₦airaland Forum

LemonBoy1:
Hmmmm...bros, that is not the reason for diluting with water. Water and wine mixture mostly symbolizes the blood and water mixture that flowed from Christ's body after a spear was thrusted into his body. Just a breif point, you could get more on Google.

he is right.


the mixture of water and wine has symbolic meanings, if you know the prayer said during the mixing you will notice it symbolises the hypostatic union, I.e the union of the divine nature with the human nature....

but the practice itself comes from Judaism which mandate that drops of water should be mixed with wine to dilute it, and was part of the passover practices at the time of Christ.

ebenice:
what "truth"?

would you like to ask Paul?

johnw74:
I already proved the early church is not the roman catholic church which you belong to.
Peter Paul and all the original teachers didn't teach about having statues, and praying to deceased saints, and that's just a couple of things






truly pointing out that mary is not to be given any special place in faith is not attacking her
but you confused uben reply with garbage not related to what is said,



you uben cannot reply to what is said, but twist everything around,
which of course is what haters of the truth do, they lie

sorry you didn't prove anything.
you simply imagined that whatever the Bible isn't explicit about is wrong you forgot the Church came before the new testament.
why not try going through the writings of the early Christians and be informed.

freshboi88:
Omo this one nah fatality o....dem don kill u here

make dem try.

blueAgent:
Are you a learner? my specialty is on occult and fake religeons i can tell you more about your Church than you can ever know.

your mate study theology you study occult.


oya paste the particular symbol confusing you and what you think it means and I'll help you do the research.

please paste the PIC of the symbol in the context it appears and not a link.

OLAADEGBU:
Holy men were used in penning the Scriptures and I do not mean catholic monks.

in this case the apostles and their disciples, the first Catholics.

myboy2010:
so sorry for this question but it has been bothering me for quite some time now, why do Catholics gives so much honour to Mary, we call her Virgin Mary whereas that was before she gave birth to Jesus, she didn't die as a virgin... all glory is to Jesus not Mary

rationally it is simple, much honor Mary receives is because she is the mother of our Lord and God, Christ Jesus.

I watched a video the other day of Benny hinn at Christ embassy praising Chris Oyakhilome's mum with several titles and the applaud of the congregation simply because she gave birth to a pastor, what more the mother of the redeemer of humanity?.... if you had the opportunity to create your own mother what would you create... Jesus had that opportunity and he filled her with grace... she lived an honorable life, fulfilled God's will to the fullest.

What is the criterion for honor if not fulfilling the will of God.


scripturally, I find it in those words of praise God addressed to her in Luke 1:28, in the example of the holy woman Elisabeth in Luke 1:42 and in her prophetic words in Luke 1:48.

God praised her, scriptures records holy people people praising her and prophesied that she will be honored for all generation... and 2000yrs of the christian faith records Christians speaking in her honor we are happy to fulfill that prophecy.

OLAADEGBU:
What do you mean by "no human element"?

no human took pen and paper to write?

johnw74:
are you such a liar that you cannot point them out?

when i called you a false accuser, that is the truth
you call the truth name calling, that's no surprise either

on and on he goes. when you are ready to have a respectful discussion let me know.

johnw74:
I already proved the early church is not the roman catholic church which you belong to.
Peter Paul and all the original teachers didn't teach about having statues, and praying to deceased saints, and that's just a couple of things






truly pointing out that mary is not to be given any special place in faith is not attacking her
but you confused uben reply with garbage not related to what is said,



you uben cannot reply to what is said, but twist everything around,
which of course is what haters of the truth do, they lie

of course I am not surprised you can't distinguish between your 16th century heresy and the historic Christian faith. sorry, it is a pity.

johnw74:
more on ubens and Catholicism's SHOCKING Attitude Toward The Bible!


