Yes Rev, they didn't get the Idea for the movie "Planet of the apes" where apes rule over the humans, for nothing.

lol !! Rev

@Reverend,

When are you gonna stop monkeying around .

No more monkey business

I just love those baboons, they are my favorite monkey.


Rev, where did you get those pics at?

@Babyosisi

Sister i was awaiting your input on the issue of Women Pastors.

According to the bible the issue is very clear. Women Pastors are wrong, infact very wrong. There is no amount of twisting the bible or saying that people are misunderstanding some bible passages that will make female pastors, bishops, etc right.

I enjoy your posts so i think i know ur stand on Female pastors. If female pastors are ok with you,i dont think anybody should fault Trini girl coz she even has more substance to prove her case than any body who is justifying Female pastors and try to make others think that there is nothing wrong with it from the bible.
Its intresting to me that you are staunch on this issue and you say  the bible does not change but  then you adopt a different stance when it comes to females taking a lead role in worship, something the bible is even more clearly against.

N/B Babyosisi, no malice intended. This is ur Imo state brother

i really dont post that much in the religion section but i found that thread intresting. I found it even more intresting that people would take one stunch stand and accuse others of trying to justify something that is supposedly 'wrong' from a text, but then the next post,they justify what is even more 'wrong' from the same text.

Just a thought people

@Trini-girl

I enjoy your posts so i think i know your stand on Female pastors. If female pastors are ok with you,i don't think anybody should fault Trini girl because she even has more substance to prove her case than any body who is justifying Female pastors and try to make others think that there is nothing wrong with it from the bible.
Its intresting to me that you are staunch on this issue and you say the bible does not change but then you adopt a different stance when it comes to females taking a lead role in worship, something the bible is even more clearly against.

See, I told you the chances of other topics from other threads not being mentioned in another thread is zero to none.

@sage

i really don't post that much in the religion section but i found that thread intresting. I found it even more intresting that people would take one stunch stand and accuse others of trying to justify something that is supposedly 'wrong' from a text, but then the next post,they justify what is even more 'wrong' from the same text.

Just a thought people

The perfect description of this type of behavior is hypocrisy coupled with righteousness.


They will find a scripture in the Bible to twist and turn into the perfect way to explain what you just mentioned.


The bible is open to what ever way you want to make comfortable for you or for many of you who are in agreeance with each other, hence a congregation of people who agree.

Hebrews 13:4 - Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.


Bible says

God has never been in the business of lowering his standards for anyone, what we believe does not change who God is or the Truth of his Word. remember that the bible is the word of God. if we claim to be led by the Spirit and what we do contradicts the bible then something is wrong.

Hebrews 13:4 - Honor marriage, and guard the sacredness of sexual intimacy between wife and husband. God draws a firm line against casual and illicit sex.

Bible says (even in a version I don't normally have much truck for ~ The Message)

God is not a killjoy, He designed sex after all, but sex has rules that govern it and when sex is toyed with outside of marriage it becomes meaningless. Sex outside marriage is like giving a loaded shotgun to a 5-year old kid.

Tri babe,

Well a lot of people doesnt claims to be a virgin ,but then you have to be very careful with what the Bible says, Although searching around for virgin could be cumbersome , well i understand you trin but lets call a spade a spade, Fornication is premarital sex in disguise,

TeeMan

Tri babe,

Well a lot of people doesnt claims to be a virgin ,but then you have to be very careful with what the Bible says, Although searching around for virgin could be cumbersome , well i understand you trin but lets call a spade a spade, Fornication is premarital sex in disguise,

TeeMan

sage:

@Babyosisi

Sister i was awaiting your input on the issue of Women Pastors.

According to the bible the issue is very clear. Women Pastors are wrong, infact very wrong. There is no amount of twisting the bible or saying that people are misunderstanding some bible passages that will make female pastors, bishops, etc right.

I enjoy your posts so i think i know your stand on Female pastors. If female pastors are ok with you,i don't think anybody should fault Trini girl because she even has more substance to prove her case than any body who is justifying Female pastors and try to make others think that there is nothing wrong with it from the bible.
Its intresting to me that you are staunch on this issue and you say the bible does not change but then you adopt a different stance when it comes to females taking a lead role in worship, something the bible is even more clearly against.

N/B Babyosisi, no malice intended. This is your Imo state brother

sage dear,I don't remember ever commenting on the female pastor thread.
Since you haven't read my opinion,how do you know where I stand on the issue?
did I make the said comments in my sleep?

