₦airaland Forum

brocab:
This is only your say so, because speaking in tongues is not really a key way to claim you are saved or not, and plus if someone came to me, and spoke another language it doesn't mean they are gifted with the Holy Spirit, "and if you were Spirit filled born again Christian, we will know you by the fruit you speak, but sadly your knowledge about Mary-and the language you speak off, does not line up with the Word of God!
So Old testament Catholic Church stood first, New testament Catholic Church stands last! Jesus made a new Covenant with His people, those who believe in Me and do the works in Me shall be saved! {John 5:24, John 14:12} whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life! Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing.
What was first from Old teachings of the Catholic Church is now last-they teach praying through "To" Mary and the saint's, will bring them closer to God, this isn't what Jesus meant.
{Matthew 20:16} So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
So it doesn't matter how long your Church in Rome stood, you may be first, now you are last.
{Romans 8:27-28} And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. "And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
This isn't just about the Catholic Church-it's God's purpose where He gathers His people, His Church isn't just a old building that stands in Rome, you, your comrades believe we came out from the Catholic Church first?
Then at least without any questions, asked, take on your responsibilities and agree it's the Churches fault why the Church scattered God's people around the neighbourhoods-take on your responsibilities why the Church didn't feed the People the Word of God in the first place.
{Ezekiel 34: 5-10} They were scattered for lack of a shepherd, and when they were scattered, they became food for all the wild beasts.
My flock went astray on all the mountains and every high hill. They were scattered over the face of all the earth, with no one to search or seek for them.’ Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: “As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became food for every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, nor did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock, therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the Lord!
Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”
Uben since you believe that the Catholic Church is Mother Church, then your Church should gladly take on all the responsibilities, with no questions asked! Why didn't the Catholic Church feed the flock with the Word of God, why did the Catholic Church not send her servants out to help bring God's people back, when it was the Catholic Church that pushed God's people away in the first place!

I think you should be asking your pastors these questions, they are the ones who broke up the Church to form businesses because of gain and fame.

brocab:
All I can say, with the knowledge I have received either by you, or your comrades, and the knowledge I have studied, I know the Catholic Church doesn't like using the Word of God as their study guide!

then you are again misinformed, Catholics tend to practice prima scriptura, every day at mass it is scriptures, even when we pray we pray scriptures, we study scriptures and love it.

And after the disciples had been driven from Jerusalem by persecution from the Romans, the apostles went underground, and the gospel message spread rapidly through the regions lying beyond the limits of Palestine; and many small companies of believers were formed in important centers. Some of the disciples "traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word." Their labors were usually confined to the Hebrew and Greek Jews, large colonies of whom were at this time to be found in nearly all the cities of the world.
[color=#000099]But all in all, the gospel started in Jerusalem, and how they teach in Rome-I am not surprised what they teach in Antioch since it is Rome. We just need to visit the Vatican placed in Rome to know the in and out's of paganism..

there is no paganism in the Vatican, the same way Catholics worship is the same way the early Church worshipped, the early Church was Catholic

UbiPetrus:
That kind thing. When the foundation is faulty, what can the righteous do? A house divided against itself cannot stand. At best, it stands on sinking sand.

exactly! a kingdom against itself

SalC:
So the gospel of " once saved always saved" is now a lie.
We are watching in 3D

Ubenedictus come and see.

wow

thank you for tagging me.


unbelievable, the Protestants are protesting against their own heresies. that is how we got over 30,000 contradictory, confusing denominations

adegeye38:
no teaching of Christ whatsoever is synonymous with Catholic doctrine, Catholicism has no trace to the apostles, cos the message the apostles preached was deeply Pentecostal and, the Catholic/gothic doctrines became established hundreds of years after the death of the apostles, and it was a deviation from the original gopel of Christ.
Peter himself preached pure Pentecostal, he spoke in tongue and was filled with the holy spirit, he spoke being born again and being delivered from sin through Christ, peter preached about holiness and everything Pentecostal and he emphasized on Christ teaching on having a personal relationship with God. and ao much more its all in the bible

then you are ignorant of what Catholics teach, because we too speak in tongues are filled with the holy spirit, we are born again, delivered from sin through Christ. teach Holiness and have an intimate relationship with God.

added to this we are the original Church formed by the apostles we compiled the new testament you are using and have witness to the gospel for 2000 years Pentecostalism began in the 1990 less than 100 years ago, Protestantism began in the 1600 about 500 years ago. both Pentecostal and Protestant churches were formed by men, the Catholic Church was formed by Jesus and his apostles.

