₦airaland Forum

Dantedasz:
The fact is that the Vatican has a history of suppression of religious documents running for decades. They are known to have twisted and hidden scriptures that are not favourable to the Catholic creed. The Catholic church and the pope even have a history of supporting Hitler and the Nazis Only a brainwashed minion will believe the official reason for Benedict's resignation from the papacy. There is more than meets the eye in that resignation.

the Vatican does not twist or hide scriptures, that is untrue, neither the Vatican nor the pope supported the Nazi in their crimes in fact the Vatican was among the earliest authority to condemn Nazi crimes and issued an encyclical to that effect, the Vatican also saved countless Jews from the Holocaust, Joseph ratzinger was forceful conscripted into the army and he deserted when the war came. so your idea of support is untrue.


I stand by my comments, you can't purport to know someone's motives and reasons better than the person.

Dantedasz:
Kid?
I can bet my bottom dollar,I am older than you, however that is besides the point. On this thread I have posted uncountable videos of victims of sick,cruel and inhuman abuse. This abuse was carried out by Catholic priests and nuns on school children placed in their care. There is even a video of s grown man who went to visit his abuser in a hospital where the priest was living out the last years of his life ravaged by sickness. The grown man tells the camera that he can enter that hospital and take the life of his abuser but he is not going to do it.
I bring up this story to make you understand that some of the abused children may forgive but some will not forgive.
The Catholic church has sheild so many priests accused of abuse through intmidation,endless litigation and outright bribery of victims,but I assure you that there is a limit and sooner than later some of the victims of priests abuse will fight and strike back with vengeance and rage by taking the law into their own hands.
Mark my words.

a person can be 100 years old and still throw tantrums like a kid. tantrums as you earlier exhibited seems to happen even with adult. it is a description of you behaviour not an enquiry into your age.

And I have been consistent in saying all abuse case should be investigated and tried and the offenders punished. horrific child abuse happened, some bishops handled the cases wrongly and that took is wrong, there were cases settled out of court, I've heard of bishops who stonewalled victims into silence, but I do not know any case of endless litigation by church officials without cause.

Even so, the Catholic church has reformed the way these are handled as your last link shows, no bishop today would intimidate a victim to silence, or hide such cases, instead the case is reported immediately to the police, the accused is removed from ministry and tried and if guilty punished.


in the recent case you posted did you hear anything about the church intimidating the alleged victim or shielding the priest or bribing anyone?


no one is taking the law into his own hands because in this case the law is allowed to run it full course.

Dantedasz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHQJCmsFd9k

dantedasz, this is a thread for Catholics, not your abuse thread.


if you have an issue you think Catholics can help you with say it, if your aim is to simply paste abuse videos then do that on your thread about abuse....

there are rules on nairaland against posting off topic, put the abuse videos in the abuse thread, this thread isn't for that.

Dantedasz:
Watch this. Forget the official story of Benedict's resignation. It's all a spin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q2HSJ6cbMY

this your guy suddenly knows the reason for pope Benedict resignation better than Benedict himself abi?

Dantedasz:

I thought you earlier stated that all the Catholic priests accused of sexually abusing children were all dead and that the abuse happened many years ago?
Is McCarrick a ghost?
In fact McCarrick was accused of several cases of sexually abusing children and as such was removed from position of authority in the church by the last Pope Benedict.
Pope Francis assumed office,pardoned McCarrick and gave him more position of authority despite being warned by Carlo Vigano that McCarrick is a serial child abuser .
This is the reason why Vigano asked Pope Francis to resign. Please stop sugar coating issues .

mccarrick was not accused of abusing children until recently, he was previously accused of abusing adult seminarians(which is still totally wrong).

strictly speaking mccarrick had resigned from ministry in 2006 when he attained the canonical age of 75 and pope Benedict accepted his resignation. he was recently accused of child abuse that allegedly happened 40 years ago...he claims he is innocent of the child abuse case.


so yes most child abuse cases you will find happened decades ago, the accused is usually either dead or no longer in ministry, unfortunately, mccarrick was called back to work by the Vatican after his resignation.

the same case I related is what you related, I didn't sugarcoat anything.

Dantedasz:


If you Catholics think you can continue abusing little children in your care and when accused try to tie up the cases in endless court litigation till they kingdom come,you guys are in for a rude awakening when the victims start taking the law into their own hands.
Sick fvcks!

you are just throwing tantrums like a kid.

