₦airaland Forum

Rafidi:
This actually is your problem. Not ours. It shows the confusion and ignorance among your clerics. Ignorance that leads to extremism like the one you are treading on, even after one of your Saudi role models has recanted his stance.

A Wahhabi/Salafist Sunni imam who was in support of Shia before coming out to say "Shi'a are heretics" has not happened yet. The norm of Wahhabism/Salafism has always been spreading division among Muslims until they see the light and repent. What we have seen are the ones who have flowed in the stream of sectarian extremism, division of Muslims, and inciting and instigating the bloodshed of innocent Muslims (who hold a different interpretation of the faith) seeing "the light" and retracing their steps and declaring that they have been wrong to label (Shia) Muslims - who fast in the holy month of Ramadan, uphold the five daily prayers, read the same Quran, believe in the same Prophet and face the same qiblah - as "heretics".

It is a good development but also sad that this man's fatwa calling a big segment of Muslims "heretics" has contributed to inciting the sectarian bloodshed and attacks on Shia Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere around the world.

Perhaps, you too can pick up a book or two or more and read to dispel your ignorance and be enlightened for the good of the Muslim ummah as a whole.

Nice one.

Empiree:
I do not argue that English or other translations do not capture the Arabic meaning of Quran. That was not my argument. Ofcourse other languages capture intended meaning in most cases. Otherwise we would not understand anything. My argument was that Quran can not be translated in the sense that God's word can not be translated and I have used few examples in the past I used Ahad, that common meaning is One. This captures the intended meaning but it can have consequences too bcuz (1) One in this sense is numeric. But Ahad Quran is talking about is limitless in the sense that nothing before and nothing after Him. It is this attribute that Christianity has given to Jesus.

You cannot use an isolated word, out of thousands of words in the quran, to make a general statement and draw a conclusion. Lets not over-flog the issue of translation, from my own conclusion, there is no book that can not be translated with 99.9% textual accuracy. We might disagree but scholars who are specialist and consultants in international linguistics will disagree with you.

Empiree:
Yes, it gives them advantage of lugha but not understanding of quran itself. You can be speaking English fluently but if Wole Soyinka writes English you may never understand it. The language of the Qur’an cannot be appreciated without touching upon the linguistic gems which adorn the Qur’an, this has been part of the course from its beginning and is one of the most rewarding elements of learning the language to students.

Arabs have advantage because of the fact that Islam is interwoven with Arabian culture and tradition hence their better apprciation of the religion. Wole Soyinka, though have attained mastery in English language in terms of ability to communicate with the language, he is not a cultural English man. His lifestyle and social behavior still expressed his yorubaness. So making an unrelated comparison between a cultural Arab man who view Islam as his social and religious identity, and Prof Wole Soyinka who only mastered the art of speaking a foreign language while he retains his aboriginal culture, is wrong. All I see you do is an attempt to elevate a foreign language as a result of the attachment you have with the religion associated with the language.

Empiree:
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) gave us a simple formula to be the best: “The best amongst you is the one who learns the Qur’an and teaches it.” (Al-Bukhari) So go ahead, learn and teach the Qur’an, and make yourself among the best of Muslims Insha Allah.

I am learning Islam, not to be a muslim, but to point out the limitations in the religion which, to me, is fair enough. Islam/Muslims are also doing the same to/on other religions.

Empiree:
as educated as you are, I no longer expect you to even bring this up. We talked extensively on this subject years ago. Quran is not asking us to seek guidance from you with respect to religion. The Ayah in question was speaking about specific incident that took place before Nabi Muhammad (saw). Let me give you example. It is like you ask your dad for some historical incident related to his own dad (your grandpa). After your dad narrated the incident to you, he tells you go to go his dad (grandpa) to confirm the story (to be true). If Quran is asking us to ask people of the book for guidance, first, people of the book are basically of TWO TYPES (JEWS & CHRISTIANS). I ask you which of the two Qur'an wants Muslims to seek guidance from?. If it is Jews, do you believe in l what they believe?. If you don't, then it means you have no business with the Ayah.

