₦airaland Forum

Horlufemi:
Science has stopped looking for the origin of life. No God in science is more important than finding the origin of life. They assume then make the assumptions law any other option is a taboo. That's how they become complacent

like my friend sciencewatch says .....science is good when apply to material things but it has serious limitations when when apply to moral, ethics or any thing consider supernatural by human

hopefulLandlord:
Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

Conclusion: Therefore, the universe had a cause

can you elucidate on the second premise?

pls answer the question..... I posted to you just like I did to yours......

hopefulLandlord:
Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

Conclusion: Therefore, the universe had a cause

can you elucidate on the second premise?

according to science explanation, the universe was sparked by a process called borno production from the explanation of the big bang....


Science is studying the smoke trigger by the gun shoot and not the shooter itself.....



Am interested in a theory above science.....the shooters itself

hopefulLandlord:
I can give you examples of people of the past using what they didn't know or understand as proof of god; thunder, ground shakes, rainfall, wind, sickness etc were used to "prove" the existence of god at the time but as we grew more in knowledge people stopped using that to argue for god and now we've arrived at "DNA" such as the one OP is talking about, he sees the gap and plugs god in the hole

When Isaac Newton reached the limit of his ability to describe the universe, he attributed what he did not know to god. God seems always to be just beyond the horizon of knowledge, is someplace that we can't yet see. God is an ever receding idea, pushed just a little bit further out with every new discovery. It is the best excuse in the world to quit thinking.



pay attention to the quote below which was made at a time when people regarded epilepsy to be something divine

People think that epilepsy is divine simply because they don't have any idea what causes epilepsy. But I believe that someday we will understand what causes epilepsy, and at that moment, we will cease to believe that it's divine. And so it is with everything in the universe.

Hippocrates

this cosmologist puts it succinctly

Does it mean, if you don’t understand something, and the community of scientists don’t understand it, that means God did it? Is that how you want to play this game? Because if it is, here’s a list of things in the past that the scientists at the time didn't understand [and now we do understand] […]. If that’s how you want to invoke your evidence for God, then God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance that’s getting smaller and smaller and smaller as time moves on — so just be ready for that to happen, if that’s how you want to come at the problem.

Neil deGrasse Tyson

God was invented to explain mystery. God is always invented to explain those things that you do not understand. Now, when you finally discover how something works, you get some laws which you're taking away from God; you don't need him anymore. But you need him for the other mysteries. So therefore you leave him to create the universe because we haven't figured that out yet; you need him for understanding those things which you don't believe the laws will explain, such as consciousness , or why you only live to a certain length of time — life and death — stuff like that. God is always associated with those things that you do not understand. Therefore I don't think that the laws can be considered to be like God because they have been figured out.

Richard Feynman

Am very interested in this topic .......but since you wish to deviate a little to the God of the gap argument.... Let have a discussion.....


You are commiting argumentun ad furious fallacy...in English it means argument of the future fallacy....Therefore I will coined a new word for any atheists who accuse believer on God of the gap fallacy....the word shall be known as ignorance of the Gap....

The arguments for the existence of God such as Cosmological Argument, the Teleological Argument, etc. are all DEDUCTIVE arguments. This means that the premises are established by what we do know, rather than what we don’t know. If the premises were all based off of what we don’t know, then the deductive argument would be invalid because all of the premises would be controversial.

For example with cosmological Argument, we use what we do know to develop the following premises:

Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.

Conclusion: Therefore, the universe had a cause




Unlike the atheists who are hypocritical in their accusations. When confronted with the evidence of the existence of God using deductive arguments the atheists will say “I don’t know is a valid answer!” though it is, but it is not sound for any rational atheist that has conclude believe of God is illogical....


Let me give you example, my culture teaches life begin on water. Science later find evidence... My culture teaches that there is energy force on every nature... The thunder, the flower ,and the rock...this is another evidence that has been claimed by scientists...



Let me ask you a question.... Do you rely on science as evidence to disprove or proof the existence of God?

bilard:
Hello my fellow Nairalanders,
Please I need your advice,I am an OND holder and would like to know which is better to pursue, a HND in Computer Engineering from Yabatech or a Bsc in Computer Science from National Open University of Nigeria (NOUN).

Your question has another silent question.... Which is NOUN degree recognised?.. Am sure, you will not ask this question if it is unilag Bsc vs yabatech HND....


Noun degree has the same value with any accredited Nigeria uni.....the difference is only in the mode of instruction.......you can use noun degree to apply for master in unilag if you so wish.....do not waste your time bro....


Bsc stand out above HND any day, ,any time....

Ranchhoddas:
This is the first thing I've read from you that has a semblance of sense.

