₦airaland Forum

[quote author=i.chuka]Who told you His throne was empty.He left His Divinity/His Godly nature in Heaven and came down and took the form of a man,a servant to be precise....Phlippns2:6-8..He even send His Spirit back to Heaven before His death...Luke23:47.
His Divinity is that which makes Him God.[/quote]^^

this is one of the most st.upid things i have ever heard on NL.

Smh

.

frosbel: To Yahweh belongs all the glory, honour and power.

There is none like our GOD , who can be compared to him , or likened to him, who is his equal.

God is forever ONE and eternal , no MAN has seen him, but his SON has he revealed who is the express image of his person, coming to show us the Father.

"To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One." - Isaiah 40:25

"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a

"son of man",

coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the

"Ancient of Days"

and was led into his presence" - Daniel 7:13

thank you frosbel.

Bidam: dats talking about Christ supremacy..ok.lemme use nature to explain scripture..u re a copy of ur father are u not? Does dat means u re a servant to ur father? Does dat means you are in anyway lesser than you father in terms of the authority, inheritance, attributes, DNA,blood group, etc..He carries? You cannot be greater nor lesser than your father..you can only be like him.

^^^

see folly!

Is there any sense in that or is that analogy true?

Bidam: U re a copy of ur father are u not? Does dat means u re a servant to ur father? Does dat means you are in anyway lesser than you father in terms of the authority, inheritance, attributes,

but that is lacking in wisdom and does show how trinity has destroyed your brain and ability to reason.

A king = father and his son = the prince dont have the same authority with his father.

Smh.

ijawkid: Smh!!!!!!........go and read isaiah my freind and see things for yourself...........long before Jesus was sent,the scriptures ideÑtified him as Gods holy servant.........even Jesus openly acknowledged he is GODs servant when on earth.....then 1 corinthians 15:24-28 which you and bidam have been dodging shows Jesus would remain the subject or subordinate he is forever..........
______________________________

Look at these respective scriptures and then go to sleep....

Isaiah 53:11
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be
satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will
justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
_______________________________
Matthew 12:17 $ 18

17 This was
to fulfill what was spoken
through the prophet Isaiah:
18 “Here is[b]my servant[/b] whom
I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I
delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice
to the nations.
________________________________
Acts 3:13
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified
his[b]servant[/b] Jesus. You handed him over to be
killed, and you disowned him before Pilate,
though he had decided to let him go
_______________________________

Jesus remains a servant and a subordinate to GOD yesterday,today and forever more..........

That is why GOD calls Jesus my holy servant and Jesus in
turn calls the Father my GOD..........

These are clear truths you have chosen to walk away from............just as
we are and remain slaves of CHRIST §o also CHRIST is and remains a slave(servant) of GOD..........chikena.............

________________________________

And I'm leaving your thread.............bye bye.....

I cry for christiandom


see what trinity has done.

Na wao!

Someone said that Jesus is the power of Yahweh and without Jesus Yahweh cannot do anything! Wao. Is it insanity?

ok, why was Yahweh able to resurrect Jesus when he died and was in the Grave?

Jesus committed his spirit to his father that cannot do anything!

Is it a mental problem that caused someone to make that statement?

It is really a pity for the person that said that.

Trinity is a curse to christianity.

plappville: I thought we're through with this dogma?
This doctrine strong ooo....

am surprise that some people are still telling us that Jesus is Yahweh.

Smh.

Well, not all of them were around when this issues were initially discussed, so, others that carry this lie will still come up with it.

debosky: The Roman law in application at the time also had restrictions against women speaking out in public - it is possible that Paul’s instruction was in line with this. See Clarke’s commentary on the bible:

Nor to usurp authority - A woman should attempt nothing, either in public or private, that belongs to man as his peculiar function. This was prohibited by the Roman laws

so far so good from you except this ^^^.

well, from this ^^ in your post are we to rule out the action of the holyspirit in all of paul's writing or we should take some and leave some out?

Can we say it is not a hard and fast rule when it comes to women leading the congregation?

Considering that "the Romans influence him".
(hopeing i did not misunderstood you)
peace.

ifeness: The earth was created by some explosion in the stars just like every other trillions of planets out there. How do i explain this to a primitive man ? Lol. Just like the mountains created themselves as a result of energy explosion,the earth came into existence in a similar way.