At time I dont what to believe in Islam, the quran, mohammed or the sahabas. If the quran asked us not to drink or gamble I am very sure you wont bring us various hadith to explain this to me but anytime a possible islamic-critical verse is found in the quran, muslims start searching the seerah and the hadith to expain away the simple instruction from Allah. This is hypocrisy and a high level intellectual dishonesty on the part of my muslim friends. It is a general rule in islam that anywhere the hadith negates the quran, that hadith narration must be rejected as unauthentic, why the double standard?

Empiree:
Hence, you see Jews as misguided. If on the other hand quran is talking about Christians, Jews as well see you as misguided because you violated first commandment of faith that Jesus is God. Jews don't believe this. Therefore, Quran could not be telling muslims to seek guidance from either of you since Quran sees both groups on dolal (astray).

This is a subjective opinion. Just as the Muslims believed that the Jews have incurred the wrath of Allah and the Christians have gone astray (surah al-fathia 6-7), the same way the Jews and the Christians view Islam as idolatry because of some paganism in Islam such as kissing the black stone, running around the kabba, etc.

Empiree:
Sorry, bro. I know you and fellow CHRISTIANs love using this to tackle this issue. Whoever believes this nonsense amongst the Muslims need brain check. Quran sits in judgment over Hadith and it made no mention of goat eating revelation. This is one of the many discrepancies in the Hadith we have been talking about. They in clear contradiction with Quran. If there was any revelation left out, the only one that had the right to tell us was the prophet himself. Not his wife or any companions. And I am sure this was fabricated on her name.

Ibn Majjah is neither a jew nor a christian and besides his hadith is also graded as sahih. Why are denying any hadith narration that seems to be an embarrassment to islam?

Empiree:
By the clear Book, Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn [mankind]. (Quran 44:1-3)

Allah's opinion.

Empiree:
You sure you read seerah carefully at all?. Prophet Muhammad (saw) clearly passed test of prophethood. All the questions posed to him were answered. Have you not read the story of Jewish rabbi, Abdullah ibn Salam who became Muslim after these questions?. Have you forgotten questions they asked him?. Have you forgotten what this rabbi said to the prophet about Jews after knowing the truth?.

One misguided rabbi cannot be the face of the believing Jew, the same way you will argue that a Muslim convert to Christianity is a fake Muslim. I was expecting you to validate Mohammed's prophethood using the Torah and the Injil.

Empiree:
You also said because he was not from lineage of Abraham (as). Really?. Did you say this from their perspective or from yours?. I can excuse you if you said it from their perspective because that's exactly why they rejected him but not on the basis of his test of prophethood. They did not even reject him on the basis of Abraham but of Isaac lineage. They knew he's of Abraham progeny

Maybe you didn't read my response well. All prophets are from the lineage of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the quran confirmed that to the Jews are given the gift of prophethood. In the injil, it was also confirmed that salvation belongs to the Jews. I heard someone say Abraham was an Arab, do you also hold this view?

najib632:
Irrational? You're funny. Yes it was normal back then but now it's not. Some who expects 1400 yrs ago to be the same as now calling me irrational. Did she R.A. ever complain about the marriage? Then why are you now complaining about it for her, did she R.A. send you? By Allah if you know the amount of knowledge Muslims got because of her young age and wisdom you'll not even speak. Thos is some one who claims to have studied Islam for five years, you're funny.

The bolded is an inflation of your ego to make yourself feel good. Muslims learn nothing from Aisha except what she allegedley narrated in the hadith, most of which can not even be authenticated, while others are rumors, Chinese whispers and gossips (all in the hadith)

Empiree:
Quran in Arabic is one. Different tafsir (explanation of Qur'an) like issue of understanding. For instance, if Quran says "and when he was going down the hill he kicks the bucket". "The Ayah" doesn't change in the Qur'an but different mufasir may understand it differently. There is nothing wrong with this. And I never blamed christian denominations for this. What we accused them of is not different understanding but changes or distortions of texts which ultimately led them to greater misunderstandings. And reason Quran tafsir can not be the same is clear from Quran itself. Quran says we can not do things or understand things the same way. The issue here is that some tafsir may be closer to the truth than others. There are many things in tafsir in Kathir that are very close to facts and there are some that fall short. That's why Muslims explore. The more you see the more you know. But this differences have nothing to do with obligatory practices. There is no difference of opinion amongst Quran exegesis.