brocab:
Uben have you read this, 9 inches shared this site.
http://catholicchampion..qa/2010/10/rationalism-vs-faith-protestantism-vs.html
Pope Francis and Death Penalty
Lets translate the current Catechism into modernistic Francis language everyone can understand, it should have said "the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the inhumane measures of the death penalty."
Today pope Francis has announced his method of spreading confusion across the Church like wildfire. Francis communicates to us something that has never been a part of preaching the Gospel.
He said, "It is not enough to find a new language in which to articulate our perennial faith; it is also urgent, in the light of the new challenges and prospects facing humanity, that the Church be able to express the “new things” of Christ’s Gospel, that, albeit present in the word of God, have not yet come to light. This is the treasury of “things old and new” of which Jesus spoke when he invited his disciples to teach the newness that he had brought, without forsaking the old (cf. Mt 13:52)."
Francis has now invented his own Gospel. He says it is not enough to ensure we are preaching the perennial faith with sufficient language to meet our time, but that now we must express, "new things"! Now we are supposed to be finding things in the Word of God that we have never heard of? Did Jesus speak of this in Matthew 13:52? I think not.
Lets look at the passage. He said unto them: Therefore every scribe instructed in the kingdom of heaven, is like to a man that is a householder, who bringeth forth out of his treasure new things and old.
Jesus here according to Saint Thomas is speaking about the sacred teaching itself which Jesus was communicating to his followers which he also calls scribes. Why was he calling them scribes? Because they would be similar to the scribes of old, they would teach the Gospel instead of the old law.
They can discuss the the kingdom of God and Sacred teaching, wherein things new and old are contained. "Behold I send you prophets, and wise men and scribes." Dan 12:10 They are also called scribes because they are Christ's secretaries.
Jesus taught them in parables so they would see the fulfillment of the Old Law in the New. Thomas says according to Gregory, the old things refer to all those things which are attributed to sin, and the new to those things which are attributed to the grace of Christ and eternal life. (Taken from St Thomas' Commentary on Matthew)
How on earth does this refer to "new things" that we have never heard of over the past 2000 years the Church has been preaching the Gospel? Francis is simply inventing new teaching. As we all know, Divine Revelation closed with the death of the last apostle. We can only delve deeper into the existing, perennial teaching that we have been given at the outset. So yes, it is enough to articulate our perennial faith to the world, because like God it is the same today and forever.
Then Francis then drops one of his "new things" on us. He invents a new teaching out of thin air! Brace yourselves!
I would like now to bring up a subject that ought to find in the Catechism of the Catholic Church a more adequate and coherent treatment in the light of these expressed aims. I am speaking of the death penalty.
This issue cannot be reduced to a mere résumé of traditional teaching without taking into account not only the doctrine as it has developed in the teaching of recent Popes, but also the change in the awareness of the Christian people which rejects an attitude of complacency before a punishment deeply injurious of human dignity.
It must be clearly stated that the death penalty is an inhumane measure that, regardless of how it is carried out, abases human dignity.
It is per se contrary to the Gospel, because it entails the willful suppression of a human life that never ceases to be sacred in the eyes of its Creator and of which – ultimately – only God is the true judge and guarantor.
So the "new thing" is now condemning 2000 years of Christian teaching which teaches that the death penalty is a legitimate form of punishment.
What Francis is really saying is that the Church taught and upheld an act which was contrary to human dignity, contrary to the Gospel, and he is the one who is going to correct it. If it goes against the Gospel, then the Catholic Church has been teaching something contrary to the Gospel for 2000 years! We all know this is an impossibility.
Better yet, he is calling Pope Pius XII and many other popes monsters who were promoting heinous acts against human dignity!
His predecessors were promoting an act as being a legitimate form of punishment that was really contrary to the Gospel!
Is Pope Pius XII so far removed from our advanced society that he did not realize this? If you think so I have ocean front property to sell you in Kansas. Do we see what this kind of thinking leads us? This is modernism at its finest! He is claiming that this is a development. Does he know the definition of development? Development means the teaching is the same, we just understand it more fully. Development is not that we overturn the teaching and then label it a development.
Everyone who came before Francis was wrong, and he is right.
This is the leitmotif of his papal occupation. Francis knows better than all the popes who came before him. Francis knows the "new things" that no one else ever knew!

Almost sounds like the Gnostics no? As for me, the Church teaching is what it is. For now the Catechism teaches, "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty..." Guess what, if the act was contrary to the Gospel, this could never have been said in the Catechism!
Lets translate this into modernistic Francis language everyone can understand, it should have said "the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the inhumane measures of the death penalty." I feel ashamed for anyone who falls for this "new thing." Do you think we are idiots? As you can tell I am a bit miffed at this whole debacle.

Above: Pope Pius XII now according to Francis a monster who promoted inhumane acts against human dignity!

Even in the case of the death penalty the State does not dispose of the individual’s right to life. Rather public authority limits itself to depriving the offender of the good of life in expiation for his guilt, after he, through his crime, deprived himself of his own right to life.
(Pius XII, Address to the First International Congress of Histopathology of the Nervous System, 14 September 1952, XIV, 328)

the death penalty is a punishment of last resort, when there is no other way to stop a criminal. but in Europe and America today there exist more humane ways to stop a criminal than death and in these places the church advocate an end to the death penalty as inhumane. this wasn't invented by Francis both pope Benedict and John Paul said the same. death penalty should not be used when other opt

THE LANGUAGE OF FAITH 170 We do not believe in formulas, but in those realities they express, which faith allows us to touch. "The believer's act [of faith] does not terminate in the propositions, but in the realities [which they express]." 56 All the same, we do approach these realities with the help of formulations of the faith which permit us to express the faith and to hand it on, to celebrate it in community, to assimilate and live on it more and more. 171 The Church, "the pillar and bulwark of the truth", faithfully guards "the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints". She guards the memory of Christ's words; it is she who from generation to generation hands on the apostles' confession of faith.57 As a mother who teaches her children to speak and so to understand and communicate, the Church our Mother teaches us the language of faith in order to introduce us to the understanding and the life of faith. III. ONLY ONE FAITH 172 Through the centuries, in so many languages, cultures, peoples and nations, the Church has constantly confessed this one faith, received from the one Lord, transmitted by one Baptism, and grounded in the conviction that all people have only one God and Father. 58 St. Irenaeus of Lyons, a witness of this faith, declared: 173 "Indeed, the Church, though scattered throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, having received the faith from the apostles and their disciples. . . guards [this preaching and faith] with care, as dwelling in but a single house, and similarly believes as if having but one soul and a single heart, and preaches, teaches and hands on this faith with a unanimous voice, as if possessing only one mouth." 59 174 "For though languages differ throughout the world, the content of the Tradition is one and the same. The Churches established in Germany have no other faith or Tradition, nor do those of the Iberians, nor those of the Celts, nor those of the East, of Egypt, of Libya, nor those established at the center of the world. . ." 60 The Church's message "is true and solid, in which one and the same way of salvation appears throughout the whole world." 61 175 "We guard with care the faith that we have received from the Church, for without ceasing, under the action of God's Spirit, this deposit of great price, as if in an excellent vessel, is constantly being renewed and causes the very vessel that contains it to be renewed." 62 IN BRIEF 176 Faith is a personal adherence of the whole man to God who reveals himself. It involves an assent of the intellect and will to the self-revelation God has made through his deeds and words. 177 "To believe" has thus a twofold reference: to the person, and to the truth: to the truth, by trust in the person who bears witness to it. 178 We must believe in no one but God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. 179 Faith is a supernatural gift from God. In order to believe, man needs the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. 180 "Believing" is a human act, conscious and free, corresponding to the dignity of the human person. 181 "Believing" is an ecclesial act. The Church's faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. "No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother" (St. Cyprian, De unit . 6: PL 4, 519). 182 We believe all "that which is contained in the word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church proposes for belief as divinely revealed" (Paul VI, CPG § 20). 183 Faith is necessary for salvation. The Lord himself affirms: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (Mk 16:16). 184 "Faith is a foretaste of the knowledge that will make us blessed in the life to come" (St. Thomas Aquinas. Comp. theol. 1, 2).