I asked you a question, would you like a similar treatment if you were accused of a crime, is it right that an accused person is presumed guilty even before trial, would you love such treatment.


there are no such thing as Catholics trying to tie up this case in endless litigation, in fact the church has done no such thing in this case, the accused was immediately reported to law enforcement and prevented from ministry, there was no foot dragging or time wasting or aimless litigation.

or are you one of those people who believe an accused person should not have his day in court, or you only throw away the presumption of innocence because you are biased against Catholics?

the Church handled the issue well and it shows your bias when you seem to accuse Catholics for doing the right thing in this case.

SalC:
https://www.nairaland.com/4727693/reverend-father-jude-egbuom-killed#71104950

Our parish priest was murdered yesterday. Am speechless. Rest in peace Padre.

eternal rest grant unto him oh lord.




seems he was shot multiple times, it doesn't look like a robbery to me, it looks like an assassination.

vicfy:
“The Archdiocese was advised by law enforcement to delay until today release of this information while they initiated their investigation.” ....allegations is all I see

until proven in a competent court

Dantedasz:
The priest
What about the freaking victim??
You Catholics make me sick!!

the alleged victim has had her say, the court will determine the truthfulness of her allegation and punish accordingly.

the accused on the other hand has already been judged even before he is found guilty, he has already lost everything even before the trial began. justice demands that the accused is presumed innocent until proven otherwise by a court of competent jurisdiction.

the guy has lost his job, he has been evicted from his residence by the church, all priestly faculties has been withdrawn and he is banned from parish property. that is unjust, he has been profiled guilty until proven innocent.


if you were accused of a crime and hasn't been found guilty do you think it is just that you should be sacked(instead of suspension), driven from your home etc?


that is objectively unjust.

and if you can't see that maybe it is you who is sick.

bigfrancis21:
I don't support the man's actions (if true) but this happened since 2006 and he's just being prosecuted now? Isn't there supposed to be a statue of limitations (maximum number of years elapsed) for an incident to be reported?

in the u.s the teachers Union will prevent a case from going forward if it was reported 6 months after the crime. but in general law the status of limitation is about 15 years, so the accuser is right on time

Dantedasz:
Read this-
https://www.nairaland.com/4728527/rev-christian-ohazulume-sacked-arrested#71118877

that is a link to an allegation of sexual abuse against a Nigerian Catholic priest in Boston. immediately the diocese received the complaint, police was contacted, the priest was removed from ministry, removed from parish property, his work place was contacted and he lost his job.


as far as I can see the diocese has handled this well even to the point of been unjust to the priest, an allegation has been made, the case is in court and the priest has pleaded not guilty. until a verdict is reached I will keep my fingers crossed.

still doesn't contradict the point I made, abuse is less likely with priests than with relations or teachers

Proffdada:
I think it's one of the pagan practices infused into Catholicism

this is not true, celibacy and continence were practiced in the early church even before Christianity was granted freedom. It wasn't adopted from the pagans but instead from the teaching of Jesus and his apostles, the practice of the church and an understanding of the old testament.


You can read what the early church wrote on it, it isn't pagan.

Arondizuogu:
These abuses have been going on for decades. I applaud Pope Francis for facing it and ordering an investigation. I'm not Catholic, but I do know that conservative Cardinals are not happy with a Liberal Francis. That is why they are all pushing for his removal! Why didn't Archbishop Vigano say all these earlier on, Yes it was terrible what happened and is still happening but calling for the resignation of Francis is blatant politics which will never leave the church.

it is not exactly politics, it isn't liberal vs conservative, it is about that abuse in the church and how it is handled. It is impossible to unseat a pope and forcing him to resign is invalid. But the pope must be willing to stand up and say this is what happened, not just run away from the issue as if it isn't there.

lacum:
I am not doubting the fact that the Church will bounce back. just saying that Francis might be innocent. I listened to Bishop Baron who said that it is difficult to monitor Bishops because they have so much power. you see, when you accuse a bishop of something like this you really need enough evidence to back yourself up if not, it will be difficult for the Pope to just believe you and discredit the bishop

yes, even the Bible requires the evidence of two people before sentence is passed, but records show that the Vatican has known this since about 2000 during the time of st pope John Paul, he was already ill then and wasn't the type to believe such accusations against bishops, he promoted mccarrick, the thing was reported again during the time of pope Benedict and mccarrick was allowed to go live quietly... All these things were in mccarrick's file, he had already reached canonical retirement... He was allowed to just retire...I don't understand why anybody will chose to knowingly bring such a person out of retirement and back to the limelight on behalf of the Vatican.

