₦airaland Forum

But it is true that in philippines,the only remaining traces of "Negritos" are mixed or halfcaste of the original natives and the many others who moved into philippines islands over the past 800 years,from india,malaysia,china and more recently,spain..There are lots of europeans and americans in philippines marrying and having children with philippine nationals even today as we speak..There are many other indian ocean and south pacific oacean islands with Negroid tribes,such as solomon island(pacific area) and around indonesia islands,it may be a different story for the ones near malaysia and indonesia as they may show more mix with austronesian as opposed to the chinese mix that is common in the historical Negritos of philippines..Papua.New.Guinea.is.another.intersting.place.of.tribes.who.are.very.similar.to.africans.by.surface.traits....Those.Papua.tribes.show.no.obvious.chinese.traits.but.do.bear.some.similarity.to.the australian.aborigines.other than.the.papua.tribes.have.very.coarse.hair.more.like.africans......even.the.austronesians.are.only.showing.50000.years.evidence.in.the.area.and as such it goes to show that the various forms dispersions of Negritos are between australia and china with a 50,000yr old or more history of migration link to africa

[quote author=TerryCarr][/quote]THANKS MAN.YOUR INFO POST GAVE ME SOME TIPS ABOUT THIS TOPIC THAT I DID NOT HAVE BEFORE.

The good thing is that the info is open to speculation and new research findings...I like the idea that Negritos having been in asia for so long as a unique isolated group would show more collected genetic links to asians and others...I also think that its still quite a good hypothesis to link them to Africa even if the only african genes that have been found in them are for dark skin and coarse hair...The research to test the genes and bones of the negritos come only after more recent modern researchers found the remaining negritos to have all been genetically mingled with chinese and no telling what other genes mingled during the time of islamic migration to south east asia and the trade and sailing routes throughout the south west pacific that has evidence of going on for 3500 years (sailing from south west pacific to hawaii).There is some evidence in ancient chinese scrolls of china commanding fleets more than 5000 years ago to explore and mingle with austronesian people and who knows who else..I like the fact that chinese genes are found in some africans along the indian ocean coast with artefacts of ancient china ware....I would not be surprised if the chinese brought some africans back and left them on any of the scattering of thousands of islands in south west pacific,or a very old migration from africa happened to asia....I stand by the fact that 98% of chimpazee genes are human traits,which leaves maybe 99.9% similarity between all the various forms of humanbeings,AND YET WE STILL TRY TO OUTLINE A DISCONNECTION BETWEEN VARIOUS RACES -BASED ON A LESS THAN 0.1% DIFFERENCE IN GENES....WE DONT KNOW THE EXPRESSION PLACE AND FUNCTION OF SO MANY OF THE FACETS OF THE HUMAN GENETIC SCRIPT,AND CERTAINLY WE DONT KNOW ENOUGH TO BE CONCLUSIVE OF RACIAL DISSCONNECTION WITH THE VERY LITTLE BIT OF GENETIC EXPRESSION/FUNCTION MAP THAT THE BEST GENETICIST HAVE DECIPHERED......nICE INFO EVERY ONE AND TRUELY ANY OF YOU GUYS iDEA IS JUST AS APPRECIATED AS THE NEXT BECAUSE ITS OPEN TO SPECULATION AND FURTHER RESEARCH FINDINGS...THE END RESULT OF A GENE IS A PHYSICAL EXPRESSION ,AND SO I MUST TAKE THE FACE VALUE EXPRESSION OF A PEOPLES WITH THE SAME MERIT AS THE GENES THAT GUIDE THEM...MAYBE IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT,THEN THE GENES ARE THERE WAITING TO BE FOUND ...

THE NEGRITOS WERE FOUND IN THE PHILIPPINES ISLANDS OF ASIA BY THE EARLY COLONIALIST..BEFORE THE SPANISH COLONISED THE ISLANDS,MUSLIMS FROM MALAYSIA AND INDIA HAD BEEN THERE AND MUST HAVE ENCOUNTERED THEM...THE HISTORY OF OF COLONIALIST IN PHILIPPPINES GOES BACK TO THE DAYS OF THE RISE OF ISLAM IN INDIA AND MALAYASIA WITH SULTANS MAKING HOME THERE....THE HISTORY OF THE NEGRITOS GOES BACK TO 0VER 3000 YEARS BY WAY OF ARTEFACTS...tHE ONLY AVAILABLE PHOTOS ARE FROM LATER DAYS WHEN MOST OF THE NEGRO LOOKING ISLANDERS HAD BEEN INTERBRED AS HALFCAST WITH ASIAN PEOPLE ,WHO HAD ALSO MIXED WITH INDIA/MALAYSIAN PEOPLE AND LATER WITH SPANISH BLOOD....PHILIPPINES LANGUAGE IS VERY DIVERSE WITH WORDS FROM ISLAMIC COLONIALIST/INDIA/MALAYSIA AND WORDS FROM SPANISH COLONIALIST AND ENGLISH FROM AMERICAN COLONIALS DURING THE TIME OF WORLD WAR 1......i KNOW A NIGERIAN MAN IN PHILIPPINES WITH A BABY FROM AN ASIAN GIRL AND HIS DAUGHTER IS A HALF CAST THAT LOOKS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE NATIVE NEGRITOS OF PHILIPPINES..tHE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE NEGRITOS WERE VERY SMALL/SHORT PEOPLE UNTIL AFTER GENERATIONS OF MIXING GENES WITH OTHER RACES..TODAY STILL SOME SMALL CURLY HAIRED BABIES ARE BORN TO PHILIPPINE FAMILIES AS A REOCCURANCE OF THE OBSCURE NEGRITO TRAITS........................................[url][/url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf0A7YqFPPs THERE IS A MAJOR ISLAND IN PHILIPPINES WHERE I LIVED FROM FEBRUARY 2010 TO NOVEMBER 2011,THE NAME OF THE ISLAND IS NEGROS ISLAND..IT WAS NAMED SO BY THE SPANISH COLONIST BECAUSE IT WAS THE LAST ISLAND IN PHILIPPINES TO HAVE NATIVE ACTIVE SETTLEMENTS OF "THE LITTLE BLACK PEOPLE" THE CHINESE TRAIT IS VERY COMMON IN PHILIPPINES AND SHOWS IN EVERY NATIVE GROUP OF THE PHILIPPINES,INCLUDING THE NEGRITOS...I NEVER SAW A TRUE NEGRITO THERE,THEY WERE ALL HALFCAST OF HISTORICAL NEGRITOS WHO HAVE ALL MIXED WITH THE OTHER RACES NOW....

