₦airaland Forum

o42austino: pls give me a break from his Government provide this Government provide that, Do u mean to tell me that such hospital can't afford Equipment as low as 1m without government involvement?, The C.M.D of that hospital shld be arrested, where the all the allocation that the government has bn sending to d hospital?, what about the internal generated funds?

Well, I'm sure you can take up this issue and get to the bottom of it.

And arrest anybody who is found culpable. Maybe we need all the stink to come out.

You seem to have great knowledge about how things currently run.

YourHealthlabs: Village man..

Now let's take a cursory look at the word "doctor" you've been mouthing all over(as if you invented it in your grandfather's backyard). Open your dictionary and read the different meanings the word "doctor".

It is derived from latin word "docere" meaning "to teach".

In no particular order, a doctor is----->

1. In education; teacher or scholar: a teacher or somebody very knowledgeable.


2. somebody with highest university degree: a title given to somebody who has been awarded a doctorate, the highest level of degree awarded by a university

3. Roman Catholic theologian: in the earlier history of the Roman Catholic Church, an eminent and influential theologian.

4. medic, dentist, veterinarian, or osteopath: a title used before the names of health professionals such as physicians, dentists, veterinarians, and osteopath

5. somebody who can fix things: a skilled practitioner of something, especially fixing or improving something.


Have you noticed you can't protect that title 'doctor" for your benefit alone unlike the "Biomedical scientists" and "pharmacists" in UK protect theirs and make it criminal for any other person to use.

I'm sorry, you can't sue anyone who addresses himself as a "doctor" even if he is a mechanic(check no5 definition). So sweat less

No. You are the village man.

There are laws to protect patients from quackery in places that care about patient care.

And if you are in a hospital and you introduce yourself as Doctor to a patient, you have to mention at the end that you are a pharmacist/lab scientist/ cleaner / phlebotomist etc.

Because patients assume that every Doctor is a physician!!!

In normal countries, nurses that care about patient care and love their jobs carry out the orders of the Doctor.

But in Nigeria, things are upside down.

Imagine us arguing about what the duties of a Doc or Nurse or pharmacist is?

What will we teach our children for goodness sake.

Regardless of how much anybody hates anybody else, the truth should be the truth. It never changes.

prettyprettywow: @ the bolded, then I it's time we change the name to CEO. Imagine CMD?. At least we agree on one thing, that Nigerian Drs have destroyed our health sector with their administration. I think it's time to make the needed change, let's see how far we will go

I'm sorry sister. We don't agree on anything.

You are just venting your frustration at the fact that Doctors head medical institutions.

I wonder why that is even an issue.

You almost seem to have a seizure whenever I say that. But it is a fact.

If you are outside Nigeria, and you are truthfully a health worker, I wonder how your organization runs.

But please read before you start to scream NMA vs JOHESU.

And also calm your nerves before you blow a fuse.

Some things can't be changed by you or I. It is how it is.

prettyprettywow: what is your reason for bringing up the topic if it is not related to the issue at hand? Nurse vs Dr again. who should be called consultant. Mtcheeewww. There are somethings I don't bother reading, and this is one of them. Until you post something that is of interest to Nigerian health sector, you are on your own. Imagine the topic? why nurses should not be called Dr. hia!

With the way you reason, Nigeria clearly has a long way to go.

We are the problem of Nigeria.

prettyprettywow: I thought this whole thing is about the NMA strike? We are in Nigeria, and no nurse wants to be called a Dr. By the way, I didn't bother reading the article because we have more important issues at hand. I also thought you were an objective person, but your comments these period are nothing to write home about. I also guess that we are who we are after all.

Did you see NMA anywhere in the article.

You keep bringing up NMA like your life depends on it.

And why would you reply to a post without reading it?

Is that how you do your exams?

Please!!!

prettyprettywow: Let health administrators manage our hospitals. Let's see if there will be any change. Then, we will know where the problem is coming from, since the past administrators have failed Nigerians. That's my take. You don;t have to agree with me. shikena

That's fine. Developed countries are moving away from that model, but just to justify your spite you can advocate for whatever suites you.

