₦airaland Forum

Solofresh2:
Nigerians are always quick to criticize people even when they know nothing about the incident.
A lot of people bashing this woman here knows nothing about this incident but someone giving info about the incident is Being bashed.
The fact that the boy was bullied and killed doesn't make him a saint either.Who knows if he might have done worst

You are one of those that always find a way to blame the victim.
How do you deem it reasonable that an 11 year old boy that entered secondary school less than 4 months ago agreed to join cult? Does an 11 year old even understand what cultism is? (Even if we assume that aunty kemi is telling the truty).
A boy that has been proven to be serially bullied, a boy that was moved to a different Hall just after one term because of bullying, is the one you are accusing of not being a saint. OK, he is a devil. Are you happy now?

DeepSight:
I see you are the one who has to resort to childish pictures.
Low IQ? You cant even retain a consistent concept of the word "nothingness" or "nothing."

How can we expect you to understand "something?"

You actually write that "objects and particles" are nothing, and expect to be taken seriously, simply because you mention the name of one clown who is "acclaimed" as a scientist.
Go and sleep my brother.

Capital olodo.

A001:
Too many low IQ members on Nairaland who can't understand simple statements written in simple English.

You guys cut it out. Don't spoil this thread. We have been conducting ourselves creditably before now. Don't let us degenerate into insults and intolerance just because of differences in beliefs and opinions like our theist counterparts.

johnydon22:
The universe is not nearly as disorganized as you are passing it out to be, not even remotely.

There is a pattern, there is an order, that is why humans can study the universe and can predict its future. You cannot predict or study randomness, the universe on the other hand is far from being disorganized. It is actually a very ordered place.

Your statement that only a few planets contain life is a very bold one for someone who is a member of a specie that cannot even leave their solar system yet.

And about the earth under constant threat but not yet destroyed, even that is not an accident. The solar system is pretty much stabilized as opposed to its otherwise chaotic past, much like an iron cast cools and stabilizes. Presently, most meteor that make it into the system are pulled in by the gravitational influence of Gas giants like Jupiter and Saturn keeping the interior planets relatively free of meteors, not to talk of life ending collisions.

You are talking like Einstein when he posited "God does not play dice with the universe". He had since been proved to be wrong, as Niels Bohr's quantum theory (randomness) rules on the subatomic scale. No one can predict the future of the universe. All we have are speculations.

The universe is indeed a very random, violent and mysterious place. With stars and galaxies colliding, black holes swallowing up whole galaxies, exploding stars with enough energy to affect the whole galaxy, and then there is the issue of dark energy and matter which makes up over 95% of the observable universe.

I know there might be a few planet out there capable of sustaining life, but I doubt there would be many. Why? Because the conditions for life is so narrow and specific that it can only be present in a highly limited number of stars and planets. For example, the star must be of a certain size and stability to allow life start and evolve, the star must be at a certain distance from its star to allow water exist in 3 states (Water is essential for life) ,the orbit of the planet must not be too eccentric to allow narrow range of temperatures, the planet must have an iron core and be rotating to produce magnetic shield to protect against radiation and high energy particles from its sun. These conditions are numerous and without just one of these conditions being met life cannot start.
Even if we have a few million planets capable of sustaining life, that is still a huge waste of resources considering there are trillions of galaxies each with trillions of suns.

I agree with you that the solar system has stabilized over time and the giant planets, mostly jupiter takes the hits for us. Still I agree with HellVictorinho3 that the earth might have been hit by life eliminating impacts in the past that must has destroyed all of life, and life had to start all over again. There is a theory known as the Giant-impact hypothesis, whereby it is postulated that our moon was created as a result of a huge object colliding with the earth, and breaking a chunk off.

HellVictorinho3:
A mind cannot be so disorganized towards making something as twisted as the universe...



The universe is just another thing.. but it's too twisted to be the work of a mind.

That's true. The universe is a very disorganized, chaotic and wasteful place. I still fail to understand the purpose. Imagine billions and billions of desolate planets with only one or a few with life. And even the few with life always at the risk of annihilation from cosmic debris. The earth has been lucky in that even thought it is always under constant threat, no collision has at yet wiped out all of life.

OLDESTWARRIBOY:


And so?? Malaria kills more than Covid-19. When will they take Malaria serious?.

Why will they take Malaria series? Do malaria infect or kill them? Why can we take Malaria serious and look for our own solution?

