₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
No, facts are not opinions.


Facts consists of raw data, specifications and performance indices with which proves beyond doubt that something is actually what it claims it is. A claim cannot be substantiated until facts are provided.... Until then, a claim is disposable.

it the opinion of a judge if some one guilty or not.

jln115:
Don't forget the HMI mate!!

Though is it unique to us

Henry240:
Not in this case, especially when the man projects sales of over 300 aircrafts after the South-African order. Projections which have proven to be unreliable.

I accrual agree with Nigeria in this case, our Gripens are different not better But facts are still opions

jln115:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aad-south-africa-receives-last-four-gripens-376804/

"The Gripen delivered to South Africa are " probably the most modern" versions of the aircraft , Lewis-Ollson says."

Oh and BTW Olsson is a former SAAB test pilot, if you doubted his credentials.

it is not our gripens that are more modern, just that they have more or different stuff. All gripens could use the HMD but we just used them first and though the A-darter is great the Swedish air force has a wider ranger of air to surface weapons. SAAF had many requirements for the gripen that are for us only, but ZA link is the same has Link 16 used by sweeden and others and we use the same EW these days and our radios are unquque for us, thats all really. In short there is no difference betwwen the aicraft only in our use of a HMD, but then again we had a HMD in the late 80s

Henry240:
Somebody's opinion doesn't equal fact.

well in many cases it is, though facts can change

iblawi:
South Africans claim their Gripen is the best in the world. It's even better than that of Sweden.

Citastion needed

kikuyu1:
IIRC,this is why the KAF said no the Grip when offered in 2008. Tactically speaking all the shortcomings compared to the Sue make it too defensive minded.
-Single engine
-short range
-combat radar short sighted

Its obvious! Just don't tell the S Africans!

Cheaper to run and maintain

Better in one v one air to air combat

Easyier to deploy from small or improvised runways.

Diffrent needs and requiments.

iblawi:
Lol

And you want to face Boko Haram.

10 hours assault funny.

10 hour assult over a area larger than some countries. Any case we know Nigerian solders dont carrie enough ammo for a 10 hour battle.

Henry240:
- I said I Tanzanian was selected for a leadership position before the circus clowns you call generals. Fact!


- The UN only saw it fit to appoint a South-African general when the country is relatively peaceful. No faith in the SANDF to perform under pressure.

Some one cant do maths. He was active in Burundi years ago.

horlams:
Cheaper? Really?

It is quite sloppy to say the Gripen is better than the su-30 ..vice versa too

Well yes. It is cheaper thanks to being more modern and single engiened.

africaken:
i said 400km not 40km,tell me which air to air missile's has those ranges! where did you read that a AWAC or tanker operating with 40 km range of the enemy!

Typo on my behalve

agaugust:
South Africa builds poor quality MRAPs. Fact !!

That MRAP was built to survive two anti-tank mine blasts, but only one wrecked it !

Southy defense industry products are NOT capable of the performance that DENEL and other manufacturers are claiming on paper and media advertisements... they are all LIARS !

Beautiful pictures for internet advertising photos/videos of bad sub standard products it the game played by South African weapons manufacturers.

We build hundrends of diffrent moddels and varrents from many factories and companies to meet a wide range of requiments. The REVA is not even used by south africa.

How do you know it was one minel.


What was the claim by ICP what was the out come. A MRAP is built to be blown apart but keep the crew alive and the crew are was not breached. So unless you have proof dont make claims. Not that it will stop you.

EVarn:
That is an impossibility.Moreover,if investors misbehave in your country,do you pat them on the head and wish them a merry chrismas?.This isnt SA where insolence is ignored.

We dont ignore but we dont drive invistors out. If MTN leaves Nigeria tge biggest looser is Nigeria Not MTN and south africa as country would not be effected.

agaugust:
.

[size=16pt] South African Made Poor Quality REVA MK III MRAP Sold To Nigeria...

