₦airaland Forum

RandomGuy48:
According to this, yes:
https://dailypost.ng/2019/06/18/isaac-agubi-police-hunters-rescue-kidnapped-edo-catholic-priest/

Although it refers to him as Agubi, not Agabi.

then the error is from them.

His name is Agabi not agubi

etcsines:
@titiloyeblog.com

The Edo State Police Command said it has begun a search for Fr Isaac Agubi, who was abducted by gunmen.

Its spokesman, DSP Chidi Nwabuzor, said police operatives have visited the scene.

Nwabuzor said police operatives and local vigilance are combing the bush in search of the kidnapped Catholic Priest.

He said the vehicle of the kidnapped Priest has been recovered.

source: https://www.titiloyeblog.com/2019/06/were-searching-for-kidnapped-catholic.html

Cc: Lalasticlala, Mynd44

Fr Agabi is the name, I think he has been released.

egopersonified:
Does this include same sex marriage

marriage is between a man and a woman... What is same sew "marriage"?

Interesting discussion

uboma:
Some Catholic Priests in Ghana are married men, the Church knows about their marital status.


But it is a pity to the children who got molested by these Priests. All the Vatican does is to suppress the scandal with no sanction/punishment against the serial rapist who also doubles as Priests.

speak only about what you know.

Pope Benedict alone expelled 800 priests from the priesthood, now you have serious psychological tests to enter a seminary along with other guidelines to make sure the environment is safe... These guidelines are even stiffer in Europe and America and bishops mandatory reports such crimes even in cases that later turn out to be untrue.
The idea that the Vatican did or is doing nothing is untrue...

MiddleDimension:
i am glad that even though you disagree with me, atleast you got my point unlike the other people especially the lady. they even went as far as misquoting jesus saying anyone who has more than one wife has comitted adultery; where exactly did jesus say that!

anyway, i understand you disagree with me and i do not have a problem with that. all i want you all to do is to get the point and relate it with the bible. these kind of issues get rejected the first time they are presented. even among you christians, when you show it to perhaps the people on here that the bible said in james that you should confess your sins to one another, they will still argue with you and say it is only when you offend someone that you should take that step. also when you talk about the gospel of john where it outrightly backs up your teaching of confession, since it is not something these people have ever been told in their churches, they will argue it with you! untill after some time, then they will gradually agree, as it is with Oyakhilome today.

lol,
Guess you brought up cases you know I'll be sympathetic to...

But those guys citing Jesus aren't too far off...

Jesus said if you divorce your wife and remarry you have committed adultery what do you think he will say if you keep your wife and marry another.
Is it not the same adultery? That rule doesn't make sense if we allow polygamy, if polygamy is right then remarriage is too.
Jesus asserts that if the first marriage stands then the second is adultery... This should be true both for divorce and polygamy.

as for the church being the bride of christ, that is not disputed at all, and i have not said otherwise. but let me ask you, @ubenedictus, are you a bride of christ? when you say jesus is your personal lord and saviour, do you also mean he is your groom even though he is also the groom of other believers like you? if yes, do you think you all are 'sharing' the same groom, thus is not whole and entirely yours (personal), just as he is whole and entirely your brother's (personal lord and saviour)? so why then is this thinh difficult to get by the other people here with rediculous rebuttals!

The answer is no!

I am not the bride of Christ or a bride of Christ, I am not a body of Christ either nor am I the body of Christ.
The whole idea behind eclessiology is that we together are the one body and bride.

I alone am just a part of the body, alone am just a part of the bride, essentially Christianity is communal even though modern churches emphasize on its personal aspects.
But the idea of a body and that of a bride are singular thus making us all members of that one body and one bride.
The body is the church so too is the bride not just one christian....but the assembly of all who are in Christ

as for the how the early church interpreted things... well, all i can say is, among the early christians, from the apostles to the other first century christians, polygamy was a norm, and they never saw it in anyway negative. that is why jesus and the other apostles NEVER said anything against it.

