₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
Why are you this elusive?

Me elusive? Your questions have been answered already, by me and some others,but you're unwilling to accept it or even understand it because you convinced yourself before asking them that they can't be answered .

Again my Challenge to Atheists:
1. If an existence is not tangible i.e. cannot be measured in terms of Mass, Dimension, Energy and Time, does it prove it doesn't exist?
2. Is a software within a machine REAL or not?
3. Can the software within a machine be "measured" or "quantified" by any physical means?
4. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist?
5. Tell me, how can one prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software?

Ok . I will sacrifice my time again to answer it directly in a way you can understand . But if after then you still don't accept my answers as correct,then please answer it yourself since you alone know the correct thing.

1. It's not a prove it doesn't exist. But the person who says it, the existence ,exist has the onerous task of finding a way of demonstrating to others how it exist .
2. I know the software inside an AI is real because of the visible effects it produces

3. Yes . We can do that indirectly through its features, some of which are, it's portability, flexibility, reliability , functionality etc


4. Yes it's wisdom so you aren't cheated by the person selling the machine that host the software. He just might be selling you a fake
And I just explained how it can be done indirectly. You don't need to see the software physically to know it's there but by interacting with it through usage .

5. I don't need to repeat myself. I have answered it up there. If you know how tests are carried to determine if someone is infected with something then you won't be asking all these kindergarten questions.

Now that I answered your questions, would you be humble enough to respond in kind by answering it correctly for me if you think I didn't answer them correctly?

Otherwise, admit that you are a bunch of good for nothing noise makers!

The above is actually meant for you,not me. FYI, I'm not an atheist. I don't need to be one to question you. Do I?

TenQ:
Then answer my questions about that which everyone can deduce the answers and it's logical conclusions.

Which questions exactly?

If you cannot understand how a software of an AI machine is, it is impossible to understand how a spirit is

Not true.

I understand how a software of an AI machine is . I don't know why you assume I don't.

It's you who has been struggling to make others understand how the software of an AI is similar to spirit. The blame is yours not mine. The AI software produces effects everyone can observe.

Can you tell what observable effects or effect spirit produces ? If doesn't, then how to you convince others it exist .

TenQ:
Anyone that cannot understand that non-tangible things can be real but not measurable cannot understand why the soul or spirit is tangible but cannot be physically measured.

What's the actual nature of this spirit or soul you keeping talking about?

How did you come to perceive it yourself to know it's real?

This is why atheists demand a physical proof for what is not physically demonstratable and they keep on braying like donkeys as if what they say makes any sense.

Thus I give a Software in an AI robot analogy.

If it cannot be seen or physically demonstrated, then don't blame anyone who says it doesn't it.

This is why they would NEVER answer the question as it betrays their STUPIDITY!

Please drop the insult. You're acting too defensively now. Find a more better way to describe what spirit is first. Your software analogy makes perfect sense to you probably because you have a direct experience of what you're talking about. But for others who have no such experience,, nothing you say will make any sense .

TenQ:
I did not once define what a spirit nor soul is!

Then what have you been trying to describe or hint at with your use of the software analogy.?

StillDtruth:
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding (or pretence in lack og understanding) disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone

I have explained it, and called for a valid challenge of my definition but every atheist has runs away. Understandably, anyway!

You definition doesn't describe anything tangible.

TenQ:
Have a nice day!

You too .

See, I also subscribe to what you trying to call spirit. But the difference between you and me is the definition and the explanation of what it's.


A popular author once said that if you claim to know something but struggle to explain it clearly and simply enough for everyone to understand it, then you don't know it .

TenQ:
Please do not waste my time?
If you don't understand the workings of simple softwares , how can you comprehend spiritual things.

Again :
1. If an existence is not tangible i.e. cannot be measured in terms of Mass, Dimension, Energy and Time, does it prove it doesn't exist?
2. Is a software within a machine REAL or not?
3. Can the software within a machine be "measured" or "quantified" by any physical means?
4. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist?


Otherwise, let's call it a day!