brocab:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
Catholic knowledge.
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION ONE "I BELIEVE" - "WE BELIEVE"
We begin our profession of faith by saying: "I believe" or "We believe". Before expounding the Church's faith, as confessed in the Creed, celebrated in the liturgy and lived in observance of God's commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what "to believe" means. Faith is man's response to God, who reveals himself and gives himself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Thus we shall consider first that search (Chapter One), then the divine Revelation by which God comes to meet man (Chapter Two), and finally the response of faith (Chapter Three).
Bible knowledge
When sharing the gospel, we should be careful what we say and how we say it. Even the word believe can be misleading if it is presented as mere intellectual assent (agreeing that certain facts are true) instead of as trust (relying on those true facts). Judas Iscariot believed certain facts about Jesus, but he never trusted Jesus for salvation.
Salvation is not about believing a list of facts. Salvation is not about asking Jesus to come into your heart. Salvation is not even about asking God to forgive you.
Salvation is about trusting in Jesus as your Savior, receiving the forgiveness He offers by grace through faith. Salvation is about being made new through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).
Jesus said: one must become Born again before he can enter into the kingdom of heaven..
Catholic teaching>To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his "beloved Son", in whom the Father is "well pleased"; God tells us to listen to him.
The Lord himself said to his disciples: "Believe in God, believe also in me." We can believe in Jesus Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh: "No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known. Because he "has seen the Father", Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.
To believe in the Holy Spirit.
One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For "no one can say "Jesus is Lord", except by the Holy Spirit" who "searches everything, even the depths of God.
No one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God." Only God knows God completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is God.
Bible>Judas Iscariot believed certain facts about Jesus, but he never trusted Jesus for salvation.
{John 14:14-16} If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever—…

please where did the catechism say faith is only intellectual assent?


MAN'S RESPONSE TO GOD
142 By his Revelation, "the invisible God, from the fullness
of his love, addresses men as his friends, and moves
among them, in order to invite and receive them into his
own company." 1 The adequate response to this
invitation is faith.
143 By faith , man completely submits his intellect and
his will to God.2 With his whole being man gives his
assent to God the revealer. Sacred Scripture calls this
human response to God, the author of revelation, "the
obedience of faith". 3
ARTICLE 1
I BELIEVE
I. THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH
144 To obey (from the Latin ob-audire , to "hear or listen
to" in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been
heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is
Truth itself. Abraham is the model of such obedience
offered us by Sacred Scripture. The Virgin Mary is its
most perfect embodiment.
Abraham - "father of all who believe"
145 The Letter to the Hebrews, in its great eulogy of the
faith of Israel's ancestors, lays special emphasis on
Abraham's faith: "By faith, Abraham obeyed when he was
called to go out to a place which he was to receive as an
inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was
to go." 4 By faith, he lived as a stranger and pilgrim in the
promised land. 5 By faith, Sarah was given to conceive
the son of the promise. And by faith Abraham offered his
only son in sacrifice.6
146 Abraham thus fulfills the definition of faith in
Hebrews 11:1: "Faith is the assurance of things hoped for,
the conviction of things not seen": 7 "Abraham believed
God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness." 8
Because he was "strong in his faith", Abraham became
the "father of all who believe". 9
147 The Old Testament is rich in witnesses to this faith.
The Letter to the Hebrews proclaims its eulogy of the
exemplary faith of the ancestors who "received divine
approval". 10 Yet "God had foreseen something better for
us": the grace of believing in his Son Jesus, "the pioneer
and perfecter of our faith". 11
Mary - "Blessed is she who believed"
148 The Virgin Mary most perfectly embodies the
obedience of faith. By faith Mary welcomes the tidings
and promise brought by the angel Gabriel, believing that
"with God nothing will be impossible" and so giving her
assent: "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be
[done] to me according to your word." 12 Elizabeth
greeted her: "Blessed is she who believed that there
would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from
the Lord." 13 It is for this faith that all generations have
called Mary blessed. 14
149 Throughout her life and until her last ordeal15 when
Jesus her son died on the cross, Mary's faith never
wavered. She never ceased to believe in the fulfillment of
God's word. And so the Church venerates in Mary the
purest realization of faith.
II. "I KNOW WHOM I HAVE BELIEVED" 16
To believe in God alone
150 Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to
God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent
to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal
adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith
differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and
just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe
absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to
place such faith in a creature. 17
To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God
151 For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated
from believing in the One he sent, his "beloved Son", in
whom the Father is "well pleased"; God tells us to listen
to him. 18 The Lord himself said to his disciples: "Believe
in God, believe also in me." 19 We can believe in Jesus
Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh:
"No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the
bosom of the Father, he has made him known." 20
Because he "has seen the Father", Jesus Christ is the
only one who knows him and can reveal him. 21
To believe in the Holy Spirit
152 One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing
in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who
Jesus is. For "no one can say "Jesus is Lord", except by
the Holy Spirit", 22 who "searches everything, even the
depths of God. . No one comprehends the thoughts of
God, except the Spirit of God."23 Only God knows God
completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is
God.
The Church never ceases to proclaim her faith in one only
God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
III. THE CHARACTERISTICS OF FAITH
Faith is a grace
153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this
revelation did not come "from flesh and blood", but from
"my Father who is in heaven". 24 Faith is a gift of God, a
supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be
exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and
assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy
Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who
opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to
accept and believe the truth.'" 25
Faith is a human act
154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior
helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that
believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God
and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary
neither to human freedom nor to human reason. Even in
human relations it is not contrary to our dignity to believe
what other persons tell us about themselves and their
intentions, or to trust their promises (for example, when
a man and a woman marry) to share a communion of life
with one another. If this is so, still less is it contrary to
our dignity to "yield by faith the full submission of. . .
intellect and will to God who reveals", 26 and to share in
an interior communion with him.
155 In faith, the human intellect and will cooperate with
divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect
assenting to the divine truth by command of the will
moved by God through grace." 27
Faith and understanding
156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that
revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light
of our natural reason: we believe "because of the
authority of God himself who reveals them, who can
neither deceive nor be deceived". 28 So "that the
submission of our faith might nevertheless be in
accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs
of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of
the Holy Spirit." 29 Thus the miracles of Christ and the
saints, prophecies, the Church's growth and holiness,
and her fruitfulness and stability "are the most certain
signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of
all"; they are "motives of credibility" ( motiva credibilitatis),
which show that the assent of faith is "by no means a
blind impulse of the mind".30
157 Faith is certain. It is more certain than all human
knowledge because it is founded on the very word of
God who cannot lie. To be sure, revealed truths can
seem obscure to human reason and experience, but "the
certainty that the divine light gives is greater than that
which the light of natural reason gives." 31 "Ten thousand
difficulties do not make one doubt." 32
158 "Faith seeks understanding ": 33 it is intrinsic to faith
that a believer desires to know better the One in whom
he has put his faith, and to understand better what He
has revealed; a more penetrating knowledge will in turn
call forth a greater faith, increasingly set afire by love.
The grace of faith opens "the eyes of your hearts" 34 to a
lively understanding of the contents of Revelation: that
is, of the totality of God's plan and the mysteries of
faith, of their connection with each other and with Christ,
the center of the revealed mystery. "The same Holy Spirit
constantly perfects faith by his gifts, so that Revelation
may be more and more profoundly understood." 35 In the
words of St. Augustine, "I believe, in order to
understand; and I understand, the better to believe." 36
159 Faith and science : "Though faith is above reason,
there can never be any real discrepancy between faith
and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries
and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on
the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth
ever contradict truth." 37 "Consequently, methodical
research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is
carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not
override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith,
because the things of the world and the things of faith
derive from the same God. The humble and persevering
investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it
were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is
God, the conserver of all things, who made them what
they are." 38
The freedom of faith
160 To be human, "man's response to God by faith must
be free, and. . . therefore nobody is to be forced to
embrace the faith against his will. The act of faith is of
its very nature a free act." 39 "God calls men to serve him
in spirit and in truth. Consequently they are bound to
him in conscience, but not coerced. . . This fact received
its fullest manifestation in Christ Jesus." 40 Indeed, Christ
invited people to faith and conversion, but never coerced
them. "For he bore witness to the truth but refused to
use force to impose it on those who spoke against it. His
kingdom. . . grows by the love with which Christ, lifted
up on the cross, draws men to himself." 41
The necessity of faith
161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent
him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that
salvation.42 "Since "without faith it is impossible to
please [God]" and to attain to the fellowship of his sons,
therefore without faith no one has ever attained
justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he
who endures to the end.'" 43
Perseverance in faith
162 Faith is an entirely free gift that God makes to man.
We can lose this priceless gift, as St. Paul indicated to
St. Timothy: "Wage the good warfare, holding faith and a
good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain
persons have made shipwreck of their faith." 44 To live,
grow and persevere in the faith until the end we must
nourish it with the word of God; we must beg the Lord to
increase our faith; 45 it must be "working through
charity," abounding in hope, and rooted in the faith of
the Church. 46
Faith - the beginning of eternal life
163 Faith makes us taste in advance the light of the
beatific vision, the goal of our journey here below. Then
we shall see God "face to face", "as he is".47 So faith is
already the beginning of eternal life:
When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now,
as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we
already possessed the wonderful things which our faith
assures us we shall one day enjoy. 48
164 Now, however, "we walk by faith, not by sight";49 we
perceive God as "in a mirror, dimly" and only "in part". 50
Even though enlightened by him in whom it believes,
faith is often lived in darkness and can be put to the
test. The world we live in often seems very far from the
one promised us by faith. Our experiences of evil and
suffering, injustice and death, seem to contradict the
Good News; they can shake our faith and become a
temptation against it.
165 It is then we must turn to the witnesses of faith : to
Abraham, who "in hope. . . believed against hope"; 51 to
the Virgin Mary, who, in "her pilgrimage of faith", walked
into the "night of faith"52 in sharing the darkness of her
son's suffering and death; and to so many others:
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud
of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin
which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance
the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus the
pioneer and perfecter of our faith."