It is a fact that translating any work from one language to the other has it unique challenge as some basic information could be lost but that does not nullify the fact that the information translated can still be 99.8% correct. The margin of error (0.02% or less) is always negligible and this issue is not only associated with the quran. The Torah was written in Hebrew while the Injil was written in Greek but have been widely translated into English language since English language is currently the most widely used language worldwide. Rendering the Torah and the Injil in English language does not affect the message in the original scriptures. Giving the quran a protective status because of the possible flaws associated with translation does not make sense. Besides, people like Yusuf Ali and Picktail has a great scholarship in Arabic language and their translations are believed to be as accurate as possible. If your position is that their translations were rather interpretation/explanation that do not convey, in absoluteness, the messages of the quran, that's a big lie bro.

Empiree:
no one undermines works of any muffasir. We commend all of them. And being Arab is not a proof of better understanding either. There are nonarab muslims who understand Islam more than Arabic speaking people. In the days of sheikh Adam (ra) technology was not as it is today either. They could work on just one hadith for 3 months those days. So again, there are no abrogations in the Qur'an. But some muslims may be here now and disagree with me. That's exactly what I am saying that we can not understand things same way bcus they read abrogations in the Qur'an and concluded that some verses must have been cancelled. This is simply wrong methodology

Being an Arab, to an extent, gives one an advantage in the knowledge of Islam than non-Arabs. Islam, aside from being a religion, is an identity, a culture and a social system to a typical Arab person. So, the commitment and knowledge a typical Arab-man (or even a Pakistani) will have on the religion cannot be overemphasized. An non-Arab must be 300% more committed to the religion than a typical arab man to be at par. On the issue of abrogation, from your argument, it is clear that there is no consensus on the subject matter. And I would like you mention any tafsir written by any scholar that claimed that the abrogated verses are in the Torah and the Injil. I have mentioned Ibn Kathir and Jelalyn, i would like you give your reference as well.

Empiree:
It is God who revealed tawrah, injil, zabur, Quran. When Quran was revealed and it is talking about abrogations, it is simply telling us that God abrogated some verses of previous scriptures given to previous prophets.

This is a subjective opinion and almost all the 5 schools of Islamic school of taught will disagree with you. And again, the quran confirmed the previous scriptures and did not in any place repudiate it. Allah even asked muslim to consult previous revelation from the people of the book for guidance. Allah will not ask Muslims to consult a book that some of it contents has been abrogated. You can as well mention the abrogated verses in the Injil and Torah, and their replaced ayah in the quran.

Empiree:
Rajam(stoning). Stoning adulterers is in the Torah and Bible till this moment. But when prophet muhammad (saw) came, he applied their Law on the Jews before verse of flogging in the Qur'an was revealed saying that the new law for adultery is now flogging which automatically abrogates the old.

According to Sunnah Ibn Majjah, the verse of stoning was revealed but Aisha claimed that he he-goat ate it while they were preparing for the burial of the prophet. If the hadith of Ibn Majjah is authenticate as regards this narration, it can be concluded that the compilers of the quran left out this very important detail.

Empiree:
Qibla (prayer direction). Before prophet Muhammad (saw) came, Jews used to face Jerusalem. After prophet muhammad came, he too faced same direction with them. But after it was clear that Jews have rejected his messange and also decided to kill him, God ordered him and his companions to turn away from Jerusalem and turn toward Mecca. This is in seerat and in surah baqarah

Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's SAW) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Haram (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scriptures (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bah at Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do. 2:144

The change in the direction of prayer is as a result of the disagreement the Jews had with Mohammed. Mohammed, to the jews, did not the pass the test of prophethood and besides did not come from the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which all the patriarchs came from. Mohammed violated the prophetic bloodline hence was rejected by the Jews. The rejection led Mohammed to change the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to mecca. It is noteworthy that at no time had idolatry and paganism taken over Jerusalem while mecca was a place that harbors over 360 Arabian idols before the Islamic revolution of Mohammed. Why will God change the direction from a holy land to a place that formerly hosted over 360 different idols, among which is the current black stone in kabba?

najib632:
This shows you're a stupid person. How do you expect 1400 years to be the same as these normal times?

Sleeping with a 9yr old girl is OK 1400 yrs ago but bad now. Can you see how religion has made you irrational and unreasonable?