Hehehe

You just said you are yet to claim a software is spirit. Now, if I don't understand the workings of a software how can I understand spiritual things?. Talk of wasting another person's time with some dishonesty 😂

Please go back to my previous response .I modified it to answer your question on measurement of dimensions, mass ,time etc

TenQ:
1. Wrong Question: No one ever has claimed that a software is a Spirit!
2. Non tangible (your words not mine) imply out of the league of Mass, Dimension, Energy and Time.

If an existence is not tangible i.e. cannot be measured in terms of Mass, Dimension, Energy and Time, does it prove it doesn't exist?


Firstly,
I am discussing what is known (Software) and not yet spirits or soul.

I think you should answer my question since I was the one to bring it out.
1. Is a software within a machine REAL or not?
2. Can the software within a machine be "measured" or "quantified" by any physical means?
3. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist?

You're already assuming.

The topic has to do with spirit which you're yet to describe what actually it is, and the next thing you brought in a software into the discussion.

To what end I ask?

Modified. Not been able to measured in terms of mass dimension etc neither proves something exist nor doesn't exist

This thread is fun to read.

@ TenQ


The definition for non physical that we have says it has to do with the mind ,spirit or non tangible

So, my question for you is this,

is a computer software a mental phenomenon or spirit ?

You don't deposit money

danilo16:
This is the correct version. Fulfilling this is what is called meeting the bail condition. In several instances, you hear that someone is granted bail but failed to meet the conditions. The money is actually deposited with the court registry (in the case where money is the only condition)

Not true. No money is deposited in any court registry.

ceejay80s:
Bail is different from surety
U will bail urself and bring surety of like some Incase u disappear

No. You can't bail yourself. That only happens in Nigerian police stations where you're forced to pay money for bail.

Kobojunkie:
1. So, you do agree then that once that marriage license is issued or the ceremonials are taken care of, what one has is marriage — the product —regardless of what comes afterward? Case closed then!

You have come again. Where did I disagree please. And why should I not know that? I don't accept the product description of it,only marriage will do me.You make it seem like something that can be bought from a store

2. Oi Vey! One moment you pretend you respect the fact that all marriages are unique as they are and are valid even at that, the next moment you come up suggesting that it is all based on experience. what the heck is up with you? Make up your fking mind for Pete's sake!

The above wayward talk has nothing to do with what I discussed here. You're hallucinating. Provide evidence from what I said before now to prove I said all of that above, or you shut up. You're shamelessly lying everywhere to win an argument

3. The subject of this conversation is the fact that more and more are opting out of the marriage agreement and choosing to remain single or cohabit instead. By improving benefits available to the married... reduced taxation for instance, housing vouchers for the married, child-tax credit for the marriage, equal division of marriage property in the case of divorce, alimony, and all of that good stuff, you go a long way to encourage individuals to consider marriage than the alternatives. This is already been used in other places and proven to be of value.

The "more and more" is in your head. You haven't provided anything to support your believe. The link you shared says the "more and more" in Nigeria is not significant enough compared to the "more and more going into it everywhere in Nigeria
Those opting out of it in Nigeria are less than 1 % of the population. How can that be a problem ?
Your recommendation above is not guaranteed to make the marriage last or enjoying for the couples.In fact it can make it boring and tensed, with some partners focusing their attention more on what they stand to gain instead of what they should be contributing to make it work.

4. Look, abandon this talk cause you seem to have an agenda I am altogether not the least bit interested in as it is clear you have a hard time staying on time and would rather ramble on about how trying marriage is the way to know marriage when even the 5-year-old here with basic social-emotional learning (SEL) experience has figured out these things..

I don't have any agenda. It's really annoying listening to people like you who have no single experience on the matter trying to offer advice on something they should just shut it until they have their own experience.

I won't be replying to the link as promised.I have summarized what I intended to say up there. Read it again.

The study is not a valid one. You obviously don't know what constitute a valid research. You just went online and Google something and dump it here without reading it very well yourself.

The author of the article made it clear that the rising cases in Nigeria can not be compared to what is happening in Europe or the US . You were blind to that and introduced it to me with the statement "here in Nigeria also "as if the situation is the same.
You ignored the information which says that more than 70 percent are married and still stay married. Even the divorced ones sometimes reconcile and return back to the marriage they abandon.