asalimpo:
I wish you could be honest with the truth.
But you would likely be biased.
Wycliffe was burned at stake for interpreting the bible.
The bible was in Latin and locked up in seminaries and only priests could read it-
Wycliffe played with his life converting the bible to english for the commoner.
He was burned at stake.
Hus, who worked with him was burned at stake too.
Hus prophesied that in a 100 years a man would arise who would spread the truth.

the inquisitions that saw many who were not catholic and believed in the virgin mary burned and tortured to death.
The one-truth-church (catholicism) was all out to destroy all who didnt believe in it!!

This may be embarrassing to you - but you either deal with the truth or deny it.
This facts are so well documented so well known. It's all out there,except you want to close your eyes to it.

my dear you are again misinformed.

Wycliffe died a peaceful death, he was a Catholic priest in England, he died while celebrating mass, he was struck by stroke. he was also a heretic who believed that the King should be given power and authority over the entire Church as the Anglican today.

while he was alive, his doctrine was been condemned and was finally condemned after his death. he was not killed for translating the Bible, he died a natural death and he was later condemned for his heresy.

actually the Bible was never locked up, anyone who could purchase it could have it, and anyone who was educated in Europe then could read Latin since Latin was the language of education, Wycliffe was not the first to translate the Bible into English, they were translation before him and the Church didn't condemn such so too Hus

maybe you should read up.






