₦airaland Forum

Reyginus: Guys, I am going to represent atheism for some hours/days. I'd like you to throw in any question which you feel our resident atheists have failed to deal with. Or concepts of the theism which you believe destroys atheism completely.
Theists, atheists, pantheists, deists, panentheists, fideists, etc., are invited.
.....

This section must be lively again.

Hehehehe.

smh.

the bible says by "no mean"(an means) can a man redeemed his fellow man, but RCC says men can Redeemed his fellow man. Smh for error.

truthislight: 13. "They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by 'any means' redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever: ) That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption." (Psalm 49:6-9).
.....................

Keep ^ deceiving yourselves. RCC has erroded your mind.

The damage that RCC has done to this young men and women, old also is great.

italo: Anti-Catholic JW now ignoring Paul's writings and throwing insults at me instead.

Tomorrow, he'll say "where did the Bible say that?"

For now he despises the words of the Bible.

The lunacy of anti-Catholics!

13. "They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; None of them can by 'any means' redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever: ) That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption." (Psalm 49:6-9).
.....................

Keep ^ deceiving yourselves. RCC has erroded your minds.

macof: I understand all this but the JW base their self on names gotten through erroneous Translations not the actual names as known in the original Bible

Yeah! Just like the name Elijah is an error.

italo: Is it the Catholic Church that made Paul a "co-worker" with God? No. It was God

Is it the Catholic Church that alluded to the fact that God's work on earth was redemption and mediation on this thread? No. It was you.

Jesus is the sole high priest but all Christians share in his priesthood.



Which yeye study? Why not show me the Bible verses that say that our only part of the labour is preaching?

1Pet 4:13 says "But rejoice insofar as you are sharing Christ’s sufferings, so that you may also be glad and shout for joy when his glory is revealed."

And "suffering" there wasn't talking about preaching.

Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Did you see that?

2 Cor 1:5, 6 For just as the sufferings of Christ are abundant for us, so also our consolation is abundant through Christ. 6 If we are being afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation; if we are being consoled, it is for your consolation, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we are also suffering.

Did you see that?! Paul suffered for your salvation...and it wasn't mere "preaching."

RCC says she's a co-redemtrix contrary to the Holy Spirit



I seriously dont know what your problem is. I am beginning to think it is plain hatred and envy.

Jesus is the only Son of God, yet we are all sons of God.

Jesus is the only High Priest, yet we all share his priesthood.

Jesus is the only one who "worked"(redeemed/saved us), yet Paul says he is a "co-worker" and he suffered for our salvation.
.

Ok, since we are God's fellow workers, and Italo is one of such, i can as such say a very short prayer through the name of you Italo.

"In Italo's name" >>>>> Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooo

can you tell me the god that will receive such ^ a prayer ?

Hehehehehehe, suffer head.

v

Enigma: ^^ Paul and Mary died for mankind, perhaps?

Yeah, thats ^ true.

According to RCC, "we are all fellow workers, we are all redeemers of mankind".

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]i dont believe in Satan. it does not exist.[/quote]Yea right!

You can say that again.

Yeah, "god does not exist".

There should come a time we seat down and ask ourselves some honest questions.

Did a pope ever made those prayers ?

Is the pope and the catholic church "christians" ?

Is the bible a guide or, rather, is the bible of any use to the RCC ?

italo: ^^^

What do I not see as normal?

That you have taken only a few statements and prayers out of the millions said by the late Pope and the Church, and given it the meaning that you want it to have...totally ignoring what is meant by those who say them, and the multitude of other statements and prayers by the same people that prove you and your teachers to be wrong.

But I know that this behaviour cannot be wrong to you.

How can you tell whom another man worships? I am just asking.

That a pope, the head of the catholic church ever made this sort of prayer alone is damnable according to what the bible says.

Whether one o, or many o there are of this sort of prayer is not the issure, but that an infallible pope prays in this fashion is a seriouse matter.

No wander they wish to cover the bible with their infinite "traditions". Smh.

