₦airaland Forum

really? With all the problems in africa you choose to focus on a western invasion.

shymexx: And you believe 20million people were actually sold into slavery? - most of these people were kidnapped... West Africans thought the slaves were going to be treated the same way they treat their slaves - however, when they found out how barbaric the white slave owners were, they stopped it...

Black South Africans bragging about things they never built is just shameful - that's like Aborigines bragging about building Australia and New Zealand(more advanced countries than SA)... You can't even compare yourselves to African Americans because they fought for their own liberation with their blood, sweat and tears; built America; and invented some of the greatest inventions in American history... They contributed to what America is today(and they have West African DNA) - the same can't be said about black South Africans and their cowardly ways... Sometimes, I regret ever singing against apartheid in primary sch. because of the utterances of some of you guys, to be honest...

Anyway, what do you expect from people who worship clowns like Desmond Tutu and not Steven Bantu Biko?? Bantu Biko preached black consciousness years ago, yet you lot have refused to be "black conscious" and you still live in your own illusions smh...

Enough rants for now - let's compare black South African army to the Nigerian army:

BLACK SOUTH AFRICAN ARMY
https://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01001/460-zulu-warriors_1001094c.jpg



NIGERIAN ARMY
[img]http://beegeagle.files./2012/06/ngrn-troopsnan.jpg[/img]




The difference is clear - pictures don't lie...

So you saying they did not fight for there freedom. If so how did they become free.

sheyie2007: we people? Dude I don't have any thing with your white counterparts, the bottom line here is they set the pace for ya'all... And nobody is making any big deal here. it's a fact with nothing attached to it... Burnnn!

I am white.

sheyie2007: Clap for your self bra... the whites has set the pace for you guys, so always pay homage to them when you highlight any of your country's achievements..

What is with you people and white south africans. You makeing a biger deal out of it than black south africans.

agaugust: IT IS A VERY SAD STORY TO HAVE A NATION THAT SOME PEOPLE CLAIM IS AFRICA'S STRONGEST MILITARY POWER, YET THAT NATION SAT DOWN AND FOLDED ITS ARMS WHILE RWANDAN GENOCIDE TOOK PLACE AND 800,000 AFRICANS DIED, THAT NATION HAS A HUGE STOCKPILE OF WEAPONS AND MANUFACTURES ARMAMENTS AND STEALTH FRIGATES, YET IT LOOKS ASIDE AND GOES TO SLEEP WHILE CONGO DR IS TORN APART FOR MANY YEARS IN BLOODSHED EVERY DAY, BUT NO INTERVENTION OR HELP FROM THE NATION WHOSE CITIZENS ON THIS FORUM CLAIMS TO BE AFRICA'S NUMBER ONE MILITARY POWER. WHAT IS THE USE AND BENEFIT OF A STRONG NEIGHBOUR WHO WILL NOT RESCUE MY SOUL IN TIME OF TROUBLE WHEN HE HAS SO MUCH POWER IN HIS HANDS AS HE CLAIMS ?

MAY GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS NIGERIA FOR ITS GALLANT SOLDIERS WHO HAVE DIED IN THOUSANDS DURING HAND TO HAND INFANTRY COMBAT IN LIBERIA, SIERRA LEONE, SOMALIA, SUDAN, AND VERY SOON TO DIE IN MALI, SACRIFICING THEIR NIGERIAN LIFE AND BLOOD JUST TO SAVE THEIR FELLOW BLACK MEN FROM AGONY. THE STRONGER MAN IS NOT THE ONE THAT SITS DOWN FEELING FAT AND BOASTING..."I AM THE STRONGEST". THE STRONGER MAN IS THE ONE THAT STANDS UP LIKE A TRUE SON OF COURAGE AND WALKS INTO BATTLES FAR AWAY FROM HIS OWN HOME, TO DIE AND BE BURIED THERE IF NECESSARY...FROM 1990 TO 2012...WE FIGHT, WE DIE , WE BECOME HEROES BUT OUR WIVES BECOME WIDOWS.

WHO KNOWS THE SMALLEST BOOK IN THE WORLD ? IT IS THE LIST OF SOUTH AFRICAN MILITARY HEROES FROM 1990 TO 2012, MY DEAR READERS, HAVE YOU BOUGHT A COPY ?

We did not sit down and fold our arms. We wher busy with the intergration and thus at a weak state. We did interven in burundy

sheyie2007: wow SA is 20 years ahead? well, I don't know if your judgement is based on infrastructural development. As far as i know, If a black ruled country with total sovereignty (no white influence like yours) can achieve this economic status thus far and compete economically with yours. Bra, you've gotta be very afraid of whats to come. Nigeria is not sleeping and I believe you know little. We cannot rule out the fact that all countries have their own challenges.
Even if i'm not happy about the political, and infrastructural challenges we have, I still respect Nigeria... Anyday!

Yes 20 to 30 years.

You need that growth rate for your popultion side.

What should we fear.

Henry120: The brits and south africans put down the rebels in SLR?? Oh lawd, what would not read from these people today. Hahahahahaha


As for the campaign in mali, why should nigeria take on the full responsibility, 500 million dollars, plus boots on the ground? Una think say na beans? We cannot foot that bill alone, it has to be shared amongst member states and france which has an interest in mali.

it the truth

because you have the most to loose

Henry120: I'm done with this issue, but I'd like to say something before I dump this discussion for good. One of you south africans said I was lying about the acquisition of OPV's from china and india. We are going to receive three stealth corvette OPV's from china in 2013 and a couple more from india also in 2013. You either believe it or you doubt. No hassle. @ syndergb. However, I must admit of being guilty of exaggeration, when I said NN would surpass SAN in 2013.

True, we are behind south africa in areas of infrastructure, but we are developing infrastructure all round, too all peoples of nigeria, and not just focusing on the major cities, like is the case in south africa. Besides we got eko atlantic city, the single biggest project anywhere in the world at the moment. As we speak land reclamation is 80% and some developers have started construction on their buildings. Rail system, lagos and rivers state are respectively developing light and monorail systems. In ECONOMY and business over the last years nigerian owned companies have recorded massive growth rates, young techies are doing very well, while the south african economy is moribound barely growing. Infact on this continent nigeria would soon be number 1. True, we still have a lot of catching up to do in infrastructure, when compared to SA, but to come and claim that all your infrastructure is 20-30 years ahead of nigeria is pure foolishness.