Not really true.

Roman law was monogamous except for certain Jewish... It was to the same Jews who Jesus addressed their laws reminding them that from the beginning God created one man and one woman.... and United them as one.

In fact Paul a Jew would frown upon a believer who converted with his polygamous family and tell him not to assume leadership in the Church. The leaders are to be examples to the people.
The type and pattern for marriage will be the one Christ with his one bride, the beginning Adam with his Eve etc.
In fact by the end of the first century the question was no longer about monogamy but about the desirability of celibacy in church leadership as Corinthians show.

In fact the early Christians used to condemn the Jewish schools that still allowed polygamy.

1. Justin Martyr (c.160) rebukes the Jews for allowing polygamy:


"Your imprudent and blind masters [i.e., Jewish teachers] even until this time permit each man to have four or five wives. And if anyone sees a beautiful woman and desires to have her, they quote the doings of Jacob." [ANF, vol. 1, p. 266]



2. Irenaeus (c.180) condemns the Gnostics for, among other things, polygamy:


"Others, again, following upon Basilides and Carpocrates, have introduced promiscuous intercourse and a plurality of wives..." [ANF, vol. 1, p.353]



3. Tertullian (c.207) was also explicit:


"Chapter II.-Marriage Lawful, But Not Polygamy. We do not indeed forbid the union of man and woman, blest by God as the seminary of the human race, and devised for the replenishment of the earth and the furnishing of the world, and therefore permitted, yet Singly. For Adam was the one husband of Eve, and Eve his one wife, one woman, one rib. (ANF: Tertullian, To His Wife)




4. Methodius (cf.290) was clear on the issue, arguing that it had stopped at the time of the Prophets:


"The contracting of marriage with several wives had been done away with from the times of the prophets. For we read, 'Do not go after your lusts, but refrain yourself from your appetites'...And in another place, 'Let your fountain be blessed and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.' This plainly forbids a plurality of wives." [ANF, vol. 6, p.312]



So you see, from Jesus going back to the beginning to trace one man one Eve, to Paul disallowing polygamist from leadership and stating a one Bridegroom one bride idea all in the first century.
To Justin an early Christian martyr in the 2nd century, to iranaeus the Bishop down to the third and fourth century..... Some of these even before the Bible was even canonised, representing the transmission of the Christian faith from the early times....

I am a Catholic and for me these things are simple.
I look at what the Bible says and implies, I look at how the early Christians talked about it and how the church all over practiced it... Scripture, interpreted in line with Apostolic tradition and taught by the church. If I see those 3 thing together on a particular issue and I refuse to believe then I am a heretic.

the bible warned against getting drunk, adultery, etc. all the things the bible warned against, especially those ones widely known to the people, were all mentioned by name! idolatry was widely known among the people, and so when the apostles were condenming it, they mentioned it by name. how then can a thing like polygamy, widely known among the apostles, was not mentioned by name in any condenmination?

Christ himself already told us how to go about the issue of marriage... It was not so in the beginning... After reading that discourse I know what marriage is and what it isn't

if you still want more evidence from the bible that god is not against polygamy, well he sent nathan to david to tell him about his sins, and this is the quote from the bible:

7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. please pay attention to the words in colour.

david was punished not because he had other wives. as you can see from the verse that i quoted there, it was god himself that gave him those wives. he was punished because he took another person's wife, more like...''thou shall not covert thy neighbour's wife''. and not only that, he killed the husband! of course that would outrage anyone.

God also used to deliver whole nations to the Israelites so that a whole people adults and kids are killed akin to genocide... Do you think because God approved it then and delivered it... We too should go such lengths in war and then assume we are free from sin?

go to the north and you will see polygamous homes living in peace, including christian polygamous homes. don't fall for the propaganda against the north!

also, another example if a good polygamous home is given in the bible below:

genesis 4
19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.