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB14pCJUFGo&feature=context-cha [url][/url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSFHAfJtQ6c&feature=context-cha

thats me playing my piano synthesizer at families house back in february..I dont play proffessionally right now,but its a life long hobby of mine[url][/url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlG1N3KHBJw&feature=relmfu HERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT ROUGH VIDEO FOOTAGE OF ME PRACTICEING MUSIC AT HOME AFTER SLEEPLESS NIGHT. sORRY ABOUT SOUND QUALITY AND VIDEO ROUGHNESS BUT THIS WAS NOT DONE ON PUBLIC PRODUCTION CAMERA

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlG1N3KHBJw&feature=relmfu [url][/url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYmQ2HKz8dQ&feature=plcp WE MUST GET IN THE GROOVE FOR THE GOOD OF LIVING...THATS ME PLAYING MY PIANO/SYNTH AT MY FAMILIES HOUSE..

The whole new "INFORMATION AGE" is here,where we can access more information than the old fashioned Universities could provide in 10 years of paying tuition there to learn...More and more internet Info reliant people are disappointed at the way they pay to go university and find that info they saw on television learning channels and internet,are being sold to then at school...Many old fashion education minded people are still yet to understand the computer age bridge of the knowledge gap in the world that used to give only priviledged elites the chance to learn new things and use it to take charge over people,economy and government...........You know i think the NL operating sytems have big problems as is common in Nigerian systems..many of the times people are so called "banned" -maybe comes from the system not being able to handle its automatic processes in good order,and so it blocks out to catch up...

I am in central america right now,we had 7.3 earthquake very nearby..we were lucky in my area to not feel it and the tsunami warning did not come to life...California woke up 2 days ago with earthquakes and over 200 quakes in that area in past 2 days....And just when i commented here concern about "how bad",i am shown "how worse" it can be...I wish you all safe in your life....

Good line of thinking DUDU...I replied above about how the very computer we use to cover this topic, is a product in part of men who dropped out of college to have time to think and develop their own ideas..Now the universities use their inventions and intelectual property as the center of their software oriented degrees..And further,they pay bill gate more money to lecture at university than the highest paid tenured proffessors there...The truth of universities is that they respect independant thinkers and know that much progress in knowledge comes from people who like to think,and not the academic institution...

Dudu_Negro: Terra Cotta,

How can you know what is factual and what is falsehood when you have refused to open yourself to the totality of Yoruba history and origin or the decoding of the meanings behind the words and letters outside of what you were taught in classroom?

Linguistic is not language but rather it is the study of the evolution of language. The root methodology of analysing a tongue was made possible so humanity can benefit from the study and it is left open for further development and creativity. When dumbos like you say the use of a methodology should be exclusive to only the practitioners in the field it says a lot about your understanding of why you even went to school to begin with. Academic work is for progress and not for ego attachment. My use of the root methodolojgy is beneficial because many people can read this thread and undrstand what they did not understand before .

Your linguistic profession and academic laurel is useless to the people in NL if you are not teachibg us what you know and improving our awareness. So I challenge you to serve this community by bringing us your own independent knowledge on the area of language and culture.