@ andrewza I never said the NNS ANDONI is a warship, I have consistently referred to it as a SEAWARD DEFENCE BOAT, which it rightly is, I don't know when I said it is a warship.

It is a military discussion, so no need for country bashing. I was however referring to a post made by andrewza, in which he took a swipe at us, and which I returned the favour.

My main reason for posting is to distort the notion which must of you have about nigeria's military been only about numbers. I want to say categorically that since that is what you guys believe, you lot a terribly mistaken. Like my fellow country man has harped on over and over again, you lot sound like you can just mount a blockade like we don't have a navy capable of defending the territory. You talk about oil, damaging an oil industry which accounts for just about 20% of our GDP. Okay GOODLUCK. While coming over remember to come with ZUMA and JULIUS MALEMA.

I never said you would not get them. But they won't be fully ready next year. Ships are not like cars. You can not just get in it and drive. All so what class out of intest sake. Will the be more patrol boat side with steal hull or FAC with stealth hulls.

SA is not just focusing on major cities. Where ever I go I see a new hospital a new school, malls, office complexs, factories, wharhouses, houses. We are 20 to 30 years ahead. I mean you don't have 24 hour power, oil refinries(or should I say we have more) large scale industry extra extra.


It was not you that said it. And I was just pointing it out. Any case last time SA produced a war ship was in the 70's. The docks are here though and we still do major over hauls. The frigats and subs would have been to expensive to build local. To open a production line for 4 ships is a waist of money. The project biro OPV/corvets will be home builded though.

I never took a swipe I was responding to one with a warning.

Actual a blokade stops all out going sea trade. That will destroy a country like nigeria (even SA) since most trade is through ocean trade.

You can have them. One is out of a job and the other is on the way.

souldust: snydergp you cannot distort the fact of history just becos you do not like it. You said ECOMOG lacks transport and logistics? May be you were the one who provided them with the ones they used in the seriea leone and liberia civil wars. And that was in the early 90s. Remember that ECOMOG mission in both wars was funded and undertaken completely by ECOMOG without any assistance from any one. And much, when i say much i mean much, of the fund and logistics as well as manpower and hardware were provided by naija.

The reason why we are not taking charge of the whole thing in mali is not becos we lack the capability (indeed we have it no matter what you think) but becos the FG has learnt its lessons from previous interventions in missions outside of nigeria. We do it and get no benefit and at detriment to ourself. Not forgetting the negative treatment we get from other nationals. You are not going to encourage us to continue to carry the weight of other people on our shoulders without benefits. We have done it for over 50 years already.

Yes you guys failed in seriea leone if I remeber. 300 SA mercs where the first to put down the rebels. After they left the rebels returned the the brits finaly ended the civil war. The peace keepers where just in key areas around major points. Mali will be diffrent. There the AU forces will be on the attack and thus need a lot more logistics.

souldust: you think your ship can do damage to us with impunity? I laugh in yoruba, hausa and igbo put together (can you imagine how that sounds?). You talk like your ships will meet no resistance from our navy and airforce. If you want to do a blockade, you should remember that your jets will not be part of it simply becos you dont have the means to deploy them. This means our planes will deal with your ships till you start begging. I may be wrong though.

you have only one true warship. And she is getting old now. .ost of your trade is seaborn and you have a lot of costal instlansions. we wont need to get in close to damge then there are all so the SF amd marines who can launch raides.

your air force does not have a maritime strike air craft and we can operate only at night. your air crafts will have a hard time finding us and have to get in close to do any thing. And you have no ASW sytems so how subs will have a feild day.

souldust: snydergp you have to accept it that SA cannot mount a blocade on our waters and cut off any oil export. I may not be the most competent to talk about this but i know a bit about politics and military. Yes you have subs but that does not make it possible to mount a blockade. Remember, we are not the only ones the gulf of guinea is important to. We have ghana, equatorial guinea, togo, benin rep, cameroon and gabon and not forget the uk with two overseas territories in st. Helena and assencion islands just off the gulf. An unstable gulf isnt going to be in the interest of the other countries. So you are sure of aggressive response not only from the FG, but also from all the countries i mentioned. Your MTN, multichoice, shoprite and game willl suffer. NB: OBJ signed an agreement with the US and the UK so they are also in the gulf of guinea with their warships.

You assume we the agrissive party. SA would never start a war or emargo like this. So those RN and USN ships will be on our side. The RN has close ties with the SAN. We handel all the repairs of the RN ships that patrol the falklands that need a drydocking. We all so a place for there saloirs to enjoy RnR.

Henry120: The F-7 is a heavily modified version of the MIG 21, it is not a MIG 21. As an interceptor it is good, but not as the main backbone of the air force. I won't say nigeria wasted money on them, as at the time they were purchased they were meant to be for the short term. The chinese and pakistani still employ them in huge numbers. It is supposed to be the first line of defence. However there is something in the cards at this very moment, we are already in the market. This is all I'm going to say.

Andrewza you keep mentioning janes defence web, I have told you severally that there is nothing online wether or janes or somewhere else that post the true picture of the military in nigeria. What you get there are just TIT BITS, not actually what really is. I have told you severally that information around the military is tightly controlled and and not much gets out to the public domain. However you have blatantly refused, and you continue to refer me to online sources. Anyway sha na you sabi, if you like hear word, if you no like leave.

That drone, all the drones built by nigeria, where not built by the airforce, rather by students at the nigerian airforce institute of technology( AFIT), not the air force. AMEBO 1-3, all 3 drones where built by students mainly for in land surveillance.

The seaward defence boats have always been manufactured indegeneously in nigeria for some time now, we also have our very own indegenous vehicle manufacturer(INNOSON MOTORS), last year nigerian engineers designed and built two oil platforms for ELF exploration oil company at NIGER DOCK in lagos. The fan fare around NNS ANDONI or the armoured personnel carrier was because they where government agency built. The navy regularly modifies / repairs her ships at dock yards across the country. So stop talking like south africa is the only african nation that manufactures military hardware or TECH. After all nigeria SAT X which was wholly nigerian built was launched into orbit early this year.