I'm fine with it as long as adequately qualified people who will make a positive change are put in that position. As long as we all man our positions, and anybody who doesn't perform his duty is given the boot.

But note that the CMD is a Doctor position. Its called Chief medical director.

prettyprettywow: Poor funding shey? What have we done with the little funding we have so far? I guess our Dr CMD's who are the world best administrators were busy enriching their pockets with the money meant for the buying of these equipment. I am sure our health sector gets more funding than those of Ghana and other poorer African countries whose health care system are better than ours. Yet, you want to lie to our faces that Drs should continue heading ba? Diaris God ooo

So, the solution is to make you the CMD

Regardless of your qualifications?

Typical Nigerian mentality.

From your analysis, all CMDs of all hospitals over the years have been chopping money? In your eyes, the solution is to make a nurse CMD?

How much funds do hospitals receive? Do you know?

It is really difficult to reason with some Nigerians.

desy24444: even a political science person(wit due respect to dem) wit PhD is called a dr.so wat re u talking abt?

Read and educate yourself before you talk so that you don't sound ignorant!

prettyprettywow: who is dragging the title Dr with you people? Is that the problem at hand? na wa o. I think we should face the reason why NMA is on strike , rather than confusing people. No Nigeria health worker without PhD wants to bear the title abeg The title Dr is not an issue here.

I thought you were an objective person at first.

But I guess a we are who we are after all.

Did you read the article at all?

Or you want me to explain it to you?

Not everyone who calls themselves a doctor has an M.D. or D.O. after their name.

With the ever increasing number of nurses obtaining advanced doctorate degrees, the question of whether or not a nurse can introduce themselves as “doctor” to their patients has sparked a heated debate in the healthcare industry.

While patients who are treated by these nurse-doctors may be none the wiser, physicians are fighting to keep the doctor title restricted, especially since there is great power and responsibility that come with it.

Let us know the implications of what we do!!!
For full article, see source http://www.healthecareers.com/article/why-nurses-should-not-be-called-doctor/169687

Samgreguc: get urself educated pls.
The title Dr, is for jst Physician or Dr. Goodluck a Physician?

In the hospital, the title Doctor is reserved for Physicians.

Our patients do not need any more confusion.

Physicians are called Docs

Nurses are Nurses

Pharmacists are pharmacists

Lab scientists are lab scientists.

Everybody should love and practice their profession!

And whoever does not want to be listening to Docs in a hospital, should get another job or go back to school.

Afterall, lots of people do it. It is okay for people to think they can do better than the Docs we have, just as long as they do it the right way. By going to med school.

Oduduwaboy: hmmm...the next point of agitation of JOHESU is for their members to also be addressed as 'Doctor '. Infact , the pharmacists have started it through their D.Pharm degree.lol.

Next will be the nurses & physiotherapists & other what-nots .
hmm...Nigeria is a wonderful country #everybodydeservestobecalledoctor

Doctors in the US that all have D.Pharm are never called Doctors.

It is a matter of confusion for patients.

Patients deserve to know the background of whoever is talking to them.

theplanmaker: Do you sincerely think that the hospital cannot afford a drill that costs 1million naira without the government?

You can apply that same question to so many organizations run by the FG.

Who runs the hospitals?

Are the Docs supposed to buy drills?

There are hospitals where I've read of, that patients are the ones that buy their own gloves.

I have heard of maternity homes were patients have to bring a 25 liter can of water.

I have worked in hospitals where Docs carry around their own gloves to care for patients.

People die from the simplest things.

Isn't that an indication that there is a big problem?

Administrators will tell you they can't afford to do these things because the allocations they get from the FG is to pay cachectic wages.

theplanmaker: oh I have seen worse......there are cases in Ubth were consultants refuse to attend to patients except they register in their private clinics, this is what medicine has turned to in Nigeria. unlike education, poor funding is not the biggest problem in the health sector........corruption is the problem.

