₦airaland Forum

Nigerians will be the ones that will make Nigeria crumble.

I am seriously disappointed at a lot of comments on this page.

I guess you have seriously lost touch with reality because you were able to leave the country.

Do you know how much the Nigerian government spends on health care
And we are trying to put down someone who is changing all the previous trends.

Some of you guys quoting US hospitals and sh.it. . . do u know how much waste they have in their health system that they have been struggling to correct

Fashola has done so many progressive things. . . and provision of a hospital of this standard, which seems to be even better equipped than some federal hospitals is really progressive.

For christ sake, the hospital is right where people need them.

If you can't think before you speak because of the hate and prejudice that has filled your life, abeg go hug transformer.

F^ckup 

Truthfully, all of this talk might be unnecessary.

But unfortunately, i think i know why a lot of other ethnic groups on nairaland like to beat on Ibos.

It is because "you" like to beat your chest and claim to be the ONE in front of others, while they(others) can clearly see the weaknesses in you that we all have in common.

It is obvious that the common Nigerian mind has been ravaged by poverty that a housing estate like this will be regarded to as "elitist"

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=796155.msg9494134#msg9494134 date=1320604569]ola one


the nigerian situation is bad, granted, but its a bit unrealistic to expect someone to be able to cater for the whole family right out of medical school or indeed any school.


men often have that burden, but this is caused by the nigerian economic environment which is poor.

i think the high wages paid by the oil companies have led to unrealistic salary expectations back home.


in addition, i doubt most western trained doctors can adapt well to practicing medicine in nigeria, simply because in nigeria what we have is mainly tropical medicine, and more of hand on experiences where you learn to tailor your medical practice to what you see on ground.

i'm not saying the health infrastructure in nigeria is good- dont get me wrong.

as per the housemanship conditions- yes, your brother should have bought a new mattress and bug spray.

or simply moved somewhere else.


if he had problems adapting why didnt he network with any corpers in his area and find out how they were coping.[/quote]If doctors are to have such big responsibilities in terms of taking care of sick people and being humanitarian about it, then, i don't think it is unfair/unpatriotic for them to go to places where they would be better appreciated/remunerated.

Especially if they have to go through all these hoops and still be humanitarian about caring for other human lives.

The average Nigerian doesn't value healthcare. . . That is why life expectancy is low, that is why you can walk into a chemist to pickup whatever medicine you want, and that is also why we are having this argument.

You have to take good care of the few people who take care of all the other sick people. . . Truth is some things are supposed to be more important than others. . . And i think health is somewhere on top of the list.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=796155.msg9493666#msg9493666 date=1320598690]Who are you arguing with? As the post you quoted but evidently didn't read states, I'm not opposed to doctors (or anyone else, for that matter) leaving. Assuming they've paid back money one way or another.[/quote]Well, i think i understand your point. But thing is, it affects everybody who had their education in Nigeria and not only doctors. Education is subsidized, but students basically go through hell to fill in the gaps that the "subsidized education" leaves them with. I will try not to go into the details.

So, how much more would be fair tuition to Nigerian students, for the current educational system that is provided.

Bottom line is, the problem is multi-factorial, so trying to fix one thing wouldn't change nothing.

Kobojunkie:
lol . . . . You didn't even notice how he SWITCHED this to Doctors DURING RESIDENCY( not really considered graduates in most all countries until AFTER RESIDENCY).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residency_(medicine)

Medical students, during residency still, live on better wages than their PHD counterparts --- PHD average is still at about $28000 a year in most states here. The average doctor (non-resident student) according to reports available online earn upwards of $80,000 both in Europe and America( in UK the start is at about $35 k and above which is well over $80000). In the US, a friend who recently completed residency and is now out in the job market, signed an over  $100,000 a year contract in the city. Good research will reveal this is no special case at all.

Anyways, it is more than obvious that this original article says NOTHING of resident doctors/medical students but fully licensed doctors and nowhere in developed countries do they earn what anyone can consider little money if the facts are considered.

@kobo
Say what you know please. . . Not what you think!!!

We can argue till thy kingdom come, but the truth is simple.

