Anyway people, it was ,  well ,  predictable, but now it's boring.

Stay blessed and I hope that somehow we will all continue to be enlightened with truth and be delivered from religious bondage someday.

Love to all,
Trini

Trini I really feel your pain, I also really wish sex before marriage is no sin but damn it is. You've been given enough proofs what I'll like to add here is that everything in life works on principles, for you to enjoy a blissful marriage, one of the things you need to keep away from is premarital sex, even with your husband or wife to be. believe me when I say this, it saves you a lot of stress.

Pre-marital sex is funication if comitted with more than one person. But if one has only one sexual partner, it's not funication. This is my opinion which i believe am entetled to.

hey Trini_girl, don't mind all these peeps.

hey guys, cut the crap and the dissings here and there. why condemn someone to hell because of an opinion.

[center]PLEASE CAN WE HAVE AN INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION, AT LEAST FOR ONCE!!![/center]

please trini_girl, on a more serious note: I seek to understand something from all that has been said on this thread, here is the conclusion of the matter. Please kindly clear your mind of all that has been said. Can we discuss?

thanks.

Please Trini, kindly correct me on these any of these issues and clarify as needed:
You are saying:
1) Fornication is not Premarital Sex, and vice-versa. This is because Pre-Marital Sex includes the element if understanding and commitment towards marriage (between the couple).
like you said earlier:

My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.

Well said. And you agree that:
2) Pre-Marital sex is not a sin. Ok, fine.

With the above taken, i can define Fornication as:
- That Fornication is the sexual act between two people(male and female) who are not interested or committed towards each other for the purpose of marriage.
and
3) You also agree that Fornication is a Sin.


Ok. my question is with regards to an observation which I have made, especially in the society:
- put yourself in the shoes of someone trying to advice a pregnant girl. She(the girl) is a graduating secondary school student and  pregnant for a boy- student like herself. As far as the marriage idea/agreement wasnt in the picture during the sexual act, then we can say they both committed fornication. Right. And what they did was wrong.

Case:
The family of the girl will not abort the child, neither will they allow the shame of an acknowledged child in the family, because it will destroy the family image. Its usually the female side of the story that bears the brunt of the whole issue. See, the kids can hardly take care of themselves, talk less of a baby. They still have a future which is about to be ruined if the wrong decision is taken. So the families(especially that of the girl) agree: so as not to bring shame to the family anymore, so as to preserve the life of the unborn child, therefore, they rally round and mount pressure until they are heeded to(by the family of the boy). The resolve is that the boy, under any and/or all condition MUST marry the girl before the baby is born.

In the light of the suppositions(right or wrong) on Pre-marital sex and Fornication as detailed above, the conclusion of the matter is that the boy and girl did nothing absolutely wrong, since they ended up getting married, the only difference was it was by force.

SO to put it right, fornication could turn out to become an approximate of pre-marital sex.
The sin would not be a sin anymore if the fonicating couple get married.

In addition, what would we make of Adultery: If a man is planning to leave his present wife, as long as he has agreed with the other woman on marriage, can they have sex?

what do you have to say about this!!!

wow, its amazing the lenghts people go to make excuses for their sins and so on. Ok, If premarital sex is not fornication, then WHAT is fornication? And form of sex BEFORE marriage - PRE marital, is fornication. As long as you too are not married, u guys are living in sin. Period.
Trini girl, dont try to make excuses about anything. Its purely black and white. No one is condemning you or anyting, but the fact of the matter is that is it a SIN.
Go look up the dictionary definition of fornication. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fornication

Sin, Fornication, the Scriptures, hell, heaven and the boogey man!

Made by man to control man. Idiotic dribble that is supposed the frighten us into doing their bidding or else we will be burned in hell by the God that loves us so much :-)

There is nothing wrong in having sex whether you are married, widowed, single or a space alien from Mars!

If only people would live and let live. For those of you that think that having a piece of paper before you screw makes you better then anybody else or more Godly, then think again and get a life.

Sex and Religion should be kept as far apart as possible.

I do not screw in church, so they should keep the Bible out of my bedroom :-)

trini_girl:

Others have attempted to use frivilous arguments about words and their meanings, stating that one word might have many meanings. But it worked to their disadvantage, since it only solidified my contention, that english words, can and have been manipulated to suit the needs of societal change. Hence the reason to study root meanings.