However, let me just clear the air, if you want to make this discussion a personal attack on nigeria, omo make I tell u, I'm prepared to throw out civility out of the window and get down dirty with you. Don't just for one moment believe that you're the only person who can launch verbal attacks. All @ andrewza.

The F7 is a joke. It is out classed by many air craft. It was a waist of money because there are many more options you could have chosen. I mean angola has a real fighter in the SU27. A few SU27 would have gone a long way. The other resone that the J7 is a waist of money is the fact it is a interceptor. Nigeria is a land based power and the air force role should be suporting the army. Yes part of that is clearing the skys of enemy aircraft but most nigerian deployments have been against enemys with no air craft. So once there is no longer a need for fighting air battel either because they have been removed has a threat or where never there in the first place the J7 is useless. It payload is to light to carry a good loadout and it's poor endurance(even the gripen has to low endurance in my opion). At least a SU27 can help the troops with ground atacks. Yes china and pakistan use the J7 but in massive numbers. The hope is to swarm enemy bombers and take the out. You don't have a swarm of J7 nor the need to have a dedicated inteceptor. Nigeria needs a good mulity role aircraft. The best choice is the SU27 or F16 in greater numbers.

I mention janes because it is the best source of deffense news with out going in to speciolaty sections. There is a great one that deals with just african deffense but I have never seen a web site. It is a bit expesive though. I don't subscribe but the base libary gets all there magzines (and a bunch of others) and yes I don't trust the internet or those history chanel documantrys for info.

Yes I know the story behind the drone's. That why mentioned it. I never went in to detail because there was no resone. It is a cheap recon sytem that is a really good idea. Nigeria needs more.

I think I did mention them before. And again they nice boats. Good at what they built to do. But they not true warships.

Never said we where the only manufatory miltary hardware in africa. Just that we the largest and we build the most advance sytems in Africa.

I never "lanuched any verbal attacks" I just point out that if this becomes persnal I won't hold back. If you think I insulted you then I sugest never leaving the house.

souldust: what irritates me with synderwhat ever and muazu is the fact that they just reduce nigeria to nothing more than number. Some one said SA soldiers are paid more. Well i may not dispute that. But that doesnt mean you live better. What is the cost of living in SA compared to naija? And for muazu in particular, you dont know when last the FG engaged in arms procurment thats be becos you know nothing about naija. While i am not the best person to tell you about our military, i still know that in 2009, we procured 15 F-7s from china and they are fully operational. We just built a locally made armoured personel carrier and a small naval warship.

I was the one who said we get paid more. Lowest paid uniformed member gets 3 times minium wage along with all the stansed befits free food, free housing, free medical extra I am going in to my 4th year and I well over a 1000 us dollars a month.

The F7 has been mentioned before (you wasted your money. Was the main thing)
Your armoured car was mentioned and the patrol boats where mentioned. I even said they nice patrol boats.

agaugust: i will not engage in any exchange of words with the south african men on this topic, a true professional has his honour and does not degrade himself to the level of non-professionals. i never claimed to be an insider of USA or NATO military, i said i work for a private american military consultancy, there are many private military cormpanies in the USA and they do this business to make money. i am also an american citizen, and i have enough credentials to be employed where i work and it gives me privilege of meeting USA and EU military men. dimeji bankole former speaker house of representaives nigeria is an ex-british army officer with a master's degree in military startegy, late shlomo adesina is an ex-israeli army soldier nco, there are many nigerians in USA and EU military because they are qualified to be there. i am in the office where i work because i am qualified to be there. i got this job after i wrote a ten page analysis of nigeria's globally respected 3rd marine commandoes, because i am close to one of its former commanders, a retired army general.

below is an extract from my lecture notes during a class/training i attended on my job, i cannot tell you the lecturer's name for privacy reasons, but i will quote his own source just the way he did.

read what is below, only for the intelligent readers, this is a tiny piece of knowledge from the brain of professional military analyst and strategists who are truly qualified to give correct rankings of military power among countries of the world. you will see from this article below, hwy you cannot judge military power and predict victory in war just because a country has the more weapons or manufactures more weapons, the calibre of top brass marshaling the forces is very important to win a war, the experience of the generals, admirals, air marshals, is a very vital factor of military power.

Why Britain Won The Falklands War

From 'Tempest in a Teapot' by Reginald & Elliot, 1983

This was the question posed by American academics Reginald & Elliot in the conclusion to their excellent 1983 study on the Falklands War,
'Tempest in a Teapot'.

"Why did Britain win? The British victory was composed of equal measures of professionalism and luck, both essential factors in the prosecution of a war. On paper,[b] Argentina appeared to have a decided edge, in men, materiel, planes, position, and supply lines. The Argentine advantage, however, was eroded away by the British forces as the war developed, the experience of the British military being a decisive factor.[/b]

Britain also used the press much more efficiently than Argentina, giving the impression of evenhandedness, truthfulness, even humbleness in advancing its claims, when in reality the military manipulated the few reporters assigned to the fleet by feeding them exaggerated but believable reports about the large numbers of British troops, ships, and planes being sent to the South Atlantic. While the Argentine press releases were discredited almost from the first day of the campaign, Britain's official government press office was regarded by most westerners as the only news source that was even partially veracious. In other words, Britain won the psychological war, and by doing so, gave an enormous boost to its military position. As the war progressed, even Argentina began believing British claims. This was, of course, precisely what Britain intended.

The sinking of the Argentine ship General Belgrano not only removed from the seas Argentina's most powerful warship, but also effectively marked the end of the naval war in the Falklands; thereafter, Argentina kept its ships within sighting distance of the mainland.