The biggest cultural comonality possible for a link to asia from africa does exist in ASIA...I lived in the asian area for 2 years in philippines whose original natives are called "NEGRITOS" as termed by the early spanish colonialist of philippines..They were small black people with the flat noses and also the curly and coarse hair...There are islands in the south asia/south pacific area with People who more qualify as African than any other group of people...These african implants in asia still exist today,go and do foot work in the field and see for yourself...My greatest proffesional teacher told me that his learning really began after he got his PhD and that he knows just as many bright non proffessionals as he does closed minded academically conditioned proffesionals who are more about fraternal reputation and exlusivity...Every comparison possible must be considered by any one who can consider it,for the answers come with every stone turned...Language was not invented by shcolars alone and does not evolve by shcolars alone...I take first hand experience more seriously than academic dictation of a few scholars summary of a limited overview...Please let all contribute what they consider so that we dont become closed minded in a realm of vast possibilities....Go research the negritos of philippines and the 3500 years of artifacts they have left in asia and the Negroid bloodline that still permutates through asian and pacific island peoples growth and language...Oka as in Okari also means prince or king and man in asia areas and pacific island areas also..Thanks for adding that "OKO" info, as it more so strengthens the theory that the words share common link as there is also human genetics and cultural artifacts linking negroids to asia...I will always include religious beliefs in the study of language and politics of ancient times,i do so because in those times,politics,language and religion and education were all one field to those people..How best to know them,than to try to think like them...The inventors of computer software that helps us communicate here,left the university proffessional field to get his head clear of University limitations and rise into his own considerations of software etc,and now there isnt a university that does not depend on Bill gates,steve jobs for running their establishments..Further,bill gates gets paid higher fees to lecture at universities than tenured proffessors do at the universities..its because Bill gates has the more progressive knowledge even without the degree and infact bill gates ideas are the center of what universities offer in many software oriented degrees...There are experts in the field of aeronautics who service USA military who dropped out of university to pursue independent considerations..Now they hire the PhD graduates from the universities and define the fields of study taught in Universities...The Universities know about independent thinkers and respect them as some are the worlds richest men...try to respect independant thinkers also sir...All can be mistaken,even experts,and all can come up with unique correct findings,including non academic institutional thinkers..

TerraCotta: These discussions are fine for speculation but there should be a separation between guesswork and linguistic scholarship. The OP wantd to use established linguistic methodology--root-word analysis, glottochronological relationships etc--but dismisses (or is unfamiliar with) all the conclusions of professional linguistics. There is lots of "disputing the fact that Yoruba is Afro-Asiatic"--the people that specialize in both Yoruba and Afro-Asiatic languages, including those that came up witth the Afro-Asiatic descriptor, do not recognize this relationship.

Facts (as far as they are known now): Yoruba is the largest member of the Defoid (Defoid meaning Ede Ife) branch of the west Benue-Congo languages. It has no known relationship with Afro-Asiatic/Afrasian, and this type of speculation has more to do with religious beliefs than scholarship. there are some historians, like Dierk Lange, who believe that Yoruba and Hausa share roots with Assyrian culture and Canaanite languages but they are far in the minority and aren't taken seriously by most of their fellow scholars.

The poster above who compares Hawaiian languages to Yoruba demonstrates the danger of haphazard comparisons. Okunrin and Okari are unlikely to share roots when there are no geographic or cultural commonalities to explain that connection. On the other hand, okunrin quite likely shares roots with "okoro" in Igbo, okorho in Edo and Urhobo, "Oko" again in Yoruba (and possibly Nupe?), all meaning young man, prince, or husband, and all likely derived from a term in the ancestral language of west Benue-Congo speakers.

I was always interested in the hawaiian word for temple or house which is "HALE" and may even be modern mispronouncing and spelling of the early pacific islanders...It bears so much similarity to the word for house in yoruba "ILE" and the H added even bears resonace to the H-Y words you were describing.....I want to add that the modern word for water seems to have gone far astray from the early "OMI" genotype words...The history i found about "WATER"is from tousands years old tablet in similar script to cuneiform and it was found in TURKEY...The tablet showed the word water as three words linked "WAI","AKWA/AQUA","ITER"..Wai is the chinese and hawaiian word for water still to this day,and Akwa/Aqua is the word for water in spanish and english and other languages still today..."ITER" is related to "INTER" as to put inside..So that old text described "WAI" as the word for water ,and "AQUA" as the word to drink or swallow,and the word "INTER" as the word to put into belly...I dont know the exact age of this few thousand year old story,but i also follow and agree with your story about the word "OMI".."OKANE" is word for man in hawaii,hawaiians have a link to japan from over 3000 years of artifacts..An old japanese word for man is "OKARI"...And of course the word for man in Yoruba is "OKURIN" so very similar evan with the possible many thousands of years gap of relationship between africans and the rest of the world... Keep up the good info NEGRO...we are all learnig here..

Negro_Ntns: This thread was opened to further the discussion on the history and cultural bearing of the Yoruba race. We see here that at the top of our social and cultural heirarchy we are tied to a past history that need indepth inspection . There is no disputing the fact that Yoruba is Afro Asiatic, but in case the above has not cemented it for you, follow me for few more steps to learn of the mysteries behind some words and cultural markers that you hear or witness often but have no idea why they are exclusively with us and no one else.

I will not burden you with over a thousand words and roots I have built up over the years but I have three very important areas of spiritual beginning I want you to contemplate on.

1. The first one of these is water, the origin of creation and sustainer of life. Science has repeatedly disputed the creation theory and replaced it with the big-bang theory........yet every space mission they ever sent into outer space, manned or robotic, has landed with the mission to find water and life; at very exhorbitant cost. So the relevance of water in the creation of life on earth is afterall valid and important. So then what is water?

In Old Testament which was written in classic Hebrew water is given the root A-M-M. From this root we get the semitic word for mother - Umm or Umma. So like water, the essence of motherhood is tied to the attributes, first , of creating life, and second, of sustaining it. The root for life is H-Y. The proto-semitic word for life is Hay or Chai.