Empiree:
sorry, bro. There are over 1000 Quran exegesis. Sheikh Adam Al-ilory (ra) said, "there are 1000 tafsir of Quran. What you know of tafsir of Quran depends on efforts you put in. Money you spend on seeking knowledge of tafsir, exploration and understanding etc

I agree that I am not scholar but I must remind you that there are scholars of Islam who supported my position.

Then, based on your submission, interpretations of the Quran is subjective based on what you understand an 'ayah' to mean. It also means that 1000 Islamic scholars can hold different opinions concerning a certain revelation in the Quran. If that's the case, don't blame denominational Christians who also hold divergent views of their scriptures.

Also, Allah said his words are VERY clear (in the Quran) but from what I can see, it is either human beings get Allah's words wrong or Allah did not clarify most of his words, especially his latter revelations.

Besides, Sheiks Adam Al-ilori is a Yoruba scholar (don't meant to diminish his scholarship in Islamic theology) while both Ibn Kathir and Jelalyn are Arab Muslims who wrote their tafsir (when there was no computer and printing machines) hundreds of years ago and painstakingly ensured that they presented the interpretations as honest and clear and possible. You cannot diminish their contributions because Ibn Kathir's work is used by over 90% of Sunni and shia Muslims worldwide. The authority his work has is unparalleled among other tafsirs of the Quran.

Empiree:
No abrogations in the Quran. If there is any it is simply their opinion.

And op himself is a confused fellow. Due to his confusion is the reason he can't seem to figure out verse you brought up and baqara 256. Hence he has to let it slide for now. And I know he doesn't believe in their of abrogation which is correct by the way.

The most famous tafsir written by Imam Ibn Kathir argued that surah 9 abrogated previous revelations. As far as I know, you have no scholarship in Islamic theology and you don't understand Islam more than either Ibn Kathir or Jelalyn (he also wrote tafsir or exegesis of the Quran). You are free to disagree, but they argued that both the abrogated ayahs and the new ayahs are all in the Quran. While I do disagree with 'username' in many argument he makes concerning religion, he has no issue looking at issues from both sides of a coin.

usermane:
You made a good argument. Verses like 9:5 & 9:29, 5:33 comes to mind here. But although my out look on Qur'an is not the same as when I started this thread, my purpose here is still the same. I want this as a love letter to liberal Muslims who identify as Muslims but are out there fighting for UHRFE in Muslim countries. And so for this one thread, I'll let aside Abrogation.

Fundamentalist Muslim countries, like Saudi Arabia and Iran, understand Islam and give 100% support for apostasy laws. No room for apostasy and apostates in these 2 countries. While attempt by people like you in sanitising Islam is fully appreciated, it nevertheless goes against all the 5 Islamic schools of taught with respect to religious freedom. Since the commands of Allah are universal and eternal, you cannot separate the commands in the Quran from Allah himself. To summarize my point, there is no religious freedom in Muslim-dominated countries while Muslims are free to practice their religion in any part of the globe.

usermane:
Right of Non-Muslims to reject Islam & Muslims to apostatize from Islam unconditionally

2:256 & 18:29


If a single verse that support Freedom of Belief and Expression is wanted, either of these verses suffice. They accept apostasy by Muslims, reject forced conversion explicitly, but on closer inspection seem opposed to the Hisba or Dhimmi system which are basically covert means of repressing freedom of belief and expression in traditional Islam.

It will be fair for you to understand the context surah albaqra 256. This is not a general rule for religious freedom in Islam according to the tafsir of Ibn Kathir on this ayah (quran 2:256). And again surah 9 (the last surah of the quran) of the quran abrogated all the previous surah (according to Ibn Kathir). So if you want to make a final decision on this matter, surah 9 will give you a better guide and nowhere did surah 9 advocated for religious freedom.

It has been proven by scientist that it is very good for consumptionz and it's from a very pure source, though we don't need scientist to know, Allah is the omniscient, and he has revealed to us everything we need to know. The remaining knowledge is left for us to find

The Saudi govt spends millions of dollars on water purification machines to process the zam-zam water and remove all forms of impurities from it. Besides, it has no any spiritual, healing or supernatural value except the emotion people attach to the water going by the story people were told about the origin of the water which can not even be verified, outside the Islamic circle.