Argentina seemed to have a large advantage in air power at the beginning of the conflict, but never was able to use its large numbers of fighter-bombers to establish control of the air space over the Falklands. Instead, twenty British Sea Harriers flying round the clock effectively knocked the Argentine Air Force out of the sky in the first two weeks of the shooting war. The slower Harriers showed an uncanny ability to outmanoeuvre the faster but clumsier Skyhawks and Mirages, shooting down the Argentine planes in an astonishing ratio of about fifteen British kills for every one for Argentina.

The Argentine Air Force demonstrated immense bravery and tenacity in attacking the British fleet, which was bottled up in Falkland Sound with no room to manoeuver. But its best efforts were thwarted by a high number of dud bombs, including six that actually hit British ships, by the myriad of antiaircraft missiles thrown at the attacking Argentine jets, and by the short amount of combat time (2-10 minutes) that each Argentine plane actually had over the target areas. Essentially, each Argentine aircraft had to line up over the combat zone, quickly dump its bombs and missiles, perhaps turn around once for a strafing run, and then head back to home base, or run the risk of running out of fuel. This left the Argentine craft at an enormous disadvantage in pursuing the Sea Harriers, in picking better targets, in avoiding missiles. In the end, Argentina lost perhaps one-half to two-thirds of its serviceable combat planes, depending on which claims one chooses to believe; more importantly, the Argentines lost a large percentage of its trained fighter pilots, a resource that will be far more difficult to replace than the aircraft themselves.

On land Argentina fared little better. Brigadier General Menendez, who had spoken out against the original Argentine invasion, was simply the wrong man to be defending the Argentine beachhead. He consistently showed himself incapable of making the simplest military judgements. His strategy, his placement of troops, his supply lines, his responses to British actions, all demonstrated woeful military incompetence. Paradoxically, President Galtieri recognised Menendez's deficiencies on his only visit to the islands, but refused to replace him, on the grounds his removal might demoralise the Argentine populace and soldiery.

The British forces were allowed to land at San Carlos Bay virtually unopposed. Argentine troops at Goose Green were reinforced by Menendez, but provided with no further support when they most needed it. Once Goose Green fell, Menendez seemed to pursue a persistent policy of retreat, falling back from entrenched positions at the least sign of pressure from the advancing British. As a result, he soon found himself besieged at Puerto Argentino / Port Stanley, encircled by land and cut off by sea, with no air support whatsoever. At the end, his soldiers broke and ran before the final British attack.

Contributing to the Argentine defeat on land was the dichotomy between the Argentine enlisted men and their elitist officers, many of whom never moved from their relatively plus surroundings in Port Stanley, while the men in the trenches were struggling to find something hot to eat and something warm to wear. A number of the intermediate officers abandoned their units under British military pressure, leaving them in charge of their sergeants or corporals. The vast gap between the privileged officer class and the poorly trained conscripts that comprised much of the Argentine army resulted in a demoralisation of the forces in the field, and a tendency for them to crumble before the relentless British onslaughts.

Contributing to this was Argentina's poor supply chain: while goods and war materiel piled-up in Port Stanley, the soldier in the field received less and less in food, clothes, and weaponry as the war progressed. He felt abandoned by his own people, and consequently did not fight as well as he could have fought, had he been properly maintained and directed. The fault for the military debacle must lie directly with the heads of the Argentine armed services.

Leaving aside political considerations, could Argentina have won the military struggle? There is no certain answer to this question, but most observers seem to feel that Argentina could at least have made a better showing in the Falklands than it did. Argentina's three surviving submarines were never a factor in the struggle: one was apparently unserviceable, but the remaining two could and should have been deployed near the British fleet. The long Argentine aircraft carrier could have been deployed near enough to the Falklands to increase Argentine air cover there tremendously. The sinking of a British aircraft carrier would have halved British air power, as well as demoralised the entire British expeditionary force - this should have been the first priority of the Argentine Navy. The Argentine Air Force probably did as well as possible with the mixture of old and new equipment available to it: if more Exocet missiles had been purchased, if newer aircraft had been obtained, perhaps the outcome might have been different. The Argentine Army made a very poor showing indeed: with better officers, better supply lines, with more aggressive tactics, Argentina could have at least fought the British to a standstill, and perhaps driven them off the beaches at Port San Carlos. But they did not, a fact over which military historians will be pondering for decades to come."

[b]Source: R. Reginald & J.M. Elliot, 'Tempest in a Teapot : The Falkland Islands War', (1983), The Borgo Press, San Bernardino, California, USA

the nigerian, henry who replied the south africans did a good job, though i regret to say that he is doing the same thing he accused me of, he said i was talking gibberish and ranted, now the south africans' low level of education and calculative judgement has irritated him and he has also began to gibber and rant. however in our nigerian gibber/rant is the truth, the whole truth. henry owes me an apology (lol).

fellow commentators, let the south africans continue to show their lower level of judgement, there is no group of black people in the world that can beat nigerians in head to head use of intelligence and wisdom. nigeria was quoted by a south african as flying MIG 29 Fulcrum and we dont have it, no south african quoted the many bhundreds of very modern and latest european technology amoured vehicles COBRAS from turkey and VBL from france that the nigerian army publicly paraded in large numbers before international diplomats in 2010 and you can view that parade's video free on you-tube, no south african quoted nigeria's total airspace radar coverage for air defence, no one quoted nigeria's ex-airforce chief late air marshal ibrahim alfa's comment in the guardian newspapers that nigeria maintains air defence capability equal in sophistication to the top arab nations, and he also said the deciding factor in war is not how many weapons you parade but how you use them and your wisdom in deploying them in the best manner. nigeria's military policy and strategy is defensive, because we dont make trouble like iraq. thus, the SAM missile air-defence capability of nigeria is top secret and 99.9% on nigerians will never have access to that information, even most military officers in nigeria dont know, that information is not globally published and it is best obtainable by espionage information. nigeria believes in safeguarding itself from external aggression and that is its defence policy thrust. i have some of the information because i know one of the private companies that won the contract for the hardware, but i will never post it on a public website as that will be a betrayal of my country. let any Grippen try to fly through that total radar coverage integrated with SAM missiles in underground silos...that is a little revelation of secrecy...location and deployment of weaponry.

anyone who has time to waste can continue replying the south africans who envy the average nigerian because he is intellectually superior to the average south african. a rank in the army does not qualify you to make correct rankings of countries military power, you need the joint opinion of military officers, military analysts, war history experts, weaponry experts, and experienced battle tested combatant soldiers above the rank of a captain.

global firepower website of rankings is not reliable, it ranked iran above germany, it ranked thailand above ukraine and it ranked singapore above denmark, and that is the madness of ranking that the south african soldier on this topic is relying on as his source of information and he asked all of us to go and read that ? are nigerian's fools ? no sir !! a rank in the army does not qualify you to make correct rankings of countries military power, you need the joint opinion of military officers, military analysts, war history experts, weaponry experts, and experienced battle tested combatant soldiers above the rank of captain, this because when you do rankings you are actually predicting who will win a war...and many factors determine the outcome of a war, not just mnanufacturing or stockpiling weapons.