Mary per Catholicism

Apparitions of Mary
1531, Guadalupe Mexico, appearance to Juan Diego.
These are the words of the apparition. Let’s take a look at them and pay close attention to who is exalted. Also, notice that the apparition claims perfection and holiness. "Know, know for sure, my dearest, littlest, and youngest son, that I am the perfect and ever Virgin Holy Mary.” (theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/words/wordguad.html)
Marian Apparition, Guadalupe, Mexio, 1531, “I am truly your merciful Mother, yours and all the people who live united in this land and of all the other people of different ancestries, my lovers, who love me, those who seek me, those who trust in me. Here I will hear their weeping, their complaints and heal all their sorrows, hardships and sufferings.” (theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/words/wordguad.html)
Marian Apparition, Guadalupe, Mexio, 1531, “Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not the source of your joy? Are you not in the hollow of my mantle, in the crossing of my arms? Do you need anything more? (theotokos.org.uk/pages/approved/words/wordguad.html)

^^^ this mary thinks she is the source of joy,
she thinks she is above God.

Christians know that the real Mary had other children after Jesus,
rc's don't believe the Bible and so change and twist it, like other so called christian sects do

this mary say's that rc's seek her.
Real Christians seek God.

uben, your mary, is in fact satan the devil,
he tried to put himself above God and lost,
but he is above God in the rcc as the fake mary,
calling him-her self the source of joy,
not mentioning God at all but saying to seek him-her-mary
and you roman catholics believe satan, the fake mary.

are you aware that it is considered heresy in the apostolic faith to teach what Protestants teach about Mary.

are you also aware that these your heretical teachings began in the 16th century?

DoctorAlien:
and I am telling you that Roman Catholics did not exist before Constantine. How hard is it to understand?

IH! I should agree because you said it? were is you proof?


I can show writings dated from 200 years before Constantine all affirming that the Church of Christ is the Catholic Church. where is your proof.

back it up or keep shut

DoctorAlien:
That's a big lie! Before the Roman Catholic Church began to exist, people of God read and were guided by the books in the Bible now.

please list the people who used the Bible before the Catholic Church and weren't Catholic, is that too hard for you.



if you are making a claim back it up, if you claim Christians were using the current Bible and they weren't Catholics, then name them.

if you can't, why not learn.

Themandator:
If you read the scripture you are citing carefully, you will realised that sins are forgiven upon application of the anointing oil.

No! the Bible doesn't say that it says " And the prayer offered
in faith will make the sick person well; the
Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned,
they will be forgiven." it is the prayer of the presbyter that enable forgiveness of sins.

Other translations of the Bible uses faults .... Because the sins have already been taken care of by the prayers of the elders and the anointing oil...... Confess your faults ..ONE TO ANOTHER ...This is simple English that applies when you have more than two people involved. .... James , if he meant what you are implying , could have asked them to confess their sins or faults to him since he IS an apostle but he told them one to another .....THE ONE I HAVE OFFENDED IS THE WILL ENTITLED TO MY CONFESSION.

the Greek word in that passage is hamartia it means sin not fault or offense to a person. Jesus gave his apostles power to forgive sins I.e offenses against God and James tells us how the priest is to know such sins I.e confession and Paul records and example of himself exercising that power.


it isn't about talking to someone you offended it is about forgiving sins.

Please Note that it wasn't all the time that Jesus healed that he forgave sins ... Not all infirmities are as a result of sin, some are tricks of the enemies ....."And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God." (Luk 13:10-13)............When sin was the root of the issue he forgave sins.


If I wrong my wife , it would be foolish to run to a priest to confess. Nothing from the priest will bring respite ... The person I have offended is the one in a position to forgive me.

Forgiveness brings deliverance otherwise it is not worth it ...Every forgiveness brings relieve to the one forgiven ....Every forgiveness brings deliverance including state pardon .. that Jesus demonstrated and ask them and us to continue in that tradition

we are not talking about offenses against your wife, we are talking about sin, the Greek term is hermatia

Thee is no scripture anywhere to back up what you do as confession in the Catholic Church.. it is mans personal idea and it is not scriptural. What you brought up in 2 Cor 2:10 still doesn't speak to your idea of forgiveness....Whomever forgive I also forgive ............."To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;" (2Cor 2:10)....... Until I forgive you for the wrong against me , it stays ............ If I have offended you you ought to know without my telling you

this only show you are ignorant of the scripture, a man committed incest in 1 cor Paul said the punishment is excommunication but in 2 cor he said the guy is forgiven because once he forgives a sin it is forgiven with Christ's authority.


that is how it has been understood and practiced in the church.


