₦airaland Forum

if anyone is following the American sex abuse/archbishop vigano allegations vis a vis pope Francis please it is time for Catholics to really start praying for the Church.


please pray especially for your priest, that he may be confirmed in holiness and will be a faithful steward the sacred mysteries, pray for your Bishop that he may administer the church placed under his care with the Justice and charity.

pray for the church that we may all be true witnesses to the gospel.

Acidosis:
God is Trinity, so Mary is the earthly mother of God the Son. Remember that an angel of God appeared to Mary before she conceived, so it is just illogical to assume Mary is the mother of the same God that sent her an angel.

The other components of the Trinity are God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, both of which existed before the creation of man.

That being said, the Bible is so diverse to the extent that any individual or group of individuals can always use the Bible to justify any ideology.

Some believe in the Ministry of Mary
Some in the Ministry of Angels
Some in the Ministry of Jesus Christ
Some in the Ministry of the Holy Spirit
Others believe in some or all the Ministries but for some reasons choose to favour one or some above others; some decided to relegate one or two based on their own understanding of the Bible and, according to them, inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

Whatever it is you believe, the truth would soon be unfolded. Fact however remains that we all cannot be right, God is not a man that He should lie or contradict Himself.

nobody has said that Mary gave birth to God the father and the Holy spirit, the term mother of God means that Mary gave birth to Jesus who is God.


as you have said of Mary "so Mary is the earthly mother of God the Son", God the son is God, Mary gave birth to him when he took flesh on earth.

so we are in agreement

solite3:
in fact Christ is the only one qualified to intercede or mediate.

Mary or any other saints are not qualified to intercede in heaven.

Revelation 5:2-4 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.




Hebrews 4:15-16 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


@bold, there are dead saints according to the verse below

1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1. not a single one of the passages you quoted said the saints can't intercede in heaven, in fact not one of them is relevant to the point.

2. of course there are physically dead people before men, not before God not in the spirit.

Luke 20:38
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living,
for to him all are alive."

solite3:
the Roman Catholic cult is playing her role as the passage way for the antichrist, learn the true origin of the Roman Catholic church.
the Roman cult is using interfaith abomination in preparation for one world religion, that is why the Roman cult is trying to make Islam a harmless religion.

you are the one who seem ignorant, of course the Bible says my people die for lack of knowledge.

the origin of the Catholic church is Christ and the Apostles, she is the church that traces her origin back to the Pentecost...


interfaith dialogue is not one world religion, don't confuse both, dialogue is meant to obey the words of scripture "follow peace with all men". one world religion is only possible if the whole world converts to Christ, that is not possible so instead we work for peace.

solite3:
Mary birthed the man Jesus Christ not God, I just prat your eyes be opened

so there were two Jesuses, the man Jesus and the God Jesus, so Mary gave birth to the man Jesus ONLY.


please when did the God Jesus join the man Jesus?


it is a pity because any sound Christian knows that Jesus was God and man united in one person, so when Mary gave birth, it was God+man that was born.


but since you separate the man Jesus from the God, please tell me when the God Jesus joined the Man Jesus.



you are right in the vicinity of Nestorianism... a really stupid heresy.

bloodofthelamb:
Apostles of Jesus never did devotion to Mary, neither did they encourage the saints in their letters to offer devotion to Mary.

Mary was blessed through the grace of God, no body denies that. Catholics do more than calling her bless. They venerate her. They pray to her to pray for you etc.

you wouldn't know what the apostles didn't do, because there is actually nowhere all their deeds are recorded and you seem ignorant of the actual testimony and beliefs and practices of the early church they established.


but again, that is not the topic of this thread.

bloodofthelamb:
Ubenedictus, Mary said they shall call her blessed and not they shall make devotion/supplication unto me. Mary is was blessed just like believers are blessed.

The same Holy Spirit that overshadowed her is also the same Spirit that is upon us conforming us into the image of Christ Jesus.

good response,



just not the topic, I'll be happy to discuss this when you make a thread about it, until then the topic is Mary mother of God.

solite3:
it is becoming more clear that the Roman Catholic cult will usher in the beast.
Jesus is coming Soon

seriously? so death penalty equals this silliness above?

paxonel:
The biggest confusion that has erupted the church today are human inability to speak in one voice, perhaps out of human differences. Hence, there are diverse of doctrines and tanets yet in the same body of christ.
Today, a catholic christian who chooses to join pentecostalism will be mandated to re-baptised even after he was baptised as a catholic.
The same thing applies to a pentecostal christian who goes to a catholic church to receive the holy communion. He will be mandated to go through the routine cathecism before he can receive the communion.
Now, is there any difference between the catholic baptism and the pentecostal baptism?
Why are Christians who were baptized by both sides not being accepted by each of the sides?
Now, this is not to exert superiority or inferiority of one baptism over the other.
The op is justice asking a sincere question as christ will ask, therefore sincere answers are needed.