Why can't take the heat.

You implied that you had inside knowlege. You still implying you have inside knowldge.

Forgniners can and do join other nations milltary. The fastest way to get citzinship is this methode. The jobs avaibil is limted to those that do not handle sensertive info.

So you have contacts in the miltary circel but not in the circel your self. Yet you act all knowing.

It a intriting piece. Did not learn any thing though.and there where a few minor points I disagree with (the argies had a aicradt carrier and in my opion it was a better ship than a old cruisser but that nit picking)

I adressed Henry persnoly so will not cover it here again.

COBRAS and VBL modern. They out classed by 1970,s caspper.

You wrong. It was mentiond. I still said persnolly in Air defense nigeria was better. Air deffense includes Radar. SANDF all so has 100% covarge so talking about it was poitless. Nigeria has more things to shoot at the enemy though. But has I said before a lot of it is out dated. You do know that the arab air defense has a history of bieing destroyed or penertrated.

Has I said the gripen could pentrated that radar sytem.

I don't enevy nigeria or nigerians. If you guys are full of so many smart people why do you keep voting in morons, blow your selfs up, run towards overturend fuel truks then wonder why every body gets burnet. I am do not want to make this a persnal attack on nigeria but if you want to male this persnol we can.

I have many times said global firepower is hog wash.I said go read janes defense review.

Henry120: Let me go back to our navy. We do not have bigger ships as south africa does because our current challenges do not demand it. I don't see how you'd want to combat piracy with an air craft carrier. So basically what we have at the moment is a brown water navy, we still have frigates and corvettes. The navy in nigeria is predominately brown water so you cannot really compare it to SA navy which has more ocean going vessels. In terms of small and medium crafts nigeria has a very impressive haul of crafts.

However if a push turns to a punch, and we are to go to war with SA, the navy would radically improve. Our current needs do not demand them, since pirates and militants mainly operate in shallow waters. We've got the 2nd largest economy in africa, soon to be number 1, so radically building the navy as at when the situation would demand it won't be too much of a problem for us.

Has I said the nigerian navy is good at what it does. Fighting pirats in inshoar waters. Most of the places your navy sail's is to shalow for our large warships. And yes you do have more small patrol boats than us. Never disputed that.

A navy is one thing that can not be built up fast. Of all the armes of servis it the longest to build up. And you been saying you will be number one for years.

Henry120: If the south african helo has better performance than the united states apache as you claim, and is only lacking good radar system, why is it that south africa is the only known user of the roovialk, it should be popular amongst african nations at least. So why then is this not the case? Now you are blaming the U.S. I'm sorry, the truth is your helos are sub-par. You can't tell me that the US just wants to undermine south africa, what about china? Bros abeg leave that thing.

Your choppers, brilliant effort, but sub-standard. This is the truth!!!!! Don't come hear to blame the US.

There is nothing, absolute nothing on the nigerian military online, so stop all these your search online talk, go to janes defence web talk. The only reliable information you can get of the military at ship house(DHQ) in abuja. I'm not saying that there are no challenges, in equipment(advanced), but in comparism to south africa army ( not the airforce or navy), we are better off. Do not think that south africa is the only major defence manufacturer on the continent, nigeria is also up there, either in partnership with steyr group in the production of MRAPs and APC or just nigerian military engineers. Since the advent of democracy in 1999 our budget has reason from 1.7-6 billion usd/per year. It is however lower this coming year as we cannot be spending so much defence, when we got other such as improved health care, education et al to deal with.

You say our air defence systems are out dated. I laugh, why not ask one of your pilots to take your SAAB gripen's you people paste all over the internet, over lagos so we can test the system. I just wonder how you guys think, you want us to splash all we over all over the internet, so that an aggressor would know what facility to first attack/ beware of. Does that really mak any sense to you?

SF, nigeria SF is newly formed, and at the moment cannot be compared to SA recces, but within a couple of years, say 3-4 years, we would be better, as SF members continue to under go rigorous training and more experience from real life events, and not training like SA SF.

Your last sentence just shows how silly you can be. Do they do that in your country. At least I know soldiers in this country are not HIV & AIDS infested like both white and black SANDF members or do not kill un armed miners protesting over pay.

Geo poltics, price, the rest of the deal. Amrica and other nato coutrys have well established production limes so can see cheaper hell they can just sell the second hand stuff. Buying wepaons is not like buying cars, it a mark of frendship NATO nations will buy from NATO nations where ever they can. Amrica offers better support(of course this binds send nation to amrica)

I not blaming amrica, it just live. Turkey droped the rooifalk to get a western choper so has to increase ties because they wanted EU membership.


So I take it you never visted janes. It is pricy but I lucky, I never have to pay.

We are the largest manufaocter and produce the most adavance tech in africa. Buildind a MRAP is easy iraq was doing it during the hight of the war there people in a amrica where making them with only 10 people. The devolopment is the hard part what good wepaon did nigeria devlope on it's own and I mean good not that UAV.

SA spendest the lowest in terms of GDP on deffense on the conteint only 1.2%. The hope is to get it to 2% if we can do what we do at 1.2% that extra .8% will do wonders.

Ok I will they will fly low and use there ECM/EW sytems to hind them selfs. If they can hide from a german/sa navel task force that is knows they there they can hide from a grond based radar where there lots more interferiance. And by hiding I mean staying at stand off distance and taking out the sytem with long range wepaons. It called SEAD or DEAD.