21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

those who like pointing out unhapiness in polygamy should please do so here!
and the whole idea of where ever polygamy is mentioned, unhapiness follows, can't you see that that is dangerously the same arguement jehovah's withnesses bring up against birthdays?

infact, that the children of lamach's marriage went on to be the father's of those who played harp etc, shows that they had a beautiful home where they could become renowned in their endeavours.

I have heard of happy polygamist, and happy homosexual couples even happy remarried couples and happy cohabiting couples but I still don't accept them either.

I don't measure morality according to each person's understanding of happy but according to the revelation of God's will.



You forced me to hurry the reply so bear it's skeletal shape

MiddleDimension:
ubenedictus does not want to reply my mentions.

don't feel that way.

the response message box is open on my browser but I can't find the time or state of mind to put the thought in typed words.

I will respond, please.

TANTUMERGO007:
Nothing go happen, no be Lagos be Edo state. We love obaseki and he go rule again. I hate you when you allow sentiments to get the better part of your brain, this is someone that is trying to fix a state that idiat oshiomhole used debt to destroy, let him leave obaseki to face governance well.

let him continue his fixing...
But he should be wise enough to inaugurate the house... It is illegal not to do so

TANTUMERGO007:
Which useless grave, no they use tinubu case study on us. If Adams do anyhow he go see anyhow. Esan go align with Benin while our side go split votes. If Adams get sense he better make he loyal to the government

is it right what he just did?

He refused to inaugurate the house of assembly, crippling the legislature and precipitating a constitutional crisis.

Address issues, this isn't oshiomole Vs obaseki. If obaseki refuses to inaugurate the house, it's obaseki Vs edo state

standozzy:
Nice break down
But they never joined the SSPX
It is our prayer that Nigeria returns to tradition and that is part of it. It least a lot of persons are now asking questions about the Traditional Latin Mass. When they learn about it, some of them will like to find out about it and eventually embrace the truth of the Holy Catholic Church.

Thanks to the Archdioces for that free adverts

do they have approval for a new community?

Tallie0414:
The mass they celebrated is the Tridentine mass ,also called traditional latin mass and it was the mass that was celebrated around the globe before the introduction of the mass of Paul VI in 1969. I personally don't see anything wrong with them celebrating it as long as it's not banned by the church. Before you all judge get your facts right,I have attended said Tridentine mass celebrated by them twice and it's according to church doctrine. The Tridentine Mass,[1] also known as Traditional Latin Mass (often abbreviated in the colloquial TLM),[2] or Usus Antiquior, is the Roman Rite Mass which appears in typical editions of the Roman Missal published from 1570 to 1962.[3] The most widely used Mass liturgy in the world until the introduction of the Mass of Paul VI in 1969, it is celebrated in ecclesiastical Latin.[4]

The edition promulgated by Pope John XXIII in 1962 (the last to bear the indication ex decreto Sacrosancti Concilii Tridentini restitutum) and Mass celebrated in accordance with it are described in the 2007 motu proprio Summorum Pontificum as an authorized form of the Church's liturgy, and this form of the Tridentine Mass is often spoken of as the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, the EF Mass. Very rev.fr Emeka Aroh failed to explain everything in details. There's more to the story.

since you've been there can you tell us if they have approval or have applied for it?

Tallie0414:
They run a community known as Maria Virgo Fidelis Tridentine Community

the question is, "does the community has approval? "

pillarmaria:
Yes, the second Vatican council that gave birth to the Novus Ordo Mass is not a dogmatic council and as such do not poses the Power to Change the way we go about the Holy Mass, The celebration of the Holy Eucharist is traditionally meant to be solemn and not like what we see now that is more Protestant than Catholic.
. Truly the Holy Mass has changed and the abuse is affecting our faith.