If this is your argument, then words like brave, counterfeit, girl, knight, neck, notorious, tell, etc should also be used and applied correctly in their original form, by you and you alone.  I hope you know that these words also metamorphosed into how you use them today, and I'm sure it will sound stupid to you if anyone tells you the word "quick" actually means "alive".  (Source)

But let's just say, for argument sake, that I agree with you here.

I'm actually wondering if you just smiled at the link I provided earlier, or whether you actually read through the content of that article.  Because if you did, I do not expect you to still be arguing here on whether premarital sex is fornication or not.

Now, I'm just going to highlight the keypoints in that article now:

[P. S.  Only those in square brackets are my personal addenda]

The word fornication comes from three separate words in the Bible, two from the Hebrew and one from the Greek [funny how you only pay attention to the greek language]. These words all share similar connotations. Each can mean literal fornication between two unmarried persons in a marriage contract; however, it can also signify adultery, whoredom, or an act of unfaithfulness on the part of Yahweh’s people.

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).  [See how fornication is being synonymized with premarital sex in the Hebrew langauge?]

Again, we only find a broad definition for this Greek word, "porneia." Porneia is used 32 times in the New Testament and conveys many different definitions.  [You see, this is the one the Bible actually warns against, and not some "korinthiazomai"]

For example, the word fornication in Matthew 5:32 is often taken to denote an act of adultery, however an in-depth study will prove this understanding false, and confirm the real usage of this Greek word "porneia" in this particular passage, which is fornication, pre-material sex. [See again? Now, this is from the greek language that you so much believe in.]

Finally,

Trying to pinpoint this word [fornication] without examining the passage in question is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. [shey you dey hear?] Fornication in either the Hebrew or Greek can have and denote a wide range of definitions. It can mean literal fornication, adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that Yahweh has placed for mankind to observe.

Source:  http://www.yrm.org/qna-fornication.htm


Phew!

do u want to have pre-marital sex or u have been havin it. it a big sin against God, stop it n if u cant marry me cause am available, u can call me on 08029404288

For real?

shahan:

For real?

Is that supposed to be a question mark or an exclamation mark.

Nne. . hee-hee

Kia-kia, copy that phone number before mr admin remove the post by mistake!

_{Em, samy-young, brace up and start fasting now O - she's not that easy to win with one sentence!}

I think that instant online internet marriages and divorces should be made available.

For a small fee you can get married (print out the certificate at home), have steaming hot passionate sex and then apply online for an instant divorce.

This could be the big business idea of the 21st Century!

If you were not near an internet connection when you were feeling Hot, you could send an sms message.

I would charge a flat fee of $4.99 which would include the instant marriage service, printable certificate and divorce papers.

There would be a special offer of $99.00 per Month which would include one marriage and divorce per day,

Mastercard, Visa and American Express would be accepted. Pay cash at the postoffice.

www.fornication4u.com

Anybody want to invest as a partner?  


Scenario

Man: 'Come on Sexy, lets do the business'

Girl: 'Are you crazy, we are not married and according to the Bible that would be a sin and we would fornicate'

Man: 'No, problems baby', 'get your stuff and and jump on the bed whilst I get us married online!'

Keyboard noises, printing noise, condom packet opening etc etc etc (smell of Old Spice)

Man 'Here we go baby, it's all legal and above board', ' who's your daddy?'

Lots of wet squelching noises and load moaning later!

Girl: 'Where are you going?'

Man: 'Just a second baby', ' I have to go on the internet again'

More keyboard noises and printer whines away!

Man: 'OK, we are now legally divorced', 'Now get your clothes on bitch and leave my flat'

Girl: 'OK, I am going'

Man: 'Same time tomorrow night?'

Girl: 'OK' love you

Man: 'Love you to'

Sick Reverend!


hey trini_girl, I'm still awaiting your response.

Kimba!

You are a breath of fresh air on this thread!  

kimba:

With the above taken, i can define Fornication as the sexual act between two people(male and female) who are not interested or committed towards each other for the purpose of marriage.[/b]

Actually, that's incorrect.  The assumption here is that the couple is committed to each other and may or may not eventually be married. I never said "not interested or committed" to each other.  Also, fornication does not necessarily have to be between male and female only.

kimba:

Ok. my question is with regards to an observation which I have made, especially in the society:

- put yourself in the shoes of someone trying to advise a pregnant girl. She is a graduating secondary school student and  pregnant for a boy- student like herself.

As far as the marriage idea/agreement wasnt in the picture during the sexual act, then we can say they both committed fornication. Right. And what they did was wrong.