Sa SF don't just train they deploy all over the world there mission are secrite but they not just sitting in SA. A few places where they have been and are that are public domain.

DRC
Burindiy
Sudan
Mozimbique and zim border areas.

There are other places but they not public knowledg. Our SF have the best training in africa and are rated one of the best in the world. I doubt nigeria could catch up in 3 to 4 years.

HiV and AIDS rate in the SANDF is lower the the genrail popultion and is decreasing faster. And no we never shot miners we where there but we are all ways the last line. And we genraily never shoot when deployed on these poliece suport missions.

Henry120: I don't know where you south africans/ africans get your your notion of the nigerian military been not well trained or equipped. The nigerian armed forces and staff college in JAJI, kaduna state is the BEST military college in africa. The nigerian military always receive top honours on abroad tours/ trainings. Keeping believing that gibberish of nigeria army officers been poorly trained / equipped you read on line. After all, it's a free world.

For the benefit of doubts the reason so little is known about the nigerian military is that information coming out of the military is tightly controlled unlike In say, SA or egypt. However there is no dispute about the fact that SA airforce is better than nigeria's airforce, the NAVY is some what better than nigeria, offcourse it is disputable as our threats at the moment do not require too many blue water ships, but we got an impressive haul of both small and medium sized crafts, the largest haul of small or medium sized crafts anywhere in the continent. The navy is also in line to receive 7 brand new OPV's from both china and piprav shipping plant in india, so the talk of south africa having more blue/ ocean going vessels than nigeria would die of this coming 2013.

As for the army it is either you south africans are ignorant or just want to dis tort information. I'm sorry nigeria's army is far ahead of SA army whether in training, morale or equipment. We in nigeria have proven that in tours abroad right from. Burma( when we served under the british) during world war II down to this very moment. We people say that nigeria's military is undisciplined or lack training, I just crack up and laugh. When those malicious, poorly written reports where put down, we were handing it to the rebels in liberia, SLR, somalia (in 1993) and Camerounians in bakassi. Four conflicts. The facts in these areas speak for themselves, we nigerians have proven ourselves in combat over and over again. So comparing SA army to NIGERIA army, is simply put, gross daydreaming!!!!

10 russian MI-17 terminator helos would be delivered in the first quarter of 2013 to add to our growing/ large fleet of MI-35p, MI-24 hind and MI-17 attack. Now all these, are info released by the air force. What about what is not released to the public. We are not looking for anybody's approval or a "pat on the back", to say well done or good job. We get our job done. Besides when people say SA military hardware, it is the MRAPs most people go for. your helicopters lack good technology, so that one is out of the question.

So if I'm to rate SA military/ against nigeria's
SA air force better than nigeria airforce = true

SA navy against nigeria navy = true/ somewhat

SA army against nigeria army = day dreaming, nigeria better.

SA air defence against nigeria = nigeria better

You either agree or dis agree, but these are the facts.

they got training but they dont have good or a lot of advance gear.

according to who is it the best training college and the solders sent on forghin courises are the best of the best if they dont do good there somthing wrong with the sytem.

no one saying nigeria crap just that they over rated.

there tones of info on the nigeria milltarry. dont rely on the internet or if you do spend some money and use janes defense web site. The resone you dont know this info is you never tried to do research.

SAN is planing on geting 6 opv's at least 1 LPHD, another combat and talks this year where of 2 more frigats so no we will still have like all ways the most power full navy in africa


how is it day dreaming, we spend more money and time in traing got better gear and have hertiage going backe before ww1. so no the only thing nigeria has is numbers.

nothing is been hidden. you just need to spend more time looking.

sorry the rooifalk is faster, has more armour, better mouvabliety, speed and has good avionics has the apachy. it just dose not have the long bow radar and the amricans undercut us every time we tried to sell it.

air force sa

navy sa

army 50/50 the size of the nigerian army is a Player

air defense is in nigerias favour but the sytems are so out of date and old they no threat to a modern air force

SF is all south africa. nigeria has nothing on the recces


i find it strang how people think SANDF members have low moral. We got great pay (far better than any in nigeria) and great benfits life is great for us and we know we have it good. There was a time when this was not the case but a that was some time ago. now we are happy. we dont need to rob our own civlians at check points.

agaugust: sorry gentlemen, i think we have some rude and under-aged people writing comments here, or just maybe old men with no good manners, insulting words are used by the south african men on this site and for this topic, i thank God i have decided not to contribute again since some people are not operating at the same privileged level that i am with information directly form USA and EU military circles. true professionals dont waste their knowledge where it is not appreciated.

i cannot downgrade myself to the level of a south african 'army sergent' if at all he is truly a military man. i dont believe him because i did not see him display a flash of military doctrine and discipline in the way he talks to people on this forum, a true military officer well trained as he claims they are in south africa, will not use insults on people over this topic. this south african writers on nairaland are either fake soldiers or junior and poorly educated recruits or NCO, and their level of competence to write of a complex military topic like this, is very doubtful. this is a topic for generals or top class military analysts to rank a continent's military powers.

war history since 1939 to 2012, has taught every army general a lesson, who is the best military power ? who is the top of the rankings among countries ? the answer is simple and certain only after the bloody war ends, the superior country is the one that wins at the final end of the war, not before the war ! wisdom for you all. thanks.

I see no rudeness. The talk may be direct but it is not rude.

I highly doubt you got privlaged info from any NATO nation. It just to far fetched. You may have access to info that is not public domian but that not classfied info.

Direct is not rude. And the SANDF is direct you don't coat your words with love and cuddeld people. If you can't handel it you in the wrong profession.

We not rude we just don't like how you spread falls info.

If you doubt me you can check me up. A man with your claimed job would be anle to check my force number out. (06011266MC)

advocate666: All these talk of who strong pass na tory. Na when you hear gboaa! you go know who is who.
No be so dem talk say iraq this, iraq that. Then under 2 weeks, they were annihilated.

No one saying any thing about fighting amrica.