You're focused only on information which support what you want to believe about marriages , while ignoring the ones which proves you wrong.

Kobojunkie:
Look, here, no two marriages have ever been shown to be the same and never will. Why? Because marriage is made up of two unique individuals — different experiences, nurture, temperaments, etc.

Your assumptions about me and biases against the institution of marriage is really working against you .

Where did I even suggest that every marriage is the same for you to reply me with the above flippant talk?

Is it that you have problem understanding what you read, or using that to escape answering directly to what you have no answer to? You're notorious for doing this on this board nearly every time, and this is not the first time with me.

Your mistake is attempting to wrap marriages as if they are according to the idea you have in your head there. You only waste your time talking to someone like me about such things. So long as the marriage certificate is signed/formalities are carried out, every marriage out there is as valid a marriage as your very own marriage. Kapisch!

And again where did I say or suggest every marriages out there is not valid . You really have a problem.
Yes ,I know that I have been wasting my time talking to you because not only are you not married to discuss this (this not to mock you in any way. I wish you to get married) , you're also a well known misogamist ,a marriage hater ,who's deluded to believe that an imaginary God has placed a curse on all marriages and for that no one should venture into it. Is that not what you repeat like a bot all the time here? Yes.

2. I focus on the process of the union because that is the only element of marriage that can be controlled. Marriage is not meant to be a jail; Divorce is a legal and logical out of marriage. I don't see a reason why I should spend time trying to force people to stay in a union that no longer makes sense to time. By focusing on making marriage attractive and more beneficial, I believe it is possible to not only get more people to choose marriage but also let them see that marriage does not need to turn out for the worst for any of the partners even if it ends in a divorce. Marriage/divorce being a win-win is better than what marriage is right now,

Then please explain how an improvement on the process will make it attractive, beneficial and successful after, without the couples doing anything? You won't answer. I'm sure of that.
Both the process and what it leads to complement each other ,but the goal or the end is the most important area to focus on. Where are your going with the marriage? If you don't know that, then you surely go nowhere. It's as simple as that.


Please go get married first even if with a random stranger so you have some
experience of your own and come back later to advise people from what you learnt.

You have been overreaching yourself on a topic you should have kept quiet already and learn from others experienced in it.

I will reply later to the link you replied me with concerning rising cases of divorce in Nigeria,and end the conversation immediately after that.

Kobojunkie:
My view is not in the least bit distorted at all. Those formalities establish what you call a marriage — which means you have obtained the product. And marriage is the goal of those who sign those dotted lines. Whatever they do after that is considered marriage? So?

Yes, even random strangers are not barred by law from doing just that. So, I am not certain what you are going on about here.

Technically ,marriage means what you say it mean. But it's much more than that when you include in your description what happens after


And it's what happens after that's the focus of nearly everyone here as reason why it appears to be losing relevance.

You, alone, is focused on the process during
the union as if that's the major reason marriage is being avoided by some
But it's not.

If it's, then you haven't been able to prove it so far using what you know.

As for your final comment, you're yapping nonsense as usual. Random strangers are not barred doesn't mean that sort of thing is happening anywhere in the world. It's only the insane that would engage in that kind of irrational behavior. Please don't just type nonsense and post because you want to say something in reply.

Kobojunkie:
Lol.. the moment you sign the agreement papers or you fulfill the traditional marriage requirements, you pretty much bought the product called marriage. What you do with it afterwards is between you and your marriage business partner.

2. Make marriage successful ke? We are talking of making it more enticing than it has currently become.

I'm afraid you have a very distorted view of what marriage is. The signing of the dotted lines are mere formalities. Focusing on that as if that's all that matters will distract from the goal .

Random strangers don't just walk into the registry to " buy" the product . Do they?

Kobojunkie:
This here discussion has absolutely to do with whether one has experienced it or not. The fact is clear to all, by way of the statistics available, that more and more individuals are opting for alternatives to marriage. So, I am not certain of the place of experience in all of this.