My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.

Although I do not condone sex with multiple partners, sex with your boyfriend or fiancee is fine, as long as you are both committed to each other and monogamous.

Having a boyfriend/girlfriend you are committed to is one thing another thing is actually getting married. U r only married to a person unless you have both exchanged rings/vows at the alter or wherever u choose to exchange these vows. Haven said this, having sex with ones boyfriend/girlfriend is to me the same as fornicating.

I'm sorry to say trini girly, but r u a sociologist? this is more like 'i am me and my circumstances'. I am not tryin to b cheeky but i think we can never b sure of the level of commitment unless one actually does give u d ring ( which seals everything)

I mean, lets say for example, one was dating someone for like 5yrs believing he/she is the one in fact everyone tot yes they r getting married ( with them sleeping with eachother o) suddenly the man/woman calls d relationship off, they both go their ways n meet someone else, sleep with this person(s) 2, another one under their belt b that,  marriage didnt come out of it until he/she has slept with about 10 people before they now finally get someone to marry,  i mean; then thats like sleeping around but in a logical n better way (erk!!). I'm not diverting from d original post but ive just got instances whr people are committed to eachother but suddenly just leave each other based on some stupid reasons (im out of love). The point is, the Bible frowns at sex before marriage anything outside that is fornication and the dictionary clearly defines it as voluntary sexual intercourse between persons not married to each other  and also, Fornication refers disapprovingly to any sexual activity outside of the confines of marriage, obviously including pre-marital sex.

Also, from the Bibles point of view, Sex before marriage, pre-marital experience, assuming one is talking of sexual intercourse or perversion of the same, the word of God implies it all by calling it fornication. It knows no exception. It allows none. Renaming fornication does not change the act or remove the consequence. Those who commit fornication, sin (http://www.bible.ca/s-premarital-sex.htm)

Paul said, "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body" I Corinthians 6:18. The body of the believer belongs to God. He has been bought with a price and is to glorify God while in the flesh. Fornication is generally committed. in private. This leads one to believe that, since no one knows, or since the act was committed with a prostitute or call girl, that the sin goes unnoticed and the consequences are allayed. This is just not so. Pre-marital sex? An effort to reach compatibility? An innocent game to play? Not according to the word. God says it is fornication, sin, and those who commit such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. It is not sex which God condemns, but it's misuse outside the marriage bond (http://www.bible.ca/s-premarital-sex.htm)

she's an intelligent woman and already knows it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage,she's only looking for moral support from fellow fornicators and reverend and sista have already given her a pat on the back to ride on.

Calling herself a Christian is where she crossed the line.
No Christian, living by Biblical principles would utter such nonsense.

1 Corinthians 6:18-20 & 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband"

It is implied here that two people of the opposite sex should be joined in marriage to prevent fornication. This implies that sexual intercouse before marriage is a sin. Therefore whether or not fornication or premarital sex mean the same thing, the fact still remains that the bible preaches that man and woman should be married to avoid pre marital sex = sin. Even if the bible did not call it "premarital sex" - it is implied.

it is fornication and my bible tells me so

@babyosisi

You cleverly dodged the point. I said i have followed ur posts for a while so i know enough to say that you are in support females taking the lead in worship, something explicitly condemned in the bible. If you chose to ignore the bibles clear instructions, i am just wondering then why you would quote it so stunchly on another issue. I had always had it it mind to ask you, even though i dont post much on religion, just that these two topics came up simultenously.

I dont fault you or trini girl either. Each of us have what they believe in. But if you must take a stand then you must be consistent with it. If you always say the bible says this or that then you have to stick with it in all religious arguments.

Trini girl made a case, with support to prove it and people are jumping on her. Well assuming we go with human reasoning, Trini girl could make a case that she has to get to know her marriage partner if he satisfies what she wants in a mate. His behaviours, beliefs, attitudes etc. If she needs to know all this about him, then she also has a just reason to find out if he meets her needs sexually. What if after they dont click in a sexual way? Why would she get to know somebody as much as possible in all important areas but then not that important area?

Ok then your (babyosisi) reply would remain the same. That it might make sense to some people but that the bible says it is wrong. Ok good. So irrespective of all meaningful reasoning your basis would be that the bible says it is wrong and people should not try to twist the bible to allow room for anything else. Fine too.
But then comes the problem. The same bible crystally states that women taking the lead in the congregation is very wrong but unless you try to twist it and allow room for that then its clear you ignore the bible wilfully. The same thing you want to accuse trini girl of doing.
If consistency is lacking, then anybody can interprete passages of the bible to fit into what he or she thinks it should mean.