But tell me; why would the Jews feel guilt at killing their Messiah when the Messiah already planned to come and be killed. Is it really guilt if it was already scripted?

study sciencewatch post very well...he do make a lot of sense.....may be you do not like his approach..... The guy is actually smart....

ScienceWatch:
Thanks. Our education systems has been engineered to leave us with out emotional/spiritual intelligence.

hmmmmmm..this is absolutely true..especially in this part of the continent I live.

ScienceWatch:
Thanks. Our education systems has been engineered to leave us with out emotional/spiritual intelligence.

hmmmmmm..this is absolutely true..

ScienceWatch:
Thanks. Our education systems has been engineered to leave us with out emotional/spiritual intelligence.

If the Akindom is serious, he has to learn how to frame questions correctly if he is to secure correct answers. Eighteenth-century chemists lost themselves in the falsity of the Phlogiston theory because they asked "What special substance is involved in the process of burning?"
instead of asking, "What kind of process is burning?"

Language must be adjusted to fit the pursuit of truth, and not vice versa. Words which carry no meaning must be ruthlessly abandoned. Words which carry false meaning must be corrected. Words which carry ambiguous meaning must be sharply clarified.

Words which pretend to represent fact but really represent imagination must be revealed for what they are. All such words hold the budding truth seeker in chains and limit the field of his enquiry until he separate the conceptual reality of their meanings from the actual reality and the fictitious significance from the real significance.

The clarity of words ultimate meanings is a necessary stage in the revelation of ultimate truth, because it involves the wholesale
reconstruction of thought.

word

ScienceWatch:
Lol you have a highly developed intellect Vaxx.

Logic serves its purpose when applied to material things and has serious limitations when used to examine the deeper meanings of Ethics, morality and spirit.

I salute your interpretation........ This is deep......

ScienceWatch:
I lift up my sword to salute Ysyowel. The OP seems oblivious of the fact that humans can use three mental faculties to think; the lowest is Logic, then Reason and finally the highest faculty is Intuition.

n.

can you enlight me more on logic, intuition and reasons

analice107:
When this guy began, i was shocked to see the names he called me. Funny enougj, just like he is doing in this thread, he was using three monikers at once to insult me. I had never seen those monikers before, until a guy who is good at uncovering who is behind monikers busted him in a thread he came after me again, then i knew who he was and that all the monikers coming after me were his.

This twerp here copied one of my pictures which was posted in this forum by Otem and created a WhatsApp account and trumped up a conversation with himself making it seem like i was propositioning a guy for a relationship, he opened a thread here and posted the screen shuts.

The damaged goods is obsessed with me. When he knows he can't be my Friend, he turn to a foe.

I hear he does the same with girls in Romance Section. He even met offline with some girls whom he dated, he came on Nairaland when he couldn't make more money out of the girls posting the WhatsApp chats they had. Posting their pictures, photoshopping pictures just to blackmail.

Just watch and note his monikers, you'll never find him in a conversation. When he comes in is to insult and cause chaos.
God knows, I didn't contribute anything to him being damaged.

I feel you.....but I implore you to be a change agent....

analice107:
That gnat has three monikers in here, he follows me about with insults. Every thread i enter is insults as if i'm responsible for his damaged life.

we should all fight cyber bulling....... It is not healthy

Is nairaland an insult contesting ground? This is absolutely abnormal....

Interesting.........

OtemSapien:
Nairaland is anti-everything my guy. It is Antichristian because of the presence of the muslims, atheists and irreligious people. It's anti-muslims because of the Christians and the irreligious people in it. It is anti-myself because of the Christians, Muslims and some scammers on it. It is anti-athiests because of the Christians , Muslims and some babalawos in it.

If we should go on and on, I will say it is anti-buhari, anti-gej, Antichrist, anti Muhammed, anti daddy freeze, anti-anything.

So Op, don't make it seem as if the Christians are the only people being opposed in here. We all oppose one another and that shouldn't be an issue.

I like the way you balance it.......

Hati13:
Learning a lot from your explanation. If I may ask, what is the reason for you to believe in reincarnation? Is it because of traditional or scientific?

I've seen some documentaries on ppl who are telling their past life. You are a believer in reincarnation, but said we won't remember the past. So what's your say to this?

let me be sincere with you.... My believe in reincarnation is very much heavily related to dogma and not necessarily scientific.... Well it it is not far from logic and scientific methods (experiment)....

Ifa teachings explain that we are actually spirits inside human bodies. Our true home is a specific esoteric space in the universe, in the spirit world. There are literally thousands of spiritual realms existing in the spirit world, (all of us), spend most of our time in these realms. The time we spend as human beings on Earth is just a fraction of this time. (time is infinite and spirit never die


How will you explain these theories?