N.B. Pope innocent made a church law that says every Catholic should go to confession at least once a year.he didn't establish confession, confession has been practiced since the 1st century. make research so as not to spread misinformation.

OLAADEGBU:
Wrong application. The elders of the church are not the same as the pope. The apostolic era which started with the Lord Jesus Christ directly commissioning the 12 Apostles in AD 33 and ended with the death of Apostle John in AD 100. Those claiming to carry on the apostolic succession are false apostles and those who have followed them have been led astray. Paul warned us against this in the verse below:

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:13).

"The test is always that of complete fidelity to Scripture and only Scripture as determinative for Christian faith and practice. Note also Isaiah 8:20; II Timothy 3:15-17; and II Peter 3:3,15-18."

Titus 1:5–1:5
5 I left you behind in Crete for this reason, so
that
you should put in order what remained to be
done, and should appoint elders in every town, as
I directed you:
1 Timothy 1:3–1:3
3 I urge you, as I did when I was on my way to
Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus so that you
may instruct certain people not to teach any
different doctrine,
, “And what you heard from
me through many witnesses entrust to faithful
people who will have the ability to teach
others as well” (2 Timothy 2:2
“They [the Apostles] appointed presbyters for
them in each church” (Acts 14:23




so again the Bible tells us that the apostles appointed and ordained people to succeed them in ministry.


ola says no!


of course I agree with the Bible and disagree with ola

DoctorAlien:
The Bible is whose arrangement?

the Catholic Church... who else?

johnw74:
The early church is not the roman catholic church which you belong to
the early church never taught to have statues, the early church never prayed to them
the early church never followed mary but only Jesus

however you uben lie in most posts showing who is the god of your church that you follow

since you jumped into the discussion.


please give us the list of the early Christians from the 1st to the 4th century who preserved and used your exact same Bible and prove they aren't Catholic.

pointing out that mary is not to be given any special place in faith is not attacking her
but lie away uben

then why is it that every Christian from the early Church who wrote about the topic disagree with you. could it be because the Protestants have departed from historic and apostolic Christianity and follow 15th century heresy?

your church that is filled with pedophiles and child abuse is truly not the church established by Christ
you are deceived by satan the god of the rcc

my church does have humans who make mistakes, but it also has saints, great men and women and the manifestation of God's presence.


If among the apostles personally handpicked by Jesus there is Judas, then I am not surprised that there exist imperfect people in the church he established. Are all in your church formed by 21st century men perfect?

johnw74:
hey[b] false accuser [/b]uben, point out the name calling

are you so blind that you can't see it?

[quote author=johnw74 post=61115659]The early church is not the roman catholic church which you belong to
the early church never taught to have statues, the early church never prayed to them
the early church never followed mary but only Jesus

however you uben lie in most posts showing who is the god of your church that you follow[\quote]

since you jumped into the discussion.


please give us the list of the early Christians from the 1st to the 4th century who preserved and used your exact same Bible and prove they aren't Catholic.

pointing out that mary is not to be given any special place in faith is not attacking her
but lie away uben

then why is it that every Christian from the early Church who wrote about the topic disagree with you. could it be because the Protestants have departed from historic and apostolic Christianity and follow 15th century heresy?

your church that is filled with pedophiles and child abuse is truly not the church established by Christ
you are deceived by satan the god of the rcc

my church does have humans who make mistakes, but it also has saints, great men and women and the manifestation of God's presence.


If among the apostles personally handpicked by Jesus there is Judas, then I am not surprised that there exist imperfect people in the church he established. Are all in your church formed by 21st century men perfect?