Where are you getting the statistics from? From all over the world or a particular region?

And what's alternative to marriage and your definition of marriage?

Kobojunkie:
Precisely! The product needs improvement work done on it either through enactment of new laws and benefits for those who would choose it all while protecting them at the same time. And it could also benefit from some rebranding work.

Marriage is not a product you buy from the market. It's something you have to build together with a willing partner you have chosen to love for the rest of your life. If you're not ready for that , then don't go into it.

Enactment of laws and protection from government are not the things that would make any marriage successful .

Kobojunkie:
No one is attempting to determine here the depth of the river that is marriage. What we are saying is that the river does not seem to benefit many as it used to and it may be time to fill parts of it in so the cost to the individual of crossing it is no longer as great as it used to be.

You have given a wrong interpretation to the parable.

Having a direct experience of something is sometimes the only only way you can judge iif it's actually good or bad and not by listening to the experience of others who had it bad

Those ones will so mess up your mind with their own negative experiences to the extent you start imagining that "the river does not seem to benefit many as it used to "

The river is there for you to step into and use for your own benefit. How you achieve that is dependent on the effort you, yourself ,put into it.

Kobojunkie:
Look, the fact of life is this, people will almost always prefer to buy products that will be of more benefit to them than to others. Marriage needs to be of great benefit to both men and women before they choose to commit.

In the days of our ancestors, the benefits were outlined in the traditional marriage laws of the time. Those laws no longer hold weight in the society we live in today. People are less inclined to follow along with the old ways just because it is that. They now understand that the choices they make directly impact their particular quality of life and so many are less likely to make sacrifices for the good of others. This means the marriage laws or rules needed, including the guaranteed benefits list, ought to be updated to keep people interested.

2. Marriage can only be beautiful if what it offers is better than the competition.

You cannot determine the depth of river by standing at its bank.

Marriage is only irrelevant for those who don't know its relevance.

Omoapena:
Lolz
You gotta go back to study economy.


When there's too much money in circulation, what will it cause.
If minimum wage should exceed 100k, if will cause problem to the nation..

Where did I argued that minimum wage should be over 100k?

Show me

Modified. This was what I said. Show where I said it must be over 100k

author=triplechoice post=129433756]

Please understand the 600k is just a "gimmick" by labour to get a better deal from government at the end of the day. Nothing is fixed yet.

During Buhari regime, labour at first, proposed around 150k as minimum wage ,but at the end of the day, 30k was approved by him .

You should look to past wage negotiations in this country to understand what's behind the current proposal of labour, and stop the unnecessary criticism.

helinues:
Make Dem kuku contest for the president in the next election.

Look for something reasonable to do with your time so you don't regret it later.

1Sharon:
I'm watching.

They're going to rope Jnr popes wife into his death and end up asking for a DNA test. They are somehow, going to make it her fault.

There's no guarantee that your speculations will come to pass.

SoNature:
NLC has membership across public and private sectors. I am talking about the latter - very unproductive yet greedy folks!

You're speaking as an outsider. You don't know the true situation. Civil servants shouldn't carry cutlasses and shovels to their various offices before you see them as productive.

You don't know the kind of job they do but just judging them based on what you expect them to do.

You certainly cannot say that civil servants in Lagos state are not productive. They're very productive. Go and confirm this before you start generalising.

Funflipper:
Inflation. Too much money chasing few goods = price skyrocketing.

You're not incorrect,but that's just textbook economics theory which doesn't meet with the current reality in the country.

What we have now is too little money chasing too many goods. That's not normal and it's the reality which no one should resist unless they want to live in denial of the truth.The current situation Nigeria is abnormal ,and it' may lead to economic crisis if something is not done urgently.


The prices of goods and services have skyrocketed beyond the reach of the common man after the removal of fuel subsidy and the floating of the naira and as a result ,the purchasing power of Nigerian workers and others in the country,have reduced drastically.

30k minimum wage is nothing at the moment compared to 4 years ago when it was approved.Then a bag of local rice was 10- 15 k, but now it's close to 80k.