The world is becoming a smaller place  and there is competition everywhere. . . And if the Nigerian government doesn't step up or at least try to move in that direction sooner than later, Nigerian doctors who get the opportunity and scale the hurdles required will continue to relocate to greener pastures.

After all, don't we all look for the best of things in life

abbey621:
There's no amount of explanation that would satisfy some of you, who are just basically ignorant. Just because you make 30,000 naira per month doesn't mean you live above $2 per day. The statistics is calculated based on GDP, minimum salary range and unemployment number, unless most of you whacks are economically smarter than those calculating such statistics, I suggest you keep shut. I'm tired of all the useless analysis, If you say you're unemployed and living above $2 per day, then you're bigger trouble than you think! Nigerians need 2 seriously educate themselves, I'm not just talking about university education, common sense education is what is needed.  In a country with over 40% unemployed and another 30% making less than 30k per month, seriously how can you not see that the people are suffering. $2 or $3, whatever, majority of Nigerians are poor, poor and poor!!!!!

Mr. Oga,
Nobody is arguing that Poverty doesn't exist in Nigeria. And that seems to be where a lot of people get it wrong. The points that were raised were very simple. Poverty is a very complicated terminology with lots of definitions. The <$2/day figure is about relating levels of poverty in different countries to balance things out. And OP's points are that this is a flawed design, just like there is no perfect design.

But all the professors here can't even identify with that simple statement. haba!!!

It seems you might have some knowledge about statistics, and if i am correct, you know that not all statistical methods are appropriate.

Regardless of what method they have used, the fact remains that it is not a correct representation of the Nigerian situation.

If you have attended sessions where statistical figures have been discussed, you will know what i mean.

I don't know of any other way to explain the points that some people have raised so far!!!

[quote author=Mr. Globe link=topic=794653.msg9468229#msg9468229 date=1320260099]@ziga you are the unintelligent one and emotionally unstable one on this thread even stephen wonder can see that. Go back and read all YOUR post on this thread and compare it with the rest. Yours lacked objectivity. If the 80% was based on illiteracy and du.mbness, I will really throw you in there. If after reading some objective and factful post here and you think 80% poverty rate in Nigeria is not generous you must be on crac'k.
Nigerian universities one of the 'substandardest' in the world, poor roads, no light, no business oriented economy, no social safety net, very high income inequality etc. How many people overseas will do aboki, conductors, agberos etc at its crudest form? Nigerians should begin to tackle the problem and not the messenger. Ve visited PH and I saw people (a community) living in houses built with zincs, planks etc. I was really touched.[/quote]Lol.
Your words are funny and you sound really angry. I wonder why

Read the title of the thread and compare with your arguments. @ 2nd quote in bold.

Illiteracy is also one big problem with us Nigerians, and too many people take advantage of that.

Iolo:
Hi everyone,

The reason I created this thread was to engage healthy debate on the topic. I wanted to see how people would react, and get a clue to how the average Nigerian thinks.

My personal opinion is that 80% of Nigerians definitely don't live on less than $2/day, but I was looking for someone who says otherwise to come up with statistics, and facts that are verifiable. Let's move past the using sentiments to solve our problems stage, because that's part of our many problems too.

Saying some people here are hungry looking, they haven't got salaries for 6 months blah blah blah, that's all irrelevant to the debate.

All you need do is ask:

These so-called poor people, what's the cumulative worth of their other daily expenditures + feeding (whether they buy the food or not)?

I am not saying the average Nigerian spends more than $2/day, what I am saying is that the average Nigerian lives on much more than $2/day. There's a difference.

Don't these guys eat? Are they not clothed? Don't they have mobiles? + they simply haven't died of starvation.

We all know the roads are bad, there's corruption, and people are suffering which is all true. But until we start thinking from a problem solving perspective, we would never reach the levels the Chinese and Japanese got to by believing in themselves.

Again, statistics, facts and figures to either disprove the topic or support the topic is what's needed.

@Iolo
Unfortunately, I don't think anybody will be able to logically make a case to disprove your points. Nigerians don't like to be challenged, they prefer to remain wherever they have been put and blame anything else for their situation. . . the Government, Pastor, God ets ets.

