₦airaland Forum

asalimpo:
On peter, the bible says - Paul was the apostle to the gentiles.
God never sent peter to rome as an apostle.
That's one lie the catholic church needs to build its foundation.
- The rosary is not biblical. the Holy spirit doesnt command its use. The new testament doesnt.
Therefore it's out.
the bible says little foxes spoil the vine. Little, seemingly harmless things (doctrines not of God),
corrupt and pervert the mind.
Recalling of bible passages and request of other christians to add me - listen to yourself think!
Do you need a bid to do that?
A little leaven (of lies) corrupts!
Dont be decieved.
Throw away your rosary and stop praying to dead so-called saints.
Go to God directly not thru any human agency.
Bids and statues are graven images.
God will give you the holy spirit and he will bring scripture to your rememberance - Jesus promised this.
That's the work of the Comforter. read up about Him.
They are people who know so much bible verses in memory, do they use bids?
How about people with prodigious memory in other fields like conductors,they can deal with full buses of passengers and not forget who they owe change,do they use bids?
Think!! Your memory is capable of storing so much information you just need to exercise it.

do you think apostle to the Jews means he will always remain in Israel? well that isn't correct. because the Bible tells us that it was this apostle who was the first to bring the gentile into the Church.


in fact Paul tell us in the book of Galatians that he actually saw the apostle Peter in Antioch, which means it was pretty OK for him to leave Israel and evangelise else where.

in fact the early Christian do tell was that Peter did stay in Antioch and later left it for Rome where he died, unless you are privy to all the instructions Jesus revealed to Peter then I suggest you stop assuming he was never sent to Rome, in fact the great commission was to go throughout the world and proclaim the Gospel. In this issue there is no lie, the historic witness of the early Christian is clear, Peter was in Rome and died there.


sorry it seems you are confusing the Rosary a prayer that is about meditating on the life if Jesus while repeating scriptures and a chaplet which is made of beads. I can pray the rosary without using beads -it seems you are antibeads

asalimpo:
First, if you are in christ (born again, blood washed) you are a SAINT.
It is not conferred to you by any man or any entity.
2) James 5 v 16 talks of confessing our sins to one another in the context of healing.
Not as a church tradition!!
The bible also says that we should rightly divide the word of truth!
In context and with other verses we see that confessing our sins can aid in healing!!
That verse is in the context of healing.
No other verse in the bible, supports taking our sins to man!
We have a great high priest in heaven.
What's Jesus blood for?
What cleanses from sins?
The catholic practice is pagan, anti christ and decietful.
! john 1 v 9 - if we confess our sins HE (Who? the catholic priest? No! Jesus! God! )
is faithful and just to forgive us - AND (in addition to forgiving (who can forgive sins anyway if not God)
) cleanse us (who can cleanse? Man? No! God! ) (what will he cleanse sin with? His blood?)
Confession of sin to man is unbiblical.
Notice that the verse in james doesnt say confessing your sin to one another will cleanse sins? but aid in the healing. I believe this sins have to do with interpersonal sins. sins against another.
Even then, the cleansing and pardon needs to be gotten from God (Jesus)

I see you totally jumped and dodged the issue of Protestants deleting books from the Bible, are you not aware that your Protestant Bible has some books deleted even though the Church fathers tell us they are part of the Christian bible

MuttleyLaff:
I would never dream of doing such thing

No one said he was the source of moral law.

Posing question at one person at a time 9inches.
Since as for now, it's Ubenedictus, who is faced,
does he, Ubenedictus, condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

9inches, you raised your head above the parapet, so I'll extend the question to you too,
do you condone or condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?
Or you neither condone nor condemn consenting adults honest, lasting and loyal same sex relationship?