In Yoruba water is Omi, from same root as Umm. Life is Aiye, from same root as Hay. Mother is Iya or Iye, representing her attribute for sustaining and nurturing life. The water essence is represented in Iyemoja.

2. The second one is manifested presence and willpower, represented by the root T-L which in old Hebrew is Atala. It stands for foundation or a new order or beginning. The change agent that brings security and assurance. Its essence is connected to earth and buried treasures.

In Yoruba this is called Atele - like atele owo or atele ese. It is said that the palm of the hand yields secrets about one's life treasures. From it we also get Otele - the act of walking the earth's surface. It is under the influence of Obatala.

3. The third one addresses not just those who say Yoruba is native to its present land but as well to persuade those who say the commonality of culture and language between Yoruba and say Arab or any other proto-semitic group is due to word donations resulting from religious contact and Islamic scholarship. I hope I am able to convince you contrary to that claim.

Let's look at the ritual of animal sacrifice or burnt offering to God, called Olah in old Hebrew. The corresponding root is A-L-H. They call it Aliyah and the meaning is "ascension to (or moving to) Israel".

It would appear from this that the corresponding Yoruba term, Ileya (which precisely means "it's time to go home), had been in usage and culture of the Yorubas and in connection with sacrificial offerings to God long before Islam took root on thdir land. Which home are the Yorubas referring to when they say Ileya, coild it be Israel?

I opened a topic not long ago inviting families or people who were born and grew up in Apa Tira area of Lagos to join me in discussion. Apa is used in the context of a ward or area to mean a "branch". Tira in Yoruba is Torah - the Jewish scripture of Old Testament. Apa Tira would then mean a branch or part of town occupied by the observers of Torah.. Who are the tribes of Israelite among us?.

The word "DURO" in yoruba appears in spanish and would seem to relate to portugese influence as spanish is very similar to portugesa..But i have to include that in spanish,the word Duro means tough and hard as it also evolved into english for words like "ENDURE" "DURABLE"...in Yoruba it means wait or stop or stay..In spanish,the word for wait is "esperar" and the word for stop or stay is "alto"...This stil leaves mystery to the yoruba word "DURO" until i saw program of hindu priest reading from hindu holy book of thousands of years ago...He read the word for prayer as "DUA" which reminded me of the word "DURA" as in "ADURA"= prayer in yoruba,that is too similar to be coincidence..It became interesting and linked to the word "DURO" when he described the hindu form of prayer as different from other religions as they tend to meditate or so to say "STOP","WAIT" and "STAY" the mind and body for the spirit to come forward...And prayer is the old prehistoric way of humans finding "ENDURANCE" for this sometimes "TOUGH" and "HARD" world where our own human strength cannot suffice....It leads me to a place of beliveing that yoruba words "DURO" and "ADURA" have an ancient link to a common meaning which also links to the same words and meanings as far away as India as long ago as thousands of years ago....The link between hebrew words and practices and India is also established...These are links to yoruba that predate modern english and spanish or the roman empire (or even younger christianity or Islam) that did so much to influence modern spanish,portugese and english......Yoruba is interesting language with linguistic artifacts pointing to a far more diverse history than can be found in the formal records of official Yoruba History

Maybe this month i hear of more mass murder in USA than i did of murders in Nigeria....Maybe boko haram is not the real terror of the world...Maybe now the average looking American single guy is the real terror,able to gun down in theaters,business places,shcools,etc.....we dont even get any demands or claims of what the victims did,its just random kill,kill,kill,and go or suicide etc...Ah,maybe na time for all to move to Naija(pounded yam with good pepper stew will cure insanity better than McDonalds)...Have not been spending much time in USA lately and so maybe that was the unseen plan for my well being??

It interesting that major devastating volcanic eruptions that darkened the whole world with ash clouds for up to ten years are dated to have occured during most popular human migrations of nations ,like isreal out of egypt at the same time as south pacific islanders sailed into the great ocean to resettle in hawaii and their migration history dates to the same as isreal out of egypt and the eruption of mega volcano in mediteranean area..The two accounts from hawaii and isreal talk of a time of darkness upon the earth and the volcanic research shows ash being spread throughout the world in clouds from that time.....there is also 1500 years ago at the time of islam birth when arabia settlements fell into squalor making room for islams leader to rise to the peoples aid and islam was born..Its time coincides with the fall of King Aurthur England kingoms fall and disappearance and also a second hawaiian immigration in a second time of darkness with a second mega volcano dated to have erupted same period,where king aurthur england history talks of the sky turning black for years and rivers turn to blood colour as does the history in Egypt/isrealites and hawaiians talking of the time of darkness on earth....Its true,the world changes drastically around entire nations leading them to "FEAR" and it motivates them to amazing feats of migration and spiritual/religious changes.... any yoruba speaker in Nigeria is good for learning about yoruba and we never know who we are going to meet on any website such as Nairaland...I also got storys off of google,youtube ETC.. and i have stories now from NL negro dudu that dont readily show up on youtube and google...Every location and every person is an oppurtunity to learn or at least review what we learned in life