Clearly this thread proves that maybe up to 80% of Nigerians are unintelligent and are emotionally unstable.

coogar:
very correct.

because we all belong to the top 10% of the people living well, we tend to think everyone's alright. everyone here has a laptop and a wifi connection or a phone powered by 3g/edge. we all make the top 10% in that country and we tend to have affiliates or know people like us so we believe all is well and dandy. that is so far from the truth. the fact is. . . . .the majority live below $2.

go to damaturu, zamfara, the jungles of gombe etc and go and see people who don't know who obama is, people who are far away from civilization then the reality will hit you. the united nations are not silly. they see what we don't see. you probably lived all your life in lagos. used to seeing exotic cars, designer gear, etc and you think that is what the population can afford!

I think your mentality is the problem. You are going on and on talking about living far away from civilization, knowing obama etc etc. . . Look missy, that is not what we are talking about here, so your argument is off-beat. All that shi.t doesn't mean crap.

We are talking about only the people who live on less than $2 daily. It's actually very simple.

Actually, you are correct, i grew up in Lagos, but unfortunately, there are also many poor people in Lagos just like in other parts of the country, so your point is pointless

coogar:
n.b. the next time you call me miss - i will call you a whor[i]e[/i]
coogar is a bloke!

You really sound like a frustrated kid judging from your last few sentences here. Just be careful not to break mummy's laptop!!!

coogar:
you are the one clueless here.
80% of nigerians are suffering and i am willing to bet the percentage is closer to 90 than 80.

20% of nigeria(the affluents) is 32 million.
that's almost 5 times the population of libya and that number is more than all the neighbouring west african countries put together.
the people you see in those beer parlours and selling phones are in the 20% category. they are not "poor".

Miss Coogar

Let me re-interpret something for you.

80% of Nigerians live on <$2 per day = 80% of the Nigerians you know live on <$2 per day = 4 out of 5 Nigerians you know live on <$2 per day.

Does that sound correct to  you? ? ?

Taiw:
i served in d north ,i can tell u categorically dat majority dont even earn up to half of N300 n dey still survive.ask God.pple go to restaurants,parties hotels to beg 4 leftovers dat dey used in feedin deir families.[b]one idiotic n[/b]l said pple re poor n yet dey still ave fones.any smart person can ave a fone.sumone i knew bought a fone 4 N200 even in computer village,u can get used fones 4 dat amount,sum even steal it.[b]will u nw say dey re nt poor cos dey still ave fones?[/b]wat bout pple dat pick d clothes dey wear frm dustbins,even go frm house 2 house begging 4 used clothes.pple actually live below dat amount.i wud rather choose 2 b poor in uk than in naija.atleast i noe i'll enjoy light,roads and govt. benefits.i tink d statics of 80percent is justified if u luk around u well

You need to read and understand before u start throwing insulting words around.

First i agree with you. . . phones do not mean that you are not poor. However, if you are poor enough, and you live on less than $2 a day, you would have sold your phone which would assure you of at least 30 days living, assuming you have a cheap Nokia. So, the "idiotic nl" has a valid point!!!

I see so many Nigerians with small minds. We always have something to say (opinion) even when it is pointless.

Some clarifications
1. Op never said there is no poverty in Nigeria
2. He systematically prove that 80% of Nigerians living on <$2/day is bull.crap
3. He also stated that even if. . . . the fact that my $2 would buy me more things in Nigeria than my $2 in the US does not necessarily make me poor.

There are so many things about statistics that you should always ask yourself how they created those numbers.

These are some of the things he highlighted that some people are still arguing about.

These so called statements of fact that are quoted carelessly, (80% living on less than $2/day) seem to have beaten us down so much that most people just want to remain in that state. We may be poor, but we are not as hopeless as they make it seem.

abbey621:
The problem with Nigerians is not physical but logical. When a statistic shows that 80% of the population lives on less than $2/day, it doesn't mean the 80% is derived from a fixed method. For the employed, you take an average salary of 18k(official federal minimum salary), minus 4k(Transportation) minus 2k(Health cost) minus 2k(phone) minus 2k(miscellaneous),= 8k left for feeding which is the real living cost= this equates to less than $2/day.