Sometimes when i see a mad man on the street talking to himself "senselessly" i conclude wrongly that all those that are mad are in that state and sometimes unclad, how wrong i was, never knew that some are properly clad and makes use of modern technology and internet.

(i really have to update that notion)

ijawkid: Would u deny that verses 22-30 of proverbs 8 wasn't talking about Jesus??.........

And I agree colossians 1:17-18 did say Jesus is firstborn from the dead,which conveys the same meaning with Jesus being the firstborn of all creation.....

Jesus was the first to ressurect and would be the agent through which Yahweh would ressurect aLl other persons...........Jesus is part of the family or group of those who died and who experienced ressurection but the first of that group(Jesus didn't evade death to later be called firstborn from the dead)...........the same with Jesus being the firstborn of all creation.....Jesus is the one person Yahweh created directly and the first of Yahwehs creative works,then Jesus became the agent through which Yahweh created all other things.......Jesus is part of the group of the created,but the first of them all.............the bible explains itself...............

fine man.

Just as Jesus is the first born of all creation since he was the first Yahweh created personally and later used him to create every other things in heaven and on earth.

So also he is the first resurected by Yahweh personally from the death to mortal spirit life in heaven and the last to be so resurected personally by yahweh.

Again, like in creation, yahweh has handed over all other Resurection to Jesus both in heaven and on earth.

Just like yahweh handed over creation to him(Jesus) after Jesus was personally created first by Yahweh.

[quote author=enigma_otr]The Mighty One told Moses in Exodus 6:4 that HE is "YAHWEH". John 5:43 made me understand that the Messiah has come in the Name of HIS FATHER. By implication, Jesus can not be the real name of the SAVIOUR because it has no similarity to the Name of the Mighty One, YAHWEH. The real Name of the Saviour is YAHSHUA which means, YAHWEH saves. I don't understand why most versions of the Bible replace these names with titles that has pagan origins. That's by the way.
YAHSHUA no doubt is the begotten Son of YAHWEH and we are made to understand that both are One. The Messiah is never a man. John 1 called Him The Word and that nothing was made without Him. He also proved to us that He's not a man when He said in John 8:58 that He's been existing before Abraham was. He also said that all powers on heaven and on earth Have been given unto Him and that whatever we ask in His Name, He shall do. He also said in John 14:6 that He's the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one goes to the Father except by Him. The Scripture make me understand that the Creator is YAHWEH and Has a Son YAHSHUA who laid down His life for our salvation. Through this, no other Name under the heaven by which we can be saved. You can't claim to know the Father if you don't know the Son. Whether you acknowledge YAHSHUA as One who is more than just a man or not, He's the only Way to salvation. Do you believe that He's the Messiah? Do you believe that He died for your sins, was buried and resurrected? Do you believe that He's the way, the Truth and the Life and the only Way to the Father is through Him? Do you believe that He's got all powers in heaven and on earth? Do you believe that there is no name by which you can be saved except by His? Do you believe that whatsoever you asked in His Name, he does? If your answers are yes and you're still arguing on this topic, i say, why argue on what can not save your soul? But if by chance, your answers to any of my questions are no, then you can't be blamed.[/quote]

Bidam: @ijawkid, when i mean an exhaustive exposition...am not talking about only your thots on this issue with your long lengthy and boring literal translations..i mean compare it with other authorities with greek and hebrew texts ok? Others can please help us out in prov 8(all of it) and col 1 : 15-22.

when you say "other authority", what exactly do you mean?

Do you mean other trinitarians authorities?
Because that is where we have the majority since trinity is the central doctrine of christiandom.

Are you saying the truth is no longer found in the bible again?

Have you seen your life?

Now i know where and why you believe a lie because You put you confidence in men.

@Ijawkid is a bible student and not the tradition of men.

Wishing you the best in your endeavours though.

Bidam: @ijawkid [/b]shey you see wetin [b]enilove talk abi
later you go talk say na lie i dey lie..see dat your head like niger delta.lol

what enilove said was his personal opinion and understanding.

You will want to use that to prove your point now abi? Lol.