BetWinners:
@emboldened You talking rubbish bruv.[b]Where was the state of Israel in 1946?[/b]Forget all the politics.Realistically speaking,the land called Israel today was forcefully taken...stolen even from the Palestinians

Where was the nation of Nigeria before/in 1913? Charity begins at home. Both Nigeria and Isreal are the creation of the world powers for their economic interest. Israel was created to establish a powerful western military outpost in the middle of the Arab world while Nigeria was created to use the Fulanis as middlemen of the exploitation of the oil resources in the Niger delta region.

Once again, charity begins at home.

Empiree:
I dey come for you later. I know you stubborn despite sorting this out years ago. You just wanna get whipped all over again, correct?

You forgot those threads from 2014-2015?

'You just wanna get whipped again', I don't get that and I can't remember any extensive debate I had with you on this topic. You can as well post the link of the debate for me to see.

Since uncle Mohammed wrote, in the Quran, against the doctrine of the Trinity, which has been official doctrine of the church for more than 500 years before Mohammed was born, can you provide (from the Quran and the hadith) uncle Mohammed's concept of the Trinity. In a clearer language, teach me Muhammed's understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity with reference to the Quran and the authentic hadith.

Empiree:
we already trashed Trinity concept on this platform years ago. Ask true2god and plainbiblettruth and others. They couldn't defend it. Therefore, for you to believe in Trinity and claim to know what Ahad means, then your are facing serious dilemma. So now you can understand why I said Allah's word can not be translated. Because you guys messed up and confused 3 in 1 either in numerical sense or otherwise. However you guys explain the concept of Trinity will always choke you because of distortions in your book.

Therefore, you do not understand ku huwa Allah Ahad

The issue is that Mohammed himself did not understand the concept of the 'Trinity'. Mohammaed taught that the Trinity consist of The father (God almighty), the son (Jesus) and Mary. And to make it worst, Mohamed even taught that the Jews took Ezra as the son of Allah (Quran 9:30).

1 Corinthians 1:18-31, yes the preaching of the nature and personality of Christ is foolishness to them that perish....

sino:
Brother mine, you no see me see wahala like this! In as much as tintingz is a waste of time to ague with, sometimes, showing the deficiencies in his reasoning and arguments helps to put him in his place!

Brother help me laugh small o, see brilliant lines of poetry:

"We shall hang him a hanging,
And choke him, a choking,
As for he who knocks on the door of a harlot, a knocking,"

He actually had to post English translation because he lacks even the simplest knowledge of Arabic grammar, even at that, it is quite obvious the ridiculousness of the nonsense he calls brilliant!



You see when it is said that these atheists here are foolish, it isn't an assumption, but a fact!

You can make your point without attacking someone's personality.

Empiree:
You dont get it, do you?. God revealed Quran simply in a language that we would understand enough to make Janna. But you can not translate God's infinite words and meanings. They are limitless. and are not bound by anything. If what i said confuses you, whose fault is that?. Me?

The bolded is the most irrational argument that only Muslims can rationalize. Arabic is the only language Allah can be communicated with in order to make jannah; so 80% of Muslims who cannot read and speak Arabic are shortchanged because of Allah's irrational policy. The old Muslim woman in Oshogbo, who don't understand a single word in Arabic, must start learning and praying in a foreign language (Arabic) so that when she dies she can make Allah's janna. allah words and meaning cannot be translated because they are limitless, according to your Islamic super-ego, pride, arrogance and supremacist religion who view other languages as inferior to the Arabs. No wonder almost all black Muslims had submitted to 'the Bilal' mentality of mental slavery to the Arabs (Tufiakwa!). For the fact that your Allah can only accept solat made in Arabic shows that he is as fake as 'marykay' and lipsticks.

Empiree:
rolling on the floor Try harder buddy. Why did you pretend like you dont understand my point?. You talking about ayah but i talked about basic tenets. There is no disagreement on the basics. Our basics are believe in Allah is One God. Believe that prophet muhammad is prophet and messenger not God. Let me stop here. No muslims disagree with these. But can you as christians give this clear, unambiguous statements about God and Jesus? As for muslims, there is no different understanding on this except for what is clearly and plainly established. If I put 3 christians next to one another and ask them who is Jesus?. I swear by God they would give different answers. You know this.

Highlight all the basic tenets of Islam and let us dissect them one by one. Even demons also believe in one God (James 2:19), so what difference does it make? And FYI, as part of the basic tenets of Islam, mohammed is assumed as the 'last' and 'seal' of all prophets but the ahmadiyyas will disagree with you. Are the ahmadiyyas not true muslims?