Hey i like your Info..I was trying to suggest myself that Yoruba words spread across the world from africa long before islam or christians existed,even though i still believe a few arabic words were brought to naija more recently....I have other words to consider like DURO and OJU and so on that show up in other languages from india to europe...Ah write more info if you can,i like to learn/study language history..No worry to me if you disagree with some of my thoughts, i am no expert and love the subject and dont mind learning more from you.. Its true,so much yoruba history is hidden in Nigeria in Oyo and Bini strong holds...I heard one keeper of yoruba ancient info say that he has seen stories that talk of 10,000 years of yoruba history... its interesting thathe also said it was in "cylinder" encryptions,the same as hindu and hebrew knowledge was stored

Dudu_Negro: Naia,

I read your entire post and I wrote a lengthy reply but lost it unforrunately so here is another attempt at it.

The earlier thread you referenced here was discussing the commonality of Yoruba and Arabic words and it gave credit to Islam and scholars from Hausa, Fulani and Mali and so on as responsible vehicles for the word and diction donations. If you look in that thread you will see my response and in which I categorically claimed that these common words in Yoruba pre-existed Islam in Africa. These words have existed in the Yoruba language and as part of the spoken tongue long before Islam in Arabia, we have spoken these words far earlier before Hausa, Fulani or Mali knew Islam. Hausa and Fulani and Mali may have adopted into their tongue words such as "alubosa", "alubarika", "alafia", "asiri" and so on from Islamic influence on their land and culture but that is not the case with Yoruba. These words were already native to Yorubas before Islam came to Africa or before it was even founded in Arabia. I want to point out that there thousands of words in Yoruba language that have roots and meanings in semitic tongues, particularly old Hebrew which does not even exist in either of Hausa, Fulani or Mali.

Every word beginning with "Al" in the Yoruba language has root in old Hebrew. Even words beginning in "B" mostly are rooted in old Hebrew..

Baale ...... Head of Village i
Bale Ile.....Head of household
Baba......Father or Elder
Bere......Begin or Start or Origin
Bere or Ibere ....... Question, make plain or probe

Then there are words in Yoruba that have voluntary or involuntary function, example, "ri" (to see), which is involuntary; versus "wo" (to look), which is voluntary, and there are very many of such involuntary words that also derive from semitic roots. Ri itself is derived from Ra'a (Hebrew for see or gaze). If Islam was the donor of these words then we should not find them occuring in Ifa corpus at all but if you look in the odus you see mny of these words chapter after chapter. Now, here I would like to make a revelation,, actually two.

1. Ale for night is a common word between Yoruba and Arabic and derives from the semitic root L-Y-L Ashale (dark of the night) in Yoruba also derive from semitic root and is a combination of Ish and Alayl, the same combination that gave birth to the Arabic word Isha (dark of the night), from which the Muslim prayer of "Isha" was designated.

2. Ogboni is the fraternal order of the cosmic earth and a Yoruba priesthood order. They are primarily the custodians and stewards of the Yoruba cosmological belief system. They are responsible for social order and esoteric rituals in all of Yorubaland. All of the mysteries and the doctrines of the sacredness of life and nature as spelt out in the Ifa manuscript is endorsed by them and the legacy of its veiled nd unrevealed mysteries is guarded by the order. A Babalawo or Ifa practitioner is also a custodian of these mystries. The difference between the two is that Babalawo deals with the individual at a consultative level, whereas Ogboni is universal and deals with the society as a whole and its relationship, positive and negative, as a net balance with the forces of earth or nature. Ogboni in Yorubaland is an ancient order and the origin of the name is "Awgan" or sometimes spelt as "Awgen". It is also where Ogbeni came from as well as Agba. It also gave birth to the Roman name Eugene.

In the old world, Egypt was the land of esoteric and mystical scholarship. Mesopotamians and the Akkadiansand Babylonians went there to learn the secrets of nature and the mystery of creation and life. Every Prophet of God touched foot into Egypt. Awgen was an Egyptian, he was the foremost esoteric teacher and ended up in Assyria, most likely through wars, where he established an order in the stewardship of earth mysteries. His followers were largely fthose devoted in the study of divine truths but he was also believed to have enrolled farmers and hunters. Subsequently when Rome rose as an Empire and defeated and looted Assyria, long after Awgen had passed, the Awgan Order and Fraternity had blossomed and Rome adopted its teachings and modeled its own fratrnity after that of Awgan. I am to a large degree convinced that Awgan is same person as Ogun, but I am still reading up on him and cannot declare him to be Ogun yet. Wole Soyinka's comparison of two characters of Ogun in Yoruba mythology and Roman/Greek mythology is evident of who Awgan might be. . . .. . .and it is even solidified in the fact that the Romans also adopted the name and called it Eugene. Although their Eugene does not have same reference in culture that our Ogun does.

Now, let me speak to your claim that Yoruba is Bantu and the common words migrated outward from a central location in Bantuland to as far out as Arabia. I respectfully disagree with that notion. The culture and language co-share between Yoruba and other people belonging in the Bantu category is a wide gap and there is far less common words and meanings found between Yoruba and any Bantu speaking tongue than there are common words and meanings between Yoruba and Arabic or other proto-Semitic groups. A people is defined by nativity. When people migrate their nativity migrates with them and though they end up in new assimilations, their legacy and antiquities remain part and parcel of their customs, rituals, tongue and creeds. Such is the case for the Yorubas. Their rituals and tongue, worship and cosmological philosophy as well as arts and antiquities shares more in common with people outside the Bantu region than it does with them.