In my opinion, no , they did not fornicate, they had sex too early and as a consequence got pregnant.  Sex is for mature adults.

kimba:

Case:
The family of the girl will not abort the child, neither will they allow the shame of an acknowledged child in the family, because it will destroy the family image. Its usually the female side of the story that bears the brunt of the whole issue.

See, the kids can hardly take care of themselves, talk less of a baby. They still have a future which is about to be ruined if the wrong decision is taken.

So the families(especially that of the girl) agree: so as not to bring[b] shame to the family anymore[/b], so as to preserve the life of the unborn child, therefore, they rally round and mount pressure until they are heeded to(by the family of the boy).

The resolve is that the boy, under any and/or all condition MUST marry the girl before the baby is born.

You see, therein lies the problem, there is nothing shameful in pregnancy.  This is a cultural and traditional issue.
Why make the poor girl suffer for a mistake she made.  It's bondage. It sounds like her family is more interested in saving face than doing what's right for their child.  Forcing her to get married to a boy who has no clue of what marriage means will do more harm than good. And the poor boy  . Why make either of them give up a bright future for a mistake they made?

If concern was shifted from this nonsense of image and status in society, to dealing with the issue of why she ended up in such a situation in the first place, she will be fine.  Her family and his should put together and take care of the child, because children are a blessing.  However, forcing them to get married is wrong!  Let them decide for themselves when they are much older if they want to marry.

kimba:

In the light of the suppositions(right or wrong) on Pre-marital sex and Fornication as detailed above, the conclusion of the matter is that the boy and girl did nothing absolutely wrong, since they ended up getting married, the only difference was it was by force.

I would not call it fornication, but they did do something wrong, they were not ready for sex so they should not have ventured down that road.  Otherwise, even if they did (which I condemn) they would know to use protection against pregnancy.  Getting married should never be used as a right for a wrong.  The deed is already done.  Move on from there, doing what's best for the girl and the boy.

kimba:

SO to put it right, fornication could turn out to become an approximate of pre-marital sex.
The sin would not be a sin anymore if the fonicating couple get married.

You haven't shown me a connection in this situation between fornication and pre marital sex explaining them becoming one and the same.

I've been reading an article on the Hebrew and Greek meaning and it seems to cover sex outside of marriage with multiple partners, adultery, harlotry, incest, idolatry, homosexuality, beastiality and sex with extended family members.

kimba:

In addition, what would we make of Adultery: If a man is planning to leave his present wife, as long as he has agreed with the other woman on marriage, can they have sex?

what do you have to say about this!!!

If a man is "planning to leave his present wife" and has been sleeping with another woman, promise to marry her or not, he has committed fornication.

shahan:

Nne. . hee-hee

Kia-kia, copy that phone number before mr admin remove the post by mistake!

_{Em, samy-young, brace up and start fasting now O - she's not that easy to win with one sentence!}

Not interested. I'm sure he does not meet my requirements

goodguy:

, I'm sure it will sound stupid to you if anyone tells you the word "quick" actually means "alive".

I'm quite aware that quick ALSO means alive. However, to truly understand certain things in the Bible are said, it's best to study the root meaning of the word, and also the context of the entire passage of scripture.
Wouldn't you agree?

goodguy:

But let's just say, for argument sake, that I agree with you here.

Has hell frozen over?

I read the article, and I have a question for you, exactly what does[b] "unmarried persons IN a marriage contract" [/b] mean.

I think what they were trying to say is married persons in a marriage contract, must have been a typo. Apart from that, there is no reference to pre marital sex with one partner as being fornication.

Extract from the same article:

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

context definition of FORNICATION: Illicit sex - which means unlawful, illegal or NON CONVENTIONAL sexual activity for example harlotry, incest, homosexuality etc etc etc.

Any sex before marriage is PRE marital sex
Any sex after marriage is POST matrimonial sex.

Does not mean PRE marital sex with the one you're committed to and monogamous with is a SIN.

Nice article though, thanks.

@Trini_Girl

I am proud of you and your answers. go and get them girl

Lol! Thanks Rev I think

Extract from an article:-

FORNICATION: "Going after Strange Flesh"[size=10pt][/size]

In the New Testament, "fornication" translates the Greek word porneia ("harlotry" or "prostitution", which Paul and others use broadly to include any illicit sexual activity.

Thus adultery, bestiality, homosexuality, incest, and rape, against all of which there are scriptural laws, are biblically acts of fornication, or, to borrow a phrase from the Letter of Jude (1:7), "going after strange flesh."

