₦airaland Forum

agaugust: Nigerian Augusta A109 is an Italian product, Augusta is an Italian company 100% origin. If European companies open branch factory in south Africa it does not change European product into south African product.

Stop trying to deliberately confuse people here.

Same way you claimed ford, Toyota, BMW vehicles are all south African made cars must because those companies shipped factory equipment to south Africa and set up a branch there because of cheaper labour costs.


Stop making false claims


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fact still remians, SA built in SA the Augaster A109, hawke,impaler and a number of other air craft and air craft componets. Somthing Nigeria can not do.

and those care are built by south africans, if it was all about labour they would not set up in SA.

solomon111: Pakistan is fighting serious internal terrorism without even making serious headway,yet it is nuclear state.
So i don't see why Nigeria inspite of bokoharam(which is a temporary security problem) cannot acquire Nuclear technology.
Btw Nigeria has hundreds of nuclear scientists and atomic physicists of Nigerian descent working in almost every nuclear armed state around the world.
I can assure you that the day Nigeria becomes truely desperate for Nuclear weapons,tech transfer would be the least of our problems.
The REAL problem would be how to convince america to look the other way.
We may have to bribe america by granting them permission to build a military base in Nigeria,which they've really wanted for a long time.

And it has been a masive problem. No county helped pakstan get the bomb and no one will help nigeria.

patriot4: Actually it seems to me that the next phase of the Nigerian ship building project was to build the engines, and that is being or has been undertaken allready.

Since you bought the engeins 2012 I doubt it.

patriot4: the a109 is a hellicopter my friend, not a jet. The gap between us is not that big and it is fast reducing, and don't confuse assembling with building.

What about the hawk and impaler.

By the way you know that I siad nigeria dose not build ship engines but buys them. Nigeria bought 4 MTU engines for there 2 chiness OPVs/corvets. Not SA has a local MTU plant.

patriot4: I think you boast a lot, to the best of my recollection SA doesn't make jets, do they ?
Actually, you are not as Advanced as you think you are, and Nigeria is advancing way faster than you give it credit for.
I give Nigeria 10 years to be at the level of France. SA will be ancient history compared to Nigeria in ten years.
I am sure that even you, you know Nigeria has much more potential than SA or even France.
That potential has started coming out, just sit down and Watch it take form.

We have not invented a jet but we do build them, upgrade them and make engeins and componts for them.

Some of the A109 nigeria flys where built in SA.


We opert and made one of only a few data link sytems, the 30mm gun on the badger has been called the best in it's class, the daphine sub that are now retierd in SA had local sytems in them more advance than many current sytems. Iraq chose the Ingwene AGM over american iquvlent AGM, not only do we have the best 155mm howitzer we all so have the some of the best mortas. Should I go on. I have a 137 PDF file of just SA arms companys not on sytems just companys.

Nigeria has many years to go.

I love how nigeria thinks they catching up. SA's deffense idusty is one of the fastest growing in the world. We ranked 17th in the world. http://www.sipri.org/googlemaps/2013_of_at_top_20_exp_map.html

We sold 55 million USD worth of hardwar to algeria in 2009 alone and we have sold over 10 million USD worth of arms to nigeria since 2005

Janes has mentioned how SA is a great improver on forghine sytems. Say we don't coppie but make a completly new and improved versions. Case in point the R4 witch is more ruggerd than the galil or Eland witch last version the MK7 makes french AML look foolish.

Yet nigeria says they catching up.

agaugust: Your personal opinion. No neutral person has challenged my posts above on APRA-40 and Cobra extra weapons at extra price.


Not always necessary to say all I know about military stuff. An old proverb says b] a word is enough for the wise [/b], maybe you are not one of the wise people here.

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And you have not proven either of thos points. Where I have disproved one cliam(cobra) and presented better sources than wilkpedia and a blog that dose not suport the other (APR-40) and you presented no source Nigeria is useing the new (expsensive) long range 122mm rockets.