The second Vatican council erred by adopting protestanism into the Holy Mass just to accommodate Protestant, God never changes so his standards.

ecumenical council in union with the Pope are infallible, they don't err.
Whatever we call it whether pastoral or dogmatic, they have full power in defining and legislating

Nearly two months after a devastating fire, Mass will once again be celebrated within the Notre Dame Cathedral on Sunday.

In April the Notre Dame Cathedral was consumed by flames, burning the wooden roof and iconic spire to ash. Fortunately, the “main structure” was saved and preserved.

Since then, no Mass had been celebrated within the shuttered Notre Dame. Cathedral rector Bishop Patrick Chauvet, however, announced it’s first post-fire would be had on June 16th.

Chauvet said it will be a celebration of the anniversary of the cathedral’s dedication:

“The date that was chosen is symbolic. This will be the feast of the dedication of the cathedral, that is, the consecration of the altar. It is very important to be able to make the world aware that the role of the cathedral is to show the glory of God. Celebrating the Eucharist on that day, even in very small groups, will be the sign of this glory and grace.”

Mass will be celebrated by Archbishop of Paris Michael Aupetit, held in the “side chapel with a restricted number of people, for obvious security reasons.” Unharmed by the fire, the side chapel housed the Crown of Thorns.

20 will be in attendance, 6 or 7 priests, the archbishop, and the rest various canons – all wearing a hardhat for safety. A local French television channel will broadcast the Mass live so all can participate.

Chauvet also announced that until the restoration is complete, a small Marian shrine will be setup out side the cathedral, save for approval from French authorities. If approved, evening prayers would be celebrated nightly on the parvis.


https://www.ucatholic.com/news/notre-dame-to-celebrate-first-mass-since-fire/?fbclid=IwAR1DfJEb0OH7QOicNPpLDk3U7zpKlaPqMwcnXbsVSMKbPS7XpPdSpVPElFc

Funaki:
I like your thoughts. But I have some questions.

If God has foreknowledge, why do we need to pray? He already knows the outcome of all things, so prayer would be useless in such case since you can't change the outcome, either good or bad.

Why do God command Christians to preach to all nations? God already knows the people going to heaven and hell, so why preach to people that are "hell-bent " since God knows that they'll eventually go to hell.

If God knows the end of all things, then this world is just like a movie to him, he knows every of our actions before we take them. Why does he get angry at our misdeeds since he already knows what we're going to do? Example is the case of Noah. God was said to be unhappy with the people he created during the time of Noah, hetc regretted creating them. How can you be shocked by a scene in a movie that you've watched multiple times?

probably because he already factored in our prayers and preaching and it is in obedience to his word

Horiolah:
You still don't get it, do you??. Didn't he (God) knew beforehand, no matter the reasons, I wouldn't believe or their might be some things that would make him (Hawkins) have faith. A being thats all loving and powerful would change the course of things, don't you think?.

not really.
He doesn't work according to your thoughts.

He gives sufficient proof and allows you decide... If not it won't be faith, it will be knowledge

MosesAlex:
Masses hold at the Sacred Heart Seminary on Sundays (it shares wall with CIWA, close to Artillery, Aba-PH road)

I don't have links, but have been there myself.

if I ever find myself in that environment I'll branch in....

Udopasa:
Clarification pls

continue reading

MosesAlex:
The TLM (The Trident Mass ) has not been banned by the Catholic Church. That is a common misconception.

Read more what is Church official stance on it here.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum.html


At least I know the bishops of Port Harcourt and Orlu Dioseces allow celebration of the Tridentine Masses at Sacred Heart Seminary (PH) and at Umuaka, Orlu, Imo State

are you serious?

The Bishop of port Harcourt?.... I knew about orlu... Please can you present links to the port Harcourt celebration?