https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-Catholic-Church-oppose-Bible-translation-to-popular-languages

brocab:
The Church traces its origins to the Christian community founded in Antioch by people of the period known by a variety of names, including "Followers of the Way," and later recognized by the Apostles in Jerusalem and sent Barnabas to organize the new church (see Acts 11:19-25) (see Early centers of Christianity) was one of its leading members. It later became the Patriarchate of Antioch as one of the five major patriarchates – that is the Pentarchy – of the state church of the Roman Empire.
According to Acts 11:19-26, the Christian community at Antioch began when Christians who were scattered from Jerusalem because of persecution fled to Antioch. They were joined by Christians from Cyprus and Cyrene who migrated to Antioch. It was in Antioch that the followers of Jesus were first referred to as Christians.
A main point of interest, however, is connected with the progress of Christianity among the non-Jewish believers. Tradition holds that the first Gentile church was founded in Antioch, {Acts 11:20-21}where it is recorded that the disciples of Jesus Christ were first called Christians {Acts 11:19-26} It was from Antioch that St. Paul started on his missionary journeys.[1]
In the dispersion of the original Church at Jerusalem, during the troubles ensuing on the bold action of Stephen, certain Cypriote and Cyrenaic Jews, who had been brought up in Greek communities and who had different perspectives on the world than the Palestinian Jews [citation needed], came to Antioch. There they made the "innovation" of addressing not merely Jews but also Greeks (see Godfearers for the historical background). We may understand here (1) that the words used imply successful preaching and the admission of Greeks to the Christian congregation, and (2) that such an innovation took place by slow degrees, and began in the synagogue, where Greek proselytes heard the word.
[2] Antioch is intimately connected with the early history of the gospel. It was the great central point from where missionaries to the Gentiles were sent (presumably following the Great Commission).
It was the birthplace of the famous Christian father Chrysostom, who died A.D. 407.
[3] Nicolas the deacon of the Seven Deacons was a proselyte of Antioch.
The Christians dispersed by Stephen's martyrdom preached at Antioch to idolatrous Greeks, not "Grecians" or Greek-speaking Jews, according to the Alexandrine manuscript {Acts 11:20-26} whence a church having been formed under Barnabas and Paul's care. From Antioch their charity was sent by the hands of Barnabas and Saul to the brethren at Jerusalem suffering in the famine.
Paul began his ministry systematically here. At Antioch Judaizers from Jerusalem disturbed the church {Acts 15:1} Here Paul rebuked Peter for dissimulation (Gal 2:11-12, the Incident at Antioch).
From Antioch Paul started on his first missionary journey {Acts 13:1-3} and returned to it {Acts 14:26} He began, after the Jerusalem decree, addressed to the Gentile converts at Antioch, and ended, his second missionary journey there {Acts 15:36,18:22-23} His third journey also began there. Ignatius was subsequently bishop there for forty years, down to his martyrdom A. D. 107.[5]
The seat of the patriarchate was formerly Antioch, in what is now Turkey. However, in the 15th century, it was moved to Syria in response to the Ottoman invasion.
Some Grecian "ancient synagogal" priestly rites and hymns have survived partially to the present, notably in the distinct church services of the Melkite and Greek Orthodox communities of the Hatay Province of Southern Turkey, Syria, Lebanon and Northern Israel. Members of these communities still call themselves Rûm which literally means "Eastern Roman" or Byzantine in Turkish, Persian and Arabic. The term "Rum" is used in preference to "Ionani" which means Greek or "Ionian"
And later the Catholic Church made claims Christianity started with the Catholic's in Rome....

so you don't know the Church of Antioch was part of the Catholic Church and a part of the Church later fell into schism in 1054-1400, the melkites of the Church of Antioch are still part of the Catholic Church even till today. they are melkite Catholics.

Christianity began in Jerusalem not Rome, they were first called Christian in Antioch and Rome became the preeminent see since it is the Church of the apostle Peter and Paul. the patriarch of Antioch always had Communion with the bishops of Rome even till today the melkites are still in communion with Rome.


lastly, have you ever attended the "service" of the Antiochene Church? they are 96% similar to Catholic Church in both worship and doctrine. and even there bishops will tell you that before they entered schism, the Catholic pope had the highest honor among the bishops and they were all in Communion with Rome.

Rich4god:
Sudden engine failure won't bring down a plane. In a country like US where there numerous airports/airfields scattered around the country, a plane with "all engine" failure will successfully land. It's when an aerodynamic part is broken, jammed or not responding, that's when there is serious call for alarm.

These days, good pilots don't fear engine failure when flying over a city.


At 40k ft, a Boeing 777 can glide from Port Harcourt to Enugu before it hits the ground.(under normal circumstances) Lighter planes can cover more distance.

wow,

are you serious?

sexdoll:
you're right.

the similarities between catholicism and islam is just too obvious to be ignored.

in fact, i think i read somewhere that it was the catholic church that actually created islam.

that is a conspiracy theory

asalimpo:
This is a flat lie.
If that was so Luther would never has posted his thesis at wittenburg and start a revolution.
The Catholic pollution of christianity is very well documented. So much paganism is in it.
Take the rosary and bids - no NT precedent for that. Utter hogwash. Man's traditions.

Praying through mary etc - simple idolatory.

Luther showed that you are justified by faith. The just shall live by faith- a bible verse.
Prior to that , it wasnt so.
Protestantism is mired in strife and division because men will always be unique.
and also because the devil is the author of confusion- he wants to taint the truth.
Why arent they 50 000 muslim sects? Because islam isnt the truth?
CAtholicism was never the one true church.
There is no unified one truth church on earth.
The church is just the body of believers- and Jesus is the Head.
As a matter of fact the bible has no denomination- protestant,catholic etc are not in it.

that is the truth, the Church teaches justification by grace Luther heresy was called justification by faith ALONE, this is a heresy and was rightly condemned, you can browse it.


the Protestant pollution of Christianity is even more glaring, from one Church they broke into 40,000 contradictory sects, God forbid, my God is not a God of confusion

asalimpo:
That's nothing but a flat lie.
The bible only mentions the incident in antioch. and says when peter came to Antioch- that's all.
It doesnt say he came on an apostolic visit (the church was still very young).
He could have come on a meeting, to encourage the brethren etc - we have guest ministers who are renowned today visit other countries. Peter was a disciple who had seen Jesus, He was a very prominent apostle. It would be a blessing to have him in the church at rome to encourage the brethren.

lol

so what do you think an apostolic visit is? is it not a visit by an apostle to encourage the brethren and bless them.

funny u.

Two The Holy spirit was directing the apostles, He sent paul to rome, paul addressed the romans,started churches there. Paul was the apostle to the romans.
The so called historical case is a fabrication by the catholic church to claim that Peter had the keys of Heaven and gave it to the pope!! Total bull.
How else would they build such a lie if not to pick a verse out of context.
God is not a God of confusion or a dumb foolish God! If Paul was in rome, He wouldnt send Peter there,
for what? Two apostles in the same spot, when one could do the work?
Why the duplication?
The whole wide world lay unevangelized and He is wasting twin resources in the same place.
Think!

this is just assumptions, James was in jerusalem and God still allowed Peter and John to be there for some time.