I haven't yet responded to your post, am about to do that.

let me state I don't condone any type of same sex sexually active relationship... I would seriously advise against such.

unless of course it is non sexual...


loyalty and honesty are good things but even criminal gangs can manage such it doesn't make them right.

asalimpo:
First, if you are in christ (born again, blood washed) you are a SAINT.
It is not conferred to you by any man or any entity.
2) James 5 v 16 talks of confessing our sins to one another in the context of healing.
Not as a church tradition!!
The bible also says that we should rightly divide the word of truth!
In context and with other verses we see that confessing our sins can aid in healing!!
That verse is in the context of healing.
No other verse in the bible, supports taking our sins to man!
We have a great high priest in heaven.
What's Jesus blood for?
What cleanses from sins?
The catholic practice is pagan, anti christ and decietful.
! john 1 v 9 - if we confess our sins HE (Who? the catholic priest? No! Jesus! God! )
is faithful and just to forgive us - AND (in addition to forgiving (who can forgive sins anyway if not God)
) cleanse us (who can cleanse? Man? No! God! ) (what will he cleanse sin with? His blood?)
Confession of sin to man is unbiblical.
Notice that the verse in james doesnt say confessing your sin to one another will cleanse sins? but aid in the healing. I believe this sins have to do with interpersonal sins. sins against another.
Even then, the cleansing and pardon needs to be gotten from God (Jesus)

the Catholic Church does NOT claim to confer sainthood, she does recognise it, of course I am a saint now...only in the context we are talking about those the Church is recognising are those who have completed their earthly journey.



2. at least you have admitted that James clearly teaches that it is OK and biblical justified to confess you sins to another human being something you previously denied, now let's look at James.


Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray.
Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the
elders of the church, and let them pray over him,
anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is
sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has
committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore,
confess your sins to one another and pray for one
another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a
righteous person has great power as it is working


first you are correct in one point that the context of this passage is healing... so if a Christian is ill hr should call the presbyter, he should be anointed with oil and prayed over,...James says 2 effects should follow, 1 healing, 2 forgiveness of sin.... but the entire passage was all about healing, how manage he is now talking about sins...he tell us how the presbyter is to know the sins he is praying about... he says " therefore confess to one another".

the the full picture, a man is sick, he calls the presbyter who anoints him with oil and prays, if the man has sinned he makes a confession and the prayer of the elder should be effective both for healing and for forgiveness.

so who do you think healed him? the elder? NO! the Bible says by his stripes we are healed, so it is Jesus that healed him not the elder, the elder was just an instrument.

the man confessed his sin was prayed for and James says he is forgiven, who forgave the sin? it Jesus, how? by his blood but the elder was the instrument.

so a Catholic presbyter does same he hears confession, he prays for forgiveness but it is Jesus that forgive the sins, it is his blood that washes and cleanse us but the instrument he uses is the elder.

this is biblical, right and OK...

the last objection you may have is that this can only happen during when someone his Ill, but that is incorrect because the power to pray over sins and declare it forgiven was given in John 20:23 and it says whatsoever sin you forgive are forgiven which means the apostles and elders they ordained can always use this authority wherever and whenever.

asalimpo:
In other words, you can be saved after death. Death is not the end?
And with such a doctrine the opportunistic church can sell indulgences and profit from gullible religious victims.
What is built imperfectly? the bible says, if you walk in the light as he is in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all sins (as you endeavour to walk in the light) - not after death.
the fire is the fire at the judgement seat of Christ not a fire in hades or somewhere else . Again, your sect twists the scriptures.
They are sincere catholics who really want to serve God. And some are truly born again- that i know.
The issue is the Roman catholic faith is polluted nd corrupted - infused with pagan philosophies and traditions.
Exposing these false sects is not a put down , but to those who love the truth,it is to help them out of darkness. Firstly, the bible is the only standard. Nothing that goes against it is valid.
With that purgatory is not biblically justified.
You need to only think to see this.
Those who are saved at the judgement seat of Christ - were already saved!!
They built on the foundation - Christ- so they were saved. But their works were of poor quality?
However, the bible talks of those who were once in christ (the branch) who will be cast out ( for not abiding)
and gathered and burned.
The purgatory doctrine teaches a salvation after death- very deceptive and unbiblical. Many will find out too late that they've been had.

purgatory does NOT teach of a salvation (justification) after death, those saved at the judgement seat of Christ were already Christians, already justified and already have Christ, the Bible says in 1 Corinthian 3 that they built on Christ, they only built imperfectly and thus will suffer loss as through fire before entering heaven.

this isn't an opportunistic teaching as you claim, this is clear biblical teaching, if a Christian builds imperfectly and appears before God's seat of judgement his work will be burnt, he too will suffer loss but he will be saved.... that is clear and biblical... the Catholic Church does not teach that the fire of hades is what will burn the person in fact the previous pope agrees with you that the fire is certainly that of Christ presence.


there is no pagan philosophy here, no lies here, this is plain biblical teaching, every saved believer who dies after walking with the Lord will face Jesus in judgement and if his works are imperfect he will be saved but will suffer loss as through fire.

that is clearly biblical teaching.

some were in the vine but got cut off, those ones are heading for hell.

if you wish to hate on the Catholic Church you are free, but this teaching is scripturally sound.

delishpot:
No gays should be allowed in the church unless they are new converts seeking deliverance.