New saying. "Don't talk bull"

all4naija: It is obvious I don't deal on military hardware. For you to have come around and start ranting about what I said without giving any potent evidences to support the reason why you disagree with my comment speaks a lot about your personality. Indeed, that has been trending among the SA individuals on this forum. I can remind you pointing to CIA Fact-file of the Nigerian military manpower as it completely dwarfed the South African counterpart in all ramifications. That alone speaks of the capacity on which Nigeria as a nation can operate when it comes to militarization.

My fellow forum poster, agaugust, has spelled out the mechanics behind the most dreaded force in Africa, the Nigerian Military force in this thread with consistency. That you have read with jealous and tried to derail the thread after seeing your country low capacity to operate it military force while using it to run economic imperialism in the poorest countries in the sub-regional area of Southern Africa. That is all your country can achieve with its petty military capabilities.

Nigerian military has been involved with peace keeping in Africa and outside Africa for years before the change of power in SA. They have settled troubles in remote nations of Cambodia, Burma,etc and within the Sub-Sahara regions. Our men of valor have gone to fight for justice in nations like Liberia, Sierra Leon, Guinea Conakry, and settle scores in many others as far as your close neigbor, the former warring nation of Angola. But, little can be said about SA in this areas. The only time they have the opportunity to display their prowess, they ended up forcing their economic ideology to prune on the people resources and plunder their wealths. Those kind of abusive disposition of your officers don't say good about your people. People we know to be pretending to be disciplined yet do something outrageous in the line of keeping peace in a neigboring country, like they just disgraced themselves in CAR.

Now, Nigerian Navy has already learnt the act of designing drones. Don't be surprised with time they will be playing better part in that area than what you have been trying to export as parts of your military hardware. Nigerian drones don't need to be launched from launching vehicle as the one on the last image posted by Andrewza. It has all capabilities to maneuver itself from taking off, spying on insurgents(Boko Haram), reading the geography of our borders and landing. That is what I called a truly capable drone.

and when has numbers ment any think, i have siad it before will say it again. 3000 SADF solders fought the the cuban/angolan forces to a draw. The SANDF thanks to it's world class 4CI3R high number of transports vers troop numbers and great mobilty of said vechiles allows SA to better use a small force that can strik where needed. to under stand the threat that is read up on rommels ghost brigade of the attack on france. Even though he was out numberd and had wors tanks thn the french and brits he used mobilt to find and strike a weak point and pentriot so deep behind enemy lines the german high comand though his brigade was wiped out. that is SA's styl of warfare High mobilty and long rang power, we got the highest ratio of mortars per troop in afric and one of the highest in africa. your numbers will not mean any thing if you relye on vunribiel C3 sytems. or dont have the means to move your force to attack.

the nigerian milltary that can not even respond to malil, nigeria is a over rated giant.

so you dont know about burindie or lestho or DRC or sudan. we are the 8th largest supply to peac keeping missions and the biggest donnar country in africa

the nigerian navy bought the there drones, so where do you see they leant to build them. the vulter is the most basic milltary dron in sa and is still leap years a head of nigerias drones

souldust: i have read in so many sa websites where they parade themselves as 'africas savior' and its so funny especially when we consider the fact that sa just came into the continent in this millenium. This shows how false their claim is.

I am so tired after concluding a week long exam just yesterday so i cant type so much if not, i would have showed you guys what false image you have of yourselves.

SA goal is to liberate Africa from forghine influnce.

Notice no forghien influnce in SADC and no war or coups.

That can not be said for nigeria.

agaugust: if you want to use my head to solve problems, you ask me for help, don't order me around, I won't obey your commands because I am not your servant.

if I feel like spending extra time to answer you, then I may do that later, if I wish, because I have told you south Africans I don't post military information to satisfy you, I post to satisfy my fellow Nigerians whom you try to confuse about Nigerian military power.

miss infomastion is miss infomastion

agaugust: .



...because your brain does NOT work well.



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You cliam nigeria has APR-40. Yet no one can say how many. Only they bought some. Yet no offical milltary site that mointers these things mentions it. Only wikpedia and a blog.