BERNIMOORE: @italo



why do catholics reverence Mary as their “Supreme Pontiff.” because [size=14pt]It is a documented fact that the late Pope John Paul II relied more on Mary for salvation than on Jesus.[/size]

Pope John Paul made more than 40 pilgrimages to her shrines at Lourdes and Fatima. He wrote in his Apostolic Letter of Oct. 16, 2002, the following words:

[size=14pt]“I entrust this Apostolic Letter to the loving hands of the Virgin Mary, prostrating myself in spirit before her image in the splendid Shrine built for her by Blessed Bartolo Longo, the apostle of the Rosary.”
[/size]


Embroidered inside all of Pope John Paul’s robes was the phrase[/i], “Totus tuus sum Maria,” which means, “Mary, I am all yours.”

The Catholic Rosary concludes:
“HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!”

It is of interest when we ponder Roman Catholicism’s popular “15 Promises of Mary.” Among them we find:

“The soul which recommends itself to me [Mary] by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish...I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall…at the moment of death…participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise.”

It is obvious, then, that not only did the late pope worship Mary and place his eternal security in her, but it is equally obvious that “the faithful” follow in his footsteps. When Catholics turn from faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation to trusting Mary and the Rosary, as did Pope John Paul II, they place their eternal salvation in jeopardy why? because for Jesus Himself declared;

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)


If Jesus spoke the truth, and He did, there is zero security and salvation in Mary and the Rosary. In the pope’s “Prayer For The Marian Year,” he prayed:

[size=14pt]“Sustain us, O Virgin Mary, on our journey of faith and obtain for us the grace of eternal salvation.”[/size]

do you see this above as normal? im just asking

Enigma: According to the apostle John we have the Holy Spirit and do not really need anyone -- whether "pope" or whatever!

1 John 2: 27

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.



Oh by the way, we of course also have the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself!

John 14:26

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

So, we really do not need any "popes" or whatever ---- thank you very much!

Hehehehe.

How polite can one get.

"thank you" indeed for the offer.

funny thread.

Yeah, tithes collectors will really wish that tjose that pay tithes remains in darkness.

Gombs: Prov 23v9 ESV

Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the good sense of your words.


We do wanna speak, but the love of God constrains us. I don't hope you'd understand.


Leave the tithe issue alone.


James 3:17 ESV

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then
peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and
good fruits, impartial and sincere.


Your post sire does not inspire confidence in the honesty of this thread.

From James above, your wisdom is certainly not from above...hence not peaceable, nor gentle, nor open to reason, nor full of mercy and good fruits nor impartial nor sincere.

Zikkyy: The average tither would avoid any discussion on tithe, and i can tell you that debate is not something they want to do. For them the less they(people) know about tithe the better for them.

https://www.nairaland.com/1540233/inviting-tithers-theological-discuss-miwerds/2#19979752

https://www.nairaland.com/1540233/inviting-tithers-theological-discuss-miwerds/2#1998007

Emusan: Spirit has been described in the Bible to speak I wonder how inpersonal force can speak.

Where the Holy spirit is said to speak in the bible, it is through a medium > person.

That does not neget the fact that it is not a person, is it a person that goes into a radio or TV to talk or electric current/signal ?

Note, the action of the holyspirit is the action of Yahweh's power, the most powerful force in the univers, it does whatsoever Yahweh wishes to do.

Emusan: I wonder how inpersonal force can speak.

I wonder how Electric signals speaks also in radios and TV

This is what It takes for a tither to defend his Doctrine from the bible:

Gombs: And if I'd take on this debate I'd want some rules enforced

1. Short and precise questions and the answers in like manner.
2. No recycling of questions
[s] 3. No interference from other posters except from the post of each of the debaters and the question must be intelligent. [/s]
4. No form of insults
5. No personal attack
6. Quoting a debater from archives of his past posts are very allowed
7. The audience members shall not ask follow-up
questions asked by the audience or the answers of the
candidates during the debate."
8. HBG would moderate
9. I wanna debate with Goshen
10. I'd not hesitate to pull out when audience use insults or get personal, or when the opposing debater gets insulting.
11. Scriptural blunders will be a nice way to invalidate a debater
12. Each debater is allowed to choose an active ally only used when invoked. I choose Bidam
13. A debater can ask a max of only 3 questions at a time, of which he'd wait for the other to answer and conversely ask his.
Other rules would follow in due course

...and I can't debate on wednesday... Lunch hour service and mid week service.