Fake MRAP Masters Builders Of Soweto Making Poor Quality Over-rated Product

We Won't Buy More From You, Nigeria Will Soon Start Buying Proudly Nigerian Made Proforce ARA MRAPs, And We will Soon Snatch Away The African and Asian Market Sales From Southies

[/size]

https://i64.tinypic.com/2nkq2pz.jpg
.

No info of cassulties or size of the blast. Not to menstion diffrent MRAPs are built to stand up to different sized blasts.

agaugust:
South African Minister for defence CONFIRMED SANDF LOST WEAPONS IN BURUNDI and who has them if not rebels, is it in the hands of school children?

"Minister of Defence Mosiuoa Lekota, who has admitted that addressing the logistics crisis in the department was one of its main challenges, last month revealed to parliament that the following pieces of weaponry "have both been lost and stolen on peace support missions":

47,680 x 5.56mm rifle rounds
1,800 x 7.62mm rifle rounds
97 x 60mm mortar bombs
46 x 5.56 mm R-4 rifles
Three light machine-guns, two 9mm pistols, two grenades and four R-4 magazines. "

http://sbeta.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/burundi-bungle-leaves-sandf-chiefs-red-faced-300893


SANDF armoury was being looted in Burundi, you failed there. So AU should get competent army Generals from Angola, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, or Zimbabwe this time around.

Do even read links that are posted?

horlams:
Funny how the topic changed from 'Gripen is better than

the su-30' to 'Gripen is as good as the su-30'

In a dog fight the gripen holds a edge in strike missions the SU30 is better as a aircraft for your air force the gripen out classes the SU30 by being cheaper, faster and easier to maintain.

africaken:
i have an answer to your relief ,Novator K-100 is a Russian air-to-air missile known as the AWACS killer,with a range of 400 km

Want to know why it is calleda AWAC killer. Because it would struggle to hit any thing else. It is unable to target any thing beyond 40km. It is big and not agil and it is not even built.

I love how Nigerians still think they did any thing of note to ended Apartheid. Apartheid South Africa did more tp help Bifar than Nigeria did to help in the fight against Nigeria. No Nigerians spilt blood or even fired a shot. You where a minor bystander of no note or of importance. In fact the britsh goverment did more to end apartheid than Nigeria.

agaugust:
When did SADF do that?

Show us history where your military fought 20,000 resident citizens heavily armed religious fanatics that massacre tbousands of fellow black citizens in their own homeland where they live together in towns and cities...and your hundreds of black Zulu suicide bombers killing fellow Zulus and Bantus in the public markets and bus terminals
.

Who do you think we fought in Angola and Namibia.

agaugust:
Until SANDF rights 20,000 homeland based citizen and resident religious terrorists armed with 23mm anti-aircraft guns, RPGs, long range morters, 105mm self propelled artillery, Shilka AAA, mortars, etc and mixed with innocent civilians on your streets, spread across 100 towns in South Africa and hiding camps in Kruger Park bush, with 1,000 ready to die suicide bömbers in the cities and shopping malls, you won't realize your military has ZERO experience in fighting a 21st century modern day asymmetric war on homesoil
.

Lol we did that. Thats not 21st century warfare.

agaugust:
Enemy IFV too have 4 km range on their 30mm cannon, so they hit you hack !

Ancient 1970s SANDF obsolete battle field tactics, I wish you were here two weeks ago when we say your army arrayed in battle like Rugby players on the football field with official lines drawn to separate them from the enemy.... Go read the comments on AMANI exercise on the other African military photo thread, but don't comment there , this is the thread for arguments.

No wonder SANDF uses that obsolete tactics, your army has been ordered by ministry of defence to always stay 4 km away from the enemy..... South Africans are cowards.....chicken soldiers afraid of death.

Fools of Pretoria, so your ministry for defence determine s how far away the enemy must stay away from SANDF in battle? Was Selena rebel force 4 km or 4,000 m away from you when they killed your soldiers with AK-47 rifle that had less 0.3 km or 300 m effective range? Olodo.
.