You cliamed nigeria paid extra for it's cobras, saying the money was for all the fancy wepaons. Yet your own source(that is a bit dodgie) mentsions that there are many oppstional fetures that a cobra can have. Thus no one cobra will cost the same, has each country must decide on there needs.

But you fial to. See these gapes in your argument.

agaugust: .



@andrewza if I continue to answer you on the same topics after all the much details and web link sources I wrote above, other people will think I am a mad man with mental insanity like you


.

Non of your links anserw my qustion. Some actualy proof my point.

agaugust: i quote the price nigerian army paid for its 204 cobra fighting vehicles to get extra hardware and weapons for anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, we paid almost double of normal price for each cobra.

Last Contracts:
Qnt.

Customer

Value

Add Date
(Close Date)

Unit Cost

TURKEY

$43.200.000

Nov 2008
(Dec 2009)


[size=20pt]193 units
NIGERIA

$52.800.000 million

Nov 2006
(Nov 2007)

$273,575 per unit [/size]


590
IRAQ

$88.000.000

Jul 2005
(Dec 2006)

$149,153
10
IRAQ

$2.500.000

Jul 2005
(Dec 2005)

$250,000


Normal Average Unit Cost of Cobra :

$180,706
All contracts....


i have improved your level of education again on nairaland. be honest and say thank you to me.



weblink source http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product771.html



now that i prove it, i show you that the a civilian working as research support staff in a privately owned defence company is better in military affairs than a south african navy soldier like you alcohol drunkard @andrewza coetze.

with the way i proved you wrong on this post, i should have retaliated with worse insults than calling you a f00l because you have called me a f00l several times this week, but i wont use that word on you. i have decided last month march to stop calling you a f00l as long as i can control my temper, so i decide to rename you as an alcoholic drunkard.

enjoy your ne name, my good friend @andrewza, the cook/chef in south african navy, master of military data copy and paste including photograhpy !

from your source
optsional add fetures
self recovry winch
amphbois pack
NBCD protestion kit
IR driving lamps
smoke launchet
NVG
gun ports
windscreen die ice sytem
fire supprsion system
night vission perrscope
stecher provsion
day time perscope
intercom syetem
pioneer kit
search light
add on armour kit


and even they refer to it has a "light" APC

now show me the money was spent on wepaons and not one of the many extras i just listed from your source

agaugust: you can phone president of romania and ask him. just dont add your personal bedroom opinion to the wikipedia source.




[size=20pt]
nigerian army later purchased many of the new version APR-40 rocket artillery same which romania used to replace the older APR-21 versions. nigerian APR-40 new version has rocket range up to 45km superior to south african rockets 36km. numbers of the nigerian army new APR-40 units not stated by sources. [/size]

nigeria has APR-40 artillery rocket and it has far better accuracy than all the old BM-21 GRADS that the other african countries use. an MLRS can be a very useless weapon if accuracy is poor.

my full quote from wikipedia

Romania

APRA-40, a Romanian variant of the Grad, and a 6-rocket launcher.

APR-21 (aruncator de proiectile reactive – rocket launcher): Romanian 21-round launcher (3 rows of 7) mounted on a Bucegi SR-114 four-by-four chassis. No longer used by the Romanian Army but some vehicles have been exported to Nigeria and Croatia. Morocco has the launch pack mounted on a Kaiser M35 truck.

APR-40: Initially this designator was used for the original BM-21 "Grad" in Romanian service, but Aerostar SA has developed an improved model, based on a DAC-665T six-by-six truck. A slightly improved model, called APRA-40 or 40 APRA 122 FMC is based on the DAC 15.215 DFAEG truck. Each launcher is normally accompanied by a re-supply truck MITC with a 6t crane and a trailer RM13. The system is also used by Botswana, Bosnia, Cameroon, Croatia, Iran, Iraq, Liberia and Nigeria.

two weblink sources :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad

http://www.harpoondatabases.com/encyclopedia/Entry1870.aspx


i want to sleep, stop disturbing my weekend you drunk alchoholic, cook/chef of south african navy mr @andrewza !

Why don't you phone him.