All other scriptures that he quoted are nothing only the one that suite your twisting.
Sorry to disappoint you friend.

enilove: As christians there are somethings we need to undetstand so that the unbelievers will not continue in their idol worshipping ,because of our own lack of understanding of the bible and refusal to read it and allow the spirit of God to minister unto us.Jesus said we are the light of the world.meaning we are to show others the way.
In the book of Proverb chapter 8:23-36 reads
"I was set up from evarlasting ,from biginning,or ever the earth was.When there were no depths,when there were no fountains abounding with water.Before the mountains were settled,b4 the hills was I brought forth:While as yet he had not made the earth,nor the highest part of the dust of the world.When he prepared the heavens,I was there :when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:when he established the clouds above :when he strenghened the fountains of the deep:................verse 30 "Then I was by him,as one brought up with him:and I was daily his delight,rejoicing always b4 him:verse 34 -35 says " for whoso findeth me findeth life,but he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul and they all that hate me love death.
From the above scripture you can bring out words like I WAS BROUGHT FORTH ,I WAS SET UP when God the father was creating the universe.
Jesus Christ is different from God Almighty .
The words Almighty God is a title not a name .
God is a title as you can see where God told the Israelites"thou shall worship no other gods beside me"
Almighty on the other hand means .... having relatively unlimited power.
In Philipians 2:6 It tells us that Jesus christ has the form of God.A two year old lion is a lion,because its form is that of a lion.
Jesus Christ is God ,but remember that God is title ,that was why God Almighty gave His name to Moses.He did not say "My name is God"Jesus Christ too has a name,his was not named God. You can see that the name God gave to Moses is different from Jesus's name.
They are two different parsonalities but united in purpose or oneness in purpose ,principles and everyother thing.
A man and his wife are one.but two people if you remove marriage.
Jesus christ said I and my father are one.When he was baptised the voice came from heaven saying "this is my beloved son in whom am well pleased"
Jesus christ kept saying "my father in heaven".when he was crucified he told the thief on his right hand that he would be with his father in heaven.More than 50 times in the bible the Lord Jesus Christ said MY FATHER.
Before raising up Lazarus from the dead , he prayed to his father in heaven.You can not tell me that he was praying to himself .

Philipians2:9 says "God has highly exalted Jesus Christ and given him a name that is above all names"
This means God the father is existing and different from Jesus His son.
Gen.41:44 Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh,without thee shall no man lift up his hands or foot in the land of Egypt.verse 55 says when there was famine in the land the people cried to Pharoah for bread,which Pharaoh gave unto them by telling them to go and meet Joseph.Likewise we ask God for all thing through our Lord Jesus Christ.

You are correct in saying that the book of revelation called Jesus Almighty God and also the Alpha and the Omega. Infact it was Jesus christ himself that gave that testimony ,and we know Jesus can not lie or does not lie.Jesus is actually Alpha and Omega.But that is a title.And Jesus did not say I am the only Alpha and Omega.Joseph was given all the power in Egypt but not above Pharaoh.
When you read further that book of revelation chpter1:18 Jesus christ says "I am he that liveth and was dead and behold ,I am alive for evermore.
From here Jesus Christ gave messages to John for the 7 churches from Chapter 1to chapter 3 .In chapter 3:12 Jesus said he that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and will write upon him the name of my God.This means Jesus has a God.verse 14 Jesus Christ says that he is the beginning of the creation of God.Likewise revelation 3:21 Jesus testifies that "I am set down with my father on the throne.
The above was the complete or conclusion of message given by Jesus to John.Confirming that God is on the throne.

Joseph was ruling the people of Egypt but not ruling Pharaoh that gave him the authority and one of his chariots to ride on. He also said every Egyptian must bow their knee to Joseph.Likewise in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ every knee must bow.But not the knee of his Father Almighty God.
It is written for God so love the world that he gave His only begotten son ,that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but ,but have everlasting life.This is in that proverb also and in Revelation 5:1-9.showing why the lord Jesus christ came ,when he took the book from the hand of Almighty God.

When you quote the bible in a middle way you may not fully understand it until you read it to the end and allow the spirit of God to minister to you.