Baby born with talented skills like drawing, singing , swimming etc without learning it.....people call it inborn talent.... But I call it element of reincarnation....


What about identical twins. ...identical twins are a result of splited egg...look at the difference in their temperaments.....so many example i can give..



Why should we remember our past? Old things had pass away and all things has become new....our past may likely torment us....

Jahsam:
There is also Christ outside of Christendom and Islam. I’m trying to bring that universal understanding here.

I can’t force the beliefs to merge but I can explain how it makes sense to me, from a personal, subjective point of view. For those that care to think of it this way; this is how Christ came to me.

I always thought it was incongruous to believe that Jesus died or that he was sent to die for anyone. It didn’t make sense and never sat well with me. I prayed and asked for understanding and continued to have thoughts about the metaphysical nature of that “death” and came to the conclusion that Christ, the force that was with Jesus, simply cannot die. For me, that was and is the dark heart of the Bible, particularly for those that believe Jesus is God. For me, it’s blasphemous for one to think they can kill God. It’s a logical impossibility and smacks of human hubris and pride. I always knew Jesus was a figure in Islam as well so it was with much surprise that I read the verse which states;

“And for their saying, "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah." In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.”

From An-Nisa 4:157

That I had reached this conclusion before reading the Quran is proof enough for me. Something greater than I was working. I’ve also take. It to God in my prayers. Being a Christian has been part of my life for almost all of my life. It isn’t simply an identity that one can erase or plaster over with different religions. Much like how I believe Christ did not in fact die on the cross. Christ also cannot be killed in my heart. In whatever form Christ comes to me, I have to engage with and work with it. It’s like asking me to stop breathing.

So, no matter what label I ascribe to myself Christ and God continue to operate free from the bounds of what we think we know.

You already set a conclusion before the research.... That make your own research biased.

You absolutely believe you are right because Qur'an later agree with your perspective.......no qualms .......


According to 1 Corinthian 15 vs 14....says if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless so is our faith...which actually means the fundamental teaching of christanity rely heavily on the crucifixion ...therefore your are not a Christian if your believe system does not synchronised with the teaching of Paul.

You are treating Christ as a single subject nstead of the universal agree word.... Jesus Christ......what prompt this perspective?



Mind you I do not subscribed to Quran and biblical teaching...

Jahsam:
Muslims believe in Jesus as well. I never really left the church. I went to Islam because there was more my soul was yearning for but even then, I went with Christ, I stayed there with Christ and believe it or not, Christ continues to work through Islam.

The two are not separate for me. Nothing, no spiritual path that I have encountered has ever been so separate from another that a grain of truth can not be found.

So, if I were to be paradoxical; I’d say that I’m Muslim at heart but my expression of my faith fundamentally differs from what my Arabic praying brothers and sisters are engaged in.

Mine is an Indigenous form of Islam. Christ is very comfortable in it.

Sorry for the long and meandering answer to your question but it isn’t something that can be explained in one post. Hence why I want to keep this thread going for as long as possible.

The concept of Christ in Christendom is different from Islamic perspective.... How are you trying to merge this dogma together?

I read one of your thread where you state your journey from christain to muslim....are you back to church again? If so why?

vivie01:
You brought me here


which in other words is your soul, a man is composed of spirit, soul and body; the soul is the real you.

you are answering this question base on dogma( religious believe) not to abuse science and logic... I will defined soul , as human brain while spirit as energy.. .when the brain dies, it is assume human has lost his soul but the spirit can't die as it is an energy.... Energy can not be created nor destroy.... Human are spiritual being rather than soul being....

Hati13:
Not good I guess

Dumb but much smarter than conscious mind,,, concept activation and primitive association learning could occur unconsciously why anything complex requiring flexible responding or higher mental process couldn't.... To what extent are human aware of and were able to report the true causes of their behavior? The simple answer is not very welll.....in a nutshell ,actions preceed reflection...

In reality your conscious mind is just the connection between the “real you” and your interaction with physical reality, environment etc. As such, your conscious mind cannot actually display something that is not a part of you. But neither can it display all parts of you in any given moment.

Hati13:
How can your unconscious mind is the real you? It doesn't make sense. The real you is your unique memories and personal traits like you said. This is why when someone brain is damaged to the point of him/her losing her entire memory and behavior, the previous he/she doesn't exist anymore.

Your claim is a belief which is supported by concert evidence. But I respect it since I've also my own belief on other things.

Your belief may be real or not, but what matters is you believe in it and it will affect your life just like you want it to be.

By the way, me and you have also communicated previously and I may not always agreed with you, but I like the way you try to explain things.