Where is the proof nigeria uses new rockets. You do know that the APR-40 reffers to the number of tubes witch are 122mm tubes, not the rocket they fire or there range. You do know the long rang rockets have reduced payload.

Why don't you post sweedish link. IISS dose not mention the APR-40 with nigeria. But my source is 2 years out of date. Still they don't even mention nigeria putting a order down for them.

agaugust: [size=16pt]
dont twist wikipedia information, it says romania exported APR-21 rocket artillery to nigeria, it did NOT say second hand sales.

also, you avoided the part that says nigerian army later purchased many of the new version APR-40 rocket artillery same which romania used to replace the older versions. try to be a bit honest mr @andrewza.
[/size]
nigerian army 77 units T-72 main battle tanks are all upgraded to T-72BM version, do we need to repeat old posts and waste time ?

cobra is not APC, according to you ? maybe your children told you cobra is a name of a snake in the bush and not an army vehicle.

i quote cobra information you can google.

The Cobra vehicle forms a common platform which can be adapted for various roles and mission requirements including : Armoured Personnel Carrier, Anti-Tank Vehicle, Reconnaissance Vehicle, Ground Surveillance Radar Vehicle, Forward Observation Vehicle, Armoured Ambulance, Armoured Command Post, turreted vehicle for 12.7mm machine gun, 20mm cannon, anti-tank missiles such as the TOW missile/Spike missile or surface-to-air missiles.

weblink source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otokar_Cobra


the above tells you all cobra can carry anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles because its built multi-role and can have weapons changed easily for new type of combat. nigerian army bought over 200 cobras with many extra hardware and weapons for changing over to various types of combat roles. nigerian army paid about double the normal price for each of our cobras because we bought many extra hardware/weapons to perform various types of multi-role combat, same thing iraq had to pay for their second batch cobras, double of normal price.


apart from blowpipe, SA-7, swingfire, there are other modern missiles in nigerian army for anti-tank and anti-aircraft they dont display in photographs or in public, if you like you believe, if you wish dont believe, who cares what you believe ? nobody cares.

its a free world. anybody can choose to believe whatever they wish in this world...but you cannot change the real truth.

why would romian build brand new wepaons to sell what they have laying arround

i have yet to see proof of any apr-40 in nigerian servis

did i mentsion t72s? i mentioned T55s and vickers

the cobra is in the same class size has the hummvw, RG32 and other patrol vechlis. Yes there is a APC version that can carry 6 to 7 dismounts(depends on if the commander dismounts or stays in the cobra) but it not a purpose built APC.

show proof that nigeria paid doubel to get wepaon sytems, because pic of Nigerian cobras in Malil dont have any thing above MGs. Not to mention the copany that makes the cobra dose not make those wepaons, so unless you can proof it dont show how foolish you are.

I love how nigerian brag how secritive there armend forces is that dose not do phots(Even though there are pics of there traing methods(not a demonstrsion but actual traing) and that any purches of that callber will have to go through paper work unless it is black market or home grown. (and the only roket launcher dixcon makes is the RPG-7. so yes all you have is old AGMs and SAMs.

APR-21
21 tubes
Effectve range 20km or 30 to 40 with new russian rockets(no datta that nigeria has any in servise so it is 20KM)
Size 122mm

Valkiri MK1
24 tubes
Effective range 36km
Size 127mm

Valkirir MK 2 same has above only 40 tubes

Nigeria has 25 APR-21

SA has 26 valkirir in store(resev force) 4 MK2 in store(reserv force) and 21 MK in permant force.

Sudan has 158 BM21 and copies zimbawe 60, zambia has 30(estemated 12 active), tanzania 58, solaliland has around 10(they not even a county) ethiopia has 50, erirea 35, DRC 24, cameroon 20, and angola with 90(there are others I skiped) all those are 122m MLRS sytems with 21 or more tubes

So do you stand by your notsion of nigeria haveing the best MRL force in africa.

