₦airaland Forum

Henry240:
If military leaders can cooperate more, political leaders would naturally fall in line. How many times do African countries train together? I have never seen a Nigerian soldier train with a South-African, infact it had to take the intervention of the US to have a Nigerian train with a Camerounian,yeah....... We have our historical differences but, it shouldn't deter our collective national security.


Joint projects can work, if the so called big nations want to see it work.

Your airforce is here and i have seen nigerians do our courses and i think we send officers to each other.


All ways seemed strage we did not do a exersize with your OPV when it was enroute to Nigeria or train with you when you when going to Aussie fleet review. Waisted optunties.



But in general we should look at getting a good coms sytem for the African stand By force. South Africa and Namibia both make great radio's and i am sure we could modfie Link ZA to make a Link AU with a ops center in each regional block.


In one of the reports i read from the US and SA war games the Op For guys where able to exploit the poor coms between the US and SA forces. In the end a US captain joined the SA side so that the two groups could work together. The coms was a biger issue than the diffrince in training, doctrine and gear.

Henry240:
It is complete madness. How can anyone ask for that much money to only look at a problem. Hypothetically speaking, if the NAF had gone ahead with those contractors, they would have even billed us much more to have eastern bloc equipment on our western bloc aircraft. That's if they would agree to use eastern block equipment.


As a continent, we have no choice but to actively pursue indigenisation. Especially in the areas of land systems, Air defences and Air-to-Ground weapons. If we do not make these efforts now, we would continue to lose.


Also in Ocean going/sea keeping platforms. The vessels bought by senegal, OPV45 & OPV190 are too small to be awarding to foreign vendors.

Basic configurations of 45 meters and 58 meters vessels, Only armed with 20 mm cannons. These are the sort of projects that should be awarded to local companies, or you have those foreign companies come build them here.

The next big one should be a joint African Project of some kind. Maybe could invest in developing communication sytem since it all ways the thing that makes joint ops harder.

tdayof:
Suppressive fire doesn't look like something that will work there . Two convoys down already and the terrorist had to keep firing. That convoy was hit already except they were able to get out, suppressive fire wouldn't work. The Humvee action shows cowardice.
I expected those in the vehicle hit to disembark and start something suppressive but seems they were locked in there.

Maybe it it wont maybe it will. You not what does not work. Standing still waiting to die. They did nothing but cower in there own graves.


To vehicle's down does not mean every one in side is dead. In Mogadishu during the hole black hawk down event after the crashes the injured crew and passangers fought back.

That guy was able to stand fully exposed and fire a AT weapon at them. One guy shooting there could of kept there head down. Suppressing fire is not to kill but to distract and pin the enemy.

The Humve was smart. He kept the correct following distance to avoide a crash and he may of been following the doctrine for a ambush. If he stoped what would be the out come. More dead Saudi Soldiers. At least if he is clear of the kill zone he can help.

Henry240:
Those guys would have died anyhow. They were ambushed from both sides of the mountain. What i don't get is, why are they running away, they have all the equipment they need to fight with, so why run away?


They got Humvee, the sub-standard vehicle from Georgia and an IFV, so why bolt?

They could of one. In angola a platoon of Parabats escaped a entire motorised infantry brigade.

In CAR SA forces where surrounded in a urban environment and escaped.


Sub standard training. I have seen video's from the war where they use a G6 in direct fire. So yeah Arab armies not the best armies.

tdayof:
That was a damn ambush. What were you expecting out there? Return fire while they are still trying to get out of the vehicle? The terrorist had to suppress them with RPG's.

Yes it was a ambushe and they showed zero effort in conducting a counter ambush drill. In SA the troops disembarked and lay down supprising fire while the 60mm mortars and grenade launchers zero in. Then you attack.

Showed to to a MRS guy. He pointed out the LAV following distance was to close.


A lot of solders died in Angola and Namibia in learning dont speed. Thpugh that was more because speeding + landmine = flipping. Any case problems where the LAV going to fast to close to avoide the crash. After the crash they stayed buttoned up when you should dismount and attack. The vehicle any is a big target and will draw fire so dont be in one if it is trapped.

Speed kills

tdayof:
what type of ECM are these alpha jets equipped with?

Nothing standard and i doubt Nigeria has pods for them. Tthey probably have flares and not much else.

thedarksider:
i noticed,yes,,,,how is it that we are still high-life with alfas and the ugandans are flying sukois?....

algria does not agree though that's why they spent a fare bit of money to upgrade there Russian stuff with with western sytems and why they buy from the west. Same in SA where we have never bought any thing from the east other than I think one T72

thedarksider:
why is it,that black-nations doing business with russia,have much better hardware than black-nations doing business with western nations??..