The children of the bond woman who are being lead by the devil in perpetrating evil arround the world now, may continue if we do not read our bible and pray for them.When we are ask one or two questions and you do not know or give you own opinion as the answer because you did not read the bible for understanding.How would they be convinced .

The devil is not foolish ,he will set up augument among brothers so as to have his way.His doing so now succesfully among christians.
Some find it hard to believe that God have a son,because they are trying to bring God to their level , thinking there must be a wife b4 one can have a child.
How much more to say he is still the Almighty God the father by virtue or trait of mere title and neglecting all the written fact and given meaning to something you did not fully understand.
In the biginning was the word ,and the word was with God,and the word was God. The word was with God, means, two personalities with the title God.
The same was in the biginning with God.Confirming proverb 8:23 to the end.

Please let me know where am wrong with bible references.

Thank you and Stay blessed.

fine write up.

The book of Revelation is a revelation to John via an angel from Jesus christ who in turn got the revelation from his father yahweh.

The angel consecutively repeat the names or titles of the father and the son all through the book of revelation.

The title first and the last is both shared by Jesus and the father for obvious reasons.

But the title Alpha and Omega is an exclusive of the father.

Note that the mention of the one is followed by the mention of the other (mention of the son is followed by the mention of the father) either by titles or by names.

But the name of the Father have been removed by trinitarians as to project their trinity concept.
Peace.

Image123: who is this one? making up excuses. We should go to the jews to learn? learn what na? have you not read that the jews are blind? Are you content with been led by the blind, when the Spirit of God is verily available if you can believe?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

Its like frosbel and Kunle were right about you that you are a fraud.

I said one should go to the "Jewish OT" in my write up but you instead wish to attack a different topic as to cover the truth Revelation pointed out.

Did i ask that anybody should go to the Jewish people or that they should go to the Jewish OT?

truthislight: "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:19).
,,,,,,,,,,,,,..........

^^^

1. it shows that human can tamper with it.

2. But they will loose out on everlasting life.

3. But "this book" will ever be around by God's will for all times.

Translation to pigin english and dialect may not always employ the right words to convey the original sense for lack of appropriate words. (being that they are pegan and use of pegan words)

But that ^^ should not introduce pegan idears into the word of God.

We can always go back to the Jews to learn what and how such sense was used in the OT, being that lots of sense in the NT is quoting the OT.
Peace.

Smh for you.

Ubenedictus: dis is y i never like discussing with u, u just like to throw trantrums, what led to ur comment abt twisting? U have to state sumting wrong wit my opinion not just start screaming twisting or lies. Abeg u, abeg no use all dis accusation tire me, if u no wan talk wit me just keep quite no just begin accuse me wen u no sabi show me d stuff wey d correct.
Abeg ur accusation tactics tire me, if u no get ansa to my points keep quite.

imagined greeks and Romans owning Jewish inheritance and tradition.

Christianity originated from the Jews. QED.

Only someone that wants to be deceived has time for adultration.

OLAADEGBU: Who is hating on you? You better see the likes of us as the wind that blows your cover.

dont spoil your initial work by being "worldly wise".
Peace

Ubenedictus: d chasm of infallibility doesnt delete tradition or scripture, it can only uphold it. Just d way anyone wu says "JESUS isn't lord" isnt from isnt from God so will one wu denies a point of tradition or scripture never become a pope.
Where u see idolatry, i see legit veneration, dat is what d earlier xtians practiced it and so does all ancient churches.

Hmmm!

An oath of alligance is a very big obstacle!

Hmmm!,
the scriptures are secondary.

Na wao!

OLAADEGBU: The Scripture calls them fools. Check it out in Psalm 14:1.

ok, seen.
Thanks a million.

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:19).
,,,,,,,,,,,,,..........

^^^

1. it shows that human can tamper with it.

2. But they will loose out on everlasting life.

3. But "this book" will ever be around by God's will for all times.

Translation to pigin english and dialect may not always employ the right words to convey the original sense for lack of appropriate words. (being that they are pegan and use of pegan words)

But that ^^ should not introduce pegan idears into the word of God.

We can always go back to the Jews to learn what and how such sense was used in the OT, being that lots of sense in the NT is quoting the OT.
Peace.