N/B i think both trini girl and Babyosisi has similar views on Ordaining women, but while trini girl is more of an open minded person, which is ok, babyosisi cites the bible as her standard, which is also very good. But then double standards are not a very good thing when talking about religious texts. If you ignore what the bible says in one place, i dont think its a good thing to quote it to try and condemn how somebody else feels about some other issues.

Like i said before i dont fault trini girl or you 4 ur beliefs Just that i had to point out that to you. My views have

On a funny note though, to the feminists out there

I heard some of you guyz think God and the bible are sexist

1 was God sexist by choosing only men in the priestly line

2 men as Levites

3 men as instructors and Teachers in Isreal.

4 by declearing women unclean for a week coz of mensuration

5 women not taking the lead in worship in the general assembly of ancient isreal

6 Jesus choosing only men as his apostles despite having women companions who were with him during his tribulations

7 The early apostles n congregations coz only men handled the affairs

8 Paul and Timothy for there writings

@Trini_girl

Greetings!

It is my belief that pre-marital sex is different from fornication. The verb "to fornicate" is derived from the Greek word
korinthiazomai,a word which was derived from the city of Corinth, where promiscuity and sexual immorality abounded like no where else and the corinthians worshipped the goddess of love (eros), Aphrodite.

There were over 1,000 prostitutes in the temple of Aphrodite, so sexual promisuity was the norm.

In Paul's letter to the Corinthians he admonishes them to flee fornication, meaning avoid to avoid sexually promiscuous behaviour, sleeping with prostitutes, and multiple sex partners.

This is different from pre marital sex.

My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.

Although I do not condone sex with multiple partners, sex with your boyfriend or fiancee is fine, as long as you are both committed to each other and monogamous.

The floor is now open.

its like you ran out of ideas on what to post on this forum. Imagine, shame on you. In 2007, you have discovered that having premarital sex with your boyfriend without marriage(in the hopes of marriage - while the two of you still say you are committed to each other) is not fornication. You have started out in 2007 on a totally wrong foot.

I also heard you are the new Choir-mistress in the church of the false-prophet 'Reverend'. No wonder the two of you are seeing the same visions. shame on both of you.

Ok, lemme ask you one thing:
- You say that a girl having premarital sex with her boyfriend, on the basis of "commitment-to-be-married" to each other is not fornication.

Question: what happens if one of the party decides to break up the relationship. Does it mean that the other just got bleeped?, as in what do you call all the sex they have been having prior to the breakup? exercise? what will be the new adjective for such past-sexual-activity in the wake of a breakup - if its not fornication?

Lets assume the guy breaks up the relationship because he found someone else, by the time he begins to have sex with his new girl-friend based on your principle, would you consider him to have had sex with multiple partners already? or he has suddenly become a virgin again?

and how long is your definition of commitment : 1,2,3-year commitment on a sexual-trip. Did your Bible give you details? pls give us a gist.

And what is the definition of monogamous: one at a time or one in a season? because if you have been having sex with your boyfriend for the past 1-year and now in 2007, you find another one(old things pass away, all things become new), you are still monogamous as long as you keep on having sex with your new boyfriend.

@Kimba

Well there were female judges in the bible like Deborah and they were more or less leaders. Women had lots of housework to take care of, Moses needed someone to cook for him, he won't prophesy and cook at the same time.

Actually women are allowed to teach other women and kids but many parts of the bible does not support their ambitions to become authoritative over men in the church. t-They can do alot in the church other than preaching. There is more to a church than the pastor or the authoritative figure. Most churches know the value of women and keep them around. Whether you preach or not should not, the kingdom of heaven is for everybody. In fact, most churches nowadays are indirectly run by women, there are more important things than preaching, women should pursue that and quit struggling to become priests.

@trini_girl

Give it up, we all know what fornication means, stop trying to dig up the roots. There are many words that have different meanings separate from their roots. I can't begin to enumerate, common sense please.

Here is a little example:

Word Original Meaning
awful deserving of awe
brave cowardice (as in bravado)
counterfeit legitimate copy
girl young person of either sex
guess take aim
knight boy
luxury sinful self indulgence
neck parcel of land (as in neck of the woods)
notorious famous
nuisance injury, harm
quick alive (as in quicksilver)
sophisticated corrupted
tell to count (as in bank teller)
truant beggar



The word silly meant blessed or happy in the 11th century going through pious, innocent, harmless, pitiable, feeble, feeble minded before finally ending up as foolish or stupid.