Cheers

Ignore No 3... I amended it in No 7

Very obedient of them.

The thief is always afraid that he will be beaten.

https://www.nairaland.com/1540233/inviting-mark-miwerds-olaadegbu-theological/1#19967285

Emusan: Don't mind them all, they will reject anything relate to SPIRIT because they have made the fisrt mistake by calling Holyspirit an Active force of God. keep watching how they keep twisting the scriptures.

John who wrote the book of revelation was caught in SPIRIT while his body was in isle.

You can see how he twisted the story of Moses & Elijah talking to Jesus.

I'm reading from Jan 1 2014 watchtower back page now. There is sub topic title "What sort of person is God?" The first statement there is "God is an invisible SPIRIT PERSON"

why the word spirit before person?

I abhor when someone with half baked knowledge is postulating as though he knows absolutely.

The word spirit is more of a generic name for things that are invisible, hence, the following are called spirit in the bible:

1. Spirit person(Yahwheh, Jesus, Angels)

2. While human have hands to exact their intent and power/do work, spirit beings power to get things done is also call their spirit.

3. The most powerful entitty in the univers is Yahweh(almighty. 'might' ), hence, his power is also refered to as spirit, alias > "holy spirit".

4. Satan also have his own power, hence:

"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, >
the 'spirit' that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" (Ephesians 2:2).
......................

From that ^, we find out that satan also has his power, and it is also called "spirit".

With that spirit of satan(power of satan), he controls the "sons of disobedience".

Again, the power of this entities can enpower its subjects(humans) to do more than they can ordinarily do.

This does not mean that a person will come and hold their hands to do more, no, but, like a battery that already has current in it but the current being low and cannot start a car, all you need do is recharge such a battery (add more power) and it can then be able to start the car.

So also, human where created with God's spirit from inception, but due to imperfection, we cannot function maximally.

But, when an individual is empowered with the spirit of God(God's power), he is recharged and can hence do more than he was able to do befor, like a recharged battery being able to start a car.

When that ^ spirit enables someone to do more, is it a person that holds that persons hands ?

When Jesus started performing miracle with the spirit of God, was it a 'person' that was holding his hands to do stuff ? ? ? ? ?

Is that ^ not clear enough ? Must we all continue living in satan's blindness and call it a mystery ?

Its your choice to decide.

Peace.

NativeBoy: What then do you make of the judgment? There must be something to judge.

"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgement. " (John 5:28-29).
.......................

That ^ is what the bible said.

Where was A dam befor God created him ? He was no where befor God produce him.

God does not need to keep anything("soul" ) somewhere befor he will be able to reproduce man back.

If the bible says that God can count all the quantrillions of quantrillion of stars in the univers and call them by name, i dont know why his memory cannot keep the few billions of humans in his memory that he will want to bring back.

arsenalwenger: Human spirit survives after death while the body goes back to soil..

The spirit, greek pneuma (as in pneumatics), breathe, is lifeless.

To illustrate, electric current is lifeless, but it does so many things.

tonguetalker: stop taking his words out of context, he was equating fire with the sharp coviction that comes with listening to his church teachings.

If you have a problem with hell, open a thread on it.

Ok.

But do they preach the doctrine of Hellfire ?