The public no longer can make purchases as before from traders and other business men.

And if the situation persists it would lead to the shutting down of several factories in the country resulting in a reduction of taxes and other levies accruing to government as well as the laying off of workers.

That's already happening. Some manufacturing firms have completely shutdown their operations in Nigeria and relocated to neighboring countries. Others have either stopped production or reduced it until things improve.

The only thing to do to rectify the situation so that it doesn't get out of hand, is for a corresponding increase in workers salaries . That's the only way out.Nothing else would do .The government understands this very well hence
they're in a hurry to make sure the new minimum is signed into law by month end.

But they have no choice. The minimum wage act mandates that salaries of workers in Nigeria must be reviewed upward every 4 years so that they continue to earn a living wage. The people who came up with that law did enough consultation with economic experts to know the implication before it was signed into law. So I don't understand why you lots keep resisting it and talking of hyperinflation as if you know more than the experts consulted.


Your fears about hyperinflation are unfounded. Businesses in Nigeria can no longer afford to increase prices of their goods and services. Any further attempt to do so after salary increase would lead to more boycott of their products or a reduction in purchases from their regular customers.

They need to sell more to remain in business and the only way they can do that is to maintain current prices or maybe a little increase not enough to cause any hyperinflation

SoNature:
Unfortunately, Nigérian public servants are not productive. You come to work to gist and gossip. At the end of the month, you start asking for salaries.

Regurgitating the half truths you have been mislead with. Nigerian civil servants to you are unproductive but each time labour goes on strike the whole country is grounded.

Noblemanonpoint:
You are listing CBN,NNPC and FIRS. What of the private sector, the Adelabu and co limited and other businesses?
Can they pay this?

When can they pay?

Nigerian business men and women are notorious for underpaying their workers So don't fight for them unless you're one of them.

Moreover ,minimum wage is for businesses that have a minimum of 50 workers in their employ. It's not for every one.

If you're unfortunate to find yourself working in a place where you're being paid less than the minimum wage due to the number of workers they have,it's your choice , and not labour's if you choose to remain there and allow them exploit you.

Noblemanonpoint:
It's quite obvious you are severely uneducated, which is quite a pity because you have access to the internet and i assume you also have a smart phone.

Do the needful yourself, i'm not a teacher.

Quit the wayward talk and just provide enough evidence from the past in Nigeria to support your hyperinflation claim .

If you have to refer me to Google then it means you're the one who's "severely uneducated "

Instead of getting yourself busy somewhere else,you're here on Nairaland trying to advise the government who has in their employ seasoned economic experts to advise them on what they need to know. I'm sure in your small mind you think you know better than them.

Yeye the smell .

PHAYOL81:
Labour don't seem to be ready for a change. They're not realistic with their demand.

You and your likes are judging them as not realistic because you're are not too well informed about wage negotiations in this country

The 600k announced by labour is a means to achieve an end .

kay29000:
Dude I get your analogy, but do you know the number of workers that the government is paying? Do your research on that before you say 600k monthly "MINIMUM WAGE" is not too much.

Please understand the 600k is just a "gimmick" by labour to get a better deal from government at the end of the day. Nothing is fixed yet.

During Buhari regime, labour at first, proposed around 150k as minimum wage ,but at the end of the day, 30k was approved by him .

You should look to past wage negotiations in this country to understand what's behind the current proposal of labour, and stop the unnecessary criticism.

Noblemanonpoint:
Calling people fools when that title plainly rest with your likes that have no basic understanding of economics.

So you're saying manual labourers and other artisian should be paid 600k monthly even when the business that employed them earn way less than that as their monthly turnover, or you think minimum wage is only applicable to civil service workers.
Did you guys go to school?

It would lead to severe hyper inflation, it's not realistic!!

That would totally bring the country on its knees. There has to be equal economic growth before such amount can be proposed and implemented.

The leadership of NLC are dunderheads.

You have come with you moronic talk again.

You keep repeating it would lead to hyperinflation without for once providing instances in the past it led to that in Nigeria and other countries where minimum wage was increased. I don't think you even know what's hyperinflation .