Catholics believe in a single baptism,

any one baptized in the trintarian formula (name of the father, son and holy spirit) with water, is baptized.

paxonel:
THIS POPE IS MY MAN!
GOD BLESS THE POPE

you are anti death penalty too?

Shelumiel:
Brother , a Jihadi is happy in prison knowing his desires having been fulfilled.

a jihadi is also happy to die and meet up 70 virgins in Paradise.....those are fanatics

hopefulLandlord:
The Jews weren't Christians though

even till today Christians only form about 2% of Israeli population. The Jews at that time were operating under the mosaic laws infact the accusers of the woman cited the mosaic law when addressing Jesus for that same reason

they said to him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"

Jesus then said anyone who hasn't sinned should cast the first stone, shouldn't this statement apply to death penalty today?

BTW I'm totally against death penalty and that's why I'm discussing this. I'm not a Christian

Amen

tartar9:
One of thae most murderous institutions the world has elver seen now advocating for the abolition of the death penalty.
The doctrines of xtianity keep changing to fit please the times.I guess they would readily sing a new tune when a new trend emerges on the death penalty issue.

this isn't so much of a shift, the Catholic church teaches that the death penalty is a punishment for extreme cases, in fact there is very old theology about the conditions that are necessary for the state to consider overriding human dignity for the sake of the common good... the church has been pretty clear for some time now that those conditions no longer exist today and that the death penalty should be stopped.


this one is pretty old, I remember pope John Paul ii and Benedict xvi repeating the same thing, Francis is simply making it official.

the Vatican has been advocating against the death penalty for a long time now.

HigherEd:
What is the relevance of citing the adulterous woman in this case? Jesus showed mercy to an adulterous woman who was going to be mobbed to death by some self righteous religious fanatics. He never condemned the govt right to sentence to death or pass judgment anywhere in scripture. Infact apostle paul reiterated the right of the govt to "bear the sword".

it is relevant because it shows that laws written in scripture as allowed by God aren't always immutable, the law also say to divorce your wife and that law was overthrow by Jesus so too an eye for an eye etc.

the Bible also allows people to have slaves infact the apostle Paul confirmed this right in the new testament and encouraged slaves to be submissive, we know today that slavery isn't right even though it is found in the holy books, Catholics call it development of doctrine, as the years go by the church comes to understand more deeply the gospel that was once and for all delivered to the saints and as we come to a deeper understanding we form our society to those ideals.

bloodofthelamb:
Be true to yourself. What Catholics are observing now are they the teachings of the apostles? Because they did no devotion to Mary.

Their devotion was to God the Father and Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost. If you find any of their teaching on Mary, please show me. I will like to read.

yes, what Catholics are observing now are the teaching of the apostles and the same practice is found in every ancient Christian church that can trace its linage to the apostles, all the apostolic churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental) all have Marian devotion.


did you manage to read up Luke 1 which tells us that every generation must acclaim the blessedness of Mary, which is exactly what Catholics do.

solite3:
you can't see it cause the god of this world has blinded you.
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

so this is what you say whenever you refuse to make sense and can't substantiate your claim.


again nothing in that passage says Mary didn't give birth to God.

solite3:
the Christianity Jesus establish? what is Christianity to you?
you don't need a mediator to approach the throne of grace. it is unbiblical to say otherwise.
the bible said come boldly to the throne of grace not plead for some saints to help you.
only living saints on earth can intercede for anyone not dead saints.

actually the only reason you have access to the throne of grace is because you come through Jesus the mediator, you need him to approach the throne of grace.



seems you lack comprehension, go back and read my previous reply, I always come to the throne of grace boldly but I also enjoy doing that in the company of other Christians.

sorry there is no such thing as a dead saint, that is unbiblical.

Luke 20:38

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living,
for to him all are alive."


the body of Christ is one, there is no division in that body.

bloodofthelamb:
The sign is there for everybody to see. Though they didn't specifically mention God as a trinity but they portrayed God as a three dimensional in One( Father, Son, Spirit ).

Where did you guys glean your own devotion to Mary from? NB: The church began after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and not before. So also the New Tastament.

the signs are also there for all to see, the apostles didn't write "devotion to Mary" but they clearly showed that she was exceptionally graced and because of that grace all generation will honor her as blessed Luke 1. it is that which we (all ancient Christian churches both Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Armenian Orthodox, Oriental, Copts,) continue to do till date.

orisa37:
.

God's Senate !!!

clearly I don't know what that is.

have a nice day.

MosesAlex:
My dear, you left what was addressed. Which is why Jesus called Mary "Woman" and jumped to another topic. Well I would touch the new topic you brought up images. (I hope you would stick to it).

On images
To understand the our use of images try and consider the Ark of the Covenant vs the Golden Calf, the Ark of the Covenant Vs Dagon (1 Samuel 5:2 )

Joshua 7:6
Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the LORD, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads.