lacum: I read the lines of Pastor Chris Okotie himself. I
saw and heard people commenting on it; some
were angry with Pastor Chris, some felt like
beheading him like John De Baptist, and some
who are in d same ignorant-boat with him
supported him. My Priest bro and good friend Fr
John Ograh systematically outlined, refuted his
obnoxious and contradictory lifestyles and
postulations.
Nonetheless, I borrow and align myself with the
thought of Fr Iwatt Benedict: To gain d cheapest
popularity in d world, especially as a pastor, u
must talk against d CATHOLIC CHURCH. Sermons
are not complete without an ignorant and
baseless criticism to d Catholic Church, her
Faith and People. Pastor Chris Okotie is one of
such Pastors. Interestingly, no OFFICIAL
response is given.
Pastor Chris Okotie has consciously noticed dt
his nagatively-acquired fame seemed to be dyin
off. So he once again came on to d stage of
ignominy to reclaim fame. History is replete
with him persecuting TB Joshua, Chris
Oyakhilome to d presidency. Even, he once told
Nigerians as a political-pastor dt God sent him
to be d president- but d same God rejected him
at d polls. Hmmmm, so much of a confused
Man.
If to talk CATHOLICISM makes u popular,
however wrongly, den am proud to b a FULL
and TRUE EPITOME Minister of d world's best
faith-based-institution. Its a fact dt anybody can
wake up and declares himself/herself Pastor, but
not anybody can just declare to b Catholic,
talkless a Catholic Priest. No b moi-moi.... May
God, thro d intercession of our Mother Mary
help Pastor Chris Okotie and his followers to
truely repent. Ise

Taken from fr. kingsly idehen facebook page

How was that^ a respons and refutation ?

You can do better than that or better still, you have to do better than that joor.

tonguetalker: What is wrong with you? He never said anything about hellfire, why are you putting words in his mouth?

Ok, the church does not teach "Hellfire" right ?

I see, now i know how i am putting words for him mouth.

But him say the "church teaching dey hot like fire". Abi ?

Enigma: As it happens, Galileo even had better theological insight than the Roman Catholic Church. Not just better scientific insight but also better theological insight.

He told them that, on interpretation, the Bible was not incompatible with heliocentrism. But of course the messrs "infallible" wouldn't listen and did with him what pleased them.

Now, apparently one of their recent "popes" was using style to apologise. Where is "infallibility" again?

Oh, maybe the "magisterium" was not exercising "infallibility" then!

Does the christian doctrines say you should kill/imprison anybody with a contrary or contradictry views ? No.

The excused holds no water for extremism and crusades.

Oh, they had to do that to keep their hold on phylosophy, politics, and control.

Definitely, the bible is not to be blamed for such.

Its like saying, because the bible mentioned "the four corners of the earth", you then conclude that the earth is a square. No naw!

jendoslim: faith of our fathers, living faith. we will be true to thee til end. dats my church, a church with a burnin message nd experiential salvatn. COME ALONG ND OUR GOD WIL DO U GOOD

Yeah, thats ^ true. Their "Hellfire" message must be burning extra extra strong.

Smh for threat.

NativeBoy: So where does it go?

No where, it just vanishes!

When your caddle 'light' goes off, does it go anywhere ?

NativeBoy: So the soul doesn't return to God when one dies?

Does the 'light' (illumination) from an electric bulb returns to the Generator when the current goes out

NativeBoy: Please just speak to what Jesus is saying about a soul being cast into hell.

Permanent destruction of ones life by God.

We have already exterblished how the bible uses the word 'fire', as illustrated by 'death' and 'Grave' being thrown there(lake of fire) and it ceases to be for ever, in Rev 20:14 and 21:4.

As to the below, you seem to be having problems with the word 'sprit', spirit is translated from Greek pneuma(as in pneumatics).

I dont know how you input live to that ^.

You have to read Gen 2:7 again and see if that spirit God blew into Adam was living somewhere befor it was put into Adam.

NativeBoy: And what do you make of this scripture?
Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7 NKJV)

that same spirit keeps animal and insect, maggot, worms, ant etc, alive, do they all go back to God ?

NativeBoy: And this one?
But I will warn you whom you should fear: fear Him Who, after killing, has power to hurl into hell (Gehenna); yes, I say to you, fear Him! (Luke 12:5 AMP)

we have told you that fire is a symbol of a destruction by God in the bible and hence permanent.

When God is the one doing the destroying, it is always pictured as fire in the bible.

The bible also calls God a consuming fire. So, when God does the destruction, fire is use to show it, and if God kills someone, no other person can ever wrestle God and change the outcome and bring that person back to life.