DoctorAlien:
Roman Catholicism did not exist before Constantine:

The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Constantine found that, with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse, not everyone would agree to forsake his or her religious beliefs to embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities. Some clear examples of this are as follows:

(1) The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary. Many of the titles that were used for Isis, such as “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” and theotokos (“God-bearer”) were attached to Mary. Mary was given an exalted role in the Christian faith, far beyond what the Bible ascribes to her, in order to attract Isis worshippers to a faith they would not otherwise embrace. Many temples to Isis were, in fact, converted into temples dedicated to Mary. The first clear hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship.

(2) Mithraism was a religion in the Roman Empire in the 1st through 5th centuries AD. It was very popular among the Romans, especially among Roman soldiers, and was possibly the religion of several Roman emperors. While Mithraism was never given “official” status in the Roman Empire, it was the de facto official religion until Constantine and succeeding Roman emperors replaced Mithraism with Christianity. One of the key features of Mithraism was a sacrificial meal, which involved eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a bull. Mithras, the god of Mithraism, was “present” in the flesh and blood of the bull, and when consumed, granted salvation to those who partook of the sacrificial meal (this is known as theophagy, the eating of one’s god). Mithraism also had seven “sacraments,” making the similarities between Mithraism and Roman Catholicism too many to ignore. Church leaders after Constantine found an easy substitute for the sacrificial meal of Mithraism in the concept of the Lord’s Supper/Christian communion. Even before Constantine, some early Christians had begun to attach mysticism to the Lord’s Supper, rejecting the biblical concept of a simple and worshipful remembrance of Christ’s death and shed blood. The Romanization of the Lord’s Supper made the transition to a sacrificial consumption of Jesus Christ, now known as the Catholic Mass/Eucharist, complete.

(3) Most Roman emperors (and citizens) were henotheists. A henotheist is one who believes in the existence of many gods, but focuses primarily on one particular god or considers one particular god supreme over the other gods. For example, the Roman god Jupiter was supreme over the Roman pantheon of gods. Roman sailors were often worshippers of Neptune, the god of the oceans. When the Catholic Church absorbed Roman paganism, it simply replaced the pantheon of gods with the saints. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these, and many other categories. Just as many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, so the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for the cities.

(4) The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire, and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine (AD 272–337) and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Western half of the Roman Empire collapsed in 476, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus. Pope Gregory I, ruling from 590–604, is usually considered the first bishop to truly wield papal authority.

Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and “church tradition.” Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

Second Timothy 4:3–4 declares, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”

Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

please can you name the Christians before
Constantine who used your exact current bible
and weren't Catholics.


learn to answer the question you were asked... Read and answer .

blueAgent:
Are you trying to digress from the truth?

no dear, I don't even have the time to digress, I have noticed that you guys are in the habit of criticising what you don't understand and calling it satanic.

so my question remains, are you sure you know the difference between an occultic symbol and a Christian symbol, or you are just throwing accusations.

analice107:
May you stand proud on the day of Judgement to defend your pride.

I won't need to defend the church established by Christ as his body and Bride for all times, she will shine brightly on that day. I only pray you are among those who shine in her.

johnw74:
i'm certinally not new to your continued lies baba, they seem to be all you know, post after post
as for your daesh nonsense, it's just more lies and off topic accusations from you, taking after your god:

Joh_8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



baba, point out the insults and hatred for truth in my posts:

let the name calling start rolling in.

analice107:
Guy, bottom line is, even if you complied the Bible, if you don't do what's contained in it, you are damned. The Catholics make a whole lot of irrelevant mondaine claims, they don't matter bro.

if they don't matter why did you guys open a thread about it.

of course when you are refuted then you start shouting how the truth doesn't matter.

blackbriar:
You are very funny
you made a harsh claim against dem Catholics and they refuted it....you hurriedly jumped to another claim and they also refuted it with facts.
Now you are saying stop making claims and seek salvation.
Please what is the the topic of this discussion int he first place?

haha ask him. some people hate been straightforward.

