gen. 18:19. And he (Melchisedek) blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth. Read Hebrews.6, 7,8 |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:50am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithing – Once in a Lifetime or Daily or Weekly or Monthly or Yearly? - Following the scriptures, Cain and Abel were recorded to have given once, maybe they gave more, we don’t know unless we judge following John. 21 : 25 - Abraham was recorded to have given once. - Jacob was recorded once to have promised giving tithe - Moses’ time and the Nation of Israel introduced it into the law and did not specify a time for ma’aser safe for the ‘year of tithing- once every third year’. Scholars say they practiced it after every harvest (time of increase)which varied by tribes and calendars - Jephthah was recorded once to have promised Bikkurim and he fulfilled the promise. (Judg.11…) - Religious sect in the NT strictly adhered unto the Terumat that it was given just about every week if not every day but wrongly on hypocritical grounds. Ma’aser is an act of worship and one should give as unto God and not unto any religious order except we choose to follow religion (which to me is still not wrong -2Tim.3:16, James.1:7) . The importance is that tithing should be made on the ground of worship / appeasement / appreciation / solicitation / enquiry. One who choses to give once in a life time is same as the other who choses to give daily, weekly and so on for he who gives should do so as unto the Lord and not to Man (Eph. 6:7). |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:50am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithing – Money or Agricultural produce? A biblical origin of Ma’aser began with Cain and Abel who gave the Bikkurim ( a portion of their increase) in livestocks and farm produce. I, personally do not solicit that tithing should be in any fixed mode be it money or any modus operandi, for the biblos never gave specific instruction on that except to the nation of Israel and not the pre- Israeli nations or people/era. When Abraham tithed (Bikkurim) he gave a tenth of all, what then is this all? I suppose; gold, diamond, silver, garments, crops, livestock and so on. Without any logical reasoning one should know that the moneys used in ancient times were the diamonds, silver and golds he gave as well as the agricultural produce he gave will mean the crops and livestocks. So whether one purposes in the heart to give money based on ma’aser (original tithe) and another chooses to give produce still based on ma’aser terumah, or Rishon or Terumat it makes no difference for all scriptures both OT and NT are given by the inspiration of God and they all are profitable for doctrine (1Timothy 3:16). For any argument on tithe based on only one system to me makes no use, what matters is the heart one gives from and the desire to maintain this ordinance that began before the law. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:48am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithing – Has it been abolished? I for one would not want to judge from any logical point of view, because if I were to, then I would ask how come taxation still prevails in almost all parts of the world today because tax in all sincerity of purpose is the same as tithing (ma’aser) However Let us judge this explicitly from the scriptures. What was actually abolished in the scriptures? Was it the law of God (Rom.7:22 – for I(paul) endorse and delight in the law of God) or the Law of Moses (1Cor.10:2 –. . . For all Israel was baptized into moses [Moses’ Law] in the cloud and sea)? You see it was the Law of Moses and correction it was never abolished but Fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matt.5:17). Jesus did not come to fulfill the Law of God but the Law of Moses, for He (Jesus) was the perfect expression of God himself who made the Law (Jn.8:58 – . . .before Abraham was, I AM) Most often, many Christians tend to mistake the use of the both one for the other whereas Moses’ law came with the rules as well as the punishments for violators, Romans called it the Law of Death, God’s Law are the commandments “thou shall not steal”, “thou shalt love the lord thy God” and so on ( it never came with a punishment, but ironically a reward if it was kept, no little wonder Paul endorsed it to the church in Romans.7:22 and even taught about it, refer Eph.6 etc). |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:46am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithing – The Law debate Law could be defined as a decree, principle or ruling guiding a thing/people/standard and most times are documented as a biblos for referencing. Whereas an ordinance is a rite/ritual/spiritual trail. Howbeit the usage of both is for orderliness and objectivity; a law can be put in place to show how a ritual is to be performed. If we go on saying that Law has been abolished how then we have “thou shall not murder”and others still relevant, as well as the Law of Grace, the