Badger can shrug of 30mm sabout rounds fired from point blank. And effective range is not max range. The 105mm sabout we use as a max range of all most 30km. Try to hit or pen a target at that range. Same as the 12.7mm. Sure max range 6.8km but effective range is only 1.8km. The MK44 the most used 30x173mm auto canon effective rangebis only 3000m 1000m less. Both have the same max range.


Again open day at is 1 day and takes place in a small fiels so the spectators can see every thing. The area used for the actual training is not shown.

SA miltary doctrine in fighting a hostil army. Do not hold ground or take ground unless aboultly needed, use mobilty to draw the enemy in to kill zones and deafet them from maxim distance. This is not cowardly this is fighting to win. We dont fight fare. If we can we will bring a brigade to destoye a platoon. So yes we need long range fire power. The mechnized force off the SANDF is our primary force for drfrning SA. The motorized is the primary force for peace keeping and boader patrols. In the event of a invasion motorised protect key points and lined of comuncastion from your asymmetric threats, the reacstion groups and speciol forces operate behind the lines. Mech force fight on thr front lines.


We did not send a mech infatry commpany to CAR now did we.

lionel4power:
that's where those 4 support ships comes in... they carry fuel, food and general logistics. 3 frigates and 10 corvette/fast attack craft will provide air defence and shore bombardment.

You assume a 100% readness on all ships plus zero needs else where? Fine 3 subs sink every thing all your men and supplies gone.

And again no trucks means no means to advance of the beach. And our guns can be far inland shelling the landing. Either you advance run out supplies, stay and get wiped out or retreat after suffering losses. Either way you dont have the means to launch a amphibious invastion. At best you could do a raid or support a land operation.

agaugust:
Stop using Wikipedia you slowpoke !

Even Wiki confirms the 911 terrorists included American citizen Muslims you dunce, dual citizenship.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki

How was he part of the 911 terrorists? All so he had us citizenship but was living in Yemen so your point is what?

lezz:
No according to world economic forum survey. Your country men are already brainstorming on solutions on the problem. (See PIC below) while you delusional, insecure, mischievous imp sits on a Nigerian forum denying your own funeral . _idiot.

I think we have a problem here in that you are a product of a failed Nigerian education sytem. Did you even read the links i posted. One is aimed just at the survey you brought up pointing out how meaningless it is. Hard data does not agree with you.

lezz:
PLEASE STOP THIS NONSENSE. YOU'RE EVEN LAST IN SCIENCE AND MATHEMATICS. THANKS TO ZULU ANC.

Again according to who
https://africacheck.org/reports/is-sa-bottom-of-the-class-in-maths-and-science-why-ranking-is-meaningless/

Secondly, the ranking was derived from an annual “Executive Opinion Survey” carried out by the WEF. This opinion survey draws on interviews with various unidentified “business leaders”.

In this instance, around 50 South African “business leaders” were asked to assess the quality of maths and science education in the country and score it from poor to excellent. Individual responses were then arbitrarily weighted according to the sector each “business leader” worked in. The weighting was based on the “estimated contributions to a country’s GDP of each of the four main economic sectors: agriculture, manufacturing industry, non-manufacturing industry, and services”.

lezz:
but your education system is ranked 140 out of 144 countries.

According to who

https://africacheck.org/reports/is-sas-education-system-the-worst-in-africa-not-according-to-the-data/

lezz:
If Nigeria and Egypt are flogging you on the economic front while fighting insurgency and terrorism for ages, it is quite an embarrassment and humiliation for south Africa then.

And please, your GDP per capita nonsense is only an irrelevant consultation price. UN, IMF and world power politics rely on raw GDP standing.

After all, almighty US has never been No. 1 in per capita standing at anytime in history.

So lick your wound. This is just the beginning of your free falling. In the next five years Ethiopia and Uganda will push you further down.

What a shame!!!

By cash i mean cash. We spend more on education than you spend.

agaugust:
SANDF has no bridge in Congo DRC.

Sea to shore ship to land artillery bombardment is done before amphibious landing IF coast is defended, many coasts are undefended too.