Do they though?

LTGEN:
Thank you guys for being matured with your responses with no name calling or chest beating or disparaging comments this is not a Nigeria versus S'Africa contest, and let me remove any doubt, The S'African Military industrial complex is years ahead however that is not the issue.
Thank you Mr Henry for setting Mr " D" straight the focus of my discussion was the Gecko and the other IFV that was profiled and I detailed a vast open hostile area like the Lake Chad or the Bad lands between Kenya and Somalia
Mr Patches with great respect you are not going to sneaking up on anybody, this is not a static warfare and i say this with great respect for your knowledge you Geckos would of already been on the ground and they will be facing a swarm of Technical that have a range of 2 k.m Mr HENRY Please tell him the name of BH FAVORITE TECHNICAL.
I will go to the battle of Bangui by BH standards that was SYMMETRIC WAR and S'Africa still lost quite a few of those Gecko , and yes Nigeria has lost equipment ( lots) to . When I see those pictures of those GECKO actually "towing" heavy equipment I see a bullet riddled Gecko with Multiple casualties the day the Air force does not show up on time,
In Nigeria with CAS intervention time is now 15 minutes however you are expected to fight on your own for a least an hour.
i do not pray to see the day S'A frican wake up to see that their " jeep" is obsolete but the fact is the next real asymmetric war they will fight will be it, then the enemy is not going to wait for you to load your equipment up and land decently at your DZ that to me is Static warfare so far S'AFRICA has been blessed in the DRC, I hope it stays that way.
Mr" D" like MR Henry said Nigeria has made do with what it had, let me tell to you one grim change they made :The OCKTAR apc does not seem to feature prominently any more in intensive fire fight before like the GECKO they were all over the place.

The geekos where lost in a ambush along side the Toyotas and other transports other than the hornets who where not there.

To explain there role here is little "thought experiment"


Lets say Lesotho completely collapses and a group that tries to take power wants to capture the highland water project. This provids power to Lesotho and water to south africa. Holding this could give that side a lot of leverage

So in response SA sends in special forces. The advance team would arrive in hours with Oryx helicopters less if we have forewarning. Next still same day more would arrive these guys would bring heavy weapons that the hornet could carry along with CnC equipment and other gear that the hornet could carry. Next same day a Para trooper company would be deployed. They would due to distance and numbers would probaly useva C130 for a lot of there stuff. Of course they cant land on the dam. Si they drop some distance away in a open area. They will have to travel to the dam and the geekos would greatly aid them by carrying supplies and heavy equipment.


The geeko is not being used in the DRC. It has no role there and the SA troops have Trucks. The hornet could be there and would have limted use in working as a Rapid response vechile and some areas Of The DRC are ill suited to MRAPs eg narrow moutian roads. But for patrols, convoy escorts, attacks extra the mamba would be used. If we had a simlare battle grpund as to the area arround lake chad the hornet and geeko would only be used if at all in attacks on rebel bases from a unexpected direction Not for patrols.

LTGEN:
This type of vehicle plus the beloved S'African Gecko would not do very well in the Lake Chad regions bordering Chad /Niger/Nigeria.It also would be in serious trouble in the No Man's land between Kenya and Somalia
It is too exposed and can't take one RPG or a buried IED
I may hurt some feelings but it is no better than the thin skinned Toyota Hiluxes . They are essentially H.M.V.

It would not be used there. It for rapid response not patrols. It is exposed because the primary weapon on them is the infantry they carry and they need to dismount fast. Even so they proofed very resilient in CAR.


The Geeko is not for combat. It is for logistcal support. It means the paratroopers that deployed by air can move there stuff around. Put it this way would you rather carry a 12.7mm machin gun and all the ammo from the DZ to the front line or use the geeko. The Geeko is like the jeep from WW2.


All ways use the correct tool for the correct job.