Empiree:
You are a small evangelist to take on me. I dealt with fellow CHRISTIANs who know more than you 4-5yrs ago right here in this platform. And you expect me to go over everything again?. No.


@bold, the simple reason for this is bcus, the foundation on which CHRISTIANITY stands is very shallow and substandard. This paves ways for possible criticisms.

The foundation I am talking about are the tenets of your religion. No Christians have been able to align the dots and explain obvious differences in your Bible is the reason for distortion. For example, if you put 3 CHRISTIANs next to each other and ask them who is Jesus?. You are gonna get different answers. For this reason, no sane human would take your religion serious except for worldly gain.

Islam also presented a more difficult dilemma here. The muslims major text document is not the quran (the quran is only a fraction of Islamic information) but the hadith. If you place 5 Islamic scholars side by side and read an ayah, they will all give a different meaning to it based on the finding they got from either the hadith or the seerah. While Christians even manage their doctrinal differences peacefully, the Muslims go after each other's throat as one will call the other kafir. Please don't even present the argument of which your religion is more guilty of. The buttom-line remains that no any religion that has a uniform belief and interpretation of their scriptures. And with respect to the validity of biblical writings, the bible (unlike the quran) has no central control in terms of production and distribution. The quran also has no surviving manuscript from the time of Uthman Ibn Affan to do a textual criticism of the quran by relating it to its source document. Why? The source document were burnt by Uthman. And note that the quran has 7 different reading of which the Hafs reading is the most popular. All other reading have slight differences from the most popular haf's reading.

Please do not make a case of which you are also a major offender.

Empiree:
you are a known bigot. I didn't say Arabic in itself can not be translated. I said Quran can not be translated. Quran is the word of Allah. You can not translate Allah's word. You can only explain it. The moment you translate from arabic Quran it loses the ingredients and authenticity. That's why, if you read English quran or other language, your are only reading the "translations of the meaning".

You are mixing things up here as a result of excessive brainwashing. Your submission could have been 'the Quran should not be translated' instead of 'the quran cannot be translated'. There is no book that cannot be translated while retaining the context of the original language, unless you want to tell me that all Arab speakers are ignorant (of other languages) that they cannot do a good job of translatiing their quran to other languages. The issue is that you are merely using semantic to cover the inadequacies and inconsistencies in your quran. The submission you give now is one of the dumbest I have ever seen in my life.

Empiree:
This is why we can not pray daily salat in language other than language of The Quran. And because Quran is in Arabic does not mean all Arabs understood it. No. You can not translate God's words. You may only explain the meanings. But the translated meanings are sufficient for us to get things done.

The reason you cannot pray in other language is that if you do, the prayer will not make any sense to a crtitical mind of the person listening to it in his mother-tongue. And since many muslims do not even understand the meaning of the prayers, vis-a-vis Arab language itself, it is same parroting it to the gullble while they say 'AMIN' at the end. Your Al-fathia (the beginning, quran 1:1-7) is a great testimony to this fact. As a take away, who was speaking in quran 1:1-7? Is it Allah, Jibril or mohammed?

Empiree:
smh... Quran is in arabic and can never be translated to any language. It can only be explained in english etc. So why waste your time?. Post your question and let's breath in peace. What clear is, you can never say anything new

This is very lame and arrogant excuse. There is no any language, in this modern era, that can never be translated to another language. If this is the official policy of Islam with respect to the Arabic quran then the Arabs should not tell us that Islam is a religion for all. Over 80% of muslims cannot speak Arabic and so, by your own submission, Muslims must learn Arabic in order to understand the quran. This is purely brainwashing and mental slavery! The truth is that the quran, if translated to Yoruba language, will make no sense to any Yoruba man since there will be no Yoruba hadith or Yoruba seerah to clear up the confusions and inconsistencies in the quran.

tintingz:
He's a Quranist, he doesn't believe in the Hadith.

A quranist is simply a fake muslim. The quran does not specify the sunnah of the Islamic prophet and not even detailed enough to guide in a day-to-day Islamic practices.

tintingz:
I disagree, i don't think the arabs in 7th century were all illiterates.

I don't see how this is a miracle and make any sense. Anybody can formulate anything out like a puzzle.

