₦airaland Forum

frosbel: You totally miss the whole point of the death of Christ, he came to save us from SIN and it's consequence which is DEATH not eternal torment.

If our punishment was eternal torment then Jesus did not take this punishment for us. Our punishment is death and this is why Jesus came to defeat death , sin and the power behind these vices.

Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil - Hebrews 2:14

frosbel: You totally miss the whole point of the death of Christ, he came to save us from SIN and it's consequence which is DEATH not eternal torment.

italo: So since you admit that Christians have been living Christian lives even before the NT was written, it means that one can live a good Christian life without the Bible. Yes or No?

At what point did the Bible then become, for you, the final authority on matters of faith? What year?

You said this example and decision is a guideline for Christians today? Are you sure you are following their example?

In Acts 15:1-31, you will see how the Apostles settled the dispute.

They called the first Church council and deliberated on the issue. Then Peter the head of the apostles declared his pronouncement and James confirmed it.

No argument, no reference to scripture, no individual interpretation of anything.

The Church hasn't changed till today. That is still how the Church settles doctrinal disputes and confusion. The last council was the Vatican II council. The Church is the Catholic Church.

ijawkid: You and your twin bro are doing exactly that...I just showed ihedinobi a replica of the scripture he quoted to support his stance to help him see the real meanings of bible truths..but you guys turned a blind eye to it...



One thing you should know is that the more the verses the better...because the bible should be our final authority like you earlier said......if you claim or hold on to your position that billions of persons would be burning eternally in HELL fire,then you'll have to agree that nations like EDOM,babylon,sodom and gomorrah are still burning till this moment....the bible has to agree....



That is why they shouldn't be taken literally....rather should be applied symbolically.....

Revelation,isaiahs prophecy all speak the same thing....the lake of fire,fire containing sulphur and brim stone all connotes everlasting and complete destruction....



Those questions are actually very pertinent to verify if really the HELL fire is a literal place or a symbol of total destruction or death........if you try to runaway from those questions then you aint sincere.....

frosbel: We are all busy mate, there is a word called multitasking , no ?




Anony , remember what I said about context , truth and consistency ?

We MUST always compare scripture with scripture from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

You cannot and dare I say even allowed to form a doctrine from a parable in one chapter of the bible.

Quotation of the bible in context is key to verifying and understanding foundational truths.




No one is denying HELL , certainly not me.

The crux of the matter is the nature of this place called HELL.

Is it a NOW thing or a LATER thing ?

Will the Judge of the earth not do right as Abraham lamented to GOD when he was about to destroy Sodom.

God is JUST and therefore he cannot sentence a prisoner before judgement, otherwise the judgement becomes irrelevant.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad - 2 Corinthians 5:10

To suggest that a criminal is punished before judgement is actually lying against GOD, even earthly judges will feel this is not appropriate. You only find this sort of thing in Nigeria where suspects languish behind bars in abject misery for years even before Judgement. And then we all fight against this injustice with the support of human rights groups etc. If we mortals can have this level of morality how much more GOD.

My friend, God always does what is right, the guilty will not be acquitted and must face the punishment , but not before judgement.

Which is why we have the resurrection unto judgement and the great white throne judgement etc.

Remember that famous scripture that goes, "it is appointed to MAN to die once and after that judgement". This cannot mean an immediate judgement, this is talking about the same judgement as mentioned previously.

Therefore once we die , we sleep , totally void of consciousness or memory until the trumpet sounds and then and only then will we face Jesus on his judgement seat.

To try and twist this TRUTH is to exhibit a disrespect for God's WORD and logic.




Indeed it is , because John was in a vision , so the bible says , and he received prophecy or revelation from Jesus who in turn received this from GOD.

Revelation is an unfolding of TRUTH .

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" - Revelation 1:1



Actually , this is quite a dishonest statement, it is rather you and your twin brother who seem to have a knack for this increasing trend.




Is this all you have left, a get out of jail free card which actually is simply a Parable ?

Common you can do better.

And this same devil you talk about is the same one that will be destroyed in Ezeiekel 28 , no ? I bet you won't even go there, any scripture that lights up the truth to debunk your myth will always be avoided by you , this is something I have noticed.



We are not fools who accept anything , just because Prophet Anony says it is true.

This is precisely why 85% of the church is in error.

We are called to careful study and meditate on the WORD of GOD , not some concocted blind FAITH.

God created logic and he gave us a brain to apply reason to logic , to suggest otherwise is to turn MAN into a robot who has not capacity to think, learn and make the right decisions.


May I end this comment by saying that when you arrogantly prevent others from learning, though they may be Muslims or Atheists , you are actually a stumbling block to their salvation.

cyrexx:

this got me laughing in Aramaic and Koine Greek.

The posts of that certain someone will remain as a part of modicum of balance and sense on this thread whether you choose to ignore it or not and whether or not you like what he is saying

SUPPRESSION AND DENIAL of that someone's words is not the same as NEGATION AND REFUTATION that someonels words, especially when that someone explicitly states that he is just posting to air his views (and you cant tell him where to or where not to air his views; this is nairaland, not christianland) and he is not expecting responses that will distract or derail the thread.

Freksy: Now tell us, your position regarding death resulting from sin better fits which of the following two statements?

