₦airaland Forum

tosinbobo1, whre in the CCC constitution is the charge to say "Jehovah, Jesy Kristi, Michaeli Mimo" at the start of prayers?
Why say "Michaeli Mimo" instead of "Emi Mimo"?

Rgp92, where's your evidence (including timeline, names, and cultural practices) that the Yoruba migrated from Nok?
Have you studied the history of the Ijebu?

Who knows if exotik also thinks that Igbo Ukwu art is older than the Cross River (Alok Ikom) stone monoliths

I have the reason for the taboo against determining the number of the Oba's children and GOD-willing,will soon post it as another topic.


Biafra ain't the land of the rising Sun

https://www.vmfa.state.va.us/uploadedImages/VMFA/Exhibitions/Dynasty_et_Divinity/12-beaded-torso_LG.jpg

https://galerie-herrmann.com/arts/art3/Ife_Benin/18_Bueste_120J/Ife_Bust_gr.jpg
Notice the one-pack (yes, no 6-packs!)

https://www.vmfa.state.va.us/uploadedImages/VMFA/Exhibitions/Dynasty_et_Divinity/02-figure-of-king_LG.jpg

exotik:
im not an expert but i know that for sure the style of art is not going to be the same.  igbo-ukwu, ife, and benin all have different styles coz the style of art are either influenced by the culture of the people or the personality/individuality of the artist. but the main purpose those two pieces were placed there by the "experts", was to prove that ife was influenced by igbo-ukwu.

Present your evidence so for peer review so we can analyze your logic.

my apologies to lakal

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Negro_Ntns, it seems that lakal has replaced the picture of the full body cast that you were referring to. Can you confirm?

Land of the rising Sun
Shagamu - P
Owu - M

Negro_Ntns, your latest post was fantastic. It is not enough for me to tell others that its morally upright to prostrate as it could be forgotten as time passes. This would not happen if I provide the background.

It was from Odun Ifa that I got ka be esi as cobra begat boar.

Jakande and Akande are pronounced differently, so the translations must be different?

.
You said I posted wrong info; which is/are?

Other Nigerian nationalities could learn from our way of prostration. Negro_Nations, thanks for the clarification. If I hadn't asked, I might not have understood the significance.

I noticed the "lethargy" and wondered what you could have been referring to.
I thought as much that oba is related to or is equivalent to abba, but hadn't yet seen the connection. Isn't Kabiyesi derived from oka bi esi, or cobra begat boar? Any cryptic info therein?
Please share more on "the prostration/kneeling for worship is a ritualistic act for grounding" as I want to prostrate the right way during worship.

Are you implying that you were not beautiful OR were not created beautiful when you were born?

I have a feeling that the prostrations in the Vatican that you referred to are derived from the Israelite tradition. As seen in the Bible, prostration was not limited to worship. I want to believe that the Yoruba must have a strong reason for prostrating - could the reason have been forgotten over time?

I'm searching for the roots of the words doba'le and ikun'le. I'm sure the "le" part has to do with ile (earth/ground).
Apart from king, does OBA mean royal father and/or dear father?


With regard to worship, here's what a someone contributed to my blog:

I am Eastern Orthodox and we also prostrate ourselves before the Sacrament and facing East (location of altar) during Great Lent.

The Coptic Christians of Egypt also prostrate themsleves. It is the only proper posture of those who would humble themselves before God. When in our bodies we finally appear before Christ our God none will dare to shake His hand.

odumchi:
Dabiri can have a host of Igbo meanings depending on inflection.

Dabiri can mean "discovered and settled" or "Lean on" in Igbo.

This might just be the unifying answer.

I hadn't expected so many varied meanings. What are the odds that its just a frequently occurring coincidence?


There was someone named Dibri in the Bible whose father was an Egyptian and his mother an Israelite. He was killed for blasphemy. Here's what I got about the meaning of Dibri:

Dibri

The name Dibri occurs only once in the Bible and that in a rather harrowing scene.

The Danite Dibri's daughter Shelomith was married to an Egyptian, and because Israel had just escaped from captivity in Egypt, this quite possibly caused a great deal of stress at home. At some point in the forty year trek through the wilderness, Israel was camped at Mount Sinai. Dibri's grandson, who was half-Egyptian half-Israelite, went for a stroll about camp and got into a clash with an Israelite.

At some point during the argument the grandson violated the Ten Commandments by blaspheming the Name of God. The man (or boy) was arrested and subsequently sentenced to death by God Himself. God also issued the decree that anyone who blasphemed had to be publicly put to death by means of mass execution. Judging from the penal consequence, blaspheming the Name of God was as grave a violation as murdering a man (Leviticus 24:10-23).

The name Dibri comes from the fertile root , and literally means My Word. There is, however, much more to this name, which linguistically is kindred to the phrase Word Of God. For an extensive look at the dbr root, see our article on the name Dabar.

Wasn't Sango's mother from Nupe?

I want to believe that the sketch was done by a "oyinbo" person.