Why not present this numerical miracle of the Quran and it usefulness.

Mention them.

And where is the splitted moon?

I can write a well rational and scientific revelation that will beat the Quran challenge.

Unfortunately the Quran didn't mention any parameters as to meet the Quran challenge.

Lol. Dont mind 'usermane'. He is already writing his thesis on how to become a kafir. He will soon graduate to become a kafir like me and others.

Episteme2:
This is one act of betrayal. Your boss lost in a most unfair, rigged and incredible contest. His court case has just begun and you couldn't even wait for the court to rule before resigning. People are mindlessly insensitive and wicked. Someone's campaign director once purportedly tipped to be SGF if his boss won could not even hide his trachery for a little while. You all had better pray against fair weather friends. They hurt a lot.

Is Gbenga Daniel a Yoruba man?

May the souls of the deceased rest in peace.

usermane:
Peace.

To challenge the Qur'an based on this verse, bear these in mind:

Qur'an was an outstanding literature for the 7th century Arabia. Especially, given that illiteracy was norm then and there. At the time of its revelation, Written Arabic was still at infancy.

Next, the Qur'an seem to possess a very elaborate and intricate numeric pattern that is embedded in the text and that many Muslims today are completely awed by. This is regarded as the Numerical Miracles of Qur'an.

Then the purported scientific miracles.

And lastly the purported prophecies like splitting of the moon.

Not that I mean to advocate for the Qur'an, only just contributing what I feel is necessary to keep in mind if one is to take on the Qur'an's challenge.

Quite interesting! If only you can justify your claims by providing evidence from Islamic source documents.

Its unfortunate that my fellow Muslims have refused to take up the challenge of proving that no one can produce a similar book similar to the GLORIOUS Quran. The Quran is said to be so eloquent and well written that no book can be compared to it. Is this claim an exaggeration, a fact or a lie? I need my fellow Muslims to defend this claim.

Zoharariel:
If & when WW3 breaks out, Nigeria will be invaded & overrun by predators who have been coveting her Natural Resources for decades.

I read some submissions by some ignoramuses up there saying Nigeria will declare neutrality when it happens.

That is akin to a situation where Armed Bandits invade a community, and then a beautiful duplex or mansion without a fence, gate & burglary - stocked with Gold Bars & Forex and guarded by catapult & stick-wielding security guards - decides to declare neutrality in the face of hardened bandits carrying Laser-Guided Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPGs) & General Purpose Machine Guns (GPMGs spitting 2000 rounds per minute)

What do you think will happen?

Seemingly reminiscent of a scenario that played-out during the WW2.

Adolf Hitler & Joseph Stalin had signed the "Molotov-Ribbentrop pact" on August 23, 1939.

This was a non-aggression pact between Germany and the Soviet Union that would ensure peace for the next 10 years. This pact also contained secret details on how to split Eastern Europe. With this treaty, Hitler sealed his Eastern front and could concentrate his efforts on France and Britain.

This meant that unlike WW1 when Germany had to fight a two-front war, they could now concentrate all of their resources on the west. Hitler finally got the breathing space he needed to take Poland and strike France with all his might. Stalin, on the other hand, had just purged his military of all top officials. He needed time to build up his army without the threat of an attack. It was a win-win situation for both dictators.

Despite the mutual non-aggression pact, the Soviets and the Germans were not on good terms. The Nazis were against the spread of communism, and the Soviets were against Nazi ideologies.

Now, Germany was not self-sufficient in raw materials. This included food as well as oil, essentials for a war effort. These raw materials were imported from the Soviet Union in exchange for technology, but if this trade was stopped, Germany could not continue to fight. This concerned Hitler, as he did not trust Stalin to keep his promise. The only way to secure his supply of raw materials was to attack the Soviet Union and capture its fields and oil reserves.

What's more, Hitler wanted the vast extent of the Soviet Union as a living space to be repopulated by the German people. He also wanted the resources present in the Soviet Union, especially the oil reserves. He hoped to swiftly capture Moscow before the onset of winter, and he expected the Soviet Union to collapse like it did in the first World War.

Hitler’s plan relied on one major gamble: He predicted that his blitzkrieg attack would take the Soviets by surprise and that they would capture Moscow before the onset of winter. With the capture of their capital, the Soviets would lose their will to fight and surrender to the Germans. But even though there was a major success in the initial stages of the war, the Germans gravely underestimated the resources the Soviets had.

