₦airaland Forum

stankezzy:
catholic is not even the first church , old testament , moses and up till jesus were jews , their religion is Judaism but before jesus left he breathed upon them and said recieve the Holy Ghost , Peter, Paul and the rest apostles were penticostals , they speak in tounges and do miracles and do pentecostal things , it was after the death of the apostles that Romans that used to be idle worshipers now combined idle worshiping with Christianity to form roman catholic so pentecostal came before catholic

lol, Pentecostalism began in the 19th century with the azusa revival and the like, you guys weren't even around 300 years ago talk less or during the apostolic times. Speaking in tongues and doing miracles are not Pentecostal church property even Catholics do same. I guess it is Kenneth Higgins who said miracles happen more in Catholic churches than in Pentecostal ones

ichuka:
Bro Jesus NEVER took an atom of flesh from Mary.rather He became flesh in Mary!!
Two different things.
John1:14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
He became flesh in Mary.
An incubator don't share it's contituent with it's product.
Not possible.
In doubt?
Ask the poultry farmers for a start.

i

The Bible pretty much is clear on this, Mary was not an Incubator, she is a mother, in CONCEIVED her son Jesus not just incubate him. She conceived, bore and birthed him that is how he became flesh.

Luke 1:31

And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

solite3:
I didn't deny the hypostatic union
Jesus has been God even before he took upon him the human nature.
Jesus humanity began from Mary's womb not his divine nature.

you have already denied the hypostatic Union unless you don't know the meaning of hypostatic Union, right now you are in Nestorianism.


The Word of God is God, jn 1:1, that same became flesh in the womb of Mary jn 1:14 , Luke 1, and was born of her.

The everlasting Word of the most high took flesh and was born of Mary, she is his mother.

solite3:
yes Jesus took flesh in the womb of Mary while being already God which means Mary is not the mother of God but of the man Christ Jesus.

God took flesh in the womb of Mary and she gave birth to him, God and man. Unless you wish to tell me when the divine nature joined the human nature of Jesus.

brocab:
Really it doesn't matter-Uben again you are flying of the handle-indulgence purgatory, is the same as tithing, it's about the Church needing more money every week, and what better way is to lie' that money can save lives? Catholic's believed Indulgence can stop you from burning in hell for eternity, it is good news to hear the Catholic's had stop portraying lies for the Money-but the damage had already began, it will take years before the Catholic's would know any truth-most Catholic's haven't seen a bible, let alone reading one!
I don't believe the Church would back down if someone confessed there sins to a priest, and paid: that extra cash of indulgence and purgatory. The priest would accept it with flying colours-he wouldn't even mention it, he would keep his mouth shut-instead of saying-keep your money the Church was wrong for teaching that lie, he would put your money into the treasury and your sins are forgiven..

you still don't make sense.


No one pays money for forgiveness of sins, no one pays for indulgence no more. Indulgence has nothing to do with money, its about prayer and good works, some time ago giving alms to the church was considered indulgenced and some bishops in Germany decided to overemphasized the monetary part. The church removed the whole alms issue because of that abuse.

The problem was solved, you guys should begin solving yours

herich:
Is not still enough to quote everyone here, by trying to convince them that your belief is not paganistic in doctrine, even if you and your folks travel round the world to preach that Catholic don't engage in idolatry,,,,,,, it won't still change the view of an average non Catholics on how they feel bout Catholic church.

the views of an average non Catholic is usually biased, the best I can do is clarify their misconceptions.

MuttleyLaff:
Examples. Like what?

for starters the prosperity gospel that turns God into a money bag and becomes weird when pastors threaten with cursed and hell fire over tithe.

It is one of such poo that the Pentecostal churches allow, add that to the love of fragmenting into contradictory sects....

solite3:
Jesus divine nature exist beyond time and space.
it is distinct and separate from its human nature.

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

his divine nature is from all eternity, beyond space, beyond time, in fact he himself created both space and time.


but when that divine person decided to come to us for our salvation, he took flesh in the womb of Mary and Mary gave birth to a person who is both God and man.


trying to dodge it is just futile

2buffagain:
I am very much informed.
"Through Mary we succeed"...Why not just make up your minds and call yourselves Marians instead of Christians.