Paul didn't plant the Church in Rome, in fact when he wrote the book of romans there was already a Church in Rome.

so two apostles can be in one place, and the historical case is pretty clear, Peter was in Rome and died there so too Paul.

the problem with bad education is that people feel they can use sweet sounding words to intimidate others in submission.
a hellenist is a person living in
Hellenistic times who was Greek in language,
outlook, and way of life but was not Greek in
ancestry, so an African like myself can't be a Hellenist I don't speak Greek, nor is my culture Greek.

and if you were scripturally sound you would realise that there is nothing that prevents a Hellenist from been a good Christian, in fact if you read Act 6 you will see that the Hellenist form a good chunk of the early Church and it was to settle their issues that the Church commissioned deacons.

Anas09:
The problem with you Hellenistic Catholics is that, you believe people are born Christians, sorry, we grow up to consciously choose or reject Christ. Christianity comes with Transformation and the renewing of the mind. How does a baby in the womb knows what transformation and mind renewal means?

Catholics don't believe that people are born Christian, that is a lie and you are bearing false witness against Catholics....

what the Bible and the Church teaches is that the decision of the parents have covenantal implications for the children so that according to 1 cor 7:14 the children are consecrated to God if a parent is Christian and according to acts the decision of the head of family is enough for the baptism of the household. Christianity is not individualistic it is communal.

See, Hellenistic Catholics feels comfortable in sin as though it's normal. That's why i priest will open his arms and embrace a masquerade. Will you blame him? No. For, as water answereth to the face, so the deep calleth to the deep.

Birds of the same 'father',flocks together

good Catholics don't feel comfortable in sin and a priest is always happy to embrace a sinner no matter the sin, we ourselves have received forgiveness we will always go close to the sinner so our life of love will be a witness to him.


let the Pharisees start speaking, "see how can he be a Christian he embraces masquerade and blesses them they have the same father" just as they said of Christ "he is friends with sinners". what else is new.

JMAN05:
Jesus never blessed or blessed a worshiper of another god. There is no share between light and darkness. This are active false worshipers. Jesus dined with sinners, but these were sinners ready to amend there ways. His goal was to tell them to repent and go and sin no more. But these priest is not reported to have told them to repent and be determined not to worship idols. He not only embraced, but he blessed them. Much like a co-worker, not a message of repentance. Tomorrow he will preach against false worship. I dont know another word than hypocrisy for this act.

Jesus didn't come for the righteous like yourself and your fellows who think their right belief gives them the front row to self righteousness, hypocrisy and discrimination.

he came for the sinners, in fact most of them were not ready to amend their ways until they met Jesus and his compassion and love convinced them, I am proud of those bishops who could see that those people in mask were men for whom Jesus died and was courageous enough to show them love.


were you there? did you witness the incident so as to come to this premature conclusion that Christ was not preached, this is presumption and premature judgement, you saw masquerade been embraced and you immediately rushed to judge the bishops for showing love to people? I guess your Church teaches pharisaic Puritanism.

Jesus didn't come for the righteous it was exactly for those in darkness that he came and shame to any Christian who will refuse to show love to such because of pharisaic hypocrisy.

live4dgospel:
Since you believe that salvation cannot be found outside Christianity, it is just the conclusion of the matter. But to you it is a religion but for us it's faith in the Word of God. Satan introduced religions so as to give men this option "They are all religions so choose the one you will follow", this is a trick of the Devil you still remain ignorant of.

faith in the word of God is still defined as religion.


Christianity is not like others that is correct, but it is still a religion

JMAN05:
Claiming to serve a heavenly God, whose teaching is against false gods, and later embracing and blessing the agents of this false god is an example of hypocrisy if you ask me.

this is called hypocrisy, it was your type who condemned Jesus for eating with sinners,

you don't pursue human beings no matter how evil you think they are, you embrace them and show them love, that is the way to lead people to Christ no Puritanism

Anas09:
And yet unbelievers are turning to Christ in their droves in our churches. this week alone my branch church has recorded more than 5 hundred New converts who will be in church tomorrow. I and my team spend all of today calling them to remind them of tomorrow's service.

You'd need to visit any Winner's Chapel anywhere close to you and watch out for how many people who will come out to be welcomed as New converts tomorrow.

No be to stay one places the make mouth.

and I can assure you that 99% of those people were already Christian in a different denomination. you guys don't convert you do sheep stealing.


try your hypothetical righteousness with non Christians and see how fruitful it is

JMAN05:
They are all serving d same god.

because only saints from your Church should be blessed abi? overrighteous hypocrisy.

funny enough the Catholic Church released the English Rheims versions of the Bible even before the king James version.

asalimpo:
You are on point to an extent but error begins when a doctrine is built of a few verses or when they are taken out of context.
The bible therefore enjoins that the christian must STUDY and that verses must be balanced with other verses (i.e in the mouth of two or three witnesses ).
Common sense and real life experience also factor in-but only in so far as they are scriptural.
First there is a subtle twist in that scripture to justify the man made intermediary.
The verse says, is any one sick call for the elders of the church ...
then it goes on to say confess your sins one to another (this isnt the elders!)
the "another" can be another christian. it could be the elders also. But it is not restricted to them NEITHER does that verse allude to the elders in anyway.

not correct.

the verse on confession begins with the word therefore which make the confession passage linked to the previous sentence about the presbyter... unless you don't understand the meaning of the word "therefore".


And if you don't know in Christianity there are people God put there in the Church to help us on our journey

there are preachers who call people to faith, the Bible says how can they believe unless a preacher is sent,

even after you believe someone must baptise you, you can't baptise yourself, James says if you are sick call an elder...

all these people are to help on the journey they are not obstacles... and if your Church hasn't taught you such elementary things I just wonder what you are taught.

MuttleyLaff:
You believe so, time will tell, if I've truly created a strawman.

Please list all, where God has taught man not to practice "homosexuality"
Also contextually give details of why, where, when and how these supposedly teaching came about
In addition, explain how and when did the word "homosexuality" first appeared in print and Bible?
From what word(s) in the original text was "homosexuality" translated from?