1. "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil , thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die". - Gen. 2:17 KJV

God later shaded more light on Gen. 2:17 regarding death as follows:

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread , till thou return unto the ground ; for out of it wast thou taken : for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return". - Gen. 3:19 KJV


2. "And the serpent said unto the woman , Ye shall not surely die" - Gen. 3:4 KJV

obadiah777: most of the stories in matthew mark luke and john are parables. its a hidden way of making a point. the point being made with that parable is that during the ressurection ( of CHRIST OR 'THE RETURN OF CHRIST ON EARTH' ) people will not be given to marriage ( DOES NOT MEAN PEOPLE WILL NOT GET MARRIED TO THEIR SPOUSES. ITS TALKING ABOUT THEY WILL NOT BE MARRIED TO OTHER DOCTRINES AND PHILOSOPHIES AND IDOLS ). They will be as angels of God in heaven meaning they will be messengers of God. they will only obey God now. no more idols. total allegiance to God

frosbel: @Obedia77

you lost me

obadiah777: THATS A PARABLE. and what the parable is trying to say is that when christ is on earth, no one will be married to their idols anymore. this is another reincarnation verse which further proves the point that spirits are forever. spirits dont get destroyed. souls are immortal

obadiah777: man is an immortal soul. the body wears out and dies but the spirit lives forever. lets examine this verse

matthew 16 vs 28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." when was this statement made ? around 2000 years ago ? so are there 2000 year old men walking around today that we dont know about ? NO. what does that tell you ? that verse tells you that the spirit is what makes the man and not the body. some of those spirits in those men standing there with Christ will not die spiritually because they were part of the 144,000 sealed whose spirits reside in the lord forever and will keep on being alive and residing with the lord till Christ comes. what does that tell you again ? you are your spirit not your body. your spirit has a personality that it expresses through your body. your spirit is not an electricity used to jump start a flesh as Truthislight and Frosbel have said. thats just a ludicrous and preposterous assertion

obadiah777: you are not your body. your body is simply dust from the ground. you are your spirit. we are spiritual beings wearing a dust suit. the spirit is who you are.

Antivirus92: poor you! The catholic doctrine is based on the bible. Let me tell you, you people are like pharisees of the old. You follow the bible strictly and you fail to understand that the bible is for man and not man for bible. You ignoramus should know that the scripture is flexible and not as rigid as you make it to look. If the scripture is rigid then mary magdalene should have been stoned to death according to the scripture. The catholic doctrine is based 90% on the bible. Do you know how many years it takes the vatican council(bible philosophers) to make out a single doctrine?

obadiah777: your spirit is a part of you. the question was 'is there a part of you that will exist apart from your body after you die '. the body does not exist alone. so the spirit is a part of you that will exist after you die.

CrazyMan: I gave a passage luke 16:24...it proved that the dead was actually kept in a hilding place pending the final punishment.

Joagbaje: If The Tithe is a blind animal,The Giver redeemes It With Money . True or False ?
Can you explain Verse 31

italo: @ Ogoamaka and Truthislight,

Very true, there was a confrontation on a doctrinal matter.

But how did they solve it?

Ogoamaka has been saying that each man should act according to his own opinion. Is that what Peter and Paul did? Did Peter go away and continue to live according to his opinion, while Paul went away living according to his own opinion?

Truthislight has been saying that we should look at what the Bible says (even though he hasn't been able to defend what he means by "what the Bible says". Is that what Paul and Peter did? Did Peter and Paul search the Bible and come to an agreement on what it says?

How exactly did they solve this problem?

Perhaps we should learn from this Biblical example of solving doctrinal matters, shouldn't we?

italo: @ Ogoamaka and Truthislight,

Very true, there was a confrontation on a doctrinal matter.

But how did they solve it?

Ogoamaka has been saying that each man should act according to his own opinion. Is that what Peter and Paul did? Did Peter go away and continue to live according to his opinion, while Paul went away living according to his own opinion?

Truthislight has been saying that we should look at what the Bible says (even though he hasn't been able to defend what he means by "what the Bible says". Is that what Paul and Peter did? Did Peter and Paul search the Bible and come to an agreement on what it says?

How exactly did they solve this problem?

Perhaps we should learn from this Biblical example of solving doctrinal matters, shouldn't we?

ogoamaka99: It seems that truthislight is still confused about opinion. I still repeat it, your interpretation of the BIBLE is based on personal opinion and the reason why there are differences in interpretation of the BIBLE is as a result of differences in opinion. I am still saying that your opinion are determined by YOUR FAITH, YOUR LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING, ETC . Look at what happened in Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; so that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, If you, being a Jew, live after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compel you the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Here Paul had confrontation with Peter over a doctrinal issue. This was so because PETER AND PAUL had differences over that issue.

italo: To Enigma and some other people, "Jesus is God" is the proposition that goes freely from Genesis to Revelation without contradicting other Bible portions.

To you and some others, it is the 'Jesus is not God' proposition that does so.



To Enigma and some others, "Jesus is not God" is the proposition that contradicts other Bible portions.

To you, it is the 'Jesus is God' proposition.

italo: To Enigma and some other people, "Jesus is God" is the proposition that goes freely from Genesis to Revelation without contradicting other Bible portions.

To you and some others, it is the 'Jesus is not God' proposition that does so.



To Enigma and some others, "Jesus is not God" is the proposition that contradicts other Bible portions.

To you, it is the 'Jesus is God' proposition.

Joagbaje: Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Enigma: @plappville

You are doing two very bad things.

1. You are making a false accusation (I don't want to say you are lying) when you accuse me of twisting ----- because all I have done is to set out Bible passages. You are the one that has been doing the "interpreting" and twisting as a matter of fact.

2. You can pretend not to see the passages where Isaiah said he saw God or which say that Jacob wrestled with God. Well, they will still be there in the Bible.

Enigma: Did you not see this verse in the Hosea passage?



Meanwhile you are the one who have been twisting and "interpreting" so far! All I have done is set out the passages.