The Portuguese who came to take slaves in Africa, did they present the gospel of salvation to us? No.

The Spanish who destroyed the Incas, Mayans, and Aztec Kingdoms and established the Latin America, was it for the souls of men or for land?

Do you know that the first missionaries in Nigeria were not Catholics but Baptists?

The Anglican Church is more or less Catholic, we have nothing in common with them. We look into the scripture depending on the Holy Spirit for revelations and guidance, not on traditions of men. That's why i don't need Bishop Oyedepo for much. He trains us as pastors to stand everywhere and take charge.

quote author=Ubenedictus post=60896091]
certainly these simply shows your lack of historical knowledge similar to what obtains among pastors,the HOLY spirit didn't teach you these history remix. That is all you and your pastors.
When you say History, i know you are talking about what the Catholic Church has concocted for you. lolzzzzz. I read unbiased history, written by Historians not people who have an agenda to promote.

Encyclopedias are there, i started reading this things as a little Catholic girl, i don't why the fascination with this matters, but I was reading.

Brother, if you really read the Bible and not the history written by men to control men, you'd leave the Catholic Church.

Listen, no single person preached me out of the Catholic Church, you couldn't. My passion drives me.

I want to know Jesus, and how to do that, i read the Bible by myself with inner hunger, and the Bible began to speak back to me. I began getting inside to the words which to others are just words.

You can't really read the Bible and not be a Christian.

Pls, go easy with your pastors this, your pastors that,

I know Jesus for myself.

corrections the first missionaries in Nigeria were the Catholics who came with Portuguese traders of pepper not slave trade, they established mission in Benin were cut short after the traders ended there Nigerian voyage.


the Portuguese slavers and the Spanish conquerors were different from the missionaries. The Portuguese government did slave trade and the Spanish conquered so did the Protestant England and Germany, while the church sent missionaries. it is again silly to confuse the missionaries with the conquerors.

even your encyclopedia will confirm that your history is a remix.

analice107:
Lolzzz, Listen, the Apostasy house will survive till Christ Comes. Do you think it's a coincidence? She is the LovePeddler, Babylon the Great, the Great LovePeddler who will gather the whole earth and galvanize them under one world church to worship the Beast.

It's beginning to happen, follow up the antecedents of your Popes especially Francis. The guy just declared the One World Government, Urging America to flag it up. The platform upon which the Antichrist shall stand to rule the entire earth in due time .

The office of the Pope shall be the Office of the False Prophet to the Antichrist. He will converge the world leaders to embrace the Beast.

Check out what the Pope is up to now. We are watching you guys.

what is the pope up to... reminds me of the term accuser of the brethren.

DoctorAlien:
The Catholic Church did not write any part of the Bible. Moreover, even before the council you guys like to claim decided the Canon of the Bible sat, the Canon of the Bible had pretty much been set by concensus of use. How can you claim that the Catholic Church "gave the Bible to the world" with quotes like this? "Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies... pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means." The encyclical Quanta Cura Issued by Pope Pius IX, December 6, 1866



Again, I say that it would be credulous of anyone to believe that Paul never thought that his letters would be used as guidance by the churches, or that the apostles would write books which the churches would find useful. Don'the make it look like the Catholic Church prescribed to us the books in the Bible now. These books were in use before Constantine founded the Catholic Church.

please can you name the Christians before Constantine who used your exact current bible and weren't Catholics.

analice107:
Guy, that claim will never give you salvation. That Catholic Church complied the Bible will never give any Catholic Salvation.

When you die, Jesus won't ask you if you belonged to a church which complied the Bible, What will be required of you will be the New Nature in Christ. Do you have it?

Are you Saved, Transformed, Sanctified, and Renewed? Is your name written in the Book of Life? If you meet Jesus today, will He say to you, 'Come my faithful servant and enter into my rest?', if not, sorry. All these noise here is a waste of time.

you guys opened a thread about Catholic church and the Bible and after refuting it this is what you are talking about?

did a Catholic open this thread? or rather you prefer Catholics keep quite while you guys accuse us of heaven and earth.