Buxom began with the meaning obedient and changed via compliant, lively, plump to large breasted.

http://www.krysstal.com/wordname.html

Drop the argument of playing with word roots, we all know what fornication means. Sorry, try harder next time!

Here is another line of argument, try looking for the original Hebrew word instead of English since the Bible was not originally written in English anyway. I assure you that you'll fail though since we all know what fornication means.

Read up here http://www.yrm.org/qna-fornication.htm and it should completely answer your questions. I think I've tried for you.

I cannot say whether pre-marital sex = fornication or not. But the only thing I can say is that as a Anglican fisherman. My church condemn both. It is not ecnouraged.

Let us not go into the english meaning of the word. let us talk as Christian or moslems. What your Bible or koran said about it.

Just as marriages and been redefined to include same sex marriage, does not make a marriages of homo sexual good and honourable.

Bible said we should flee from any apearances of evil. [b] APPEARANCES[/B]
Remember that in the law of moses someone must bear witness against you to be accuses of adultery, but after christ, just look at someone lustful. you are guilty of adultery. Also in the law you will kill your brother to be accused of murder, but in grace, hate your brother, you are guilty of murder.

ONE SENTENCE SUMS IT UP: "IN D LAST DAYS,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
NEED I SAY MORE

mEHN!!!!i can see beein soo close to the united states has jazzed ur brain!!!!im half nigerian,and i think there is really no point to your arguing!!!!!then again ur proli not a christain!!cuz if u were i have to ask wot church u go to, cuz ur preacher shud be shot dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

trini girl suite yourself. fornication=premarital sex=adultery. they're one and the same just with little disparities.youre hell bent anyway so have fun.

Wellll,

If I am headed for hell for such a small thing as an opinion, I will be last in line behind those of you guys who watch porn, lust after the chick in the choir, lust after the chick on the street, lust after the MAN on the street, masturbate, have sex outside of marriage, masturbate, lie, slander your brothers and sisters, curse, neglect to pray, judge others, don't forgive, offend others (whew! getting tired), and yeah, did I mention masturbate, you hypocrites! 

Aren't all these things supposed to be sins too? And far greater sins than self expression!! 

Please you people are funny. 

It all goes back to my question to the de-virgined men that are opening their mouths in defiance.  Those who have already had at least 4 girlfrieds in their "christian" walk and had sex with them.

What's the real issue here?

Are you guys afraid that if my opinion catches on u won't have a nigerian virgin girl on your wedding night, so your incompetencies won't show up?

Are you afraid she will live her life and be happy? Without feeling like if she kisses a guy she loves she's going to hell?
Please! Case in point:- https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-10650.0.html

Anyways, on to more important things.

I am reviewing the only sensible submission to this thread in opposition to my position regarding the Hebrew and Greek root meaning of the word fornication.

I appreciate those of you who have respectfully made contributions either for or against this issue. 

That's it for now! Have a great day! 

trini_girl:

Wellll,

If I am headed for hell for such a small thing as an opinion, I will be last in line behind those of you guys who watch porn, lust after the chick in the choir, lust after the chick on the street, lust after the MAN on the street, masturbate, have sex outside of marriage, masturbate, lie, slander your brothers and sisters, curse, neglect to pray, judge others, don't forgive, offend others (whew! getting tired), and yeah, did I mention masturbate, you hypocrites!

Sister trini_girl, surely your utter confusion is manifest? Don't you realise you are gainsaying yourself by this statement

Lord have mercy.

TV01:

Sister trini_girl, surely your utter confusion is manifest? Don't you realise you are gainsaying yourself by this statement

Lord have mercy.

Au contraire, I said have sex outside of marriage in the context that THEY consider it a sin not me. It's in a list of things THEY consider sinful.

I am quite clear about what I am saying.

*** so now I am utterly confused , I'll add that to your list **

The only thing have to say to trini is that she should believe in the lord Jesus and be saved. Only then will you be saved from the lies and deceptions of the devil. Do so now before its too late.

[b][b]Hey Lady Trini, where did u get your explanation from, it is totally eroneous and from the pit of hell.
hope it is not to justify and then conceal your carnal interset in this deadly act.
Premarital sex = Fornication (immorality). God hates it.
if fornication is an immoral act btw two unmarried people, then Premarital sex is same as fornication, since it (premarital sex) is also btw two people outside wedlock or yet to be husband and wife.[/b][/b]