Anyway not gonna involve in a religious fight though. That yields nothing.

mariology is part and parcel of Christian theology, it is funny you seem ignorant of this.


Catholic women are expected to imitate the example of Mary in motherhood, of course though her example and prayers they succeed.

that greeting is used by the Catholic women not even the whole church.

brocab:
Maybe you don't believe-but if indulgence doesn't exist, then Wikipedia must be lying to the public. Selling Forgiveness: How Money Sparked the Protestant Reformation-if indulgence doesn't exist then this video of a priest below is lying to the public..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YxWzxnk1KY
It's the money that had destroyed the kingdom of God, "man would love Mammon more then they Love God..Why do we have so many verses in the bible that was against Mammon, Satan said: bow down before me, and I will give you everything you ask..

I didn't say there are no indulgence, I said Catholics pay for indulgence no more. some bishops were using it to make money. the church reform such practices and made sure nobody was made to pay for indulgence.

as I said it is time you guys handle your own poo.

solite3:
@bold see vain pride
sorry the hypostatic union is obvious from the holy bible.
Mary birthed two natures?really where did you get that from ?when Jesus was a baby was God also a baby too? when Jesus grew in knowledge dud God grew in knowledge too? if not then God was never born,
yes it was only Jesus flesh that Mary gave birth to

if may didn't give birth to Jesus with a divine nature and a human nature, please tell us when did the divine nature join the human nature that you say Mary gave birth to.



you have already denied the hypostatic union in the your post and have veered into Nestorianism.

let's look at this scripture

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

the writer of Hebrews clearly distinguished the human father and the heavenly father, the human father is called the father of our flesh but Benedictus might argue with him saying " so you mean my father only fathered my flesh not my spirit? so all this time he took care of me, it is just flesh?"
in the same way, Mary is only the mother of Jesus according to the flesh nothing more

Auladimeji:
I will advise her not to accept your proposal.She shouldn't be equally yoke with unbelievers(Catholic; You guys worship images)

Catholics are not unbelievers and they don't worship images.


be informed about something before stereotyping people in ignorance

2buffagain:
Why do you people get into marriage-focused relationships that you have no intentions of finalizing properly?

Catholicism is a religion.
Pentecostalism is too, but it is less a typical religion like Catholicism, which relies on too many peganistic traditions that put Christ on the sideline.

Catholicism is a dangerous thing to be into in these last days.
Come out of it.



@bolded. Can you imagine? Case in point...

again be informed.


nothing pagan in Catholicism

aragon4realz:
it's not always about the s3x...it's all about compatibility and commitment...but the truth is I can't give up my church for her, she should be the one doing that for me

or you guys can have a mixed marriage.


a middle ground is always possible, it is hard but possible.

slivertongue:
I think ending celibacy wud go a long way in reducing if nt ending these abuses because 'body no b wood'

the majority of child abuse in the world are committed my married people. pedophilia is a condition, marriage does not cure it

brocab:
petra1: Is Catholic, they don't call their giving a tithe, because there main focus is on purgatory and indulgence, they believe paying into there treasury, saves them abundantly, it's a get out of Hell card, it saves them from burning.
But I suppose tithers, believe tithing blesses them, the more they tithe, God's building their mansions in heaven..

Catholics don't pay for indulgence no more. you guys show correct your own shit

solite3:
Mary gave birth to the man Jesus only not his divine nature.

if Mary gave birth to the man Jesus only as you claim, please tell us at what time after his birth did the God Jesus now joined the man Jesus and became both God and man.

solite3:
Mary gave birth to the man Jesus only not his divine nature.
one cannot claim to the father or mother of the child that did not originate from him or her, so you cannot say Mary is the mother of God since God didn't originated from her.

for your question, my mother is not the mother of my spirit after death the relationship of mother and child no longer holds.
she became a mother on earth and on earth it ends.

sorry to say this but this is silly.


my mother is not the origin of my spirit but she gave birth to me both spirit and body, I can't go and start saying she is half mother or fleshy mother, she gave birth to a person both spirit and body, she is the mother of that person.


mother does NOT mean originator aka principle of existence.

mother is simply the person who gave birth to you and nurtured you.