TheMadame:
I would like to respond to your post but you keep on amending your posts so many times that what one responds to is now made to look a different thing.
Please stop amending your posts after you have been responded to. It does not make for a fair debate. Thank you.

What I am saying is the abused children need justice. The catholic church has not been just to these abused children because the priests are coveniently dead or transfered to another country or being protected outright by the catholic church.

it is true, I have added to some of my posts but I haven't changed anything I previously wrote, I haven't wrote a "different thing", i usually post unfinished posts for fear of losing them. But I won't do that again on this thread for your sake.

You are correct, the abused children needs justice, the mechanism for dealing with abuse years ago was heavily defective.
In the 90s the medical consensus was that pedophilia was a psychological sickness that can be cured with therapy. So when priests were accused of pedophilia the Bishop would takes them to the doctors who will treat them and certify that they are well and fit to go back to ministry, the bishop simply puts the treated priest back to ministry and the ugly circle is repeated, it took years for the bishops to learn that that system does not work.

That has long changed, any allegation of sexual abuse today the church immediately reports to the police, the priest is immediately suspended from ministry until a canonical trial and a legal trial, those guilty will face prison and will be removed from the priesthood, that is the current system and it is just and largely unfair to the accused priest who most times is not given a fair hearing by the church. The rate of abuse has since decreased and we pray it goes down to zero, but even right now the Catholic church has the most updated guidelines for dealing with abuse.

Priests who are accused are not shielded and even if that priest accused is dead and cannot answer for himself the church Will still pay millions in compensation to the victims.

Horrible crimes happened, but it is not so today.

Lordabas:
Was it to be certain that priests (and popes) would leave no heirs, seeking to inherit church wealth?

no, not really.


Celibacy was a practice in the early church among ministers, but it had a brother called continence.
Pls
Celibacy and continence worked hand in hand in the early church and was based upon the biblical principle that is was good to stay away from sexual relations during time of prayer, more so the minister who constantly presided over the Eucharist.... It is from the early church that the practice is traced from with biblical support.

Of course the practice of celibacy became instrumental in stopping nepotism in the medieval time.

This will help you to understand the practice of celibacy and continence In the Catholic church, it comes from the early church with biblical principles,
http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/79-history/465-celibacy-in-the-early-church.html

Caveatemptor:
Guy, when you born pikin carry am put for day care wey Catholic priest dey run you hear.
Na sorry go be your middle name . No need for arguement.

I go day care run by Catholic clergy, my brothers too and my sister, also my mum, my sister worked in a nursery school ran by Catholic clergy, and I in particular spent much of my childhood with Catholic priests, none abused me, none abused us, or anyone I know. I have no problem sending my kids to a day care run by Catholic priests. In fact that is the place they are least likely to be abused.


In fact statistics show that if 1000 people are abused in a year, 300 of them was by family members, father, mother or relations, 600 of them were abused by close associate liked teachers, nanny, family friends and acquittance, 100 by stranger. Among those abused by associate, teachers abused at least 100.

Clergy of whatever religion will statistically abuse 2% which is about 20 with the current strict policy In the Catholic church the likelihood goes very small.

So the least likely place for a child to be abused is a Catholic clergy, My kid is much safer with a priest than with a teacher or even a relative.


Even at that I am committed to helping my church be even more safer and abuse totally eradicated, abusers prosecuted.

doyinbaby:
is that rosary prayer "hail holy queen " biblical..... your church the catholic church has ascribed to Mary roles the Bible did not give her.....

that is because the hail holy queen prayer is composed like a poem not doctrine, much of what is there is correct doctrinal, others are flowery language a citizen will use to address his Queen or a son will use in addressing his mother.

Dantedasz:
Jesus H Christ!!!
You Catholics just don't get it do you?
All forms of sexual abuse are wrong. If you check my posting history I am not supporting any religious organisation. I am all for justice for victims of sexual abuse in the church.
What you Catholics have been doing on this thread is to fail to apportion blame to priests and Nuns who have serially abused children in their care. Name and shame any body who uses the sheild of religion to abuse children kept in their care. Let the abused children recieve justice. What you Catholics have been doing is tantamount to saying-"Yeah,there is abuse in the Catholic church but we are not the only ones,look across the road,see the protestants and Muslims are abusing children too."
Catholics should remove the log in their eyes before removing the log in the protestant and Muslims eyes.

all abusers of course should face the law, that post doesn't dispute that or shift the blame. instead it questions the objectivity generalising priest as abusers and saying that kid are unsafe whenever a priest is around. that is just wrong.

gwama:
Precisely, it is this last category of priests who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of God, who commit all these sexual crimes, because in doing so the will of man alone is not enough.

the will of man isnt enough, they must be men of God

Dantedasz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz5W97XmNw8

just watched this, this guy committed crimes in the 70s and 80s, he was kicked out of the priesthood and he just went on and reinvented himself in another place.