Poor funding is what has resulted into corrupt practices.

How can an orthopedic hospital not have a drill?

How do you expect the Docs to do their jobs?

Docs don't need to go on strike in Nigeria for people to die.

People have been dying and Docs have to bear with the guilt of knowing that those people could have been saved since 1960.

And the FG as well as all these opportunists capitalize on the ignorance of Nigerians.

DanNafada: 1. I left nigeria so that I do not have to work with people like you who, unfortunately, are in the majority.

2. Medicine is supposed to be noble everywhere it is practiced. If you do not value human life simply because you are in Nigeria then you are a BIG part of the problem.

3. I come back home every year to try and make a difference in my own way. Return permanently? Not with people like you around.

4. Working in a different setting has given me fresh perspective. The rot in the system is part of the greater rot in the society. If you think that it's solution lies in going on a strike every couple of years so that you cause even more misery - all the best to you.

I thank goodness you left!!!

You chose not to be part of the solution to a problem.

Now you are all the way over there talking about how things should be run.

Please practice what you preach "NHS doctor". (In the clouds, we can be whoever we choose to be)

And for goodness sake, you have absolutely no idea where I work or who I am.

Maybe you are the guy who just walked past me.

That is a million Dollar question!!!

Doctors inaction has allowed quackery to ruin the health sector.

Nigerian Doctors should have an online registry that can be accessed realtime. Let us know who is prescribing medicines.

Just like in other parts of the world, registered Nigerian Doctors should have registration numbers that MUST be available on every prescription medicine before it is dispensed by any pharmacy/drug store/hospital.

A lot of the agitation by NMA is to protect their profession. Too many usurpers!!! Everybody in Nigeria is now a Doc without training.

Killing poor Nigerians.

#nomorequackery

A recent paper in the journal Social Science and Medicine shows an interesting association when it comes to the management of hospitals.

According to its findings, there is a strong association between having a physician manage a hospital and the hospitals ranking.

Among the specialty hospitals under review in the study, those that are run by physicians rank about 25% higher on the U.S. News and World Report‘s “Best Hospital List” than those run by non-physicians.


Source http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2011/07/10/do-doctors-make-the-best-hospital-administrators/

We make decisions in Nigeria without understanding the peculiarity of things in other countries and attempt to transplant useless ideas from them.

Also, please know that the whole article only talked about MDs because in countries where they have their head screwed on right, the head of any multi-specialty medical team is the physician.

MeAboki: ^^^^Would that change the fact that the job description of the CMD is purely managerial/administrative or change the argument that the position can be held by anyone with the necessary managerial skills without being a medical doctor?

Pls educate us otherwise by posting that of the Director of Administrations (DA) - yeah, lets see how relevant it is to the argument.

A chief MEDICAL director is a purely administrative position Are u kidding me?

Maybe the way things are done in Nigeria make it look that way.

But If you don't know medicine, you can not effectively head any medical institution.

You guys shouting administrators...

The hospitals with non-medical hospital admins have a Medical Director who works in parallel with the hospital administrator.

Introducing this in a Nigerian system where people already don't stick to their job descriptions is unnecessary and will be a catastrophic failure.

And if hospitals are not profitable and with the rot in the system, is that what we need?

Health workers firstly need to know what their duties and responsibilities to their patients are!!!

papindinho: Is a febrile seizure
dangerous?

Although alarming, a febrile seizure in itself is not usually dangerous. Full recovery is usual. Most illnesses which cause fever and febrile convulsions are
the common coughs, colds and viral infections which are not usually serious.
However, the illness that causes the fever is sometimes serious - for example, pneumonia or meningitis.

Can febrile seizures be
prevented?

It may seem logical that if you keep a child's temperature down during a feverish illness it may prevent a febrile seizure. However, there is little scientific evidence to prove that this is so. (It is unclear what triggers the seizure. It is
possibly some body chemical that is released during certain feverish illnesses rather than the temperature itself. Most children with a high temperature do not
have a seizure.) However, it is common practice to keep a child cool when they have a feverish illness. This will make them feel more comfortable. Therefore, if
a child appears hot and distressed then the following will help:

-Keep the child very lightly dressed, or take all their clothes off if the room is warm.
-Give paracetamol (for example,
Calpol®, Disprol®, etc) or ibuprofen.
-Give lots of cool drinks.