Are you not referring to the Umim and Thumim? Do you have any pictorial representation and note of the methodology? of this Umim?

How about the Aro confederacy, in addition to the 3 empires you mentioned?

What is the meaning of Dabiri?
Which part of Yorubaland is this name from or most common?
Is it not Yoruba?

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=770881.msg9402726#msg9402726 date=1319388777]Lakal, thank you for the picture set in thread # 1 – the Ife busts in the very beginning after the original post.

They are: 1 and 2 - head busts; 3 - torso bust; and 4 - full body cast.

Where did you get the 3 and 4? I have spent years looking for the 4. I saw it long time ago and saved it but lost it with other archived materials in a stolen laptop and could never remember the source for a replacement. God Bless you for bringing it here!

This picture #4 is very interesting.

Nothing says so much and so powerfully to give Yoruba a foothold in the Old Testament (Torah) as this art has done. To those who may not know, this is a high priest in full ritual regalia wearing the Ephod and holding the instruments of authority or divination power (oracle). It also confers the royal sovereign as an extension of that authority or Divine throne (Arsh! - which is where Ashe comes from).

Taken as a whole, the piece clearly depicts the male/female attributes of the GOD-HEAD.[/quote]What would you then say of these pictures below of an Ashanti priest?
https://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image057.jpg


https://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image059.jpg

Would the full body cast you were referring to then be that of a prophet?

I feel loathing and shame for the iniquities of my ancestors and myself.

Why don't you give us the history of the Yoruba from 2000BC till today, with a list of all the kings/rulers?

Genesis 15: 12-17
The Amorites were not Egyptians.
The Israelites were not enslaved in Egypt for up to 400 years.
The physical features of the Amorites and the slave coast are the clues to knowing who enslaved Abraham's descendants for 400 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorite#Physical_appearance

Genesis 15: 12-17
The Amorites were not Egyptians.
The Israelites were not enslaved in Egypt for up to 400 years.
The physical features of the Amorites and the slave coast are the clues to knowing who enslaved Abraham's descendants for 400 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorite#Physical_appearance

When before the Ancient of Days, you wouldn't dare say that you cannot doba'le because you are wearing white cloth. Did Abraham and Moses think twice and/or consider their apparel before prostrating?

I initially posted the article here
http://yemitom./2011/10/13/prostration-among-the-yoruba-and-the-israelites/
and I got some very interesting comments. How many churches today do we see members falling on their faces in worship?

Deeply ingrained within the tradition of the Yoruba people of West Africa is the unique way of greeting elders and the Oba (King) by the males, commonly known as prostration (doba’le).
[img]http://yemitom.files./2011/10/a-man-greeting-a-yoruba-king-oba1.jpg[/img]
This is a posture that involves falling flat on one’s face as a sign of respect and worship. It has been a peculiar part of the culture that any male that does not practice it when considered necessary is seen as very disrespectful and having shameful character and morals. The origin and reason may have been forgotten with time or perhaps one has to look at the root of the word doba’le and/or search deep within the Ifa literary corpus to shed more light on it. However, the practice is being watered down as a result of the introduction of the handshake that was introduced by European colonialists. Personally, I consider handshakes to be a candidate for consideration as a public health nuisance. Prostration is still observed by some Yoruba Christians during prayer and worship which he considers as normal instead of during special occasions, and in deference to an Oba. For females the greeting, also known as ikun’le, is done by bowing on one or both knees.
[img]http://yemitom.files./2011/10/girl-kneeling-and-boy-prostrating-for-a-woman2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://yemitom.files./2011/10/groom-anad-his-friends-greeting-the-brides-family-and-receiving-their-blessings2.jpg[/img]
Interestingly, the Bible mentions many incidents in which greeting, deference and worship involved a similar or exact style of prostration. There are probably over a hundred verses from Genesis to Revelations where it is mentioned either as prostrate or fall on the face or bow to the earth or even worship.

However, it seems the people who call themselves Jews today and occupy the land of Israel only prostrate during prayer and worship while some do it on certain days. I am yet to come across any mention of the practice being associated with other activities like greeting elders including their priests, and non-religious events like weddings. Could the reason be that they are not the descendants of Jacob and thus it was alien to them when they adopted Judaism?

Furthermore, it appears that prostration is alien to the Igbo culture of which some of her people have claimed to have descended from the Jews – the tribe of Gad. Some have looked down on the Yoruba for posturing thus in showing respect for elders. If they look with scorn at those who prostrate then it may mean treat Abraham, Jacob, Moses, the prophets and so on thus.

I have more questions like
(1)Are there any other groups of people within the Niger-Congo and Afro-Asiatic language families that practice prostration as part of daily life like the Yoruba?
(2)Did the Lemba, Ethiopians, Nubians and original Egyptians prostrate likewise?

Does this story ring a bell?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-705765.0.html

What does Yoruba mythology say about:
(1) the Yoruba solar (12-month) calendar?
(2) the warning from Ela?