Mary gave birth to Jesus, God and man, she didn't create him but she gave birth to him, she is his mother.

solite3:
did Jesus uncaused nature change after incernation? how come Jesus said before Abraham he was already existing? and yet he was young, learn to separate Jesus human nature from his divine nature and you are on your way to understanding the scripture.

this should help you, it is from the anathasian creed.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.





his uncaused divine nature didn't change, he who is God took to himself human nature in the womb of the virgin Mary and in his one person is both God and man without forsaking his divine nature or losing it or intermingling it. he is God and since his incarnation he is both God and man, and Mary gave birth to him, one person possessing two natures.


I already know how to separate Jesus human nature from his divine nature, heck it is we Catholics who defined the doctrine of the hypostatic union you guy simply came later and adopted it. it is I who should tell you to learn more about it.

the topic of the thread still remains, God took flesh in the womb of Mary and was born Jesus,God and man. Mary gave birth to a son who had two natures, she bore and birthed to God incarnate (God in human nature). she is his mother, you can't dodge it. funny enough the same council the set forth the hypostatic union also affirmed the Mary gave birth to God incarnate, she is Theotokus.

solite3:
good to know there is no mediatrix anywhere and Jesus Is The only mediator. so no dead saint can interceed for you.

as usual you've got it wrong, there is but one mediator between God and man and out of his fullness all who are members of his body has received grace upon grace and a participation in him.

all who are member of his church are now intercessors, every single Christian is now in Christ a mediator/mediatrix for his fellow man. so every saint can intercede for me.

I agree that the saints are alive to God but not to you, to you they are dead and remain so till Christ come.


so those apparitions appearing to people who are they?


so you are connected to all the saints in what way pls clarify,?

we are connected to the saints as members of Christ, we are all members of his body, in him we all have fellowship.

Colossians 1:20
and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:


Jesus is the connection between the saints in heaven and those on earth, we are all united in him and form one body.


more interestingly when we worship here on earth we do so in the complex of the saints not just alone or with only the physically alive.


heb 12:22

Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly
Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23 in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the judge of all men, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,…

Dantedasz:
Fist off,I want you to know that I know more about the Catholic church than you can ever know. You might carry yourself like the Voltron of Catholics on this forum but I assure you that where your knowledge of the catholic church ends is where my knowledge begins.
In response,I sincerely advise you to read widely concerning your church because there are a lot of books concerning Pope Pius xii and the general concencus of scholars is that while he mouthed inanities about the fate of the gassed Jews,overall he pretended to be unaware of the arocities of Hitler and Musolini becausr he generally felt Hitler and Musolini were a lesser evil than the communist Josef Stalin. End result six million Jews gassed to death by the Nazis and thus creating the precursor of the Arab-Israeli coflicts that last till today.

If the Vatican is truthful and honest they should stop releasing snippets of the documents in the secret archives that favours the church. The pope should in particular release documents in the archives of the atrocities committed by the Catholic church from 1939-1945. Those are the documents historians want to see.

because in your mind the pope has a great army that he could use to fight against Hitler and prevent him from taking the Jews abi?

it was this same pope that was instrumental in drafting the encyclical mite Brenda sorge which condemned Nazism, this same pope was actually been occupied by musulini in Italy who was sometimes allied with Hitler.

this same pope saved 4700 roman Jews out of the over 5000 that as earmarked and kept 477 in his residence and others in over 150 Catholic institutions like convents, monasteries, churches, seminaries.

the Catholic church rescued more Jews than all other churches and rescue organizations combined.