I don't agree with this.

every one is welcome to Church, the saint, the sinner and even the criminal, the repentant, the repenting and even the unrepentant. Catholics are never to lose hope in God's power to bring the most unrepentant into grace

they are welcomed the Church

kevoh:
This is going to be hard. The give to Ceasar what belongs to Cesar law might be hard to apply here.

exactly

Gkemz:
The only message a masquerade need is a message of salvation and acceptance of Christ for him to be saved, instead of blessing him.

maybe you wish to push people away before you preach to them, this is Pentecostal don't do well in evangelising none Christians


if you don't show love to a person he will never listen to you

Jesutomisin:
http://naijachurchnews.com/catholic-hospitals-will-perform-abortions/

Irish prime minister, Leo Varadkar has said that Irish hospitals with a Catholic ethos will be expected to carry out abortions when the country’s new laws on terminations come into effect......read more....

this means the Church will either challenge this law in court or start selling her hospitals, let the government take over since they wish to impose an unjust law

asalimpo:
Catholicism mixes truth with its lies-how else do you appear convincing.
What about the doctrine of purgatory?
Who is the medium to God?
Why do you chant "Holy mary mother of God pray for us sinners .... "
Who is the pope? Christ's vicar on earth?!
Dont get me started on catholocism bro - that's talk for another day.
Align your beliefs with the bible not man made adulterations.

purgatory? it means that those who built on Christ but built imperfectly will be saved on the day of judgement as though by fire after suffering loss... that is what is called purgatory. salvation for those who built imperfectly, it is biblical cf 1 cor 3:15.

my medium to God is Christ Jesus, no one comes to the father but through him.
.I chant that because I want a fellow Christian to pray with me and for me more so the mother of my Lord and God, since I always need prayers I generally enjoy asking fellow Christian who are always before God's throne.

the Pope is a servant of Christ, vicar of Christ simply means ambassador or representative, and the prime minister in his kingdom the Church.

feel free to get started on Catholicism, I am sure it is aligned to the truth.

asalimpo:
To introduce heresies and errors like the JWs do - you have to establish that the forebears were in error!!!
The early church founding fathers,under the leadership of the Holy Spirit,sealed the revelation of God with the book of revelation. And it is said that whoever adds to the word of God or takes away from it will have curses and judgement of God on Him. (REvelations 22 v 18).

What about confession of one's sins to another human being?
The making of a saint by the will of man (the utterances of the pope)! Blasphemy
You may defend the lie or allow the truth change you by conforming to it

the same early Church fathers clearly tell us that the book of wisdom is part of the Bible and you Protestants deleted it 500 years, so ask yourself about the curse of revelation. is it for Catholics who kept the Bible exactly as the early Church fathers put it or the Protestants who deleted some books.

confession of sins to another human being and specifically to the presbyter of the Church is biblical and found in James 5.

saint are not made by the will of man Saint are those living or and asleep in Christ, Paul was happy to even call living Christians saint to tell you that the Church of Christ is free to identify her members as who they are I.e saints.

I am conformed to the word of God on each of these issues, are you?

asalimpo:
The oath of celibacy is from where? That oath has caused more abortions ,in secret , than any other thing.
So much sx goes on in seminaries - it's an open secret.
Like the bible foretold - "foreboding to marry ... " (one of the last days false righteousness trends)
Why enjoin such unbiblical practices? Because you people go about trying to establish your own righteousness instead of resting in the finished work of Christ.

celibacy is from Jesus who was celibate and taught that some will be celibate for the sake of the kingdom of God in Matthew.