Lastly the claim is important because it reminds us who the scripture was bequeathed to, who is the early church, and who has the spirit of God as promised by Christ for all generation as she shows when she decided the canon.

analice107:
If the anointing of the Apostle's Successors were and are on the priests of the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church would have been about Jesus, not about Mary and using Jesus as a supplement or an after thought.

Mary is a god in Catholic Church. Funny enough
She was never even mentioned after the death of Christ. She never even demanded any special attention or commendation as a mother of the Master.

Do you remember she served, (took care of feeding and others welfare things) of Christ like the other women did? She was never given a special place amongst the brethren, where did the Catholic Church got the veneration of Mary from? The Apostles never adulated her, if they did and then passed it down, pls show me.

I have noticed that whenever you guys run out of point you jump into attacking mary or something else. if you ever attended a Catholic mass you would have known who Catholics worship, I also know that you have been corrected of such silly accusation severally but you prefer to play dumb. of course Mary served, I also remember Jesus says the greater amongst you shall be others servants. so greatness in the kingdom isn't according to the pastor with private jet, it is according to service and it is a thing of joy that Mary served.

again the Catholic faith proves that truly she is from the apostles even in her understanding of Mary. for we believe that Mary a creature like us became mother of the redeemer and scriptures bear witness to her perpetual honor, when the spirit inspired Luke to record her prophecy "behold from hence forth all age will call me blessed". This perpetual honor we continue to see in every century after among the successors of the apostles.

Do you respect the words of the Clergy outside the Catholic Church Church? Why then do you taunt me with 'What your pastor says', everytime. And it just happens that, every word which proceeds from Oyedepos mouth, has a scripture behind it. The Man is totally about the Scriptures. He is a Walking Talking Bible. I'm a student of the word, and will never be there if the word wasn't there.

oh! I don't respect the words of 20 century church founders who lay churches different from the apostolic ones or abide 15th century heresy unknown in the historic church. I don't respect those who claim to be bishops and can't show which successor of the apostle appointed them to such office or ordained them. I take such people with a grain of salt and analyse their statement separately.

I do respect some non Catholic clergy, mainly eastern Orthodox clergymen, they hold the apostolic faith most times and are truly historic successors of the apostles with certain teaching authority.

Then there are other non Catholic clergy I pity or at times admire, they were tutored in the Protestant Faith and have tried to decipher the truth as best they can through scripture. only circumstances and invincible bias prevent them from the fullness of Truth.

Yeah right, Christ called you into ministry to rely ona General Knowledge rather than the Wisdom of the Holy Spirit which comes solely from the scriptures. I know, it's that general knowledge that has filled the whole place with the pagan traditions of Rome. Yeah i know that.

When it come to spiritual things I am happy to rely on the holy spirit as he guides the church the body of Christ and scripture.


in history general knowledge becomes important so as not to make the silly king Henry remix you earlier made.

Lolzzz, You talk about history but you forget we sef can read this history. Did the Catholic take the Gospel to the world for the sake of saving souls Christ died for, wasn't it to conquer lands in the name of Rome and for Rome?

I already addressed this but I guess you do selective reading, so you can ask what has already been answered.


the Roman Church never raised armies except during the crusades which defended Christians. it sent missionaries who preached Christ.

Themandator:
The verse of the scripture you quoted doesn't support what you are explaining Or defending: "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (Jam 5:16)

That scripture was addressing the rich and their ways and attitude... Rather than complain against one another he admonished they pray and confess their faults to one another ....One another is used when when you have more than two people involved ..... He was addressing a congregation. It was like reconciling a community and bringing back brotherhood ... James wasn't asking them to go to a priest or the apostles.