More disclosures will bs revealed on these truths when the Katanga project fully takes off. Archeologists and Historians are interested in the capital of Old Oyo. They believe given what has been revealed so far about Yoruba a new study and intrest is needed using contemporary tools and techniques and letting Katanga reveal what is buried underneath its soil.

Speaking of soil I want to revisit the Ogboni order and talk about the Edan. The Edan itself is an anchor. . ...it is symbolic and though many people mistake it for a piece of artwork but in actuality it is not art but rather a tool or instrument of altar worship. Again here, it is difficult not to assign its significance and reference back to the time of Eden and the mystery of the essence of duality in the creation of man and woman. I will stop here.

Cheers :-)

all looking for an expression of rebellion,hip hop,rock and roll,or going to join Boko haram? hip hop makes youngsters feel tough and wealthy without the weight of much responsibility

I am learning spanish now and the word "DURO" is a spanish word also..It means tough or hard in spanish...I remeber once in aprogram of jewish woman in Hungary during 1945 she as calling for someone to stop and she said "Dario,Dario",and the caption translated as stop.."duro in yoruba means stop or stay or wait,but in spanish wait is "esperar",and stop is "alto"...So the same word is in spanish but different meaning...The word "Duro reminded me of the word "Dura" as in "Adura",the yoruba word for pray...I began to think its related when i heard in aprogram about India and the hindu religion..There was a priest telling the story of the ancinet books of priset from 1000´s of years ago and he said the ancient word for pryer or meditation was "DUA",it reminded me od "Adura" in yoruba..I began to see relation ship between "Duro" and "Adura",when the hindu priest said that their word for prayer was "DUA" and that their prayer was notlike christiansor islam but meditation where they will Stop and Stay the body and mind to sense the spirit of being with their good and so theyjust stay quiet and still stopping everything they can....So they do associate prayer with stop and stay.................. So tiday i group words like Endurance,durable,adura and duro as related....Duro in spanish means tough and hard,and as it may not seem to mean the same as stop ,stay or endure,you must consider that the semantics of endure and Duro in spanish can include "staying power","waiting through changes of time","staying the course"..Even the act of praying connotes act of staying ,stoping and enduring asit is practiced for Edurance in a sometimes Tough and Hard world....Its all related......I need to get a portuguese dictionary to see if the word "DURO" in yoruba came to Naija with portugeuse who have very similar language to spanish....any one one know portugeuse language well

Shaw007: Whoa!! Strange. . .not strange like strange perse but,things like dis dont really happen in this parts at least,i understand d ocean can cross its boundary absolutely normal. . .but,wasnt there some kind of earthquake or fault or sometin 2 have caused this??,is this like a mini-tsunami or sometin??

My first thought was the same as yours but also sometimes it can come from distant bad winds in the ocean...I Searched on a web site "Latest earthquakes in the world-past 7 days." Just type that into google or so and there is a USGS (united states geological survey) list of all the significant quakes in the world..I checkit every day........The list shows an earthquake in the mid atlantic fault right on same latitude as nigerian coast..It was 5.2 quake aug 17 and is big enough to make small surge to reach lagos and even delta coastal regions.The 1st report was august 18, so maybe it was from august 17 event which took many hours to reach lagos..It is possible that offshore underwater ridges near lagos could have swelled the surge into lagos area....This is not an official report,only my own independant considerations....Be safe you ocean dwelling people and maybe Naija government has been right to remove all the waterfront settlers in lagos..I hope the government will offer alternative resettlement and not just evict them to wander lost....

Tolaaaaannni: umm, Im sorry i couldn't read your entire post. You shouldn't have bunched it all together like that, you should have made it have paragraphs. I got a headache just by looking at it.

Sorry about that..I posted another topic yesterday and it was a bit long and it was lost nowhere to be seen on this site...I would spend more time trying to write more elaborate Font and spread,buti have to stick to quick chat mode, even in long topics because so many times my efforts to be neat and easy reading are lost enroute and i only have less than 2 hours a day on internet to read and post on up to 6 web sites some times...I try but its not easy to take my time when i have little time on line...