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By the way. On the APR21. You do know it is just a reguler BM21 with a diffrent truck. And romiana phased it out of servis and sold them to you second hand.

agaugust:
nigeria is locally producing new heavy weapons, we dont want to become permanent buyer of weapons. we are reverse engineering a lot of weapons we have just like China did and became great. we buy a moderate number and we dis-assemble and re-assemble them to see the engineering secrets. thats what we did to austria/german Steyr APC to produce nigerian Igirigi APC from its basics.

nigerian airforce did same thing to our chinese F-7 jets, we dis-assembled and re-assembled the jets in nigeria to see all its technical secrets, same way china did to russian mig-21 jets to produce f-7 jets. we will do the same thing to chinese modern L-15 falcon light attack jets when we get them, nigeria has future plans to be a great heavy weapons producer in our own nigerian factories.

nigerians are smarter than you think.

igirigi APC is being developed into various version, anti-tank missile IFV, anti-aircraft missile mobile Air defence vehicle, just needs some time as nigerian defence industry grows fast and advanced




majority of nigerian army weapons outdated ?

about 300 cobra and VBL purchased around 2006
about 45 sandcat MRAPS purchased 2013
about 100 BTR-3U and MT-LB purchased around 2006
many romanian artilery purchased around 2006
about 120 mowags and BTR-80 purchsed around 2005
about 200 mountain lions MRAPS purchased 2013
....and many i dont need to count, and many more on order paid for and soon to be delivered...

[size=16pt] over 1,000 very modern army combat vehicles from 2006 to 2013 purchased into nigerian army and you call us outdated ![/size]

@andrewza did your your e.nemy mix some a.cid chemicals into the 12 bottles of beer you drank today ? or their is a herbalist in south africa that is playing games with your mind ?

.

Fas majorty is obosolity.

It a fact live with it. You have about 100 good IFV/APC (the cobra is not classfied has a APC). Of your tanks 276 need to be uppgraded or replecset. (There is a nice T55 upgrade, makes it in to a real beast. The vickers should be replaset with T72 or simmlar tank maybe the type 85.

The swing fire is out dated and not a threat. Replase with milane ot russian AGM.

Blowpipe and SA-7 are no threat for current gen anti missel sytems.

Should I go on.


We in SA know we have outdated wepaons and have projects to replacse them.

Rember how I siad it not the plaform but software

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-17586/

It so good UK uses it.

agaugust: so the source needs to count how many rounds of ammunition, shells, missiles, spare parts, gallons of fuel, water in the engine radiator, food for the vehicle operators/drivers, etc that came with the weapons ? did any source count how many anti-tank missiles came with nigerian Mi-35 Hind helicopter gunships too ?

you drink your weekend alcohol to overdose ?

I did not aske for numbers. I asked for what type of AGM.

There is a difrence Between the 2.

agaugust: its nothing special, many african countries have all kinds of UAV.

only nigeria has USV for its navy sea drone force in the whole of africa. no need for me to repeat my post on nigerian UAV and USV drones.

.

Diffrence is.

1 it has datta link. Only sa has a datta link sytem in all of africa

2 it built local

3 denel has a number of UAVs for martime use, SAN is looking at getting a martime rotary UAV for the patrol fleet. But they still waiting on the devlpment on that sytem.

4 san has no need of UAVs for martime use, no deltas or off shoar rigs needing to be protected.

5 did I mention we build it, we don't need to buy from isrial. And I am still waiting on you post about missel aremed drones. Currently the seeker 400 of denel can carry lasser guided missels.

agaugust: you see, i dont care what source you choose to quote among the two above, i dont care the name you choose to call the diffeerent models of nigerian army BTR-3U fighting vehicles, my point is they all have anti-tank guided missiles to destroy south african olifant heavy tanks, we just waste your army.[/b]


this thread is no longer the early pages where you south africans laugh at nigerian military weapons like T-55 tanks, Vickers Tanks, NNS Aradu, etc and call them old weapons. now we are posting nigerian military weapons that are modern technology from year 2000 to year 2013.