For the intrested party. I am 3 years SANDF SA navy. (06011266 MC)

Just like to add some info about our subs. The USN rates our submarine servis in the top 5 of convtional submairn servises.

agaugust: you want to joke with algeria ? south africa is NOT the main supplier of algeria's weapons, most of her weapons are russian made. algerian airforce is reputed to train combat pilots heavily, that is why it has 73 albatross trainer/attack jets to ensure intensive and regular training, it can afford it, algeria is one of the major oil and gas rich countries of the world. its has about 100 total of MIG 29 upgrades and SU-30 Flankers which are superior to american F15, and over 150 helicopters including 35 attack helicopter gunships, and its pilots are reputed to be very well trained which made libya's gadaffi always fear to war against algeria. which african country has such a powerful airforce? not even south africa, only egypt. the heavy tanks and armoured fighting vehicles of algerian army is numbered in several thousands and well maintained by algeria's oil wealth. south africa is not as strong as algeria, don't forget that infantry men's fighting spirit is very vital in combat, ask the french military to tell you the natural fighting spirit of an algerian soldier, they are the toughest in the arab world, read their army's history and warrior tradition, they hardly retreat in combat. south africans are not great fighters of modern wars, not zulu spear or inkatha stick/clubs/machetes war, i mean modern combat.

south africa is living on past glory of the white man's era, it is gone, and the military of south africa is not as strong now as in the apartheid days. the men dont have the kind of personal competence nigerian army has, the nigerian officers are trained in USA,Britain,India,Germany and Italy, they dont train in south africa. the nigerian junior soldiers are trained by the officers who return form USA and Europe with first class grade in the British and American military colleges. People under estimate nigeria's military power, it is a nation that keeps secrets about its hidden military capabilities since it began special combat capacity building because of the perceived threat from france over the bakassi land dispute with cameroun. nigerian navy is reputed for recent secret anti-submarine capability which it acquired instead of buying submarines. the so called stealth frigates of south african navy....it is not a battle tested technology yet, never baost of so called new weapons that have not faced good electronic counter-measures in real war, not in the the laboratory. nigerian navy is not a brown water navy for just internal marine creeks warfare. nigerian navy is the first wholly black nation navy to sail a single frigate ship across the equator to the continent of south america to participate in brazil's navy anniversary some few years ago, the true test of any navy is the ability to sail across the equator and return back home without any special support ship or air/land logistic support. nigeria in a state of war will shock many people, it has a strategic military plan to put 90% of its weapons and equipment into full combat operation within 7 days of threat. also try and ask military analysts who know about the world class skills of nigerian army artilery brigades...very deadly marksmen with renowned skill of long range accuracy bombardment, and not antiquated with old howitzers, they operate italian mordern palmaria mobile self propelled artillery.

in a global army generals' conference in china 1993, nigeria's chief of army staff general salihu ibrahim simulated a ground battle defense senario and asked world class army generals to simulate an attack to unlock that defensive tactics, all of them could not break into the defensive position he created, they asked him to reveal the attack solution but he refused to reveal it. after that incident the chinese military wrote to the nigerian presidency asking for joint military training programmes for combat knowledge sharing between nigeria and china. has any country invited south african military to display real life combat knowlege? who is ready to face the nigerian army head to head among the soldiers in south africa? respect true experience of many years, the white man respects experience, but a black man does not value experience and that is why he is backward and under-developed.

egypt has internal problems, every country has internal problems. britain had IRA attack like boko-haram in nigeria, spain still has basque people attacking from inside like boko-haram in nigeria. any fool that wants to attack egypt now can go ahead and try it, you will see egypt unite to defend themselves and destroy the common external enemy, then after winning the war they will come back and face their internal problems. if it is your family that has internal dispute and then thieves break into your house and you have guns, wont you fight the enemy first and come back to do family quarell later? you too think now?

sudan is a country people think is weak. their army has historic combat experience with the british army, and they defeated the british after some time of war. the country is now well eqipped with very latest russian weapons and in large numbers of equipment, they use them in battle for over 20 years of civil war, and the oil wealth of sudan has kept them well trained and well maintained. its airforce fies latest SU-30 Flankers.

south africa is manufacturing weapons, yes, but is it factory production that wins a war? argentina manufactures combat aircraft but can it defeat pakistan or north korea ? how many internally manufactured weapons does a producing country buy to equip its military? it matters, ask belgium. numbers matter. what is the quality and fighting spirit of the soldiers who operate the weapons produced in their own home country? it matters, ask libya. south africa has mordern weapons but its numbers in use are too low compared to egypt, algeria, and in some cases nigeria. why do you think america fears china and south korea fears north korea? heavy numbers can be difficult to handle in real war, ask pakistan about india.

south africa is living on past glory of the white man's apartheid era which is now over with the black man in control, the usual black man's second class ability has weakened south africa.

also note that nigeria researched, developed and built drone aircraft for unmanned air attacks, heavy patrol naval craft, armoured personnel carriers as well. i saw them all with my own eyes during launching ceremonies and combat testing. it produces its infantry light and heavy weapons and nigeria is secretly advancing its nuclear weapons development. any fool that wants to attack nigeria among african countries can go ahead and try.

Never said the bulk of the wepaons where south african. Only that we sell to them. Those hinds they have are upfraded versions the upgrade was done by south africa. There new frigats will have south african tech and wepaons extra extra.

I never said the slgerian air foce was small or weak. But air power dose not win wars. During the border war the cubans had more and better aircraft. Never helped them.

So what SANDF dose not have fighting spirt. Ask the brits, angolans, germains, italians, cubans extra about our fighting spirt.

What so we don't send officers over seas. That is standard pratics. But how about this. The Amrican army SOCOM came to learn from us. Not train us but be trainded by us in bush craft.

They not that secruit. Just no one bother to make it front line news or put it on the internet. The internet is not the best source for milltary info. A milltary libary is a better option.

What do you mean so callded stealth. It is stealth and ECM/EW of SAN is light years ahead of any one in africa. And our navy takes part in a number of war games against NATO and fellow devopling navys to test our sytems.

One frigat. SA sails to south amrica and europe regulay. It not a chalge for us but routien.