I don't know of anyone who had an abortion and I hope you aren't spreading gossip. those sins are condemned by the Church. do you blame your Church for the sins of her members.

celibacy is not unbiblical

asalimpo:
Catholocism is a whole can of worms on it's own.
Disguised and perfumed idolatory!!
That image has pagan origins.
Was peter the apostle to rome? NO!
But catholocism say so.
What is the rosary you people pray!!! - (Which command in the bible (NT) says to do so?)
The oath of celibacy is from where? That oath has caused more abortions ,in secret , than any other thing.
So much sx goes on in seminaries - it's an open secret.
Like the bible foretold - "foreboding to marry ... " (one of the last days false righteousness trends)
Why enjoin such unbiblical practices? Because you people go about trying to establish your own righteousness instead of resting in the finished work of Christ.

sorry, which image has pagan origin? an image is an image, no image is bad immoral or pagan by itself, it is what it is used for that determine if it is pagan. so you can't just look at an image and call it pagan..

according to historical sources and the writings of early Christians Peter was in Rome, he taught there and was killed there by the emperor Nero, do you have any historical sources that says otherwise, or should I disregard the witness of early Christians just because you don't like the Catholic Church..

as for the rosary, it is simply the recalling of Bible passages on the life of Jesus and a request to another Christian to add me in prayers

Ebuscoee:
1. Understanding of the Bible

Catholicism and Protestantism have distinct views on the meaning and the authority of the Bible. For Protestant Christians, Luther made clear that the Bible is the "Sola Skriptura," God's only book, in which He provided His revelations to the people and which allows them to enter in communion with Him.
Catholics, on the other hand, do not base their beliefs on the Bible alone. Along with the Holy Scripture, they are additionally bound by the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.

not on the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church, Catholics don't base doctrine on Roman Catholic tradition, we base doctrine on the word of God whether received in the Bible or taught by the apostles the the early Church, what we accept is apostolic tradition.


example if the Catholic Church wish to see what is revealed about the divinity of Jesus, we look through the Bible and also see how the entire Christian Church taught by the apostles understood the word...that way we avoid false interpretation of the word

asalimpo:
If you want to create a new false religion what's the best way to start?
Think up something crazy and market it.
Some fish will bite. People will fall for anything.
e.g Scientology
But to be really plausible- just market it to an already existing and established market
i.e the christian sheeple people.
And so so many false christian sects have been born.
But they all follow a pattern.
Besides, market something off the offshoots of christianity makes it more plausible.

Here are some patterns

5) Extra-biblical materials
In seventh day adventists , it's the teaching of their founder- ellen G white
IN Jehovah witnesses,it's the teachings of the watchtower and their publications
In islam its ofcourse the koran
In mormonism , they've got their book of mormons
in catholicism they've got the apocryphal books

6) Special unique revelations
The bible says, no prophecy is of private interpretation.
Flip this on its head and you get the patterns of inspirations that other false sects build on-special revelation only their founders have.
To build a biblical doctrine, all revelations must be submitted to the acid-test of the rest of the scriptures,
for in the mouth of two or three witnesses a matter is established.
Not so with these groups.
With SDA - it's ellen G white's prophecies
With JW's- the revelation handed down by charles taze russell
With Mormons - joseph's smith's revelations
With islam - Muhammed's revelations
etc
Infact these sects build off entirely on false revelations

7) Changing the bible to suit their theology
For those who use the bible, they eventually have to alter the bible to suit their thinking
- with JW (a new bible has to be written that inserts words not found in the original manuscript)
- with Koran (they claim the comforter (the holy spirit is Muhammed)
- With catholicism, they use the vulgate bible rather than the other authentic translations other bibles are derived from.
etc

Emphasize personal efforts for salvation
The difference btwn true christianity and other religions is that , Christ did it all for his people.
You just receive Him and trust in His finished works to be saved.
While you've got to live holy but it's not your effort that saves you.
In contrast, false sects pride themselves in their works and their righteousness.
In islam - the works are giving, praying 5 times a day
In JW - evangelize,
In catholocism - numerous (infact catholocism is notorious for this. At a time the catholic church sold indulgences! pay to get your loved ones out of purgatory)
In SDA - observe the sabbath, abstain from pork etc
It's all about how good you've been to earn salvation.
with this works mentality adherents are kept under an abiding sense of guiltiness. They are always questioning wether they've done enough to earn God's favour or not.
Couple this with the elevation of man as their intermediary between God , and the perfect system for
manipulation is installed.
In the end it's all bondage!!