Dantedasz:
@ubenedictus,
The more I read your posts on this issue,the more it is clear you did not watch the videos or you are being deliberately ignorant.
If all the priests have died according to you should the Catholic church not name and shame them? Why is the pope reinstating clergy men who are known abusers to office?
Why are you mentioning protestants when we are discussing Catholics? How is abuse by the Catholics different from abuse by protestants? Abuse is abuse but the Catholic church led by Pope Francis has been sheilding the priests accused of abuse!
Finally,when you finish reading I have two questions for you-
1.Why did Pope Benedict resign from office?
2.Why did Archbishop Carlo Vigano ask Pope Francis to resign from the papacy?
I await your response.

I didn't watch your videos because I have long been following the abuse issue for close to 5 years. it is not new to me. the video will not provide me with information I don't have already.


some diocese in the US have began doing that, they publish names of accused priest on their website, there is a downside to that because it open the diocese to false litigation just to get money. from what I read of pope Francis he seems to be reducing the canonical penalties against some accused because he believes that mercy must be part of justice. I don't believe pope Francis has shielded any body from police investigation.

if abuse is abuse then condemn all of it not just because they are Catholics.

Benedict resigned because he said his energy was failing and a more energetic person needed.

vigano is asking for the popes resignation because he accuses the pope of removing canonical penalties instituted against card mccarrick, mccarrick was earlier accused of abusing young adult, he was recently accused of abusing a child 40 years ago. as far as I know nobody prevented the police from investigating mccarrick.
if the Pope did remove canonical penalties then that is bad, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for the whole story before jumping into conclusion.

gwama:
To be a good Catholic priest, one must be born a eunuch or become a eunuch, otherwise all others are only hypocrites, either they subscribe to prostitutes, or they sleep with children.

according to Jesus this comment is untrue.


For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and
there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by
others--and there are those who choose to live like
eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The
one who can accept this should accept it." matt 19

TheMadame:
Good morning ma,
I watched many of the video's -sickening stuff.
Most victims are probably threatened into accepting pay offs because of ignorance and fear of "touching God's annointed."
In hind sight,who knows why they accepted pay offs.
All I know is that anyone who leaves his child (male or female) in the hands of a catholic priest/nun is asking for trouble.

critique these crimes objectively, child abuse is no solely found among Catholic priest, it is also among Protestant pastors, Jewish rabbi etc, and even worse in schools.

if your solution is to withdraw the kid from any place where there is likelihood of abuse then you may remove them from your families, schools, churches, nannies, etc maybe from all human contact.

ifyalways:
sick world we live in . I pity parents who hands over their children to religious men for ANY reason.

don't forget that your kid is more likely to get abused in school by his teachers than by the so-called religious men.

also remember that 30% abuse against a child was by a blood relative.

Dantedasz:
I wouldn't advise you to leave your kids with any Catholic priest in the modern age no matter your personal past experience.
Just advice.

modern age ke?

these crimes you are just hearing about now were committed decades ago. the Pennsylvania report cover from about 80 years ago till the 1990, the accused in that report are long dead and are all out of ministry, not a single one is still ministering, those who are not dead are on their death bed.

in fact the American Catholic Church has long reformed the way such cases are handled and has one of the best anti abuse policy in the country in fact much better than the public schools where abuse is still 10 times worst.

funny enough the Protestant churches have a similar abuse record yet I don't hear you saying that people should not leave their kids with their pastors, the public school system is still worse in abuse and yet nobody is saying kids shouldn't be left with teachers.


in today America it is said that the Catholic Church is still the safest place for kids

[quote author=Dantedasz post=70811903][/quote]I am not a defender of abuse but it is wrong to stereotype Catholic priests in this manner.

from primary 3 -6 I was very close to my parish priest, my parents had no problem leaving me alone with him, he was caring, kind and the best human being I have ever seen, I still visit him till date for advice, he also spent a lot of time with my sick grand dad whenever we werent home, he never did anything to me, I was always safe with him, I served at mass, went on retreat and joined him in his office hour, I was always safe and have met several such priest in my life.