VERTEX1:
Traditional Mass is Tridentine Latin Mass. It was banned In The Catholic Church. In this mass the priest Backs the congregation and every prayers and responses are said in Latin. Browse google for more details.

it is not banned, it has never been banned and it isn't banned... Cardinals and bishops still celebrate it and there is a papal document that says is was never banned and that any priest who wish to can celebrate it.

pillarmaria:
It was never banned but the second Vatican council Abandoned it just to embrace a more circular kind of worship.

If you are sure of any Church's documents/council that banned it then present it here.

he made a mistake... It isn't even that abandoned again, it is making a resurgence

VERTEX1:
Traditional Mass is Tridentine Latin Mass. It was banned In The Catholic Church. In this mass the priest Backs the congregation and every prayers and responses are said in Latin. Browse google for more details.

it is not banned, it has never been banned and it isn't banned... Cardinals and bishops still celebrate it and there is a papal document that says is was never banned and that any priest who wish to can celebrate it.

Curiouscity:
That is not traditional mass. Replacement of the wine with our palm wine would be termed as INCULTURATION. Part of the inculturation is why many hymns during mass are rendered in local languages, with local drums.

But traditional mass is mass where the priest backs the congregation for entire duration of the mass, and most of the prayers and even bible readings are done in Latin language. This is also called Tridentine mass. It was abandoned after the 2nd Vatican council of 1962-1965. But members of SSPX who are less than a 1000 worldwide still practice it, against the rules and directives of the Church.

actually the people using traditional mass are really many and the number is growing in every continent... In fact in country like France the normal mass is dying while the traditional one is growing... Any priest is allowed to practice the tradentine mass under the mortu propio summorum pontificum

Nairasurplus:
What is traditional mass? Is it celebrating holy mass with thing available in ones locality. For instance replacing mass wine imported from Spain with our natural palm wine. Is it not God that created palm wine. I thought mass is a form of prayer? Does a prayer have a format before God accepts it?
Christians, open your eyes.

no sir.

Traditional mass doesn't mean celebrating mass with palm wine

chiommy123:
What is traditional Catholic mass?

it is the normal Catholic worship from about 1500-1960 it is called the extraordinary form of the Latin mass or the vetus ordo or the old mass or the tradentine mass.

It was modified so that those who don't understand Latin would understand the mass and some other stuff were removed while others were added to help modern people understand and worship better.

But many people like the old mass and the Catholic Church allows priest who knows how to celebrate it to do so.

michlins:
This news isn't complete. They should have explained what the traditional mass if like

it is the normal Catholic worship from about 1500-1960 it is called the extraordinary form of the Latin mass or the vetus ordo or the old mass or the tradentine mass.

It was modified so that those who don't understand Latin would understand the mass and some other stuff were removed while others were added to help modern people understand and worship better.

But many people like the old mass and the Catholic Church allows priest who knows how to celebrate it to do so.

majamajic:
come back ke , they will form their own Church and continue from there

nope

I happen to know the priests in question, what they are after is an older form of Catholic worship not a break from the church.

Naturally there is a provision in the Catholic church that allows them to use the older form of worship but they need to do either of two things.:

1. Use the older form while maintaining their parishes as given the them by the Bishop and under his full authority.
2. Or form a religious congregation under the Vatican department called ecclesia dei, and be directly under the Pope...

The wahala here is that they left their post given to them by their legitimate Bishop and the accompanying ministry, and are doing stuff on their own... It seems they are not under the Vatican either and people are suspecting they are under SSPX, that means they are in an irregular state.

Hence the Bishop has withdrawn their priestly faculties... That is a harsh punishment for a priest.

They have options... I pray they use the right ones

Maximus69:
They're agitating in agony since they can't accept the truth!

You're 100% right buda, Satan actually attempted polluting Jesus! Luke 4:2-13
These are atheists in disguise claiming Christians, so even if you show them in black and white they will still come back to tell you Jesus never came in the flesh!
Whereas what made it possible for Satan to overthrow any of his victims is their fleshly desires.
Since Jesus has returned in the spirit as a king, he has been monitoring his group so that Satan can't overthrow it anymore the way he did in the second century replacing it with the Pagan Roman worship called Catholic Church!

so in the 2nd century the Devil replaced the true church with the Catholic Church?