We always act like babies with entitlement mentality and expect others to help us solve our own problems.

Ordinary covid vaccine we cannot make and then begin to cry that they refuse to dash us their vaccines.

benalvino3:
Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy: If you "get vaccinated and boosted. You use testing judiciously before you gather, you gather in well-ventilated spaces and use masks whenever you can in public indoor spaces, your risk can be quite low and your holidays can be quite fulfilling.”

With statement like this from the socalled professionals who calls the shots... Why would anyone not be skeptical in taking the jabs?

Even after the vax and boosted, you still have to live like you were not vaxxed at all. What's the point then?

I am honestly getting passed of at you guys. OK what do you suggest we do to contain the virus? Lock down, you guys say no. Get vaccinated, you guys cry foul. Wear masks, you guys start a riot. You attack every professional, authority or government trying to take any action at all towards containing the virus.

You guys are just anarchists. You want to see chaos and people die so you can come back and accuse the governments you hate of not doing enough.

Crystyano:
You were also surprised to learn what you just discovered as false concerning the electric bulb...

I don't understand what you mean. But I learnt that the energy propagated by an electric wire or an electric charge is in the electric field at right angle to the wire and not through the wires itself

What was true is now false to you..

Not necessarily. My understanding of cause and effect changed. Just like my perception of the cause and effects of gravity changed from secondary school to university.

Besides,if you don't really know what an electron is,you shouldn't use the word at all...

Even though we don't know what an electron really is, we can see and measure it's effects, we can see it's interactions with other fundamental particles. We have a string theory among other theories that tries to accurately describe the electron along with other fundamental particles.

If you are not sure of the nature of anything,then you shouldn't say anything at all....

As I said, we perceive and interact with nature. The problem is attempting to understand the nature of what we perceive and interact with.

But I will leave that to you....



I seriously need your financial assistance...... you can ask questions ........ it's do or die...... basically...

Once again. Sorry can't help now.

Crystyano:
The material things without a cause have no beginning...... Actually ,for the things with a cause to exist,..there must be things without a cause...

The material things including the universe with a cause are arrangements of the material things without a cause...


The only immaterial thing without a cause is existence itself...



Existence is beyond your existence.....


Existence is the property of something (unspecific) to exist...,.

There's no limit to the property of something (unspecific) to exist....

There's no limit to things(specific) that exist.....



Anyway, I seriously need your financial assistance..... you can ask any question about my situation..... I need it urgently and seriously...... thanks...

Interesting speculations. I am trying to wrap my head around it.

Sorry, I can't be of assistance right now. I am neck deep, in fact drowning in obligations right now. I have loads of family - both nuclear and extended family obligations.
I also have loads of end of year obligations to staff and clients. You know how it is by this time of the year. I don't even know how I will cope yet. Money don't seem to have any value anymore

I need to add one more stream of income next year to be able to cope. At the moment, I am studying forex trading.

DeepSight:
Saying that we do not know the cause of something is different from saying that therefore, things may be causeless.

I believe that on a more fundamental level, saying a thing is causeless and saying we don't know the cause of a thing means practically the same thing. Because on a fundamental level we don't know the cause of anything. For example we don't know the true nature of the 4 fundamental forces of nature - electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong force, before we even start talking of what caused them.

There are indeed "things" that are causeless, but those are infinite and eternal "things." Self-existent "things." They are immaterial "things." They are not the "things" of this finite material realm.

The difference between material things and immaterial things is our perception. Things we can perceive with our senses and instruments, we term material, things we cannot we term immaterial. But then ability to measure starts getting complicated on a fundamental level.

Hence I have striven in this thread to advocate agnosticism. I don't know if you have been following the thread: but I came in at at point where a poster was stridently criticizing the agnostic position which simply declares " I don't know." I have been striving in this thread to justify that position as the most honest position we can take. That poster, on the contrary, seeks to assert that while we can be agnostic on existence generally, once it comes to God or gods, we must be positively certain that they do not and cannot exist. I am simply telling him that we must remain agnostic on that too. I have allowed the exception that some religious notions of God can be discountenanced as they are ontologically contradictory.

there is little difference between the agnostic and the atheist. A theist makes the proposition that his God - Thor, Zeus, Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, olodumare, etc is the one true God and creator of the universe. The atheist say it's not possible for any of them to the the creator of the immense universe. The agnostic say he does not know whether any of them is the creator of the whole universe. Some theist argue that one of them or something must have created the universe because the universe can't cause itself. Atheist respond that the first cause must have caused itself. And the argument goes round and round in circles.