I would have no problem leaving my kids with a priest, all my life of moving with priests even leaving in the Church house for holidays, I have NEVER come across a pedophile.

TheMadame:
You are the one explaining to the members of the forum that your Catholic priest explaining anal raped as "horsing around" was being sarcastic,therefore I need to address you promptly as well as him.
So in your wisdom because sexual scandals exist in the protestant,other religions,in schools and groups we should continue to hypocritically sheild the rapist/serial sex abuser priests as the Pope has done by going silent,deaf and dumb and not responding to Carlo Vigano who has openly stated that he informed this current Pope of these sexual scandals years ago but the Pope chose to pardon the offender's?
What is more sickening than that?
The church should be protected while the children abused by these sick Catholic priests should be silenced and not receive justice?
Any member of the Catholic church defending these abusers,I have just one question for you:-"Can you in your heart of heart leave your under age kids with any Catholic priest? "
Will such a child be safe with such a priest?

sorry I believe I quoted you mistakenly I wanted to quote dantedasz response to aaronsrod, I was trying to tell dantedasz that Aaronsrod must be using sarcasm, sorry if I came across as unclear.

to clarify, I do NOT support the rape of children nor do I support such cover up, both are despicable which is why I clearly said such people should be prosecuted. I do not support silence of the pope in such serious accusation but I am not the pope, let him answer for himself.

anybody protection rapist is not protecting the Church, he is protecting himself and his career and harming the Church.

TheMadame:
Sarcasm in a case of child abuse?Sarcasm in cases of priests raping children through the anus.
Continue to defend evil because you are a catholic.Children have been sexually abused in that church all over the world but all that concerns Catholics is to protect the name of their church. Why not spare a minute for uncountable children who have been abused? I shudder to think of the numerous scandals swept under the carpet in the catholic church in Africa if Europe and America is so bad.

I am not the person who used sarcasm, you can address him.


I consider child abuse to be a despicable depravity that should always be condemned and the perpetuators brought to justice.

unfortunately it present in the Catholic Church and even Protestant churches in Christianity and other religions, even in schools and groups, it is not only a Catholic problem and we must all be committed to stopping it wherever it is found.

lacum:
I am following it and I think the problem is not only in Europe but all over the world. the Church really need our prayers now, if not handled well it will be like what happened in the days of Martin Luther. I am waiting for Pope Francis to reply that Cardinal Vigano and put him in his rightful place because I think the devil wants to use him to destroy the Church.

Pope Francis has decided not to reply, that seems to be how he responds to crisis, he stonewalls and wait till it blows over, the dubia issue comes to mind.


archbishop vigano probably isn't too far from the truth, there are serious cracks in Church administration, in my archdiocese alone at least 3 bishops have had petitions against them, one was quietly removed, one other petition is ethnically motivated the last is weird but there are hardly taken seriously until they hit the news. several people have come out to say cardinal mccarrick was reported, where did the report go? usually from the papal nucio to the congregation for bishops in Rome... somebody knew those allegations and did nothing about them.

Pope Francis handling of the issue only makes me more worried. this article comes to mind


https://dwightlongenecker.com/four-reasons-why-i-believe-archbishop-vigano/

if you add this
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2018/08/31/pope-francis-and-mccarrick-where-does-the-evidence-lead/

and this, which says card mccarrick was given new lease on life by Francis

https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/globe-trotting-cardinal-theodore-mccarrick-almost-84-and-working-harder-ever


it becomes a interesting pot

lacum:
I am following it and I think the problem is not only in Europe but all over the world. the Church really need our prayers now, if not handled well it will be like what happened in the days of Martin Luther. I am waiting for Pope Francis to reply that Cardinal Vigano and put him in his rightful place because I think the devil wants to use him to destroy the Church.

maybe this may help you

https://dwightlongenecker.com/discouraged-catholics-man-up/

KenModi:
You dont want me to get started on the topic.

The mixture of politics and religion has been one of the many reasons your country has been kept improvished for half a century.

On the other hand, I do agree not all priests are gays or sexual predators but how do u explain or justify these numbers especially know fully well the Catholic Church covered it up for decades? This is just one state in a very large country. Imagine the numbers all over the world

among 12 was a Judas.


in about 80 years there were 300 pedophiles in ministry, in the 6 diocese of Pennsylvania, that is 50 pedophiles per dioceses.

every 10 years there were less than 7 pedophiles, the seminary in the diocese graduated less than 1 pedophile per year.


it is tragic, but in the world and in the Church there will always be defects in humans