Here is the James 5 from 9 to 16

"Do not complain against one another, my friends, so that God will not judge you. The Judge is near, ready to appear. My friends, remember the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. Take them as examples of patient endurance under suffering. We call them happy because they endured. You have heard of Job's patience, and you know how the Lord provided for him in the end. For the Lord is full of mercy and compassion. Above all, my friends, do not use an oath when you make a promise. Do not swear by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Say only "Yes" when you mean yes, and "No" when you mean no, and then you will not come under God's judgment. Are any among you in trouble? They should pray. Are any among you happy? They should sing praises. Are any among you sick? They should send for the church elders, who will pray for them and rub olive oil on them in the name of the Lord. This prayer made in faith will heal the sick; the Lord will restore them to health, and the sins they have committed will be forgiven. So then, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you will be healed. The prayer of a good person has a powerful effect." (Jam 5:9-16)

here it seem you are the one who ignored the immediate context. he actually ended the issue of the rich,he then moved on to judgements, before finally he says if you are happy sing praise but if any is sick call the presbyter let him be anointed and prayer over if he is in sin he will be forgiven, and for the avoidance of doubt as to how these prayer for forgiveness happens it says "THEREFORE confess your sins one to another". it is a pity it isn't clear to you since you have been taught in a 20th century church that has no links to historic Christianity but any 1st or 2nd or 3rd century Christian who the letter was addressed to will immediately understand it since confession of that nature is practiced in their churches, with their presbyter and bishop.

John 20:23 is not what you have concluded it to be. Jesus Christ didn't come to cause confusion ... What he meant when he made that state he already demonstrated so your kind don't run off with the wrong idea...


Here are examples of the sins you forgive are forgiven in heaven by the Lord Jesus Christ

1. "Is it easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? I will prove to you, then, that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." So he said to the paralyzed man, "Get up, pick up your bed, and go home!" The man got up and went home." (Mat 9:5-7)


2. "Because of the crowd, however, they could find no way to take him in. So they carried him up on the roof, made an opening in the tiles, and let him down on his bed into the middle of the group in front of Jesus. When Jesus saw how much faith they had, he said to the man, "Your sins are forgiven, my friend." The teachers of the Law and the Pharisees began to say to themselves, "Who is this man who speaks such blasphemy! God is the only one who can forgive sins!" Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Why do you think such things? Is it easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'?" (Luk 5:19-23)



The authority Jesu gave them in John 20:23 was sealed and hen he said in Mark 16:17: these signs shall follow them that believe , in my name they shall....... This was exactly what Jesus meant when he said the sins you forgive ... He was addressing deliverance from afflictions or infirmities caused by disobedience to God .... Everytime he forgave sins you could see tangible evidence of deliverance from punishment

He wasn't telling them to start hearing people sins or faults and giving out prayer like drug from pharmacy


The Bible is written for instructions and guide ... It is a book of examples ... Do it the exact way if is in the Bible to get the result they got.... Any other way is man made and and therefore , religion which is man's personal idea of how to please God.

All the so called benefits of confession to a priest you listed is neither here nor there... You don't break the hold of sin through strategy but by walk with the Joly spirit.

Agqin, I repeat , the one I have offended is the one to hear my apologies and then forgive me ... We all have equal fellowship with God as our Father
Example of sicknes, as listed in Naira land today : https://www.nairaland.com/4090683/benue-woman-marries-18-husbands


Thank you

it is true that Jesus forgave sin especially when he healed, and yes I agree that His apostles have the power to forgive sin that cause illnesses but John 20 doesn't say, If you are healing people whatever sins you forgive are forgiven.

there is no limitation to that authority as you seem to artificially input, Jesus says whatsoever sin you forgive are forgiven... no but no "only during healing, that is your own idea and it is a modern day heresy are no early Christian interpreted the passage with such limits.

moreso in 2cor 2:10 we see Paul making use of his authority to forgive with the authority and power of Jesus and it isn't about healing of physical illness.

New Living Translation
When you forgive this man, I forgive him,
too. And when I forgive whatever needs to
be forgiven, I do so with Christ's authority
for your benefit,


Douay-Rheims Bible
And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I
also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have
pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I
done it in the person of Christ.