Note that the theist God's are always created in the image of it's creator's. Jewish people create Jewish looking gids, Greek people create Greek Gods and Yoruba people create Yoruba Gods. If Dogs were to believe in God, that God will be in the image (and language) of of the breed of Dog that created it.

All this is speculation - and speculation without any grounds for that matter.

Everyone is speculating. We don't know the true nature of matter or the universe. We can only speculate. We don't actually know what gravity is, what electricity is, what electron is, etc. I was surprised just recently to learn that the energy that lights up your light bulb or drive your appliances don't flow inside the wire but in a field perpendicular to the wires.

That whatever begins to exist has a cause (or trigger) only stands to reason. Anything else will amount to advocating magic.

Existence itself is magic

DeepSight:
Fairly straightforward logic good sir: and in this I draw from the premise of the Kalam Cosmological Argument which asserts that whatever begins to exist has a cause. Not only is this intuitively true, it is also self evidently true. A thing which commences, or begins, necessarily is prompted or triggered. And it could not be so prompted or triggered by itself: hence we deduce that it is so prompted or triggered by something beyond itself.

This is all that transcendence here refers to. Something beyond the thing which commences or begins.

You my friend is engaging in what is called Fallacy of False Cause. We don't know that whatever begins to exist has a cause. Even in our real everyday world, we don't know what causes an atom to disintegrate. We don't know what causes the half life of a radioactive element to remain constant. We also don't know what causes a particular atom to decide to disintegrate out of the other billions of atoms.

We don't know the beginning of existence. Scientist have been able to speculate the beginning of this universe, but we have no way of speculating the beginning of everything. The same scientists tell us that this present universe might be just one of a continuous cycle of big bangs and big crunches. And there might even a multiverse (many other universeses)

So your assumption that whatever begins to exist has a cause is pure speculation and might not be true. Therefore your conclusion based on that assumption also might not be true.

Amos1423:
It is quite sad how hypocritical Nigerians are, all over the news these days everyone is talking about just one kid who is probably from a well to do family. Government is getting to talk about it, in fact all a cross the country, this is the trending issue on everyones lip but everyday in this country, children because of one thing or the other gets to die all resulting to poverty, lack of access to good medical facilities but the dowen kid is what everyone is showing pity regardless of the latter. We Nigerians deserve the government we get cause we are just nothing more than them.

A kid was killed during the endsars period and all of a sudden those who were busy advocating for justice all over social media have all gone silent, where then is the hypocrisy not in?

All over the country, kids are suffering, going through child labor, underfed, subjected to abuses but all these has become a norm but because the Dowen kid had access to social media and has enough influence for this to go viral.

How many of us in the different streets we live not see atleast one or two kids are all victims of abuses but we looked away cause it's a norm for poor people to suffer?

How many of us parents here take proper care of our children? When last did your child feel loved by you?

Hypocrites everywhere!!!

People are free to advocate for whatsoever they wish. After all this is a free country. If you are so interested in advocating for poor underfed children dying and suffering, by Jove, start screaming, writing and advocacing for it. People who share same interest will join you.

People who have interest in finding justice for one rich kid also have their right to advocate for such.

You cannot get mad that people are not advocating for your own interests.

othermen:
This is very revealing but it could have been more revealing if the reaction came after the ex-staff of the college had been allowed his submissions.

I doubt the police or the Lagos State investigating panel has called the ex staff to come and make his submissions. When they do, I am sure he will answer.

Attacking him as he was just getting started to reveal the flaws in the school would only discourage him from talking about the rest that may matter.

I agree. But then women are highly emotional beings.

He was not a member of the school management or a member of those in charge of the hostel or the supervision. He was just a staff, who wanted to share what he observed from his own desk.

The emotional outburst from the parent, the rebuke of the fellow would cause other staffs to do quiet.

For this ex-staff, I hope he is willing to appear when he is subpoenaed or ordered to appear as a corroborating witness in the court for the plaintiff.

He sounds like someone who is willing to testify when called upon to. Afterall, I think he came to talk in this zoom meeting without any provocation or benefits.

The college lawyer should also write to him, to intimidate him of an oncoming slaughter of litigation for furthering the case against the school; this will teach others to keep their mouth shut too…while the school management uses it influence in the media to navigate and color the coverage of the incident.