Botswana


https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bmpd/38024980/3110629/3110629_original.jpg


[img]http://www.botswanaguardian.co.bw/media/k2/items/cache/d9c04c348d4cb5b77ddbf7c19110525b_XL.jpg[/img]

Air force


[img]http://media.defense.gov/2013/Sep/19/2000712144/400/400/0/070812-A-YG824-009.JPG[/img]


[img]https://www.army.mil/e2/c/images/2012/08/07/259196/size0.jpg[/img]


training with USA

africaken254:
the colombia air force Bell 212/ UH-1 are mounted with GAU-19B .50Caliber (12.7mm) Gatling Gun

South Africa used the GA1 20mm cannon from allouet 3's

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3624.html

Currently in serves with the special forces and police task force

Here it is in the ground role with Police task force

[img]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdcSqcIXfQbDhk9q6L5YBeVezr3MMFEZ09Pu7h3ahJGeMSgP3_pQ[/img]

ViceAdmiral:
Doesn't ZW constitution have a clear succession plan?

Does that matter when people there want the throne. Sure after he dies Zim wont just implode but it wont take long and no one knows who the Army will support or even if the army will be a united force. That's the real fear. If the Army is united then Zim will be stable but it up in the air. Personally I think the Army does not even know who it will support

What the plan for when Mugby dies. I mean who does the army support. I can see Zimbabwe becoming a Libya when he dies.

Henry24o:
However, won't the 20mm be too large to mount on the door of the AW109? In my opinion, a door mounted M2 browning is enough.


So for a fleet of 16 Helicopters, 10 can have a door mounted M2 browning.


There are limitations to using light aircrafts, basically trainers for COIN. Especially when you have an entrenched enemy, unlike in Tunisia were the terrorist threat is light.

A mix of 4 generation and light attack jets such as trainers is appropriate. So, jets would be picked according to the importance of the operation.

South Africa makes 2 20mms that would fit. Ine is about tge weight of a 12.7mm the other is new and only 13kgs or about the weight of a mg42 GPMG

Henry24o:
Andrewza, Nigerian Air Force Agusta Helos are usually armed with a "Ma Deuce". I agree they need Forward Looking Infrared Cameras.

The 12.7 is a good gun. Just thinking haveing a 20mm would be nice to. Not all of them (20mm ammo cost a lot) but say out 16 strong squdron 4 with a 20mm, 6 with 12.7mm and 6 with nothing. Just a idea there current use is all ready good. A giid sighn for SAAF since it means if we end up in a conflict we can use our A109s in the same role



https://warisboring.com/tunisia-waged-a-successful-air-war-against-militants-and-no-one-noticed-bbf1a73ff39a#.mwbqfwsu3


Thats are artical on the Tunsian war against islamic extremists that they fought and won with out any major news and only limited out side help. Well done to our northern brothers. And a good point is made that in a COIN operation the more advanced air craft is not needed. A simple reliabil machine with a good turn arround is needed.

rugged7:
NAF COMMENCES AERIAL PATROL OF ABUJA-KADUNA HIGHWAY AND ENVIRONS
The Nigerian Air Force today commences aerial patrol of the Abuja-Kaduna Highway, including Minna and environs. The joint patrol, incorporating surface elements from the Nigerian Army, Police and Federal Road Safety Commission, is aimed at checkmating criminal activities along major highways within the North West which of recent has witnessed increased cases of criminalities such as cattle rustling, kidnapping and armed robbery. Other major routes covered by the aerial patrol include the Abuja metropolis, Kaduna-Birnin Gwari road, Kaduna-Zaria-Kano road and the Falgore Forest. Aside undertaking aerial surveillance, the NAF is also providing ground troops that would operate alongside the surface elements.
Flagging-off the aerial patrol today in Abuja, the Air Officer Commanding Training Kaduna, Air Vice Marshal Nurudeen Balogun said that “the NAF will be providing real time intelligence from the air, and reinforcement where necessary, to aid the operation of the surface elements”.

Looks like NAF is doing a fire force type thing. Switching Allouet K and G cars for A109s. A good investment would be a FLIR system for the A109s and a light weight 20mm (sa has 2 opstions for sale now) to boost these guys.


Are the reinforments menstioned NAF or Army?

patches689:
video from Ex Ndlovu


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32JJu0EzY8g

Skip forward to the interveiw with the Cpt - he dispels criticisms that certain forum members have of our exercises by describing the days activities

- Escorts a convoy of supply vehicles
- Defends against an ambush
- Proceeds down the road
- Encounters a roadblock held by OPFOR
- Attempts negotiations
- Firefight ensues
- Fights through it
- Proceeds down the road
- Encounters OPFOR platoon
- Defends LOG convoy and launches company attack against the OPFOR Platoon
- End result: 2 wounded for BLUFOR (feild extraction by helo, flown to feild Hospital), 20+ K.I.A, W.I.A for OPFOR

Entire simulation run using MILES combat simulation equipment, meaning that the "casualties" suffered are as realistic as would happen in actual combat.