Source: www.patient.co.uk/health/febrile-seizure-febrile-convulsion

Thank you.

Very informative!

DanNafada: My little contribution as a doctor who has worked in a teaching hospital in Naija and now working in the NHS:

1. It is an absolute shame for any doctor to go on total strike, for whatever reason. There is just no justification for causing so much suffering and death in a profession that is considered to be as noble as Medicine.
2. The Chief Executive of every major health organization or hospital in most of the West is NOT a doctor. In the NHS for example, there is a Medical Director and others below him who are doctors but the head honcho is the Chief Executive, who is usually not a doctor.
3. There are Nurse Consultants in the NHS but they are mainly based in tertiary academic units and hardly involved in daily clinical care.
4. The first and only time I remember the BMA agreeing to a Doctor's strike in England, emergency and other essential services were not affected. Hardly anybody noticed there was a strike going on and most of this was because doctors voluntarily decided it would have been unethical, even if the reason for considering the strike was justified.

Nigerians have enough on their hands as it is. That a group of very educated and essential professionals cannot see why it is necessary to get back to work simply for the sake of the common man is extremely sad.

Remind me again. Why did you leave Nigeria?

Medicine is noble in the US and the UK because of how much the people and the Governments value human life.

And if you believe so much in the "noble medicine" in Nigeria, why don't you come attend to the dying masses in Nigeria.

If you truly are a Doc who has practiced in Nigeria and is currently in the UK, you will see the rot in our system and you will be saying the exact opposite of what you just posted.

Samgreguc: go through this links pls . . http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Ministry_of_Health_(Nigeria)

Link is not working.

I'm really interested in what the constitution says.

Samgreguc: the ministry of health is purely admin bro.

The Nigerian ministry of health is purely admin. Are you just saying that to prove your position or you know that for sure.

Can you prodvide the job description?

The FG is the employer, so they are the ones who will determine what kind of duties are required.

atbu1983: I just gave an example of country with very effective public health whose minister read political science. Canada health system is even more effective than that of united state of America . Yet thier minister of health is a political scientist.

What kind of decisions do these health ministers make?

I bet you, they have a system for making that work. And they have a system of preventing these ministers from making decisions that would be harmful to public health.

These political scientists definitely do not make health related decisions that they do not understand which is probably why the Canadian health system is one of the best in the world.

If we replicate their style in Nigeria, how do you propose that the minister make decisions that would reduce the amount of women dying as a result of pregnancy in Nigeria?

atbu1983: surgeon general of United State is the same position as minister of health in Canada and other countries. And in Canada currently the minister of health is a political science graduate. In the United State only about 5percent of the hospitals are headed by doctors. The job of surgeon general, minister of health or chief medical director is purely Administrative. I am an Engineer. The current minister of petroleum read estate management. The truth is any professional can hold any admistrative position. I know some doctors may argue by saying why is the minister of justice and attorney general exclusively barristers. The difference is why the federal govt can be sued and thus the attorney general is the lawyer of the fed govt. Because the fed govt is a legal person. In the case of health, the fed govt is not a biological person and thus does not need a doctor.

In order to decide who to head any institution, you first think about what kind of decisions they will be making.

If the minister of health has to make health decisions that a Doctor normally would make, then he has to be a Doctor.

If it is purely administrative, (which is most unlikely, just like the example of the attorney general) then it should be somebody capable of making good administrative decisions in the in the interest of their bosses.

People with deserving qualifications should be heads. In Nigeria, everything is upside down!!! Everything has to do with politics and not merit.

A smart and economical decision will be to merge both duties into one position - Administrative + Medical. And of a Doctor is in the best position to head these organizations for our Nigerian situation, then make it compulsory for applicants to have administrative education or experience.