Once, the recipe for a false religion is in place. With patience and proper marketing, lots of gullible members will be drawn in in time.

5. the books you call apocypha is rightly called deuterocanonical and it is not extra biblical, when the early Church compiled the Bible 1600year ago, those books were all part of the Christian Bible, it was the Protestants who removed them because they didn't like the word, 500years ago.

7. in Catholicism the Syrian Catholic Church uses the Aramaic Bible, the bazentine Catholics use the Greek Bible, the Roman Church uses the Vulgate, in fact the previous pope was proficient in both koine Greek and Latin, so who told you Catholics only use the vulgate

Ubenedictus:
please before you start spreading information make sure it is true
1 Catholic do NOT teach or believe in anything called the divinity of Mary
2. in Catholicism Jesus is THE way.

3. Catholics are taught to develop personal, covenantal intimate relationship with God

4 in Catholicism the Pope is not a deity nor semi deity, he is questioned, always was since the time of Peter, Catholicism doesn't discourage questions, it does laugh at close minded criticisms born of ignorance such as these.
if you have a question any knowledgeable Catholic or priest or bishop will gladly answer u.

Ubenedictus:
please before you start spreading information make sure it is true
1 Catholic do NOT teach or believe in anything called the divinity of Mary
2. in Catholicism Jesus is THE way.

3. Catholics are taught to develop personal, covenantal intimate relationship with God

the priest is not an obstacle to God he is a guide

asalimpo:
If you want to create a new false religion what's the best way to start?
Think up something crazy and market it.
Some fish will bite. People will fall for anything.
e.g Scientology
But to be really plausible- just market it to an already existing and established market
i.e the christian sheeple people.
And so so many false christian sects have been born.
But they all follow a pattern.
Besides, market something off the offshoots of christianity makes it more plausible.

Here are some patterns

1) Start with the bible, then deviate to some other niche. Harp on the niche
With Jehovah witnesses,its the name of God
With SDA (seven day adventists) it's sabbath
With catholicism its (Divinity of Mary)

2) They put down the person of Jesus Christ
in subtle ways all pseudo christian sects dont exalt Jesus and what he has done.
The put him down.
In islam he is a prophet (just another prophet of allah)
In jehovah witnesses he is a created being
in catholocism he isnt the way . No not the only way
In mormonism he is the favoured child of God and God is just an ascended human

3) Create barriers to direct access to God
In the bible, after the start of the new covenant. Man has direct access to God.
The bible says "[you] come boldly to the throne of grace ... "
In false religion its not so. Man is the intermediary.
Man is elevated to the place of Christ to vet those who will come to God.
In catholocism - its the priest
In Jehovah witnesses its the elders
etc
There is not personal relationship with God in these religions.
The members are not taught to cultivate a personal intimacy with God.
But we see a God who in the beginning made time to hang out with man in the garden of eden.

4) Thrive on ignorance and discourage questioning
In Jehovah witnesses, members are brainwashed to not question the tenets of the faith
but to whole heartedly believe the teaching handed down to them
in Islam, questioning could lead to death
In catholocism, the pope is already diety or demi-god, no questioning needed.
In all false christian sects - intense questioning is frowned upon.
Stringent measures are put in place to discourage these practices.
The reason is obvious. Isolate members from the truth, then enshroud them in a fog of lies (darkness).

5) Extra-biblical materials
In seventh day adventists , it's the teaching of their founder- ellen G white
IN Jehovah witnesses,it's the teachings of the watchtower and their publications
In islam its ofcourse the koran
In mormonism , they've got their book of mormons
in catholicism they've got the apocryphal books

6) Special unique revelations
The bible says, no prophecy is of private interpretation.
Flip this on its head and you get the patterns of inspirations that other false sects build on-special revelation only their founders have.
To build a biblical doctrine, all revelations must be submitted to the acid-test of the rest of the scriptures,
for in the mouth of two or three witnesses a matter is established.
Not so with these groups.
With SDA - it's ellen G white's prophecies
With JW's- the revelation handed down by charles taze russell
With Mormons - joseph's smith's revelations
With islam - Muhammed's revelations
etc
Infact these sects build off entirely on false revelations