Question: Was Joshua worshiping the Ark?

1King 7:36

He engraved cherubim, lions and palm trees on the surfaces of the supports and on the panels, in every available space, with wreaths all around.
Question: Where these not in God's Temple as put in place by Solomon?

On Bowing 1 Samuel 20:41
After the boy had gone, David got up from the south side of the stone and bowed down before Jonathan three times, with his face to the ground.

Question: Was David worshiping Jonathan?

brother please stop responding to questions about images,
these people will continue shifting from topic to topic instead
of admitting that they got a point wrong.
it is totally dishonest to continue this topic shifting, please
don't encourage them, the topic is Mary as mother of God, if
that discussion isn't fully pursued, don't entertain another.

MosesAlex:
I am simply saying that the ark of the convenant had the image of cherubims on it but the ark was an instrument of God's power.

The Israelites were not worshiping the Ark when they prostrated towards it.

The temple of old had images in them.

My response is towards the lady's comment

brother please stop responding to questions about images, these people will continue shifting from topic to topic instead of admitting that they got a point wrong.


it is totally dishonest to continue this topic shifting, please don't encourage them, the topic is Mary as mother of God, if that discussion isn't fully pursued, don't entertain another.

blueAgent:
I was born into a Catholic family on my paternal side but i broke off from there brainwashing becos i saw the errors and i have the capacity to think for myself not you.

your maternal side nkor?

Shelumiel:
The death sentence was established by God Himself(Leviticus24:17). Think of it this way : if the death penalty were abolished and murderers were given life in imprisonment, wouldn't groups like Bokoharam continue to increase in number since they know that the worst that would happen would be a life sentence on taxpayers money.

stoning the adulterous was also established by God himself, we known how that panned out.



you think boko haram likes prison?

bloodofthelamb:
John, Peter, Paul, Jude etc. This guys wrote letters to the churches.

Catholic claim that Peter was their first Pope. But Peter in his letter never made any devotion, or encouraged those he was writing to, to make any devotion to Mary. Or did he?

funny enough Peter didn't teach the Trinity either, we had to glean through the entire new testament to get that?


you won't hear any of them saying worship the holy spirit either but we all do, guess where we got that from?


that again

blueAgent:
Same false reference, show me Bible verses not worthless books written by men without evil motives.

I didn't show you any books written by men, please don't accuse me of what I haven't done.


Jesus is God John 1:1
some one gave birth to him Luke 2

that person gave birth to God.



the fact that you disagree doesn't make is untrue.

doyinbaby:
I told a friend about some wrong doctrines around Mary.....he got angry......... please how can one get his catholic friends to accept the truth of God's word.....
Why is convincing catholics so difficult ....... this my friend Na charismatic o him sabi bible

or maybe you assumed that his doctrines are wrong and confronted him....


instead of asking him to explain them and there source.

orisa37:
.


A member of The Board of Supreme-Spirit-Deliberators(Thinkers for God).

what is that?

blueAgent:
On what is your Church doctrine based on?

1. scriptures
2 Timothy 3:16-17 New International Version (NIV) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2. apostolic traditions.

2 thess 2:15

New International Version So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

solite3:
Mary was never called mother of God in the bible it was all concocted by the Roman Catholic cult.
Jesus never called Mary mother, he only called those who listen to listens to him his mother and brethren.
Mark 3:31
There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.

Mark 3:32
And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.

Mark 3:33
And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?

Mark 3:34
And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Mark 3:35
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.


with this verses Jesus shewed that he does not place special importance on his mother or brothers .

the term mother of God is wrong.

I can't still find the passage that says the term mother of God is wrong

McCoy662:
baba I don't support this one ooo. some people are so heartless, the density of crimes they commits deserve something more than just death sentence.
if anyone doesn't want his human dignity to be violated, he should be law abiding

do you think there is something that can be committed by man that will completely erase his identity? is there something I will do that the image of God in which I am created will be erased?


no matter the crime, a human being is a human being and possesses that human dignity.

HigherEd:
You might as well suspend the judiciary and eliminate the police force. As though the Isrealites in scripture where not sentencing people to.death! Christianity has no role in answering the question on death penalty as it is a govt thing entirely. And i disagree with francis completely, the death penalty should remain for extreme cases of mass murder.
Lalasticlala

the Israelites in scripture were also stoning the adulterous women... we don't consider that humane or admissible any more. the judiciary may sentence crime, the police may enforce laws but nobody has the right to kill another person whether there are readily available alternatives.



Christianity has a role for setting morals among its adherents and the morality of killing an already contained criminal is a moral question and within the purview of the church.

bloodofthelamb:
There is nothing like propaganda here. Show me were the early church and its leaders in there letters encouraged such doctrine the Catholic church are practising today.

This holy men never mentioned Mary in all their epistle they wrote to the saints of God which, Mary was also part of.

which "early church leaders"?