Let us put the best qualified people as our leaders in everything or else we will continue to rot in sh|t...

prettyprettywow: please, this post is not about NMA and JOHESU. Every post should't be about that. Got it?

Did I mention JOHESU or NMA in my write up?

prettyprettywow: why would they be asking for such post? Is that what we need as a nation at this point in time? how will this position improve the health of the masses? don't we already have director of public health in the ministry of health? will heaven fall if he performs the role of the so called surgeon-general? Besides the SGF is a public health position. Don't know why we as a nation like big titles sha

I totally agree that we do NOT need a surgeon general right now. There are other problems that need resolved.

same way we don't need consultant nurses/pharmacists/lab techs. There are so many more responsibilities that have not yet being fulfilled by these respective health workers. After all nthat is done, then we can ask for more.

There is so much more we need in the health sector.

Unfortunately, most of the requests by these organizations are mostly in competition with Docs.

And Docs are trying to guarantee their positions by some of these requests.

Until the real problems are addressed, we will only continue to go round in circles!!!

nouveaux: satan is stalking you closely

Nice. Is he stalking me for speaking the truth against his agents of evil?

And God is stalking you closely for all the evil you are doing!!!

nouveaux: Evil spirits have no hidden place, u see them frustrating efforts. Ziga, phantom and co, your evil spirited days are numbered.

Bushman!!!

Your evil spirit days are numbered.

Killing Nigerians since 1914!!!

Don't worry, God is watching you.

prettyprettywow: you are right anyway. but the idea of one group always going on strike at the detriment of the public should be discouraged. No group should hold govt at ransome just because they think the are the alpha and omega. a little competition is healthy though. W all need attitudinal change.

The people who are actually most responsible are the FG.

Nigerian Docs are doing their job. And every worker has the right to down tools.

With the state of the health system, people are dying unnecessarily everyday even with Docs in the hospital.

Those are some of the issues that the Docs are fighting for. Unfortunately, the Nigerian govt has never negotiated with any group without there being some form of strike action. It is sad for things to resort to this, but when the FG holds everybody to ransome, what other options are left.

Competition is good. but should be between similar professions. Doc to Doc; Nurse to Nurse; NP to NP.

Competition across levels is never good and always yields bad results like what we have here. A Doc will never be a pharmacist, a nurese will never be a lab scientist/Doc and vice -versa. So there is no basis for competition between them.

prettyprettywow: ofcourse, we will have properly trained nurses. Atleast we now have Bnsc nurses who can go back to school to become Nps. We also have nurses who are trained in advanced country that can gladly help. Some states are sending a number of their nurses abroad for advanced training. and when the time comes, we will have capable hands.

It is not just about the training.

The health system is in a lot of trouble. There is no accountability and people do whatever they want.

And like somebody else said, even if the best Docs and Nurses are imported for developed countries, they will either succumb to the system or be forced to leave if they can't bear the pressure.

We are all responsible for this problem. Nobody is satisfied with their job description and everybody is trying to operate beyond their training and scope of practice at the expense of poor Nigerians.

The administrators havven't done anything to improve facilities and everybody is fighting to be the boss.

Take a look and you will see the appalling death rates.

NPs are a good idea, but will only worsen the competition and disorder, until the health care system is organized and people are forced to do only what they are qualified to do or face penalties.

True. We need more diagnosticians. We mostly need an organized health system where people are held liable for their malpractices and health workers are paid well enough for their responsibilities.

But before we have nurse practitioners, we need properly trained nurses who can become nurse practitioners.

And that starts with first knowing what your limits and responsibilitites are.

In Nigeria, every Tom, D|ck and Harry is prescribing medicines that they know nothing about without a diagnosis.

And the ill informed common man will be ever so grateful to these "self proclaimed Docs" without realizing how much harm they have been exposed to.

P.S. I only focused on Nurses because that is the matter at hand. But the poor training/education in Nigeria cuts across all sectors (including Docs) and is begining to be a major hazard.