7) Changing the bible to suit their theology
For those who use the bible, they eventually have to alter the bible to suit their thinking
- with JW (a new bible has to be written that inserts words not found in the original manuscript)
- with Koran (they claim the comforter (the holy spirit is Muhammed)
- With catholicism, they use the vulgate bible rather than the other authentic translations other bibles are derived from.
etc

Emphasize personal efforts for salvation
The difference btwn true christianity and other religions is that , Christ did it all for his people.
You just receive Him and trust in His finished works to be saved.
While you've got to live holy but it's not your effort that saves you.
In contrast, false sects pride themselves in their works and their righteousness.
In islam - the works are giving, praying 5 times a day
In JW - evangelize,
In catholocism - numerous (infact catholocism is notorious for this. At a time the catholic church sold indulgences! pay to get your loved ones out of purgatory)
In SDA - observe the sabbath, abstain from pork etc
It's all about how good you've been to earn salvation.
with this works mentality adherents are kept under an abiding sense of guiltiness. They are always questioning wether they've done enough to earn God's favour or not.
Couple this with the elevation of man as their intermediary between God , and the perfect system for
manipulation is installed.
In the end it's all bondage!!

Once, the recipe for a false religion is in place. With patience and proper marketing, lots of gullible members will be drawn in in time.

please before you start spreading information make sure it is true
1 Catholic do NOT teach or believe in anything called the divinity of Mary
2. in Catholicism Jesus is THE way.

3. Catholics are taught to develop personal, covenantal intimate relationship with God

brocab:
I suppose this is why the catholic Church refuses to take care of the first Church! Plus does anybody in the Catholic Church believe Jews in Jerusalem?
Catholic Tradition tells us the Holy Spirit took place when Judas be traded Jesus in the upper room!
Catholic Tradition says that the apostles received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost in an upper room, but is that really what the Bible says?
The Bible says, “When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place” {Acts 2:1}
Where was that one place?
Catholic Tradition places that the receiving of the Spirit on Pentecost happened in the upper room of {Acts 1}
{V 4} And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me.
The disciples met in the upper room after the ascension, but ten days elapsed between the ascension and the events described in {Acts 2}
The story does not indicate that they were still in that upper room in {Acts 2} More likely, the believers assembled in one of the courts of the Temple, we can believe this story through guessing or tradition, or we can examine the scriptures!
Jesus said: they are to return back to Jerusalem, at the time this Church was built underground, who knows the exact time, but James the brother of Jesus had began this Church in Jerusalem, and it's the Jewish locals that claims this is the Church they received the Holy Spirit?
What happened in the upper room? After Judas’s departure, Jesus instituted the New Covenant in His blood, a new command that those who follow Him are to love one another and live by the power of the Holy Spirit. It didn't say the disciples received the Holy Spirit at that time in the upper room. Pentecost came after!
He does tell us that Jesus prayed over the disciples in what is called His “high priestly prayer” in {John 17} because the following chapter begins by saying that after He had spoken those words, He and the disciples went to the Garden of Gethsemane, where He was betrayed.
The prayer of Jesus for the disciples is the culmination of His dealings with them and is a poignant reminder of His deep love and concern for them.
Knowing that He would soon be leaving them, He committed them to the care of His Father, asking that they may be one and asking that the Father keep them in Jesus’ name {verse 11}
He asks His Father to keep them from the evil one {verse 15} and to sanctify them by the truth, which is His Word {verse 17}
He applies this same prayer to believers in all ages, saying, “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word” {verse 20}
Many of the events of the upper room echo down to us today. We live under the New Covenant instituted at that time, we observe the ordinance of the Lord’s Supper in remembrance of that night {1 Corinthians 11:23–26} and we live under the blessing of His prayer for all those who love and follow Him.
I don't see the day of Pentecost had anything to do with the upper room?
Is this your answer Uben, you expect me to believe this above, what the Catholic Church shows fear from the Orthodox Church, because of one lonely Church no-one seems to recognise it exist? And yet the Catholic Church has a large army and yet it takes one man to front the Orthodox Church alone and he posted this video, without getting himself beating up? "Truly if the Catholic Church really wanted people to know the truth, they wouldn't have denied the bible-Uben if you had watched the video they treated this man with respect, and they allowed this man to film the first Church, and now it's all over the net.

you have the internet you can browse about Orthodox monks fighting in Jerusalem over sites.

the site is in the care of the Orthodox Church, Catholics can't take it over, it took 12 yrs for the Orthodox Church to even allow the Church of the holy sepulchre to be painted and that Church is jointly managed not to talk of here where they have sole custody.

the Orthodox Church can repair the Church, they have sole custody

this below may be Budaatum's opinion, but for the Christian Church morality is not determined by society but by God, so even if society says murder is OK, it will still be immoral... atleast that is my perspective as a Catholic Christian....

you are of course free to disagree.