I always learned to use the word DURO in yoruba to mean wait or stop or stay...It occured to me years ago that it was similar to a word i heard on a program of jewish woman in hungary calling for someone to stop and she said "DARIO".It then occured to me that it has similar meaning connotation in english words like duration,durable,endure etc...For something to be durable,it has the power to stay through forces of change as in "staying power" is to endure....I have been learning spanish now and my dictionary says the word "DURO" is spanish and means tough and hard which also connote the meaning "staying power"..The common word for wait or stop in spanish is "esperar" for wait and "alto" for stop or halt...I consider that it is possible that DURO was a word added to yoruba by the Portugeuse whose language is very similar to spanish and are direct neighbours to SPAIN...But i began to question when i found relationship to the word "DURA" in yoruba as it is used to connote prayer, as when said "ADURA"=prayer.."GBADURA"=to carry prayer or to pray....I found a program in India where the priest was giving lecture on his religious culture and said that the very ancient word from their ancient text of thousands of years age ,for prayer,is "DUA" ,and that their Idea of prayer is not like the western world,but as a meditation where they "STOP" and "STAY" the body and the mind from the external world....That is the primordial essence of prayer,to STOP and STAY the mind and body and give to endure in the higher power of spiritual cultures....So i begin to believe "DURO","ENDURE","DURA/ADURA","DUA", are all related to the same original word and meaning.Every religion and culture begins prayer by first STOPPING AND STAYING and they do so for ENDURANCE in this often HARD/TOUGH world...I dont think its coincidence that the meaning of hard and tough in spanish is "DURO" or that to pray as building of strength and endurace is called "ADURA" in yoruba or "DUA" in hindu language or that to stop and stay or wait is "DURO" in yoruba....I must find a portuguese meaning of DURO and if it is the same as yoruba DURO,then i will accept that it was brought by portugeuse...If its not the same meaning,then i will consider it a word from africa that migratd thousands of years ago to find its place in India and Europe...Maybe some one here has portuguese language reference for the word

ah this information reminded me of last year when i was in asia area and there was also unusual cold weather in areas from india to philippines..it was not so cold as it gets in europe or USA or china etc,but it was colder than most people from that area ever knew..It caused many to get sick and some to die whileliving outdoors in what should have been hot..After that news,the year ended with the worst flooding that part of the world had seen in 50 to 100 years....It is possible the same pattern of flooding may reach africa this year after the signs given by this cold spell...Thailand,china,australia,philippines,India,pakistan,vietnam/cambodia/laos, all were awash with unusual amounts of flood after the unusual cold in the region months earlier during last weather years events

Tony Spike: That's quite a lot of research you have up there, sir. Talking about the language and tonal variations around the world, I read recently that Africa has largest variety of tonal inflexions compared to other parts of the world. This revelation could also confirm that migration started from Africa. On a serious note, I support physicsQED's assertion that language is a continuum, knowing where it all started is a pretty wild guess, but Africa is a highly probable starting point.

Its all a continuum and recycles into itself over long periods of time where there are always older migrations overlapping newer migrations making the mix really extensive beyond any real trace to an original form..But its true that africas diversity in languages and cultural groups is a sign of lots of time in africa with prehistoric Bantu language being the most proven source of all african languages with estimates 200,000 years back..To say that they were even known by the name bantu so long ago is not right,but we use the names we can link them to without a doubt,and that can take credit away from other current tribes like khosian that show history going far back even if they also did not go by that modern name so long ago.Maybe they were one tribe 200,000 years ago by another name other than bantu or khosian....Its proven very well that we are all linked by language and genetics and thus its not esy to explain the links without infering that the originator of one culture was "this one" and not "that one" all going by a tribal name that may not have even existed at the time in question...we continue to mix across the world and that will make a different story for far future if the world last longer still...

Pidgin is spoken in hawaii,jamaica and belize which all had english speaking colonialist..Hawaii pidgin is much different than naija but the pattern of brokeness is the same...Jamaica and belize is the same as the overall carribean style and it is very much different but still a british influence like naijas---Any country in the world where english speaking colonialist spent much time disgracing the locals language,the locals did adopt a form of pidgin which mimicks most of the worlds indigenous language grammar syntax but with english and other colonials words infused....The truth is that modern proper english is a for of Pidgin that mixes improperly the words of many different languages..The modern English only has to its credit as being the tounge of the ones who were the leaders in the world conquest and thereby in control of speech and thereby in control of communication and how people organize themselves---There is no language on earth that is not a form of pidgin from other older languages...

Dont forget that the genes people carry in their bodies are used to date migrations and relationships in ancestory and that helps to subside some of the mysteries that come about with just following language...Genes have a unique way of being dated through mitochondrial DNA and can date back the 200,000 year mark and so can languages be put through a process that gives an estimate to their early forms date...The african languages have varieties or forms that link to every corner of the globe..Outside africa,the nuber of dialects is not so high except in few places..So the most basic method for rateing the age of a language,is to date the peoples history at the location or on the continent and then to asses the number of dialects assosiated with their ancestory...It takes time for dialects to evolve and so africa is given merits for age in language because of that, and also for artefacts of early inhabitants...None of the Hyksos or latin circle cultures have very wide range of dialects...The asians do have wide range of dialects but not as diverse in styling, but the asians are finding artifacts to place themselves there well beyond 200,000 years,Tonal language forms are another aspect of asian and african languages and possible a trait from before 50,000yrs..There is not really any thing to trace a distinct culture with a modern name ,beyond 200.000 years ,or even any language beyond 200,000 years..I will try to look up again the name of the system used to date languages as i was taught when i studied anthropology course in university...Not many peolpe know how to calculate in that sytem because it takes immense linguistic exposure....African speakers would make the best linguist in the world if the could easily travel the world and be interested in the subject