Ubenedictus: ignoratio elenchi, i never use d bolded words, u are argueing against urself. I cant help u wen u continue to attack ur own strawman.
Your continous used of "lies!" can be likened to a kid throwning trantrum.
I also didnt say d apostles were sent only to d greeks, i instead said that John who was reaching a principally greek audience will speak in ideas understandable to dem. I really cant help u if u cant understand dat simple point.

Imagine!

Is religion supposed to be all about twisting or about stating the facts/truth?

" This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
"But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I implore thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the "Son of God".

"Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power(God) , and coming in the clouds of heaven. " (Matthew 26:61-64)

1. the Jews never thought him to be almighty God.

2. Jesus did not say so even when put under oath.

You are on your own.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]Hi JeSoul. My sister, happy new year to you too. Thank you for your kind words. Yes, a couple in a true marriage will not be s.exually attracted to some one else. The bond between such a husband and wife is of a "frequency" or "wavelength" that is different from that that emanates from others that are single, in non-genuine marriages and other genuine marriages. Now genuine marriage is not static but mobile and that means that the couples involved must continue to strengthen their love for one another and for GOD, as well as further develop those innate qualities which made them spiritually and psychically compatible in the first place. If one or both become negligent, stagnate or willfully refuse to further develop, then the living connection which their union established with the power of GOD begin to loosen, the strong bonds brought about by their genuine love and compatible qualities begin to weaken. They weaken because they are no longer maintained due to negligence, stagnation or indolence. Because of the weakened bond as I explained above, impure thoughts about others can begin to arise. Initially it may just be faint but if the couple continue to weaken the bonds as I explained above, then slowly but inevitably, a marriage that was once genuine no longer exists even though the couples may not be aware of it in the earthly sense. Thus what was once a genuine marriage may end up in divorce or in a soulless non-genuine marriage where all happiness have departed from them.

It is for this reason that we are admonished to "watch and pray". A bird in flight must continue to flab its wings to maintain itself in flight. If the bird loses its alertness and willfully refuse to flab its wings, it will start to descend and will fatally crash to the ground. This crude analogy can be applied to genuine marriages where the couples suddenly stagnate or refuse to further develop and mature the qualities that GOD endowed them with. Motion is a law of creation and there is no exception. Thus if a couple in genuine marriage start having s.exual feelings about others in thoughts, words, intent, imagination,physical action, then something has gone wrong and unless they muster all strength to strengthen the bond linking both of them, as well as the bond linking them to GOD, then these bonds will finally be cut off and the genuine marriage ceases to exist. "Watch and pray" are no empty words. It is a sacred call to spiritual mobility and alertness. As always stay blessed.[/quote]of what value then was there of a "union ordained" from heaven?

What will happened to a union in which the laws of God is not kept as stated in the bible though the parties are imperfect?

Same thing, failure

Oga Nwankwo, good day.

I never said that people cannot have an "Ideal" marriage or close to ideal.

I said that, people have to keep to the laws as to avoid encroaching on other peoples right, and remove deliberate abuse and exploitation resulting from experimentation from premarital S.ex.

What is wrong if all sort of people wait to be properly married befor beginning with the act of S.ex?

Must one enter into s.exual activity with the notion of marriage and later finds out incompatibility issues and dissolves the engagement and start another?

Such vicious circles is avoidable only if people are willing to key into a trusted and tested reliable source of moral guidance.

What you are projecting, is it for real? Are we not leaving in this planet earth?
Are we strangers as to not know the realities of things?

The truth is that without reliable laws to guide human we are at a lost and this applies to all sphere of human endeavours including courtship and s.ex.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]The union of a man and a woman who are meant for each other follows the same process as a tendril of yam.[/quote]you dont tell me? Is that true or you are advertising "abstract" idealism?

[quote author=m_nwankwo]They are drawn to the purifying powers of GOD just like a tendril of yam is drawn to sunlight. The s.exual intinct is relegated to where it naturally belongs.[/quote]lol.
You cant be serious.
Is that true and real?
That human s.exual urges dies due to whatever you project untill you meet the "perfect" mating mate?