And nigeria is claserfied has a brown water navy. The abliety to sail in deep sea is not what makes you a blue water navy. It is the abielty to fight there that makes you a blue water navy. And one old frigat and a second hand US coast guard cutter is not a blue water force. And has I said before it not a insult. Nigeria has difrent needs from it's navy than SA.

The G6 and G5 are not old. They the most modern howzets in servis in the world since the yanks canceld the palldin.

NATO has. They asked a few times.

Egypt has a lot of internal problems and would fall in to anarchy if it used it's full milltary might. All so all that forghin USA milltary Aid helps. With out it it will fall.

Algeria is not that good. It is becoming a force to fear but it not there yet. SA is selling a lot of gear to them.

The NN may be larger but it is a brown water navy with a lot of marines the SAN is a Blue water navy. The NN is good at what it does but no african navy could stand up to the SAN. Those stealth frigats and subs real swing thr balance our way. Nigeria has a larger army but the SA army has a lot more advance tech a lot of it world class or even the best in the world. Still the size of the Nigerian army is Player. I don't know how much traing they can achieve with there budget though. I mean it is smaller than the south africans but there numbers are larger. There are some areas where currently nigeria has a edge Air defense for example. But SA is working on this. Has for nigerian artlliary vs SA artlliary the G6 and G5 sytems are world beatters not even NATO has any thing that comes close. And though the SANDF has not fought a full on war we still have forces in peace keeping all over africa and there was Angola that taught us a lot(the SADF sollders where not chaist away). Air force is a no brainer.

I would drop sudan they have no experiance in fighting a army only rag tang milltias.


You should think of adding ZIM to that list. Air force may struggel in air supoirty but only a few other african air forces could do better and they good and air suport they have a large army and are being backed by china. They not part of the best but they still not a push over and if south africa was not here they would be a real threat to let's say botswana.

the DA is starting to get on my nerv. They don't know what they talking about most of the time when it comes to deffense issues yet they act all knowing.

ROSSIKE: Oh.. it suddenly rose from 49.5 to 60 yrs in a year or two? Is that some sort of joke? It's obvious the research is severely flawed to have South Africa posting a lower life expectancy than Sierra Leone and DRC.

It is due to AIDS. At one point AIDS at 20 ment dead before 30 now with increase in the effectvness AIDS medication and decrease in the rate of what it is spreading the statsic changes. It is all so a rough value. All so how many of the people who's famly members are so old live in a squater camp or on the side of the road.

snydergp: Dis waar ja, but the problem most systems is that maintenance are lacking especially during peace times. EW systems are essential today but with current advanced electronics even smaller militaries have worked there way around "some" of them. The key to everything today is budgets.

The problem SA faces is the current deffense budget and pressing needs of developement vs stratigic regional and national needs military wise.

African nations wants SA to play a more important role in regional affairs and continental roles but SA's opposition parties including some within the ruling party wants a smaller SANDF which can have dire consiquences for SA's future.

But what I know is the commision that was setup to look into SA's current deffense needs has said that SA's deffense budget needs to increase by 2,8% year on year just to meet its current needs and the goverment said that it would strongly look into this and make recommendations on in regard in 2013.

Yes the budget is a problem. 1.3% is fine for peace time but we have more asserts deployed in forghin counties now than we had during the border war I mean there where only 3000 in angola at any one time. The defense force is operating at a war time level with a peace time budget. And all tough it can do this it dose strain other areas. For exampil 2010 naval intake was around 500 2011 around 400 and this years 2012 was around 300. There no money for more people. Then there is the big problem. If we need to deploy a rapid force now we could only get under 5000 about 5 batlions. That not enough to say launch a strike on zim. I know we need to deploy over seas but not at a risk of home defense. And what I want to know is how the nigerians are handling things. They got a much larger force than us but there budget is less. Where they cutting corners.

seble66: Fact egypt, south africa and Ethiopia. Ethiopians are well experienced. http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Egypt

I don't like globalfirepower does not take every thing in to account.

snydergp: Although the S300 is still a potent air deffense system u shouldn't talk nonsense its a well known fact that the S300 can track low altitude missiles but it is inaffective with regards to low altitude subsonic modern weapons

A few years back Isreal destroyed a Syrian nuclear site eventhough the Syrians also uses the S300. The isreali's used communiction and radar jammers to render the socalled S300 useless. So Let's just stop this bogues foolish fairytales please

Not saying you a laire but a lot of that is has a result to the radar used. And yes most people don't give enough credit to EW/ECM. Take the frigat in the SAN with out EW and you can not see them.

Yes i am saying the write up is wrong.

When did we ever meet.

yes why would we want to take the lead. the fighting there dose not effect us. It is in ECOWAS so your mess. When zim falls in to civil war then we wll give a dame.

that more like your typical african politician

What drugs you guys on. Why would they have held a Economic Community of West African States press briefing in. South Africa. Yes we supporting the opertion has a member of the AU but has this ECOWAS run operation it is only logical to base it out of Nigeria.

Africa has not turned to nigeria for guidence. The mission is AU mission with ECOWAS has the lead group.

And SA has ended civil wars in many countries something nigeria can not even achieve in it's own.

People should stop talking out there ASS

LBT: ( Your General or any analyst who tell you SA can defeat Nigeria most be a fool because with America advanced weapons the were disgraced in the korean war by Chinese/Korean troops backed with russian weapons and Vietnam, likewise in Afgan and even Iraq were they have no decisive victory. Libya is not on the top 5 list in Africa; libya was defeated in liberia, he was also defeated by Niger Republic in the toyota war. Libya had more men and advanced weapons in their war in Niger Republic but they were defeated by a lightly armed military. The British weapons and military are better than that of America but in war america will defeat them. Please get your facts right. Russian made weapons are by far better than America or Nato weapons but the west use propaganda to deceive us that their weapons are better and they are strong, which are lies. If true, why do they bring so many countries in Nato? Nigerian military have more combat experience than SA military.

What you talking about. UN forces in Korea never struggled. And at that point the tech gap was not high between east and west.

Russian do have some good tech but they behind the west.