the various tribes of africa cannot be summarized by what is most available in researched history..Researched history becomes so dim as time goes further back and summarizing bantu people migrations by language distributions has to go back 50 thousand years where language history in Africa is estimated around 200,000 years....It must be considered that before the Islamic crusades sent migrations across africa even through the time of Mansa Musa more recently,there were migrations around africa during the drying out of the great lakes of the sahara of which lake chad is one of the last...The misterious Nok people would provide missing links of migrations and then 4000-6000 year old settlements found across southern nigeria,the saharah has so much buried truth under it as latest satelite imaging from NASA has shown...The bantu or any other tribal group may not have been known by the modern BANTU name if we consider 50,000 year old history and the number of migrations around africa that have happend in that time...50,000 yr old migrations are linked from africa to asia where words similar to yoruba and other african languages flourish,like the word OKURIN in yoruba for man:as the word OKARI in japanese for man and not to mention the many dialects of china..The word Okari has even migrated from japan through the pacific into hawaii where it trans morphed to the word Okane for man and King...Its not enough to learn one african language to see the extent of african language migration globally..Even from yoruba alone,i have to consider several yoruba dialects to compare to old english and latin based words..Phono as in phonate to make a sound has no real counterpart in yoruba but Say or sound has counter part for "so" which means say in youruba..S and O are the primary cognates for the word sound and say and sonic...In my fathers Akure Ondo state dialect,they say "fon" for "so" and it means the same as in to say or sound..."fon" is also the primary cognate for phono or phonate....The "SO" version is more germanic with cognates such as sound,say,sonic,spiel,speak etc all retaining the early roots by starting off with the S as the primary cognate....the "fon" version is related to the latin language with phono,phone,phonate ,etc....There are too many of these types of cognate relations to european,asian languages to be coincidence and as such deduces that africa was the likely root of language, but the neccessary migrations to carry it out of africa predate 50,000 years with some clues pointing to 200,000 years....The same type cognate linking system is also used to decipher links in genetic language contained in everyones body and its no coincidence that language architecture trans morphs with similar system to Genes...When people migrate and their features change, it affects say the shape of the mouth cavity and the nasal cavity and it can affect pronounciations that they originaly had over thousands of years...I can even see in USA after white people of europe took the country over,they speak and pronounce their english much differently after only 400 or so years...I can even see the difference in the resting shape of the mouth of a lifetime london english speaker and a lifetime USA english speaker with the same european ancestory ,and the differneces in mouth resting shape goes for german and other european region migrants to USA...I try to magine the extent of change to language and body features after 50,000 years of migration.... VERY NICE TOPIC HERE ALL YOU THREAD CONTRIBUTORS AND AT BEST WE HAVE MANY CLUES BUT EVEN MORE MYSTERY TO UNCOVER...Thanks

It brings some good questions to my mind...."Lagos" is known around the world as a city,even by nigerians...The only thing in lagos by the name of lagos is the state of lagos and Ikeja and so on are the cities...The state is so small that the majoor cities all mix into each other with no gaps at all,and so the idea comes that lagos is one big city...Am i mistaken?? So the official rateing is for Lagos as a mega "City"..Official records must be accurate and so will they or have they made official renderings for Lagos s a city? The truth is that a democracy becomes what the popular belif determines it to be,and so if the 20 million souls of lagos believe its a city,then its no matter what the documents of nigerian history show,lagos is a city

I have been thinking about one story for years now and doing lots of language compareing for years now...Weeks ago there was NL topic about the word "wahala" and its arabic roots..So it reminded me of other words in yoruba i knew to have arabic counter part and the most popular one to me is the word for night in yoruba "ALE" or we would say L´ale to mean "at night"..The oldest arabic books/tablets are linked to the oldest bible stories of Adam and eve and one sumerian epic tells of adam the first man having an woman counterpart before the story of EVE and in english ,they pronounce her name lilith or lila and the interpreters of the story said the story described her as dark as the night(as if she may have been deep african).The interpreter went on to say that lila or lilith is the european transmorphosis of the arabian word for night that has pronounciation "lalel" (even if i did not spell it as arabians would with their different enscription characters)it is pronouced very similar to how i spelled it...this is to say the woman was named after the night using the word for night in her culture which is similar to the word for night in yoruba culture.....When i was considering the word "wahala" it seems more likely that it was a more recent input to yoruba from arabic when islam was introduced to nigeria...I have to thnk otherwise on the word "ale" for night,the story traces back to the time of ancient sumeria and dated the scriptic tablet back to over 3000 years ago with reference to the presence of a woman black in colour as the night with a word for night very similar or the same as used in black peoples afican language...i go off the accomplished linguists theories that all languages come out of central african area and the Bantu group of languages is likely the oldest which has yoruba as a subset of bantu,or more so :twi is a subset of bantu languages where yoruba is in the twi group of languages..Twi is a language in togo and my friends from togo would say "wa" for me to come in their twi language,just as i would say "wa" for them to come in yoruba...So by this information i am swayed to think that "ale" is a very very old Bantu group language word that came out of africa and into Arabia...Korfodian group languages are related to Bantu group if i recal correct and then there are the languages that follow the nile river area and not to forget the ancient nile flowed from very near to lake chad in a time when there were other great lakes just north of nigeria where it was easy to migrate along lakes to other lakes all the way to arabic areas ,when lake chad was so large it almost reached the ancient nile river and the nile areas being the main historic route for africa to middle east movement

Phiozy: @19nia, like 4 real?? Dats one story there! Smh

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