I thing what you are projecting is inherently flawed since it is not in consonant with human nature but is appealing to ideal human wishes and expectation.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]Man was not created imperfect and whatever imperfection[/quote]yes,
man was not created imperfect, but man brought imperfection to himself as it is obvious to all of us from the reality on ground that we all make mistakes, even in the judgement of potential marriage mate cum sexual partner. As such, it is very much advisable to exercise restrain during courtship befor iniating s.ex, and that when one has made sure of all things and marriage is ensured/convananted.



[quote author=m_nwankwo]you find in man is brought about by man himself by the misapplication of his free will.[/quote]agreed.

So, what is the way forward since we humans have brought imperfection to ourself?

Is it not to follow the interim remedial laws provided by God or to start acting as though we are perfect?

[quote author=m_nwankwo]Man can restore himself to "perfection" by aligning his free will with the will of GOD.[/quote]what?
can the one sold ransom himself?

That is why i had said we cannot just be projecting things without a reliable scale as reference.

My bible tells me that without blood there is no forgiveness of sin.

What did Jesus christ do? Was it a west of his time?

Do you believe in the bible? If i may ask.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]If one swim in sync with the water current, one will be carried ashore with effortless ease. If one swim against the current, one will dissipate all his energy and will get drowned. The same applies to how one applies himself to the laws of GOD.[/quote]if we know how to become perfect why then do we need the christ?

Assumption from imaginations cannot fixe our situation but rather, practical procedures will.

All those into spiritism all through human history were still imperfect and having marital issues, as such, your "spiritual" projections still falls into the "lot"

[quote author=m_nwankwo]My point is that being in a union with one that the laws of GOD meant for you permits one to conquer the morbidity of over cultivated s.exual instinct.[/quote]how? You have not yet shown how. Must i become a convert first? Smh.

"Christianity" is practical and shows "the how" to attain perfection.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]I can give practical guidance but giving a set of do`s and dont`s often get people fixated to the concepts and impedes the mobility of the spirit.[/quote]Hmmm!

It has limitations? I see.

[quote author=m_nwankwo]Spiritual mobility is an indispensable requirement for genuine spiritual growth.[/quote]we have heard such befor and all the times, nothing new.

Some people have tried it befor only to fall into uncontrol sexu.al escaped. (satanic)

please, state the process like christianity does, please.

Peace.

plappville: Did i create this thread to know if burn or buried bodies go to heaven or not? Am i the one that decides who goes to Heaven?
Should the church bury an atheist? and should the church perform cremation? Behave as if you no understand the thread and keep asking me questions you know so well i am not in position to answer.

i dong dey vex o!.

Make people leave my pp alone o.

Imagine all this questions.

State your point and move jor.


she also efficiently made her stance clear.

Goshen360: @ Dear brother debosky,

Here is what I mostly do in trying to seek the truth. If Apostle Paul wrote to Corinthians and talked about women being silent in church gathering and the same Apostle wrote to Timothy, I (personally) will take ALL OF HIS WORDS AND TEACHINGS TOGETHER, COMPARE AND CONTRAST in order to find out what he was saying.

Going back to the context of Timothy and Corinthians, as I also had some hard time dealing with this subject in the past. Why will Paul just say women should be 'silence'? On what ground? I sought after the answer - you will agree with me that the Corinthians church are most carnal Christians during Paul's time. Like I said, if being silence means complete shut up, then there isn't any reasonable point women singing, leading praying point, etc.

On the context of Timothy, I come to the stand that the teaching aspect is an aspect of defining doctrine. Like you said, one might still be unsure weather things said by the Apostle is the Lord's instruction or personal especially when we consider the use of "I" by Apostle Paul. Well, it's okay for us to disagree at times while we seek the truth of God's word.

We might consider this scriptures by Apostle Paul still,

New Living Translation (©2007)
But among the Lord's people, women are not independent of men, and men are not independent of women. - 1 Corinthians 11:11

the consistency of paul's arrangement of things in the congregation as regard headship does not give room for that ^^.

His letter though to corinth or timothy is a model to all congregation.

This arrangement below shows consistency:

debosky: I don't agree with this interpretation - if that was Paul's meaning, he would've included women in the next chapter when describing attributes of a Bishop. No one is saying the woman is in submission to men, but clearly a Bishop/leader acts in authority - if those under authority include men(women) then it goes against the content in 1 Timothy.