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Fist we never siad they did not have AGMs. Second. What missiel they firing. Your link dose not mention the purches of any new AGMs. Third 40 AFV really you want us to worry over 40 AFV. Fourth the rooikat,ratel ZT3,olphant MBT,bader,ratel 90 hell pretty much any AFV in SA that can take the MMS tuuret(that all of them. The Multi, misseil, turret can carry 3 types of missel ingwene, mokape and star streak) can deat the BTR3 of with only 40 are a threat.fith the olphant has never been called a heavy tank, it acctully pretty light for a tank. You can call it a main battel tank or medium battel tank(MK1 is medium MK2 is main)

The fast majorty of the Nigerian milltary is out dated. And replasments like the BTR3 come in such small numbers. Nigeria needs over 200 BTR3s not less than 50.

The thing with MLRS sytems is that it has all most nothing to do with how new the launch plaform is. It has every thing to do with the rocket and software on the computer.


Any case. I give you the vulter UAS of the south african army.

https://www.ate-southafrica.com/medias/products-pictures/vulture.jpg

http://www.ate-southafrica.com/ate_Product/4/index.html

Intristing fact. The badger is proved agianst 30mm sabot rounds over the frotal arc and regular 30 mm for the rest. Polish AMV(that had lighter armour than the SA version) regully shruged of RPG's.

Current verssion are a 30mm (though the turret can accomadat far larger. The 30mm offers the best ammo capasity fire power ratio) a comand version(12.7mmm) a tank hunter a morta version(breach loading 81mm if memory servis)

Denel has made a 105mm howizter that can be fited. It has a 30km range and can be used for direct fire has well.

patriot4: Standing on their head is what they do as punishment or between real trainings. It is meant at breaking them as men, before making them into real soldiers. It is a warrior practice that some Nigerian kingdoms were already using to discipline their troops before colonization. The French foreign legion has that type of ideology as well, and everybody praises the french foreign legion for that. The US special forces has similar training punishment as the Nigerian army. You see the difference between a Nigerian soldier and the rest is that what you would consider special forces training in your army is what Nigeria would consider regular training.

Lepord crawling 1KM breaks a mab just has bad if not worse. And I renforces a skill. Any case the worst punshment I got was sleep denial.

Try this. To night get in to a PT kit and go stand out side at the "at ease postion. Remain there untill 03:30 go in side clean for 15min then go for a run. After that countiune with your normal day's activty.

To be fare sleep 45min before going out side and wear a track suit(still cold up there and hypothemia is deadly). That was the worst 36 hours in my life. All because one guy made a noise.

agaugust: source please !

http://www.delvillewood.com/bataille2.htm

sorry it was just over 3000

patriot4: My dad is the toughest man I have ever seen, yet he told me that during his army training he almost died in many occasions. He told me about the selectivity, and about the constant group punishment. How can you say SA special forces training is the toughest in the world ? Come on, everybody has tough SF training, the difference is the level of selectivity, because it is the cadets level that will guarantee the level of the training.

Some of the training in nigeria is hard for nothing. Like standing on your head. Really what that going to help you with. Now lepord crawling 1KM is both hard and pratical.

patriot4: This is sparta !!!!

Delviel woods part of the battel for somms. A SA force of just over 1000 held the line in the face of deth. Suffring 80% losess. At the end of the day 140 men and 3 officers marched out. Non ran away.

Stand our ground is what we do.

patriot4: Nigerian soldiers don't die easy!
on the other hand SA soldiers who are not subjected to the same selectivity, just can't perform the same tasks.

Lol you think SA training is soft. People have and do die on our infatry course. During my basic training some one broke his Hip bone and 7 females the pelvic. And that is navy basic training. Not even infantry.

Our SF training is the toughest in the world. It easyer to climb mount everist.

agaugust: [size=16pt] Nigerian army is clearly the best infantry/foot soldiers in Africa !

who dares to challenge these warriors ? [/size]

imagine south african army was fighting against nigerian army in CAR instead of seleka rebels ! nigerian army will waste the south african army in few hours of battle....and we capture @andrewza, then we photograph him in handcuffs !

Lol. Do you think we would send 265 solders against a army.

In Jan seleka was no more than 2000 now they reported at over 5000. Some even say solders from chad where among them.


200 sa solders will kill 1000 nigerian solders.