Law of the spirit of Life, why can’t we go on to say they have all been abolished? After all they are all laws. It is in my opinion that the laws of Moses is what we should know as obsolete (which are the laws of ceareal offering, animal sacrifice, priestly consecration by animal blood) and not the laws of God, for the Laws of the latter are all without errors whilst that of the former was a man’s law which even the scriptures said “…was given because of the hardness of their hearts”- Ps.81:12. Tithe has never been a Law but rather an ordinance, for the Law of Moses only provided how this ordinance was to be administered to a particular nation (Israelites). when you read the Old Testament, you will find out that God specifically gave LAWS and he made them understand it was a LAW, hence it goes clearly stated - Ex.12:49 - " The LAW of the 1st born" - Lev.6:14 - " The LAW of the cereal offering" - Lev. 6:25- " The LAW of the sin offering" - Lev.7:7 - " The LAW of the sacrifice of peace offering" - Lev.7:37- " The LAW of the burnt offering" Law of leprosy disease (Lev.14:57), law of fluid discharge (lev.15:32) and it goes on and on, never was it mentioned anywhere of the LAW of TITHE/TITHEING as the case may be, rather the very first place you'll come across the word TITHE as regarding the Israelites exodus from Egypt was in Lev.27, reading from verse 1 it goes on like this -1. And the Lord said,. . . vs. 30: it stated TITHE and on it goes. Even this passage began by telling them how they should give/ administer tithe and not a fresh teaching about tithing. Let me Quote it Lev 27:30-32 30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's; it is holy to the Lord. [1 Cor 9:11; Gal 6:6.] 31 And if a man wants to redeem any of his tithes, he shall add a fifth to it. 32 And the entire tithe of the herd or of the flock, whatever passes under the herdsman's staff [by means of which each tenth animal as it passes through a small door is selected and marked], the tenth shall be holy to the Lord (AMP) Secondly if we can go through the Hebrew translations, one will discover that the tithe the nation of Israel practiced as at this time had the original tithe put (ma’aser) as a prefix or suffix. Meaning the tithe in Moses’ time followed the order of the original ancient tithe hence I call it an administrative tithing and not the origin of tithing per se. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:45am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Tithing – The Purpose The primary reason for tithing I will say is first worship to a god to acknowledge his/her ownership of everything and as such they are given back all/some portion. Some ancient writings say it could also mean an act of appreciation , a solicitation , an enquiry , an appeasement to a deity. Whichever way its been seen, it should be appreciated a fact that this act mean more of an ancestral standard to a law. How do I mean, in the Babylonian scrolls which preceded Abrahamism or Judaism none ever revealed that they were commanded to tithe under any given law, neither was it recorded that the first tithers- Cain and Abel (Bikkurim) ever did so based on compulsion as the supposedly law era gave. Howbeit the introduction of this ancestral act in the era of Judaism (Moses’ time) was never given as a law per se, but the law only showed how this act was to be administered. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:44am On Dec 14, 2009 |
“Bikkurim, Terumah, Ma'aser Rishon and Terumat Ma'aser” -In the time of Moses and Under Mosaic Law The tithe is specifically mentioned in the Book of Leviticus, the Book of Numbers and also in the Book of Deuteronomy. The tithing system was organized in a 7 year cycle, corresponding to the Shemittah cycle (You can google this for explanation). Bikkurim Tithe: is the custom of giving THE FIRST FRUIT as a practice commanded by God (Ex.23:19, Num.15:20, Deut.26:2) " The noun appears 16 times. The "first grain and fruit" harvested was to be offered to God Num 28:26 in recognition of God's ownership of the land and His sovereignty over nature. Bread of the "first fruits" was bread made of the first harvest grain, presented to God at Pentecost Lev 23:20. The "day of the first fruits" was Pentecost Num 28:26. Some scholars even argue that the offerings given by Abel was a tithe of his livestock (called Bikkurim) if you compare what he offered and what God commanded the Israelites in Num.18. Ma'aser Terumah Tithe: is the custom of setting aside a fixed proportion (Deut.12:11-. . ., Num.18:31) that is to be brought to the city of Jerusalem (The place God has chosen as a dwelling for His name), scholars believe Terumah tithe was same as what Apostle Paul commanded the Corinthian Christians in 1Cor.16:2 .Now some Christians argue that because it was not explicitly mentioned as tithe (but proportional collection) in the NT meant it was not tithe, now see it this way, when bible prophesied of a King to come, he was named as Emmanuel in the OT, when he was to be born in the