But like that scripture puts it, if other persons does the killing, it is only the "body" that they can impact, hence, no need to fear such a person since God will and can still restore the person back to life in the resurrection.

But when God does the killing, he will destroy the persons "body" and the possibility of the persons life being restored is also gone, finito!!!

Soul, equals to the living person, such 'life'. Only God can say that a person should not have life again. = "destruction of the soul"

all God needs to do to ensure that the person never have life again is to never restore the "breath of life" back to the body of that person for all eternity, and hence there will never be that soul again.

NativeBoy: Is this parabolic? Or is Christ saying that there is a place where souls go.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a 'living soul'." (Genesis 2:7).
....................

Where was that ^ soul befor the breath of life was put into the body

NativeBoy: So what you are all saying is there is no resurrection of the dead?

How did you arrived at such ^ conclussion ?

Who made such comment ?

Is it not you we should be asking such quetsions ? Afteral, you wish to tell us that the soul is immortal, if the soul is immortal, where does it go to at ones death ?

Heaven ? Why then bring him back ?

Hell ? If its your place of torment, why then bring him back and why send him to such befor Judgement ? (though there is no such place)

I feel you are attempting to accuss us wrongly since no one has said such on this thread, else show evidence of such.

Smh.

arsenalwenger: James 2:26. Without the spirit, the body is dead. HUMAN BODY + SPIRIT= LIVING BEING.
SPIRIT = LIVING BEING - HUMAN BODY.

Ecl 11:5. Even the human spirit and the body are distinct entities right from the womb.

Luke 23:46. The human spirit goes back to God after death.

Gen 4: 8-10 and Heb 12:24. Even at death, the blood can still call upon God for vegeance or petition him.

1 king 17:17-24. God can return a spirit to a body and make the body living again.

Act 7:59. We can commit our spirit to God at death, if we have the opportunity. Our spirit live even while our bodies are damaged.

Matthew 17: 1-13. Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and were seen by some of the disciples. These men died long ago before the incaranation of Jesus on earth, but their spirits appear to Jesus.

John 8:56,57. Abraham, though had died long time ago, was happy to see Jesus' day. Where do they meet? The answer is in the scriptures.

Exodus 3:6 and Matthew 22: 32. God is God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is not the God of the death, but the God of the living. To God and Jesus, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and many other faithfull men and women of God) are still alive (though physically dead in the eyes of men). I dont think Jesus has also been brianwashed to believe that Abraham and co are still living, though spiritually (cos God is the God of the living and this men had died long ago before God made that prononcement concerning them.

The bible say that a carnal man cannot receive (or believe) the thing of the spirit, because they are foolishness (or irrational) to him (1 corinthians 2:14).

That ^ is a very poor bible student effort, you are speaking into the bible rather than let the bible speak for itself.

Enigma: @truthislight


Of recent times it is reported that Pope John XXII publicly taught, declared, and commanded to be believed by all, that purified souls do not have the clear vision of God before the Final Judgment."

that was what i was saying, that they have away of showing the other hand whenever the pope blunders.

Worst case, they let the pope die and they tag him a "heretic". "infallibility" indeed!

Na their way.

Syncan: I said it before "You speak too much, but make little sense". Please one more try at helping you, in your own term, what do you understand infallibility of the pope to be?

Is that word in the sriptures ? Show me, let me read it up.

Thank you.

Peace.

Enigma: He "doesn't read my posts" oooo! He only reports them to the Mods --- or to Police! Though how he knows what to report without reading it is another level even higher than "infallibility"! Anyway, I suggested reporting to GEJ or United Nations! Maybe reporting to one of those will be more effective?

bros, you know say if we follow wear this cloak of conditional infallibity we fit become pope too o.

When we make mistake, we say we did not make use of our infallibility

if them catch us for left we show right hand and when them catch us for right hand we show left hand, by so doing no one can even ever catch us.

Even when the thing dong dey exposed, when we die, them go just call us "heretic", matter closed! Hehehehe.

We go be smothe operators
James Bond ni
007 ko

men! Mankind get sense o!

what do you think bros ?

We can also be infallible men!