In Ezekiel illicit sex is almost in a class by himself (see EZEKIEL: TALKING LEWD WOMEN), though certainly the other Old Testament prophets as a group have plenty to say on the subject (virtually always as a metaphor of Israel's unfaithfulness to Yahweh; see HARLOTRY: "A-WHORING AFTER OTHER GODS:

In the New Testament's book of Revelation, John of Patmos portrays imperial Rome (called "Babylon" as "the great LovePeddler" and "mother of harlots," with whom "the kings of the earth have commited fornication" (17:1-5).

End of extract


Fornication in the old testament was defined as a metaphor for people of God going after false Gods (idolatry) - whoring around with false gods, when God is the husband of the church.

The new testament shows it as the physical equivalant to such behaviour - whoring around and having illicit sex with whosover will.

@trini

I will be last in line behind those of you guys who watch porn, lust after the chick in the choir, lust after the chick on the street, lust after the MAN on the street, masturbate, have sex outside of marriage, masturbate, lie, slander your brothers and sisters, curse, neglect to pray, judge others, don't forgive, offend others (whew! getting tired), and yeah, did I mention masturbate, you hypocrites!

and what makes you assume masturbationis sin since the bible is mute about it. that puts you in the league of those who say fornication = pre marital sex which i fully agree with. I'ma drop my points tomorrow, going out!

trini_girl:


Why are you people trying to back me in a corner to say if it is a sin or not, am I God?

If fornication is a sin, and pre marital sex is the opposite of fornication , then u tell me , is pre martial sex a sin?

I will say it again, if you are in a committed loving monogamous, long term relationship, then having sex is NOT fornication.

So far, no one has solidly shown me an argument that proves otherwise.

No!!! you certainly are not God!!!
When did pre marital sex became the opposite of Fornication? And by that Voodoo logic, Eureka!! pre marital sex is NOT a sin.
So having a marriage commitment from your partner automatically makes it Ok to engage in sex with him/her? that is what i have garnered so far from the poster. my response, UTTER RUBBISH!!!
Outside the Institution of marriage, ALL sexual acts are of a fornicating nature, no exception!
An easy demonstration: couple decide to get married, so its now ok to have sex. Man gets killed in an accident before the marriage. was the sex prior to mans death fornication? or was it just pre marital sex as defined by poster?
And what if later she was to get married to a second guy, and he was to ask, if she has ever had sex, given that she has never married. In which of the slots that the poster is trying to create should that particular relation go? would it be pre marital sex? but wait the marriage never took place, so it cannot be pre marital. wrap your mind around this one.

If a woman or man has been screwing each other for a long time, say a few years or even a few months, what is the hold up? Just get married to get rid of the worry on weather or not what they are doing is a sin. It will be an even worse sin if they are lying to their self that they will soon be married and yet never do so.

If to this day, they are still having sex, they should stop lying to their self and stop lying to God. The man is having the milk with out purchasing the cow and the woman would be a stone fool to keep giving the man some if her intensions are to become married. The man already knows how good the womans stuff is, now he can wait until marriage to get it again.


Go and repent, then never screw again until the day you are married

God forgives you if you admit your sin and repent right

trini_girl:

However, to truly understand certain things in the Bible are said, it's best to study the root meaning of the word, and also the context of the entire passage of scripture.
Wouldn't you agree?

Of course I agree.  As stated earlier, trying to pinpoint this word [fornication] without examining the passage in question is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

trini_girl:

I read the article, and I have a question for you, exactly what does[b] "unmarried persons IN a marriage contract" [/b] mean.

I think what they were trying to say is married persons in a marriage contract, must have been a typo. Apart from that, there is no reference to pre marital sex with one partner as being fornication.

My aim here is just to make you realise that premarital sex = fornication.  I cannot possibly tell you what the writer means exactly, but from all I can gather, I think that phrase is referring to those that are unmarried, but are committed to each other (using your own words now).

I don't believe that was a typo.  If actually they meant to write "married", they would rather describe the act as "adultery" instead of "fornication".

trini_girl:

Extract from the same article:

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

context definition of FORNICATION: Illicit sex - which means unlawful, illegal or NON CONVENTIONAL sexual activity for example harlotry, incest, homosexuality etc etc etc.

Any sex before marriage is PRE marital sex
Any sex after marriage is POST matrimonial sex.

Does mean PRE marital sex with the one you're committed to and monogamous with is a SIN.

You're twisting things here.  The word is said to have three possible meanings.  Out of these three meanings, you have chosen to deal with just the first meaning, which even opposes your very stance on this issue.  Your PRE and POST marital sex explanation would only be valid if you had picked on the second meaning.