Was Jakuta retired by Sango?

How did Sarah greet Abraham?

Amujale:
Much of West African philosophy remains undiluted because West Africans existed way before the communities in Europe became. And please dont confuse literacy with intelligence because they're both completely different notions. However, some good for nothing nitwits have tried to westernize this, the text that amor4ce is a typical example. We all know that ESu has nothing in common with the christian character known as Satan; as this Satan character is a mere figment of imagination.

In my opinion, the text in the article http://destee.com/index.php?threads/getting-started-with-ifa.59403/page-2 has NO credibility whatsoever.

I know that Yoruba don't do things for nothing. What then is then is the reason for the names of the weeks and months in the Yoruba solar calendar? Certainly the names are not for decoration. Also, why call your fellow men nitwits? Did you create them?

"African" history is very much in the Bible, it is as if some of these crusaders tried to blot it out - kind of like Gentiles using what is yours against you.

I got this from Wande Abimbola's website:

There are two hundred and fifty-six Odu or books of Ifá. Each Odu or book is supposed to contain eight hundred stories yielding a total of 256 multiplied by 800 which equals 204 800 stories. Each of these stories contains the experiences of the peoples of West Africa throughout the whole range of their history and mythology. In other words even though most of the peoples of West Africa were not literate they developed the ability to preserve the salient aspects of their culture and history. What is even more they developed a rigorous system for the study codification transmission and dissemination of this vast body of literature and knowledge.


If so, how is it that the Ifa priests seem to ignore Sungbo Eredo, as if they know next to nothing about the queen?
Is it that the Ifa literary corpus makes no mention of Sungbo Eredo?

The text below seems to indeed portray Esu as the devil
http://destee.com/index.php?threads/getting-started-with-ifa.59403/page-2


When OLODUMARE ordered AJALAMO to mould man, He also ordered ELA to supervise AJALAMO's work. This infuriated ESU to whom ELA was junior, as ESU thought he had been by-passed in favour of a junior. ESU and his followers then levied war against ELA, on a day known as QJO ETI, i.e., the day of (attempting) the impossible; ESU lost, and he and his followers were chucked out of Heaven. QJO ETI corresponds to our Friday. With ESU removed, ELA became the senior of all the Heavenly Powers, and next only to OLODUMARE. Then OLODUMARE instructed ELA to go down to Earth to put things in order; at that time, the whole Earth was one vast mass of water and sky, with chaos everywhere. ESU got to know of this plan, and he and his followers took three alternative decisions: (a) either to prevent ELA from gaining a foothold on Earth, or failing that; (b) to prevent ELA from carrying out OLODUMARE's instructions, or failing that; (c) to ensure that ELA was unable to return to Heaven to report back to OLODUMARE; this is known as the day of the Three Tries; QJO ABAMETA, corresponding to our Saturday. ELA and his followers descended to Earth on OJO AIKU - the Day of not-dying, or of survival, corresponding to our Sunday (presumably implying that ESU was unable to prevent ELA 's descent; anything in parenthesis like this are the writer's comments, for which he alone is responsible).

On the day of ELA 's descent, the whole Earth was convulsed by terrible upheavals. Arriving on Earth, ELA first had to break ESU 's power; terrible battles followed, and the goddess AJE was sent down by OLODUMARE from heaven to assist ELA against ESU; hence the day is known as OJO AJE, or AJE's day; it corresponds to our Monday. ELA gained a decisive victory over ESU by establishing order; thus the day is known os OJOBO -- the Day of the return (of things to normal), or the Day of Restoration, corresponding to our Thursday. ELA then stayed on Earth for two more days, Friday -QJO ETI and Saturday -- QJO ABAMETA, and returned to Heaven on the same day he descended from Heaven, i.e. on OJO AIKU -- Sunday. Hence, the YORUBA believe that every person dies on the day of the week he was born; and that where this is not so, either the person died on somebody else's day (as an unconscious substitute) or that he had actually died on that day of his birth, but had enough energy left in him to last out a little longer before collapsing altogether.

For some time, things went on fine, mankind was fruitful and multiplied, and the Earth was populated; order was everywhere. When ESU saw this, he called his followers together, and was able to attract some of mankind to his band of followers. Trouble began again; women became barren, those with child had miscarriages or difficult births, the sick remained sick, and similar wicked things were done by ESU and his followers. Again OLODUMARE instructed ELA to go down to Earth to restore order, but this time to take on human flesh. (In the original Script, two Stanzas of IFA -- one from EJIOGBE, the other from IROSUN-ATERE -- were quoted in connection with this event. There seems no need to quote them here, due to space consideration). This was the first of six times that ELA came to the Earth as a human being, making seven times in all, if we include his very first visit as The Great Spirit ELA, as recounted above. OLODUMARE always sent him as ORUNMILA to the particular place where there was greatest need. He had different parents each time. On one of these incarnations, his father was OPERTI, his mother was OGIDI, and his place of birth was Oke Itase.


Which Esu was king of Ketu and when?