Personally, the best one can say is that Paul was simply recognising the societal hierarchy at the time and giving his own opinion, and not divine instruction. In absence of this, you can't really justify women leading congregations looking at Paul's teachings.

debosky: Going by Paul's words, you cannot but conclude that he did not consider women as Bishops/overseers of a congregation, given that he only mentions men in this role.

As for 1 Timothy 2:11-13, I'm still unclear as to what Paul's intention was here - in one vein it seems he is simply reinforcing the order of Adam before Eve, He does clearly say he doesn't permit - I'm not clear if that is a personal belief or a divine instruction, neither am I clear about how women are 'saved' through childbirth.

Whether he was simply recognising the hierarchy recognised in his day or giving instructions for use in perpetuity, I don't know.

However, we do know that churches met in women's houses - did those women lead those congregations or did men do?

I don't think women praying or prophesying has anything to do with leadership - everyone is enjoined to pray and prophesy - those are completely different from teaching or holding 'authority'.

well, thanks for allowing the scriptures to stand.

Goshen360: Thank you my dear sister. Let's get into the root,

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - 1 Timothy 2:12 http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=2&v=12&t=KJV#conc/12

Go to the root of my words (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G831&t=KJV) and we can understand what our Apostle was saying. The word "usurp authority" is the Greek word "authenteō" that means 1) one who with his own hands kills another or himself. 2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic. 3) an absolute master. 4) to govern, exercise dominion over one.

Off course, the word of God doesn't permit a woman to exercise authority/dominion and act in her own authority without any consultation with her husband; over a man that she's married to. She is to be submissive. It doesn't mean a woman cannot lead God's people in truth and righteousness when she is submissive to her husband. Again, the context of "man" here is to her husband for a womAn cannot be in submission to mEn. The context is singular woman to singular man, not woman to mEn.

you dont need to run around to define and cover the word of God to pass on your own personal opinion, allow the words of the apostles to stand.

Dont let your "authority" surpass that of the apostles o!

We are talking about the house hold of God and you run to the home?

Abeg, those words are clear and does not need a dictator definition to come in since no one is a dictator in the congregation, not men, not even the example of christ.

The gospel is clear on how christians are to deal with one another. No one is ever a dictator but they are to follow the example of christ.

The bible is clear on the headship arrangement in the congregation.

The bible calls women a large army.

plappville: Jesus is a good example, apart from the fact he had no female disciples,

that ^^ can be a pointer to something.

plappville: Paul cannot mean a woman should seal her mouth in the Church.

paul did not say such.
But the issue is the issue of hardship over men, Expercialy were there are baptised qualified men.

In the absent of qualified men, the women play a large role in spreading the gospel.

plappville: This is wrong interpretation. But at thesame time. I do not think its an easy task for a woman to head a Church.

thank you.

It is wrong to interpret it to means that women should seal their mouth.

But the issue is the issue of headship in the christian congregation where there are qualified men and not just "men" that cannot even teach or are not even baptised.

It is not about discrimination but rather to ensure proper arrangement in the congregation.

Women can make comment and answer questions, but we know what taking the role of qualified men entails.
Peace.

Goshen360: Silence in this context means "hold your or one's peace". It doesn't connote one to shut up. Letters to the Corinthians church was written as a scroll not, in chapters as we have it now. If silence means keep quite as we have interpreted it to mean, then same Apostle will not later write "Every woman that prays or prophecy..." because both praying and prophesying involves one to talk/speak. Abi na mute activated style praying and prophecy dey happen ni?

We know what leading the congregation means or what it means to preside over the congregation.

We know what teaching the congregation means.

Does relating a prophesy means the same as the above inside the congregation?

Expercialy where there are qualified baptised christian men?
(just asking).

Or, are you insinuating that paul contradicted himself.

Image123: frosb claims others have character and say things that disgust others from Christ. I'm hoping his perfection will save all the sinners on this thread oh.

why is it that those that seems to dislike frosbel loves this thread?

Ubenedictus: 10:08 jan 20, i wrote a post, hell, is from d anglo saxon root meaning to hide, hole, hollow and a dark hidden place
hades is frm d root fid, meaning a dark hidden place.
The meaning is d same! Hell translates hades as literally as posible.

trying to justify a lie, that Hedes = hell. No it is not the same thing.