Dantedasz:
Fist off,I want you to know that I know more about the Catholic church than you can ever know. You might carry yourself like the Voltron of Catholics on this forum but I assure you that where your knowledge of the catholic church ends is where my knowledge begins.
In response,I sincerely advise you to read widely concerning your church because there are a lot of books concerning Pope Pius xii and the general concencus of scholars is that while he mouthed inanities about the fate of the gassed Jews,overall he pretended to be unaware of the arocities of Hitler and Musolini becausr he generally felt Hitler and Musolini were a lesser evil than the communist Josef Stalin. End result six million Jews gassed to death by the Nazis and thus creating the precursor of the Arab-Israeli coflicts that last till today.

If the Vatican is truthful and honest they should stop releasing snippets of the documents in the secret archives that favours the church. The pope should in particular release documents in the archives of the atrocities committed by the Catholic church from 1939-1945. Those are the documents historians want to see.

because in your mind the pope has a great army that he could use to fight against Hitler and prevent him from taking the Jews abi?

it was this same pope that was instrumental in drafting the encyclical mite Brenda sorge which condemned Nazism, this same pope was actually been occupied by musulini in Italy who was sometimes allied with Hitler.

this same pope saved 4700 roman Jews out of the over 5000 that as earmarked and kept 477 in his residence and others in over 150 Catholic institutions like convents, monasteries, churches, seminaries.

solite3:
Jesus flesh took origin from Mary not his unchangeable divine nature.

did your spirit take origin from your parents or is it from God?



I didn't ask the origin of anything, I asked,


when Mary gave birth to Jesus was it just the flesh of Jesus that she gave birth to or the full Jesus body, spirit and divinity?



nobody thus far has claimed that Mary is the origin of Jesus divine nature, the question is whether or not Mary gave birth to the flesh alone or the whole Jesus

Dantedasz:
I hope you are conversant with the term "Vatican secret archives?" Archives hidden in the Vatican that contain volumes of files of atrocities committed by the Catholics against humanity and I hope you are aware that any serving Pope is the sole custodian of access to these archives?
Let the Catholics open up the secret archives especially from 1939-1945. I hope you are educated on the term "Hitler's Pope" which refers to Pope Pius XII and his conduct of not once condemning Hitler's persecution of the gassing of millions of Jews. Pope Pius tacit support of the Nazis and Mussolini in Italy is a well known fact.

the Vatican archives are not custodian of atrocities, they are the place the church documents for over centuries are kept, the archives are sometimes opened for academic research, be informed.

the same pope puis who was lauded by the Jews in Rome for saving them and coordinated the church efforts to save millions of Jews including hiding them in the Vatican, or do you mean the pope who released the encyclical mite brenda sorge against Nazism.

you have your history backwards.

Dantedasz:
So the Catholic thread is allergic to truth about abuse and rape of children by Catholic priests? I did not know that disclosing the truth has a time limit?
I did not know that once abuse has been discussed once on a thread,it can not be discussed again?
What are you afraid of? You are more interested in defending the rot in the Catholic church than seeking justice for decades of abuse perpetrated by Priests hiding under religion?
Sickening.
Oh,I get it now,this is a thread where Catholics hide their heads in the sand like ostriches,so the stench of the carcass of abuse perpetrated by their priests and Nuns does not get to their nostrils. The hypocrisy on this thread makes me sick to my stomach.
What about the victims

here again you have began throwing tantrums like a kid.


put your post in the right thread, is that too hard to do?

live4dgospel:
Initially I thought I had problem understanding the grammar (whichever language it was translated from, I know those who did the translation, did it according to his original words so it can never be their fault), but upon closer look I came to understand that your father Ignatius really fulfilled this Scripture: "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little. For with stammering lips and another tongue. He will speak to this people."(Isaiah 28:10-11) However I was able to grab this message: 'Believers must obey the law, and the force of the law is still binding to them' In order words, if they fail in the law they will end up in hell! I hope you share the same faith with him.

Nothing made the people absolutely righteous in Old Testament, neither circumcision nor sacrificial system was able to do that. As it is written "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second."(Hebrews 8:7) Only through faith was God able to accept the ones who believed His words like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob David etc. The Circumcision and sacrificial system are all the prefigurations(spiritual significance) of the New Covenant.
The Circumcision was given to Abraham, the Law and the Sacrificial system were given to Moses. Now, Noah lived before Abraham and Moses, what did the Scriptures say about Noah? He was a righteous man! What then made him righteous? Of course, Faith in the word of God! What about Abraham, did he meet the Law of Moses? No! But he was made righteous by the same faith, as it is written "Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness"(Genesis 15:6)
As you can see, even before the Commandment of Circumcision was given to Abraham (Genesis 17:10-12), Abraham has already be declared righteous!