Look at it this way:

Fornication - PREmarital, illicit sex

Adultery - Marital, illicit sex

Note:  Illicit also means "disapproved of or not permitted for moral or ethical reasons".

That article does not imply in any way that pre-marital only has to do with do halotry.  The prefix 'PRE' is clear enough.  So long the sex is BEFORE marriage, then it's a sin. 

Moreso, going by your definition (funny how you agree with the dictionary this time), how come the same 'illicit' is also applicable to adultery?  If I understand you clearly, you mean so far a woman, though married, is also committed to someone else apart from her husband, then 'POSTmarital' sex is not a sin afterall?  Having sex with someone you're committed to isn't a sin, abi?  And no, she's not being polygamous, because she's married to just one man, but only committed to another.

trini_girl:

Nice article though, thanks.

You're welcome.

trini_girl:

Fornication in the old testament was defined as a metaphor for people of God going after false Gods (idolatry) - whoring around with false gods, when God is the husband of the church.

The new testament shows it as the physical equivalant to such behaviour - whoring around and having illicit sex with whosover will.

You're just making me repeat myself.  Agreed, your explanations are right, but Fornication in either the Hebrew or Greek can have and denote a wide range of definitions (not just those that you've been citing. . get that into your head! ). It can mean literal fornication (the type that occurs between two unmarrried people in a marriage contract), adultery, harlotry, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or any other sexual restriction that God has placed for mankind to observe.

Note that literal fornication is distinguished from harlotry, incest, bestiality, and the others that you think are the only synonyms for fornication.

Omo, I tire for you o!

Trini gal since you really want to have premarital sex so bad ive got alot of friends im sure they'd thank me forever.!!!!

Anyways to be serious about it go thru this carefully,



First, notice how strongly the New Testament speaks out against sexual sins:

"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." (1 Corinthians 6:18-20)

"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people." (Ephesians 5:3)


"We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died." (1 Corinthians 10:


"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:


The above passages tell us to flee from sexual immorality and not allow even a hint of sexual immorality in our lives. These are strong words, so it is important that we make the right decision about premarital sex.

@ goodguy

I tire too

Let's just agree to disagree on this one 

See you around my brother

Alright my sister.


God bless.

Funny topic,

Let's get it right this time and close this ish,

Premarital Sex and Fornication ARE NOT the same,

Of course they aren't, The difference Their Spellings

@author
nice way to get a very cheap popularity on nairaland, sure u got our attention

I really do think we are adults to know the answer to this question. Its individual specific thats the answer.

Now, i have a question. Here it goes!  If a man and a woman meet and fall in love, then after a while they get married and start having hot passion sex like the one i am envisaging between Trini baby and myself. So after a while they found out that they are no longer compatible then got divorced. They both go their different ways and along the line they found other partners, got married and sex continues then got divorced again and the process continues in a cycle. Would you call this fornication?

Paul said, if you behave unseemly toward your virgin and both of you are of age, do what you will with her and marry her. This is not a sin.But if on the other hand they did not get married they stop what they are doing and of course the man can continue until he eventually marries one of them.

Trini baby

i believe you have right to your own belief and opinion and rightly so. But i feel what you are saying and I also know that there are many people here who agree with what you are saying but you know our culture now, hypocrisy!!! The only thing I know is that God can take care of his own thing but the problem only arise when we want to do things for God or try to defend him.He definitely do not need this. Not in the least. Let us do our own thing and let god do his own and also help us with our own.

Still me

osegwu:

Now, i have a question. Here it goes!  If a man and a woman meet and fall in love, then after a while they get married and start having hot passion sex like the one i am envisaging between Trini baby and myself. So after a while they found out that they are no longer compatible then got divorced. They both go their different ways and along the line they found other partners, got married and sex continues then got divorced again and the process continues in a cycle. Would you call this fornication?

Divorce is only allowed when a man committs adultry and on other major grounds. u cannot marry a wife and divorce her for not washing the dishes, then go marry someone else and then sleep with her, that is FORNICATION ! Fornication is sexual intercourse between a man and woman who are not married, or any form of sexual behaviour considered to be immoral basically. so i will highly suggest you don't justify yourself with all this worldy things, do the right things because it written in black and white, fornication is a sin !!!

Is it not written in the OT that a woman committing adultery should be stoned to death?
That solves the problem of marring another woman,.
The part about till death do us part. who started it?
Anyway i have learned here that i can **** as long as i want ,as long as am not married its okey. I only have to beg forgiveness after that,.