This kind of training is extremely relevant to C.O.I.N as well as L.I.C.W

Opfor was 20WIA and 5KIA

africaken254:
off topic :i love countries that proudly like to showcase their military prowess,not once in a blue moon like most of us

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkuKaPO0glY

You mean Murica. I just want more embeded journalists for SANDF. In deployments and training exercises.

Henry240:
We have enough of those. Haven't you been following the thread?

no, normally I leave when people start getting all stupid.

[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/world_armies/5721514362/[/img]


It shows all the stances and grenade launchers. Nigeria should buy them for your guys fighting BH

[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/world_armies/4238337641/in/album-72157623000005155/[/img]

Amani II random pics


https://www.peaceau.org/uploads/ctq1qidwiaeoaqg.jpg-large.jpg


https://www.peaceau.org/uploads/ctq2lllukaa-fup.jpg-large.jpg

https://www.peaceau.org/uploads/cttfshhveaan2xp.jpg-large.jpg

https://www.peaceau.org/uploads/cttsizauyaaku0s.jpg-large.jpg

2011 Libya

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/FNX4ND/epa02759815-south-african-army-soldiers-l-drive-from-matiga-military-FNX4ND.jpg

These are actually pretty old 2010 if I am not mistaken

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/FNXB9Y/soldiers-from-the-south-african-army-patrol-inside-a-shopping-center-FNXB9Y.jpg

https://l7.alamy.com/zooms/b419b107e1f643e9af3cc0b54d323e3d/soldiers-from-the-south-african-army-patrol-inside-a-shopping-center-fnxbb5.jpg

https://l7.alamy.com/zooms/3cd58f45ed9e40d5b4cef875464eaa96/soldiers-from-the-south-african-army-patrol-inside-a-shopping-center-fnxbc0.jpg

https://l7.alamy.com/zooms/a2e24453d46744c08fa9c0f27a0c22c4/soldiers-from-the-south-african-army-patrol-inside-a-shopping-center-fnxbd2.jpg

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/sa_army_capability_demonstration_2016_143/sa_army_capability_demonstration_28_20160520_1875014276.jpg

grenade launcher

https://www.defenceweb.co.za/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/sa_army_capability_demonstration_2016_143/sa_army_capability_demonstration_2_20160520_1546109208.jpg

the work horse

more red lion. this time MRS

https://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/aerodean/Ex%20Red%20Lion%202016/_MG_7346.jpg

https://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/aerodean/Ex%20Red%20Lion%202016/_MG_7350.jpg

https://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/aerodean/Ex%20Red%20Lion%202016/_MG_7367.jpg

https://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1608/160812_Red_Lion_Sea_Phase/gallery/IMG_9494.JPG

https://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/aerodean/Ex%20Red%20Lion%202016/_MG_7407.jpg

https://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1608/160812_Red_Lion_Sea_Phase/gallery/IMG_9501.JPG

https://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1608/160812_Red_Lion_Sea_Phase/gallery/IMG_4989.JPG

https://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1608/160812_Red_Lion_Sea_Phase/gallery/IMG_4019.JPG

https://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1608/160812_Red_Lion_Sea_Phase/gallery/IMG_4243.JPG

https://www.navy.mil.za/archive/1608/160812_Red_Lion_Sea_Phase/gallery/IMG_4736.JPG

These are from red lion all are from on board SAS UMHLOTI

jakeporeshenko:
The guy who shared didn't mention, But I can ask.

Pictures taken today from NAF anual 10km walk in bayelsa.

great pics.
Why the riot armour?

Henry240:
To be honest, i don't know why we are addicted to middlemen dealings. It seems like a sickening disease.

When the government first came into power, we all had this euphoria that all dealings would be , i don't quite understand this U-turn.

means, we get access to loans and in-turn more equipment, whereas with middlemen we have to pay cash.

Why would we want to buy MI-35M helicopters from a 3rd party instead of the Russians themselves? The logic is bewildering. Since the Minister of Defence came back from Russia, no word, nothing heard again.

At when you buy from us you get it straight from the manufactory who even throws in a production rights to sweeten the deal

chinese8107:
Yes they may bought from EU country,probably second hand gun is cheaper or they simply don't need AHEAD.They would choose 40 or 57mm gun and munition instead.

Actually the bought the chinness copy of the GDF 35 just the basic model.