I will proof it to you that your unconscious mind is the real you.....but before then answer this question..How good is the mind at extracting meaning from stimuli of which one is not consciously aware?

shervydman:
Pls,Mr vaxx......can u elaborate more on the emboldened statements cos incarnation and re-incarnation are falsified doctrines. Not scientifically or religiously proven. It's not a fact but fallacy in my humble opinion.

though it might not have enough scientific details now.....but there is actual scientific hypothesis and acceptance of logic ....go through this link I created, you may comment here if you doubt it..


Though my own version is diffrent from the hindu and budha.....it is purely cultural to my tribe .....Yoruba

...https://www.nairaland.com/4068046/yoruba-version-life-after-death

Hati13:
But what makes you you is your memories and consciousness, so when you die, those 2 things will cease to exist for eternal.

If you believe in reincarnation, then you believe also you was alive, before the current you was born. But you can't remember it, since your current memories and consciousness are unique.

One life is enough. Good things are special to us, because they have their limits. And you didn't mind for not existing before you was born, so you will also not mind for not existing after your death. This is something that makes me feel happy and others also should feel like this (at least from my perspective).

you unconscious mind is the real you....it is a mixture of your personal traits ,life experience and interactions with the universe...
You can't remember the past because you didn't bring your brain with you. You died, your brain died, and there goes your memories (more or less).

This is the good news! You get to start this new life completely fresh, without worrying about all the traumatic experiences you had in your previous lives. Imagine if you carried with you in each life that terrible memory from 10,000 BC when you were swallow by a big snake while hunting ..... Some things are really better off forgotten.



your existence in this life is very important and you have to take care of it....therefore I urge you to believe in reincarnation.... If you take it as a fact rather than wishful thinking .... You will be .....


Careful indeed not to incur new bad karma by not creating conflicts or pain for others. Also taking the bad karma you have received in this life with a grain of salt.


Generous in incurring good karma by assisting others, especially with spiritual development (i.e. self-knowledge, mastering virtues

Work smart to accumulate much wealth ,you will come back to enjoy.......and so many benefit..

hopefulLandlord:
I can only coin a new term for you "Agnostic Dystheist"

you think there's probably no god but you can't know for sure (Agnosticism) but if a god exists then he/she/it is a wicked one (Dystheism)

this one got me crackling.... Agnostic dystheism....I like your coinage...

Haiti13 ........ if you do not believe in life after death, you are also likely not to believe in God....

My argument......concept of peace and human value is useless without the concept of hereafter.....

I strongly believe in reincarnation.....


If a process can cause a process to produce zygote which lead to a foetus and then to the final stage of human development..

What is stopping the same process from repeating it again in whatever form he cares....


life after death does not fall under the jurisdiction of science or (any observable evidence), as science and observable evidence is concerned only with classification and analysis of sense data.

Moreover, man has been busy with scientific inquiries and research, in the modern sense of the term, only for the last few centuries, while he has been familiar with the concept of life after death since time immemorial.


Almost every religion with the concept of God called their people to worship God and to believe in life after death. Mine explicitly talk about reincarnation.that even an iota of doubt in it meant denying God and made all other beliefs meaningless...

UmarIbnShittu:
ah dey cry for ur ignorance guy

lol......black Muslim.....

musicwriter:
I do not need further explanation since you a least acknowledge there were swords, though you continue to defend religion. But, I' am not interested in helping any religion. I go for non-religious biased sources.

Before Islam got to Malaysia, Indonesia, was already when you had relative calm, but it had its own share of conflicts. As I said ealier, there was storm before the calm.

Below is another documentary specifically on the crusades of both Christianity and Islam. This is not a movie. Documentaries are well researched historical accounts. There're countless examples of Christians and muslims committing serious crimes against people who didn't believe what they believe, so, get them from both documentaries. There's nothing I can do, if you can't watch them.

Video 2. See the crusades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11nI2-s9glI

I try as much not to balance history with falsehood....

Crusader war was caused base on political and economic resons and not religious base

Tell me the Islamic religious conflict in Malaysia and Indonesia...

I gave you a question in my post ....do you read it


Tell me any religious motivated war you aware of?

If you can answer this geniuenly, we will have a fine discussion...but if not there is nothing much I can do...

Hope you read my post with an open mind

UmarIbnShittu:
even jinns too. will question too since they've got IQ
I used man because we're superior to them

stop deceiving yourself...... Nothing like that will take place....

UmarIbnShittu:
yes and it doesn't matter whether you believe it or not so far as you came through Adam(AS) you will be questioned only if you are animal then you are exempted

what if you are jinni that do not came from adam?

So you believe in mukir and nakir