Again , time will tell, if I truly was attacking a strawman.
Cards face up, on the table, do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

Everyone has the power to change to the truth(s) God,
not only to, that, God has revealed but also to, that, Jesus Christ has certainly demonstrated

Tradition of men change all the time whenever they are not only judged unuseful but realised to be unhelpful, to say the least.

An instance or example that illustrates what is being discussed here, is in 2013, on the day before Good Friday when Jorge Mario Bergoglio changed a tradition of men, to become the first in the office he holds, to wash women feet.

I see others already provided the important passages, homosexuality is first condemned in the law and then Paul in the new testament tells us, that it is God abandoning man to his sinful disposition. all through the Bible it is recognized as sexual immorality.


of course that tradition was deemed unhelpful and so was changed by the pope, the Catholic Church is usually quick to differentiate between Church tradition and divine revelation.

morality isn't under Church tradition

asalimpo:
If anyone DOES SIN, he can go directly to Jesus and RECEIVE FORGIVENESS.
Instantly.
[b]Nobody can withhold your sins from being forgiven.[/g]
And you can do so immediately without any intermediary.

how? by coming directly to God.
[b]

you see how you contradict scriptures?

the Bible says Jesus gave his Church the power to forgive sin and retain it but you say it is a lie that the apostles couldn't retain sins, who should I believe you or Jesus?


sorry, no sorry I believe Jesus to hell with your opinion.

asalimpo:
The bible says clearly that we are to go to all the world and preach the gospel.
But it also says that Jesus is the head of the church.
He is the one building his church.
So he gave some gifts - and directs his people.
For example, we see God directing Peter to go to Cornelius house.

The fable of peter being in rome is an invention of the catholic church to purport their doctrines.
One other lie told is that peter was the first pope- first the pope is unbiblcal.
Next, they support that by saying peter Gave the pope the "keys of heaven" - another blatant lie.
This lies cant stand except the claim or support with a fable. Which will be that "Peter came to rome".
This isnt so.
The bible clearly says that Paul was the apostle to the gentiles.
Paul also clearly said he wasnt building on another man's foundations!
He wasnt building on Peter's foundations.
see Romans 1 vs 7.

Peter did travel out of Jerusalem where the early church was started and head quartered but not apostolic work.(Gal 2 v 11-13)
. The apostolic work was directed by the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 13 v 2)
Acts 16 v 6 - Here the Holy spirit forbade paul speaking in Asia - It wasnt as paul or any apostle willed.
This were the founding apostles of the church!! The new testament was still being written.
The Holy spirit was giving directions. Saying Peter came to rome is tantamount to saying the Holy spirit directed him to go there (flat lie).

what do you think Peter was doing in Antioch? going holidays? that my dear should tell you that he had instructions to leave Israel. Paul was forbidden from teaching in Asia but the Bible never says that Peter was forbidden from teaching away from Israel.

in fact he left Israel and was in Antioch, even Paul met him there.

that isn't a lie, that is the truth!

the historical case is clear, even the Church fathers who compiled the Bible all agree that peter preached and died in Rome after Antioch.

this is a clear historical case and I can quote the early Christian, you just disagree without proof or because your pastor says so.

free to disagree with my understanding of morality

MuttleyLaff:
I like your choice of words.
In reality, it is nothing other than a Bud opinion

Morality is determined from a God's perspective
Your course of action is resolved on not missing the God mark

As in, free to disagree to what

It is useless for you to worship me, when you teach rules made up by humans."
- Matthew 15:9

It is no use for them to worship me, because they teach human rules as though they were my laws!
- Matthew 15:9

⁷It is no use for them to worship me,
because they teach human rules
as though they were my laws!’
⁸“You put aside God's command and obey human teachings.”
- Mark 7:7-8

You believe so, time will tell, if I've truly created a strawman.

Please list all, where God has taught man not to practice "homosexuality"
Also contextually give details of why, where, when and how these supposedly teaching came about
In addition, explain how and when did the word "homosexuality" first appeared in print and Bible?
From what word(s) in the original text was "homosexuality" translated from?

Again , time will tell, if I truly was attacking a strawman.
Cards face up, on the table, do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

Everyone has the power to change to the truth(s) God,
not only to, that, God has revealed but also to, that, Jesus Christ has certainly demonstrated

Tradition of men change all the time whenever they are not only judged unuseful but realised to be unhelpful, to say the least.

An instance or example that illustrates what is being discussed here, is in 2013, on the day before Good Friday when Jorge Mario Bergoglio changed a tradition of men, to become the first in the office he holds, to wash women feet.

9inches:
Big difference. They don't mean the same thing.


1. A homosexual act is an act intended to arouse or stimulate a sexual response regarding a person of the same sex.
2. I condemn it because such act is always a violation of divine and natural law.
3. The definition i gave in (1) is enough, it doesn't need much detail. However, let me use this opportunity to explain this: Homosexual desires are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.
4. I assist anyone depending on what they seek, as long as it does not violate my convictions.

You essentially asked for my opinion, didn't you? A few scrolls would've reminded you of that. Having said that, my opinions are based on truth, absolute truth.

It evolves but within certain confines. The manner of propagation may evolve but the core message will always remain the same.

Gbam! The Church is for everybody (sinners) to obtain salvation. No man should be left out. That does not mean the Church accepts or approves of sin.

I have to say amen to this

asalimpo:
Then Martin luther, discovered that justification is by grace and blew away the catholic game by formulating his thesis and posting it on the church door at Wittenberg.
The atrocities of the catholic church are many and many of their practices are purely pagan.
Catholicism has pagan roots of course.
See,the idea is not to hold on in blind biase to the false but to let the bitter truth cleanse you by acting on it.
Would such a scheming organization ever want to the unadulterated word to reach the masses!
They'll break free from its grasp once they know that they can go directly to God!
That's why Luther was so hated!
He set the people free from centuries of lies and indoctrination.
He affected the flow of revenue of the catholic church - indulgence sales etc.
He tempered the power of the Catholic monarches- they ruled over nations- appointed kings, etc.
Man they were powerful!! But God let the truth out!! Truth sets free.

actually the Catholic Church was already teaching that justification is by grace 1500 years before Luther... up till today the Catholic Church teach that justification is by grace.