How come the Christians didn't know or notice this because the same people who were Christians in the 1st century were the same people in the 2nd century, in fact more Christians were killed in the second and third centuries for their faith....

They all were blind that the devil had taken over the church?

If the devil really took over that means Jesus is a liar because he promised to be with the church till the end of the ages and promised that the gates of Hades will never prevail against her....
I am surprise you believe that Hades prevailed in the 2nd century.

Nodogragra4me:
Jesus gave the holy spirit to teach us... Your church says it knows all the truth and therefor, it is the ground and pillar of the truth

my church actually says she is led into all truth by the Holy Spirit and that the church is the pillar and bulwark of truth just as the Bible says she is.




1 Timothy 3:15
New International Version
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

So yes my church is the pillar and bulwark of truth.

Your church says there is a purgatory it has designed for her members... Neither Jesus not any of the apostles including Peter you guys referred to as your First pope knew about this...a pope many years after the apostles left this Earth came up with that idea

read up 1 cor 3:15

Your church prays to God through intermediaries including your Mary... Jesus never taught this nor the apostles... Jesus ask us to pray to the father in his name.... God himself operates, ask of me.... Not through third parties

not true.

We pray to the Father through his son Jesus Christ in the company of the Holy Spirit and in the company of the angels and saints.

Your church practices infant baptism introduced by a pope not the apostles

So many practices of your church has no link to Jesus Christ and his teachings.... But your church believes in reality in God but lukewarm about Jesus... Mary has more role in your church than Jesus... The holy spirit is not even reckon with in the actual operations of your church.... Your pope is your holy spirit

lie lie.
Which pope started infant baptism?
All practice in my church is linked to Jesus either through scriptures, Apostolic tradition or in consonance with the power Jesus gave to the church.

Protestantism is an internal disagreement within your church... Somebody saw the scripture and noticed many contradiction between your practice and what is written. He decided to fight in fa out if it is written like Jesus did. We are Pentecostals... Born on the day of Pentecost. Catholic Church was born and funded by the USA of that era, Rome.... The new mttleylaff guy has mentioned the formation

Lol


Protestantism is in internal disagreement with itself, over 2000 different denominations who can't agree, each of them in disagreement and anarchy and confusion.

Since you don't even know how your Protestantism was formed let me inform you.
A Catholic monk called Luther was always feeling guilty about his sins even though he was told that once he repents God is ready to forgive... So he decided to beat himself up about it and when he wasn't satisfied he decided to look up the Bible and there he found a passage in Romans that say "the just shall live by faith", he decided to change the passage and write "the just shall live by faith ALONE" and he used this to justify himself that so far he believes in God all his sins do not matter. He was condemned for adding to the Bible and teaching heresy so he formed his so church to protest against the Catholic Church, that is the beginning of Protestantism.

Pentecostalism is even more recent it was formed less than 200 years ago in USA in the azuza street revival. It has no historical link to the historical Pentecost

RandomGuy48:
Exactly which pope did this?

lol.

Let me await his response

hush15:
what is the political sagacity about a midget who thinks his way is the only way. So because his party wants one person, there shouldnt be competition and we should expect an independent NASS?

what is expected of his is to recieve all interest aspirants and tell to show spirit of sportmanship not giving orders like an emperor. So Ali Ndume, Umar Bago will be punished for contesting... this man na clown

if he accepted everyone PDP would have won.

DonMekino:
You guys always talk of party party party and how it's bigger than all n sundry.... Is party human beings?? It's ppl that still make up the almighty party, and there's always room for dissenting voices, that's why they are humans. Assuming u start fighting ndume, what end are u going to achieve, remember power is meant to be retained after being won

it won't be an all out war, just a little discipline