Now listen well to the answer to your second question and my new question:

In a nutshell you asked "are we free" to disobey the law of Moses. There is nothing like 'free' whatever the word mean to you, humans commit sins because they cannot help themselves. They were conceived in sins and they inherited the 12 kinds of sins from Adam. You probably do not understand the law well, according to the law, if you lust after a woman in the street you are not only guilty of fornication but of murder, idol worship, theft etc (James 2:10). So the answer is we are not commanded to disobey the law but to obey it, but however we cannot perfectly obey the law because only by perfect obedience can we be made righteous through the law. Has anyone be able to obey perfectly? From your Popes, to Priests, Monks, Nuns etc? In this New Covenant are we righteous by obeying the law of God or by faith alone? I mean must we obey the law to be able to enter the kingdom of God? I think it's a direct question that requires direct answer.

funny enough your submission agrees with Ireneus you seem to be criticising.

no one can perfectly obey the law, that is why we have Jesus , the power of his death and the new life in the spirit, he who lives according to the spirit will fulfill the righteous demands of the law, he who live according to the flesh will certainly die.

we are justified by grace through faith so that we may live by the spirit. and if we live by the spirit we will fulfill the righteous demands of the law.

Dantedasz:
How is abuse against victims by Catholic priests off topic?
Why are Catholics scared of the truth?
If you feel these truthful videos about conduct of Catholic priests is off point,I believe the report button is available to all Catholics who are offended by these honest videos which appear to be touching you close to your heart .

this is a thread for Catholics to chat with each other, it is like a rest room for Catholics on nairaland, we don't banter here, as you may have noticed the issue of abuse was talked about even before u arrived.


filling the thread with abuse videos just won't do it especially as you already have a thread on abuse cases.



this is the aim of this thread


This Thread is for Catholics Nairaland and all interested to enjoy a
chat with one another. It is simply a place where
Catholics can meet with each other daily,
leave Bible verses of encouragement,
motivational talks, leave prayer
requests,offer prayers, provide a listening
ear to each other, provide comfort, care
for one another, talk about issues of
concern and interest, share knowledge,
provide love, spiritual and moral support and Also Post some Interesting Things About The Catholic church.
U can also Ask Any Question you have.


we are hardly ignorant of this cases, put them in the right thread.

budaatum:
Next time anyone tells me God is an uncaused uncaused, or however they put it, I'm quoting you!

God is Mary's son. She named him Jesus.

he is the uncaused cause and when he came as man he was born of Mary.

OLAADEGBU:
Rather, you enjoy praying to the cloud of many witnesses instead of praying to the One and Only God.

no dear, I enjoy praying to the one true God with the cloud of many witness

solite3:
what I meant is Jesus only relationship with Mary is through the flesh nothing more.
there are differences between Jesus as God and as a man.
these two natures did not mix.
Jesus as a man has a beginning and that is through Mary but Jesus as God had no beginning hence Mary is never the mother of God but of the man Jesus.

when Mary gave birth to Jesus did she give birth to a flesh alone Jesus or the whole Jesus spirit, body, soul and divinity?

blueAgent:
You contracdict yourself you accept Pauls words and yet reject his teachings.
Paul never preached to people that Mary was mother of God nethier did he pray or worship Mary.

I accept both paul , his words and his teaching.

Gal 4:4 say God sent his son born of a woman, if the son of God is God and he is born of a woman, then she is his mother.

solite3:
[

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;



@bold what was your argument about. The bible says they are dead, they have no business with you.

They are with God till the resurrection and not the apparition.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1. amen Jesus is the one mediator, and through him all the members of his body has the right to make Intercession.


2. actually for God they are all alive and in Christ I am connect to them.