For the unemployed it's even more glaring, if you are unemployed, your income is based on others and whatever luck brings your way. So your living cost = luck+ amount of people you depend on = poor!

The last part of my analysis, shows that most in the north, are definitely poor, when you use the statistics above for the employed, because they don't even enjoy the minimum 18k salary and must depend on farming and livestock. We have 3 high populated area in the north, that accounts for 20% of Nigeria's population, let's add that to the villages in the southwest such as Ago-Iwoye, Oru  and other villages in the southeast. Statistics of 80% is just about right, because the whites would not calculate income based upon hearsay or sentiments from the people, statistics is calculated based upon the country's GDP and the average minimum salary for the employed and the number of unemployed in Nigeria.

Let me give you all something to think about, the latest statistics in the US shows that 1 in every 6 children in the US don't have food to eat, we all know that there's plenty of food in the US and that you can even get free food, because of the many loopholes but statistics will only show families with no income, foreclosures and high debt, and calculate based on these factors that the children of such families can't possibly eat 3 square meals.

Just like your last paragraph implied that you do not believe the "1 in 6 US children are starving bull.shi.t", OP is trying to say that the "80% live on less than $2 a day" is bull.shi.t. And i think his point stands regardless of how they arrived at their value.

Unfortunately, Nigerians are not thinking people, and you wouldn't believe how much we believe stories about us that are written by other people.

Nigeria has many poor people and standards of living is poor. But when we lose the ability to think and be logial, then we are forever trapped in our miserable states.

I think the OP's message is that we need to think for ourselves. Unfortunately, many people think this is about patriotism. . . . only shows how backwards our minds are already!!!

okosodo:
Nigerians are far poorer than this your incorrect indices. We only survive by smartness

Mr Man, the poster was very logical with his points, so you should at least try small and not just make statements that seem to be coming from thin air.

For example, how are Nigerians far poorer than his indices. Are the points he raised false? Unless we begin to think for ourselves, we will never progress!!

Iolo:
My opinion is that foreign countries and organizations like to malign Africans with facts that downgrade us both intellectually and emotionally.

$2 / day = 300naira per day  = which is ~ 10000 monthly.

Now let's consider cost of living in Nigeria:

Average Meal - N150 (N300 per day for two square meals)

I haven't even added cost of transportation, accommodation, etc and the 10000naira is already gone.

Does this mean 80% of Nigerians eat just once a day?
Does this mean 80% of Nigerians don't live in houses?
Does this mean only 20% of Nigerians own Mobile Phones? If no, how do the remaining recharge?
Does this mean only 20% of Nigerians have places to live in? If no, where do the rest stay in?
Does that 80% figure include children and young adults? If yes, then these people don't have any income and shouldn't be factored in.

Lagos and Kano hold approximately 20% of Nigeria's population, with 30+M residents out of Nigeria's 150M. If I choose to include states like Ogun, FCT, Oyo, Imo, Anambra, where the average person can afford @ least two square meals, how true then is the 80% of Nigerians are poor theory.

Or are the foreign bodies counting Almajiris (the only people who are really poor in my books) to be 80% of our population?

Lastly, if I can get 2 square meals, housing, etc all for 300 naira per day. Does this make me poor?

What are your thoughts?   

Disclaimer: I have been to the poorest of places in Nigeria, the remotest locations, as well as the richest locations in Nigeria too. So I know how the really poor people live. And trust me, even they eat two square meals.

You have raised a lot of valid questions.

True - There is poverty in Nigeria, and it needs to be addressed.
Also true - A lot of Nigerians have been brainwashed by statistics that seem to be baseless, and you will see people attacking you very logical points with sentiments and irrational reasoning.