MuttleyLaff:
It is widely understood that morals are learnt from ones society
- Budaatum ©

It is useless for you to worship me, when you teach rules made up by humans."
- Matthew 15:9

It is no use for them to worship me, because they teach human rules as though they were my laws!
- Matthew 15:9

⁷It is no use for them to worship me,
because they teach human rules
as though they were my laws!’
⁸“You put aside God's command and obey human teachings.”
- Mark 7:7-8

Please identify clearly and definitely what the doctrine is

you have created a strawman, doctrine in the context I used it refers to revealed Truth not human tradition. I speaking of that which God has revealed about himself and about us and has been received and taught by the Church for 2000yrs

eg Jesus is the Son of God, lived died and rose again for us, now at the father's right hand interceding etc, God has taught man not to steal or practice homosexuality etc.

those are not human rules...and by quoting the passages above it shows you are attacking a straw man of your own creation.

Really?
Nobody has the power to change traditions of men?
Especially or even, if they are ill-advised regulation(s)?

nobody has the power to change the truths God has revealed certainly not a conference of clerics as the Church of England has done.

tradition of men change all the time whenever they are judged unuseful

johnydon22:
This is due to flexibility of tradition.

The Catholic church is traditionally more rigid and strong. Must it too will be caught in that drift

yeah, morality gets decided by vote in conference.


the Catholic Church will come pretty close but it won't come to this... there are doctrines and nobody have to power to change them

Sunnyburn2000:
To be perfectly clear

This won't be the first time north Korea has signed and agreed to similar deal only to walk back from such deals.

They have done similar deals in 1992 and the six party talks in 2002.


However, this will be the first time an American president will meet with a Korean president in this manner. It is also the first time America decides to halt joint military operations with south Korea on the Korean peninsula as a sweetener for North Korea to destroy more nuclear testing sites and halt nuclear weapons test, as well as the first time an American president will label the joint military operations as "provocative acts" borrowing from China and North Korean's vocabulary.

In fact, the framework for this deal might not be able to match a similar Iranian deal that was thrown out by the current American administration and labeled the worst deal ever by Trump, because unlike the Iranian nuclear deal that subjected the Iranian nuclear program to multiple inspections from the international community, it is unlikely that the North Koreans deal will also follow suit.

this means as far as the deal is concerned north Korea wins

Daniel058:
So whats your point? That he's not a catholic Bishop what??

he is on his own. the Church does not support such teaching... I don't know if he is a Catholic Bishop, if he is, he is on his own.

the funny part is that the Catholic church does not teach a pre-tribulation rapture, rapture will happen but it will be after the Antichrist and at the parousia.

estheragha:
CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF, THE LORD WILL ONLY APPEAR AFTER THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS HAS BEEN REVEALED, AND NOT BEFORE!( 2 Thessalonians 2:3)

We must realize now that the ERA OF THE PALE HORSE is fast approaching. The Great Tribulation of seven years, divided into two periods of three and a half years, is the providence of God for this era. In the era of the pale horse, the world will face the plagues of the seven trumpets and the seven bowls. Hail and fire from the sky will destroy a third of the world’s forest; comets will fall into the sea and kill a third of the creatures in it and turn a third of the world’s water poisonous; and a third of the sun, the moon, and the star will be struck and turn dark.

As heroes arise in times of great difficulties, the Antichrist will emerge as the hero of the world at the end times, and the whole world will become his. He will solve all the problems and difficulties of the world and be worshipped as a god. The Antichrist will then require all to receive the mark of 666, his name and number, on their right hands or foreheads.

But the saints who are TRULY born-again of water and spirit will not receive the mark, and they will be MARTYRED to defend their true faith. These saints who would stand against the Antichrist and be martyred for their faith will then be RAPTURED by the Lord and be called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. The era of the pale horse is fast approaching us. We must endeavor to have the sound knowledge and faith that can prepare us for the end times ahead.