Very unlikely. Unless you think he is telling lies. He must still have his resignation letter stating the reasons he resigned. I am sure he has other collaborating witnesses that witness what went on and has been going on. Many other parents and students would be ready to testify of their own experiences. If the lawyers does that, it would be like shooting themselves in the foot.

Powerexpert:
Last last na out of court settlement I see from this.

It depends on if the case is criminal or civil. The school as a whole might avoid a criminal case, but all individuals directly responsible for the murder would face criminal liability, which cannot be settled out of court.

Emotions are high and I see no reason for the zoom meeting as the case is already in court except if it happened before that.

Which court and what's the case number? The parents came together to share experiences.

The deed has been done. Her outburst is normal going by what she is going through.

It is an eye opener for all parents and I hope the lesson stays put with everyone as we quickly forget and move to the next distraction.

The deed is done. People are awaiting the outcome of the investigations. In the meantime parents are sharing experiences to learn and teach others how to avoid such tragedy in the future.

Maxymilliano:
Obviously there was no discipline in Boys hostel

Obviously the Lagos State Government fails in its responsibility to approve and monitor schools. As these issues had been going on for over decade.

A recently held zoom meeting of parents of students in Dowen College got very emotional when one former teacher revealed that he resigned when he saw the bullying and other problems at the school.

See the emotional video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9edKSQ9q_Q

Oblongata:
My brother seriously it can go any direction. The best is to play safe until investigation is concluded before any call and apologies. Right now every one is watching their every move and these bloggers ain't helping. They can easily twist narrative just for a few traffic.

It can't go either way. Calling someone to console him/her is no admission of guilt in any court in the world. It has no bearing whatsoever on the criminal or civil case.
In fact during the court case, showing human sympathy can sway a judge to either find the school itself not guilty or to reduce punishment even if some of it's officials have been found culpable. It will also swing public opinion in this era of social media, which will help the battered image of the school.

Oblongata:
Father: Hello! Who's on the line?

Owner: it's the Owner of Dowen school

Father: oh, the killers of my son?

Owner: we didn't kill your son sir

HEADLINE NEWS: Dowen owner says they are not responsible for Student's death!

Father: Hello! Who's on the line?

Owner: it's the Owner of Dowen school

Father: oh, the killers of my son?

Owner: I am sorry for the death of Sylvester. His death came to me as a huge shock. The police and school management are carrying out a thourogh investigation on what really happened. At the end of the investigations, I promise you that anybody found culpable or negligent would be punished.

Once again accept my personal condolences. May our Lord Jesus Christ give you the strength to bear the loss.

HEADLINE NEWS: Dowen owner makes condolence call to Sylvester's father. Vows to punish anyone found culpable.

Unless you think the owner herself is culpable or responsible for the murder.

Now why was there no sensational headline when the class teacher called the father to console him?

zedegit:
That would mean accepting responsibility. They denied at onset.

Accepting responsibility for what? If any of my children fail to come to school for 2 days, the class teacher would call to find why. And if I tell them the child is sick, the proprietor would send a delegation to visit the family. Is the school accepting responsibility for the sickness?

Oblongata:
The case is highly sensitive, any misyarn from the owner, 2 seconds everything done burst o.
The best thing is for the owner to keep quiet until the investigation is concluded!

What do you mean misyarn? Are you saying calling the parents to commiserate the family for the loss of their student who happens to be a student of the school will amount to misyarn? So the teacher that called to sympathise with the father was misyarning?

This shows how much the school value their students.

Chibudollar:
easy for you to say, your kid isn't involved.

Believe me if my kid is involved (Which is highly unlikely, as monitor my children), I will not run away or hide them. I will get a lawyer to ascertain the true extent of their involvement and cooperate with the police, state government and the parents of the victim.

Non of my children had ever been reported for fighting not to talk of bullying.

GeneralPula:
But you and your family have been busy catching cruise doing one nonsense birthday for a boy that died a painful death..

He has no reason to... I doubt anyone is taking you people serious as much as they want to, aside from people that will clout chase..

If I’m the president if Nigeria, I’ll just sentence this man and his family to 3 years imprisonments for being stupid then I’ll sentence those killer kids to life imprisonments - they don’t deserve freedom anymore in life !

Police on the case already so I go dey burn my weed dey look..