The bolded statement is really worth thinking about, for all ye that swallow whatever other people (Oyinbo) say without reasoning.

dayokanu:
Lol

Its like someone showing Osun State with only pictures from Ada Golf course

http://www.ogheneworoakara.com/1050/pictures-of-miccom-golf-hotel-resort-ada-osun-state/

https://www.ogheneworoakara.com/wp-content/themes/prophoto3/images/blank.gif

http://hospitalitynigeria.com/miccom_golf.php

https://www.miccomgolfhotels.com/miccom%20HTML/body2d.jpg

https://www.ogheneworoakara.com/wp-content/themes/prophoto3/images/blank.gif

[img]http://modamo.files./2009/10/oau03.jpg?w=497&h=386[/img]

www.nairaland.com/attachments/151898_OAUIfe_in_the_80s_jpgaba6374d0165862cdb0dbabac8caba15

[img]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRL-7zdZmO1rmBVP4RLQIo6xLe9L0QrVYsDYvmDlTx3gLajQn7aIpZJ1pen[/img]

Like saying That is Osun State. Whom are you deceiving

Pictures No 2 and 4 above are from OAU campus Ife. . . Not Micom.
Just saying

Common sense - If something is better, you try to get it.

I'm sure it not going to be too difficult for those people to get back into Libya.

I wish them the best of luck. Sincerely!

Great job girl. You make us proud.

When was the last time Naija was in the finals of anything

Kasiem2:
Op, do u think that an anambra person relies on one business? Man, anambra people like doing many businesses at the same time. I know of an anambra woman that works as a secretary in a gov't parastatal, she has this habit of investing her salaries on the purchasing of tricycles and lands, which she in return gives to people. After some time, the investment will yield for her. So, is there any sense in judging this woman with her salary? There are many anambrarians that are living without any money in their account, because they like putting their money in investments.

macjive01:
[img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWrpp-O60Hr6fRXbyZC2aOmUhto51XY18M13L0wZho0hsiWDN0iWWPZ8QeZg[/img]

IN a manner reminiscent of the late Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe (Zik), Ikemba Nnewi, Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu, has made it clear that he is not in a hurry to leave this earth.

Zik, a foremost nationalist and Nigeria's first President, had declared in an interview with journalists in his later years, that he was not in a hurry to leave this earth.



Asked how he was looking forward to death, the Great Zik, as he was fondly called by his admirers, replied that this earth was all he knew and that he would like to enjoy it much longer. He eventually died at the ripe age of 91.

In a somewhat similar manner, Ojukwu, whose rumoured death shook the nation midweek, has told close friends and relatives that death is not on his mind for now as he still has an unfinished business.  .   .     .

http://www.imostateforum.com/index.html/index.php?topic=168.0

[size=18pt]www.imostateforum.com[/size]

What kind of stoopid @ss report is this. Is it talking about Zik or Ojukwu. He talked to close friends. Hehehe. . . And the so called journalist spoke to Zik or Ojukwu or Ojukwu's close friends

The report is all over the place. Signs of people telling lies all over this report mehn!!!

First of all, some of the practices that you used as examples to regarding Africa being primitive vs conservative anre outdated and generally discouraged. e.g. female circumcision, tribal marks

People are people regardless. And if you expose the western/civilized man to our environment, he will very likely start to act the same way.

So, my point is we adapt to the resources and environment that we have around us. If you are truly objective and seek to understand why people do what they do, you will understand. But people prefer to look from outside without understanding and make judgement.

Like some other poster said, witchcraft is practiced in different ways all over the world and its not exclusive to Africa.

So much arrogance on this thread mehn!!!

There are posters that i do not agree with most of the time, but sometimes they definitely make very correct statements. We should not let our prejudice affect logical thinking.

From what Mr. knowall has written. His assumptions are based on the news article, which clearly states that experts have confirmed that the discovery is crude oil. However, they do not know yet if it is in commercial quantities.

So, if you have not been on the scene where it was discovered, and you were not the one who ran the tests, how can you logically disprove the discovery. And if you can disprove the discovery, or you have doubts, express your doubts with sense. And saying that Nigerians do not have experts with the capacity to identify crude oil is outrageous!!!

Naija and all our ITK people sha!!! Too many cooks. No wonder we are No 1 in the world.

LOL @ AL mustapha
HA HA HA HA. . . This is the remix!!!