The rest - as they say is history.

The Soviets did 80% of the fighting & dying while the Amerikan bastards rode in on their white horses & shining armor towards the tail end of the war - to claim all the glory.

Now, back to the topic.

What do you think will happen when Britain & France run out of Oil to power their Fighter Jets, War Ships & Battle Tanks - knowing-fully well that there is a useless & unproductive Country inside a jungle in West Afrika called Nigeria with vast Natural Resources that will serve their interest during & after WW3?

Your guess is as good as mine.

Unless you Tramadol-popping, Shisha-smoking & Olosho-fvcking dunder-heads mobilize your lazy akpu-eating asses & seize power now - and then install Me (Zoharariel Underscore Obatala - The Son of Putin & The Right Hand of Rogozin & The Left Hand of Shoygu & The Samurai Sword of Kim Jong-Un) as the Lord Marshall of The Federal Republic of Nigeria with "Comrade Appleyard" as the Prime Minister, with "Comrade Scully95" as the Defence Minister so that we can purge & re-organize the entire Nigerian Armed Forces with sophisticated & state of the art military equipments for the Army, Navy & Airforce, walahi talahi sumobilahi li azim - what the iFUKUSA (Israel, France, UK & USA) will do to your Parents, Wives, Daughters & yourselves will be worse than what is currently happening in Libya, Afghanistan & Iraq.

WW3 has not broken out yet, but Cameroon (which is more equipped than Nigeria & with the approval of France) is already taunting & killing your soldiers at the southern border while invading Bakassi Communities & ransacking their villages.

A poster up there said Nigeria has 6-7 F7 Fighter Jets operational.

Yes! Ebele Jonathan bought 7 units of outdated single-engine F7 Fighter Jets but two of those useless jets crashed last year during the rehearsal for the independence day, in addition to the one that was shot down by Boko Haram in Adamawa about 2 - 3 years ago - and they have not been replaced.

https://www.nairaland.com/4759290/photo-nigerian-air-force-jet

In conclusion, Whenever you're ready to securing your vulnerable Country from the impending doom that is destined to befall you before 2020, I will be at my private bunker inside my family house in Ijebu - drinking my Trophy Lager Beer & smoking my Benson Boost Cigarettes.

Until then, adios Amigos! Hahahahahahaaa!

Korect guy! I gbadun your analysis; very cool and precise. iFUKUSA will surely claim the ND oil.

tintingz:
Lol, I find the challenge ridiculous, I mean what's so special about it that it likes can't be produce.

The Quran is even poorly written with very simple words.

It is like a 'beer parlour' statement where one asks the other: do you think you can get my kind of Jeans anywhere in the market? This is the most irrational challenge one can ever get.

ChangeIsCostant:
A Nigerian pastor shut down the streets of Aba, Abia state, while flaunting his newly acquired Hummer limousine few days ago.

The pastor popularly known as Dr. Intercessor Jehovah (The Demon Destroyer), who is the general overseer of the Holy Ghost Searchlight & Deliverance ministry based in Abia, took to the streets with his security to show/dedicate his new automobile as his church members and others hailed him.

According to reports, the latest acquisition is said to be the pastor's third Hummer Limo.

Watch the video below.

See more; https://www.nationalhelm.co/2019/03/dr-intercessor-jehovah-acquires-new-hummer-limousine-shows-it-off-in-abia.html

Guy man ripping off his mugus.

tintingz:
Salaam Alaikum,

The Quran made a claim by Challenging jinns and humans to produce the like of the Quran, like producing a book just like the Quran.

Say: If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another. (Quran 17:88)
.

This is surely the word of a drunkard; it makes no sense at all (except to my fellow...).

usermane:
Ha ha ha ha! Nigerian educational system is a failure.

No two waters meet without mixing, given sufficient time. Depending on density there forms an interface between them, a kind of partition that we see. But this is not true partition as the water are continually mixing across the partition, albeit at molecular level.

I think there could be miracle in this verse if it tells that the waters do actually mix, since people thought they didn't. Instead the verse seem to tell otherwise by describing the partition between the seas as "inviolable/forbidden", which is not true.

You are a good Muslim.