Different people have different ways of grieving. How can you accuse a father who watched his son die a painful death of catching cruise? Catching cruise for what reason? Celebrating his sons birthday publicly is a way of grieving. I have known a mother that has been celebrating her only son's birthday for the past 20 years. Humans are emotional beings and express emotions in a variety of strange ways.

Chibudollar:
I don't have a kid yet, and I pray either of us don't have to be in this situation, but no parent whatsoever will gladly give up their child to the authorities

But there are parents that will gladly watch their children die a painful death?
Nigerians need to learn the meaning of responsibility. We must learn to accept responsibility for our actions instead of always running away from it.

osuofia2:

Nigerians are too emotional for my liking, how does been a mother to the bully a concern to the mother... Unless nna wan tell me say na the woman send the son to bully the late boy.
Social media justice is wrong.
Let the police do their work

Let your son go and break someone else's property and then later ask the owner or police how the accident/arson concerns the mother.

You are responsible for your children.

UTILITYMAY:
The school shouldn't have allowed the culprits to escape. Their cover up is the one that put them in this mess. They can't eat their cake and at the same time have it. They should pay for their carelessness!

That's what sympathiser of the school fail to understand. If they had reported the case to the police and have Police detain the murderous students, most people would have supported them. But what did they do? They started covering up. They initally released a very stupid press statement, and then allowed the students to escape.

IPIGSRHYPO:
Totally unnecessary.
Jeopardizing the education of the other students.
Knee jerk reaction is just too common in Nigeria.
What happened is sad but closing down the school is totally unnecessary.
If this type of knee jerk reaction is applied everytime we have a crime committed in US schools, most schools will be closed by now.
Arrest the perpetrators and leave the school alone.

Closing down the school is in order. It's not knee jerk reaction as the school was not closed down immediately the incident happened or reported. I am certain preliminary investigations has uncovered gross negligence and even complicity on the part of the school authorities, and it will be a disservice to humanity to allow such school to continue to operate.
If you listen to testimonies of some of the students, you will see that this is not an isolated incident, but had been recurring and the school had been covering up for the students, probably due to the influence of their parents. In this particular case, the house master and the principal were alleged to be aware of the beatings sylvester endured, but tried to promote football injury narrative. Even the the school doctors and nurses should have been able to differentiate between football injury and beatings with belt and sticks.

nachisunday:
better still change your mind brother, even camp anything that will make our kids absent for 3 or more day should be cut off after this, oh very sad

For camp they would over 23 years. At that time they would be full adults, and would not require adult supervision.
At 10 - 15 they are still immature and highly vulnerable. They require lots of adult supervision. Boarding school of nowadays don't seem to invest in enough manpower to supervise and protect young vulnerable children.

DeepSight:
You can say that again.
How your side?

E no easy o. Buharinomics is dealing with son of Man. Person just dey work, but money no get value.

DeepSight:
There is something scary about parenthood.

My brother, it's not easy o. You actually feel the pain of your children, especially mothers.

nachisunday:
Only God know how many people those student don kill outside the sch, infact NO more boarding sch here in nigeria! day sch is much better

And I was thinking of sending my children to boarding school next year. This single incident has made me change my mind. They will finish their secondary school at home. And probably school abroad for tertiary education. Can't take chances with rising cultism in our schools.

TheGift:
Sons of anger. The kind that will burn everything down before they even understand what they are fighting for or against.

Understand what? You can only understand if the victim is not your son. If you watched how the boy died, you will be traumatised for life as a mother.
If na my wife believe me she go burn down that school. Ordinary flog wey dem flog my daugher (who by the way is asthmatic), she almost closed the whole school. You think say to carry pickin for belle for 9 months and then to train them through primary school na beans or na yams.

This are the words of the father.( for those who say it's football injury)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXB5lUzNArH/?hl=en

Nuttella:
The parents were very careless, they didnt listen to him when he told them to change his school, very careless parents. Now they have lost their only child and son. You noticed a change in the behaviour of your child for bad, how lean he got and you didnt do anything, how unusually quiet he has become. Parents of these days think their only responsibility is to provide money for their children. They dont take care of their psychological and emotional needs. I am an Educationist, have also taught in a school and I know what I am saying.

I feel so angry about this.

I know everyone is angry at the gruesome "murder" of the 12 year old, but you can't blame the parents. It due to lack of education. Parents are not taught to recognise signs of bullying. No one knew that bullying would result in murder. It's the responsibility of the school to monitor and punish bullying behaviour by students. Bully victims are most times too afraid or ashamed to report.