Martin Luther heresy was called faith alone which means that the only thing you need for salvation is faith. Luther said if you commit adultery 1000 times every day it won't affect your salvation so far you have faith, he told is disciples to sin and sin strongly, his teaching later metamorphose into once saved always saved... that is pure heresy and the Catholic Church rejected it.

but just as the Bible says false teachers will arise on the last days and people flock to them, that is how Luther arose with his heresy to cause division in the Church, today we have 40,000 Protestant denominations who can't agree in doctrine... that is the fruit of Protestantism- division

asalimpo:
So many false misleading traditions to keep people under the thumb of religion and hence the control of "Mother church"
. Millions were kept in illiteracy and ignorance and the reading of the bible was only by the priests!
See where the idea of man-intermediary between man and God,the priest, came from.
Reading the bible could get you killed. But that wasnt even possible because the bible was locked away in seminaries.
Then Martin luther, discovered that justification is by grace and blew away the catholic game by formulating his thesis and posting it on the church door at Wittenberg.
The atrocities of the catholic church are many and many of their practices are purely pagan.
Catholicism has pagan roots of course.
See,the idea is not to hold on in blind biase to the false but to let the bitter truth cleanse you by acting on it.
Would such a scheming organization ever want to the unadulterated word to reach the masses!
They'll break free from its grasp once they know that they can go directly to God!
That's why Luther was so hated!
He set the people free from centuries of lies and indoctrination.
He affected the flow of revenue of the catholic church - indulgence sales etc.
He tempered the power of the Catholic monarches- they ruled over nations- appointed kings, etc.
Man they were powerful!! But God let the truth out!! Truth sets free.

the Catholic Church did Not keep people in illiteracy, you are misinformed.

the vandal attacked the west and burnt as many books as they could, it was the Church that preserved literacy in all of Europe. the universities of Europe were built by the Catholic Church, even the contemporary education system is from the Church, we literally educated all of Europe

anybody who could afford it could get a Bible, printing press had not been invented which means every Bible was hand copied by Catholic monks, reading the Bible was never a crime unless you were reading adulterated bibles.

asalimpo:
I'm not spreading anti catholic phobia.
You are catholic, but the atrocities of the catholic church is well documentd and open.
The selling of indulgences to save souls in purgatory!- was once super lucrative business.
The licentiousness of the popes!!
Talk of lewdness. The catholic church is one mega-corp.
Catholicism is the ORGANIZED IN organized religion!

The burning of heretics at stake even up to the 15th century!!
These facts are ugly for well-meaning catholics but they are there.
The first bible translators bones were dug up and burned.

So many false misleading traditions to keep people under the thumb of religion and hence the control of "Mother church"
. Millions were kept in illiteracy and ignorance and the reading of the bible was only by the priests!
See where the idea of man-intermediary between man and God,the priest, came from.
Reading the bible could get you killed. But that wasnt even possible because the bible was locked away in seminaries.
Then Martin luther, discovered that justification is by grace and blew away the catholic game by formulating his thesis and posting it on the church door at Wittenberg.
The atrocities of the catholic church are many and many of their practices are purely pagan.
Catholicism has pagan roots of course.
See,the idea is not to hold on in blind biase to the false but to let the bitter truth cleanse you by acting on it.
Would such a scheming organization ever want to the unadulterated word to reach the masses!
They'll break free from its grasp once they know that they can go directly to God!
That's why Luther was so hated!
He set the people free from centuries of lies and indoctrination.
He affected the flow of revenue of the catholic church - indulgence sales etc.
He tempered the power of the Catholic monarches- they ruled over nations- appointed kings, etc.
Man they were powerful!! But God let the truth out!! Truth sets free.

this is catholicophobia.
the Catholic Church Never sold indulgence, some bishops in Germany tried to make business with it but they were soon caught and the practice was condemned by the council of Trent

some Popes were great sinners, even among the apostles there was a Judas, that some Popes sinned doesn't make Catholicism false.

been organized is not a sin, in fact Jesus organized his Church by giving her apostles, they too ordained deacon, presbyter and bishops... there is order in the Church, been organized is actually biblical.

actually the burning of unrepentant heretics was done by the state not the Church, clerics were forbidden from passing death sentence. the Justice system in Europe was generally harsh. a man can be killed for hunting in the wrong forest.

the only translators who were dug up were those who were judged to have illegally mistranslated the Bible, those who translated legally were OK.

asalimpo:
the king james is the most literal TRANSLATION NOT INTERPRETATION of the scriptures. It's so literal that you can rest on it. It does have some errors though but it is reliable, hence, very dependable.
It's like german engineering- some people can swear by german engineering.
Heard some1 talk of the freezer the grand father bought some 60+ years ago, still working!!! Now that's reliable.
When you compare KJV with the greek from which new testament scriptures are derived you see close matching.
Matter of fact, on this debate thing, none of know what we are even saying!!
Do we really?
Were you there when Jesus was crucified?
Were you there when He walked the earth?
Have you seen the original manuscripts on which you bible was translated from?
It's easy for all of to be decieved because we accept whatever we see and google online.
So in a sense we are all susceptible.
We have to walk by faith in all these things.
So we all agree that what we read is the truth.
In a way, we are all deceivable- but must at some point trust that we are acting on the truth.

However, a conspiracy with information that has gone public cannot be carriedout except at great cost-
that's why the King James installed gaurds to put to death any one that even tried to corrupt the kjv- the catholics tried to get to it - but thank God for King James.

madam please stop spreading Catholicophobia, who told you that Catholics were trying to corrupt the KJV? even the KJV sometimes uses the vulgate rendering in translation. na wah.


take it easy

asalimpo:
The RSV,NIV,ASV
are derived from the catholic corrupted vulgate which heavily altered the original texts.
The catholic church has massive incentive to suppress the word- they had the money,
the organization and the intent. They spear headed the inquisition.
For centuries they kept millions of people under religious bondage by outright lies and
deciet.

They are just too many greek manuscripts for any single entity to corrupt. Over 5000+.
Who had the resources or the organizational know how to execute such a forgery?
That's like corrupting a statement made on the internet today!! CAn you? Honestly can you?
Once something has gone online - it's gone and archived forever? The infomation will spread.
That's how they were able to have so mny greek manuscripts. Faithful christians spread the word.
The truth cannot be hidden.

calm down, oldest manuscript of that passage is the vaticanus from the 4th century and it carries an umlaut which mean the text has a textual variant.