Have you met the true and complete gospel of water and spirit which allows us to be truly born of water and spirit? Are you covinced that you are armed with the true faith, ready for the troubles ahead?

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amen

rapture will happen post tribulation not pretribulation

brocab:
Well their isn't much difference between both Churches, and since the Orthodox Church is looking after it, having some difficulty, then one would think the Roman Catholic Church would support this Church, this is the first Church James had began after His Brother Jesus had risen..
Don't you understand this is the place Mary and the disciples had received the Holy Spirit, this is beginning of the Christians, this historical Church shouldn't be hidden under a car park, Christians need to see this place..
Did you watch the video, or are you reading between the lines?

this is not the place where the holy spirit descended on the apostles. the holy spirit descended in the upper room, the upper room is in the care of the Catholic Franciscans.

this is simply the meeting place like a catacomb of the Church in Jerusalem, this was where they met during persecution, this is where they baptised new Christian, celebrated the Eucharist etc. you can see the ancient Christian symbols there as you'll find in Catholic churches.

but the simple issue is that the Church falls under the immediate control of the Orthodox Church, they have sole, autonomous control, in fact the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem is sometimes violent when it comes to their sites, during the time of the previous patriarch of Jerusalem, the Orthodox monks used to gang up and attack the Catholic monks and beat them up.


any thing like such help will result in violence from the Orthodox.... so we stay clear of stuff that isn't in our care.

johnydon22:
That is some take over shiit..

yeah, they were wise, after they got acceptance now they are sending out those who disagree with them.

the Church of England seem to be dying two times faster than the average European Church, closely followed it seems by the Lutherans.

MuttleyLaff:
I know they all or each, are Catholic ministers & theologians.

I wonder if I am to say, I also had begun taken a shine to Prof Ishaq Akintola, what you'll make of hearing that.

Maybe you should adjust your way of looking/thinking,
to see that, I chew hay and spit out the sticks
Even if there are disagreements about anything, it doesnt stop me, give credit, when/where credit is due.

Amen

Gggg102:
Are they harlots or not?

oya answer the question na

johnydon22:
On the admonition of the Holy spirit he went down and burnt the village shrine.

His congregation sang songs of praise, they hailed both God and pastor for a job well done as the blazing fire ate everything.

"If their God is powerful, why didn't he stop his shrine from going up in flames?"
Pastor boasted to a jeering crowd who laughed and clapped at his remark.

Getting back to the church premises, it has been razed to the ground. Some group of Jihadists had thrown a bomb into the complex and everything was destroyed.

"Oh they are persecuting us" The pastor moaned "We are facing tribulations for Christ"

the crowd behind him cried and prayed to God, their heart firmly resolved to take on the persecution for the sake of Christ.

None of them asked the same question "if our God was powerful, why didn't he stop the church from getting blown up"

No, this is different to them, this is persecution.

Jesus fought against hypocrites all his life, then created the greatest hypocrites the world have known after going back to heaven.

The Irony and hypocrisy of Christianity

that is certainly hypocrisy

johnydon22:
I agree. Every organization should reserve the right to dictate their own term and condition.

If you can't keep these terms and conditions, leave them alone and go form your own.

the Anglican Church has already decided to welcome gay and lesbians, that is their rule.


the gays are going to the conference to ask those who can't keep the rules to get out of the Church.

hopefulLandlord:
Of course he did, he revealed the truth to you and those that differ from the truth he revealed to you either don't have it or are lying or are heretics. its almost as if you're holy spirit

nope dear, he formed his Church, he revealed the truth to the apostles and promised his Spirit upon his Church to guide her for all ages.

in the Church the apostles taught the Truth and ministered the spirit, if there was an issue they knew that the holy spirit is with them, they come together, decide on the matter and it is established, they bestowed this teaching to faithful men to teach others, these were given authority in the Church. so that after the apostles died others continued in their place with the same teaching, the same authority and the same spirit and promises. That is the Church, some years later those leaders gathered some of the apostles writings and they recognized according to the spirit that it is inspired, they called it the Bible.


those who fall into trouble are those who leave the Church formed by Jesus and the apostles, steal out one of the Church properties-the Bible, and interpret it how they feel like.... they end up misinterpreting it.