Normandy beach was blasted with ship to land artillery bombardment before Juno landing by amphibious vehicles. You claim to be in the navy and yet do not know what shore bombardment/fire support is

That's why you like to run away from me on this forum....when i crush ya ballz

Again do we need one. You yet to show a need for one.

And we talking nigeria here not the alied forces. You do all so remember that there where still coutless surving defenders after the bombardment and that if Rommel or any other German commander with balls to defy hitler had been there to oder the panzers on the beaches the invasion may of failed.

agaugust:
Single shot capability ONLY 60 rounds per minute.....fvcking slow rate of fire on a $ 5 million Badger IFV !

Nigerian 23mm Igirigi fires 1000 rounds per minute !

Nigerian 30mm BTR-4 fire 500 rounds per minute !

Acording to your own link it is 100. 60rpm is on the 3 shot burst. Aka 3 shots in rapid procession followed by pausess then 3 more.

Again neither one is a 30x173mm gun. The 30x173 is a slower firing gun but is far more accurate and powerful. The badger could sit 4000m away and fire accurate bursts destroying targets that will be firring all over. The odd shot that hits would just bounc off. The defence review even calls for this. Saying the mechnized force should engage any invader from maxim range.

Henry240:
The Nigerian military cannot spare any helicopter for the President's junketing. There are many reasons why, unavailability, maintenance, competing priorities et al.

The President moves around the country a lot, it makes sense to have his transport available whenever and wherever he needs it.

Then why can zuma his wives, all our senior officers and Minster of defence use our standard helicopters that can then be used for any other task.

agaugust:
Your army always operates in battalion size? Platoons/Company carry huge bridges around on top of their MRAP? All your battalions always carry bridges around ? We have not seen one bridge following your MRAPs around in AU or UN operations.

SANDF engineers in Congo DRC, are they bridge construction engineers? Engineering corps include motor engine repair mechanics you dunce.

Show us proof of SANDF bridge construction equipment in Congo DRC.

8km water crossing speed, not 5km. How is it suicide? I just showed you American marines doing it last year 2014, you a navy cook thinks they are sailing into suicide just because SANDF does not have any amphibious armoured vehicle, then those who have it are committing suicide to justify your own army not having such capability. Now you have a bigger brain than the whole US Marine corps generals? Olodo.

"It’s really important for us as an amphibious unit to work well with the Navy,” said Staff Sgt. Jesse Ullman, section leader with 2nd AA Bn, and a native of Dallas, Texas. “Amphibious operations were less of a focus due to the type of war we’ve been fighting (in Iraq and Afghanistan). Today is about getting Marines back to the basics, back to our roots.”

As the U.S. military draws down its forces in the Middle East, the Marine Corps is refocusing on the Pacific and returning to its amphibious origins. Training events like this are not common, making the experience invaluable to the Marines."

http://www.doncio.navy.mil/CHIPS/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=5395
.

A battlion is the smallest military organization capable of independent operations. Hence i use them as a example. Those platoons belong to a battlion. See any rivers in the pics of SA solders in drc or sudan.



http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6558:fact-file-the-sa-engineering-corps-&catid=79:fact-files&Itemid=159

In the SANDF engineers are all about moblitie.


You have yet to show the need for them.


Did USMC do a landing on a beach held by the enemy, not some exersizes firing blanks. A battry of 12.7s will wreck your day and sink your entire force. And my point was the distance and speed. The USMC have far faster landing craft and can have air support. Somthing you dont have. A few now slow targets plodding along to a beach with no support.

agaugust:
.

[size=13pt] Big problem, SANDF new Badger IFV so much boasted about here, does NOT have automatic cannon !

It's GI-30 30mm Cam main gun fires only single shots like a bush animal hunter's rifle [/size]
.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/south_africa_african_army_wheeled_armoured_vehicle/badger_denel_8x8_armoured_infantry_fighting_vehicle_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures.html


.

100 rounds a min is about what other 30x173mm guns used on ifv achieve. So i fail to see what you on about.