NT he was named as Jesus, now can we say that Jesus isn’t the same thing as Emmanuel since he was not announced as such?. Ma'aser Rishon Tithe:This custom is what Moses commanded as the "the year of tithing" Deuteronomy 26:12-14 in which the Israelites set aside 10% of the increase of the land, they were to give this tithe to the Levites, strangers, orphans, and widows. These tithes were in reality more like taxes for the people of Israel and were mandatory, not optional giving. This tithe was distributed locally "within thy gates" Deuteronomy 14:28 to support the Levites and assist the poor. Terumat Ma'aser: The Levites, also known as the tribe of Levi, were descendants of Levi. They were assistants to the Israelite priests (who were the children of Aaron and, therefore,a subset of the Tribe of Levi) and did not own or inherit a territorial patrimony Numbers 18:21-28. Their function in society was that of temple functionaries, teachers and trusted civil servants who supervised the weights and scales and witnessed agreements. The goods donated from the other Israeli tribes were their source of sustenance. They received from "all Israel" a tithe of food or livestock for support, and in turn would set aside a tenth portion of that tithe for the Aaronic priests in Jerusalem and this was referred to as the Terumat Ma’aser. A memory lane through time will show that all nations of old practiced this act no little wonder we have the government system of tithing called Tax today. Romans, Greeks, Asian (minors and majors), the 3 American cardinals all practice tithing. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:43am On Dec 14, 2009 |
The “Ma`aser”- In the time of Abraham According to the Genesis account, Abram, returning from a battle by the Dead Sea, was hailed by Melchizedek, king of Salem (Jerusalem) who was also the priest of El Elyon ("the Most High God" (Genesis 14:18):18. And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20. And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. (Genesis 14:18-20, Holy Bible, King James Version) When Melchizedek appeared and offered Abram bread and wine and blessed him in the name of God, tithes were exchanged. Later, in (Genesis 28:22), Abraham's grandson Jacob also made a commitment to give God back a tenth of his increase. Now a careful look at this will reveal that this act meant more of a lineage tradition to a personal practise. The case is that a good scholar will tell that not all acts of individuals were recorded ink for ink in the biblos (Bible) refer to >>>John 21:25 - And there are also many other things which Jesus did. If they should be all recorded one by one [in detail], I suppose that even the world itself could not contain (have room for) the books that would be written. AMP. Now if this is true, then a logical structure will show that if (Abraham)the Father tithed then (Isaac) the son must have tithed for the Grandson (Jacob) to have promised tithe. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:41am On Dec 14, 2009 |
The “±e´r¢htu” — the standard Babylonian Tithe An Akkadian scroll revealed that Abraham whose ancestors were traced as Mesopotamians (Babylonians) were most likely familiar with this custom given his Babylonian background to the custom called the ‘esretu’, meaning "one-tenth". The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, Vol. 4 "E" revealed scripts of the Babylonian scriptures that showed them as tithers "…eleven garments as tithe (on 112 garments)" “, (the sun-god) Shamash demands the tithe, " If this scroll is true, then it means Abraham has been a tither before the biblical account but loyalty unto a different god(Genesis. 12:1). |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(op): 9:39am On Dec 14, 2009 |
Compliments of the Season all!especially Kunleoshod (Ogajim), Viaro, Zikkyy, Chukwudi44, ttalks My candid explanation of tithe and how it applies to us all as christians today. Pls read this little article and before we condemn let us at least read 'ur own little view about tithe. Thanx Tithe - The Definition: (Tithe) (Hebrew “ma±¦´¢r”): Is defined as the custom of giving a 10th part of the products of the land and of the spoils of war to priests and kings (1 Macc 10:31; 11:35; 1 Sam 8:15,17)The custom is a very ancient one among most nations. That the Jews had this custom long before the institution of the Mosaic Law is shown by Gen 14:17-20 (cf. Heb 7:4) and Gen 28:22. A better rendering for the original word " ma±¦´¢r " means a standard of parting one's possession into 10 places and giving a 10th to a superior being mostly revered as a demi-god or priest to a god/goddess . It is a well- known fact that this custom dated before the advent of Abraham. Babylon was a nation/ people who performed this ritual before Abraham’s account and they called it |
| Family › Re: Can You Describe Your Childhood In 1 Word? by Tonyet1(m): 1:15pm On Nov 26, 2009 |
Bellicose! (not my fault i grew up in the barracks) |
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