₦airaland Forum

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=313573.msg4408283#msg4408283 date=1251070513]What Isale Eko local government generate in revenue is more than all the Eastern states put together.
Oil money in Lagos? Lagos the commercial nerve centre of Africa?
Are u educated at all?[/quote]
. . .Far from reality.

oyinda: either way lagos loses out. plus evicting the poorer people won't stop more poor people from coming into the state. it's called equilibrium. most cities always have their fair share of poor people. especially ones in africa.
evicting them will cause more to come in, and also cause others to hate the state, the cost for evicting this people isn't free either. so what has lagos gained in the process?

You are right, but the truth is Nigerians habor a lot of hatred for each other. All of this is just adding to an already tense situation.

My "spanner in the works" is, what happens to beggers who are from Lagos? I wonder if Fashola is going to jail them.

@Oyinda

Nobody will deport criminals and beggers to Lagos. Its all going to be machiavellian. The few things that will be visible will be; the North carrying out revenge through party politics and big shots from Lagos losing out nationally; all sorts of screws being turned to cut Fashola down to size by those in power.

There are also only going to be a few strong words from a weak FG.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=313573.msg4408138#msg4408138 date=1251068902]. . . .Hausa beggars should move on or get SHOT.[/quote]

Abi Fashola has joined MEND?  
Lagos don declare war sha.

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=313573.msg4408062#msg4408062 date=1251067928]Why should he deport Yoruba beggars in Lagos?
How do you prove they are not natives of Lagos State?[/quote]You couldn't have illustrated it better (although that wasn't your intention).
This is exactly how some would see the black and white of this action:

Yoruba beggars = Lagosians
Northern beggars not = Lagosians

People keep saying it was an eviction not deportation. Well eviction means you simply throw the folk out on the streets, on the other hand deportation means you transport the miscreants to their place of origin.

We have witnessed the first internal deportation in Nigeria.

All this is happening at a time the North feels under siege. Someone has done an expedient and populist calculation without properly weighing the costs.
On the other hand; if the costs have been weighed, I doubt this nation can even reach 2011 at this rate. We are already deporting "non-nationals". Na wa!

Words fail me! Do we hate each other this much?  
Is Lagos planning to secede? Is Lagos ready for the dish they are preparing?

The SW is the only area in the South that believes strongly in one Nigeria, so what's going on?
There are going to be serious repercussions; I have always said we need to define our co-existence with a national conference as a matter of urgency.

In just a few years, we have had violent shocks to the polity. First there was Sharia, then Boko Haram, now internal deportation; all of these added to the unrest in the Niger Delta and wretched governance.

We are at the edge of an abyss. Lets not slip in. Let us avoid cataclism.

hollandis:
I have seen Hausas every where -Nairaland,senate,china,korea,Naija,Cotedivoire,ghana,S.A,UK,the list is endless
THEY ARE VENDORS OF IGNORANCE

Are you referring to the OP or to Hausa's in general? Either way, your position is misguided and doesn't address whether Sanusi is rash or not.

Wasn't it the strategy to bomb seven devils out of Gbaramatu. . . Just in case Tompolo was there? The facts are on the ground.

As for the figures, they are everywhere. Those are the figures all NGO's use and they are conservative, Nigeria is not doing its name any good with its indiscriminate use of ordinance against populations it claims to be Nigerian. For those affected, it is as clear as day. Like I said, both the govt and army see some of the population as less than maggots that can be slaughtered in disgusting ways. Do you deny that?

If some of this behaviour is due to military training, it really needs looking into.

I have said it from the very beginning that the whole approach was wrong. Handling the financial sector in this new age of "investor confidence" is a job for people who are cool headed diplomats that can see issues through several facets. This Sanusi guy is a bull in a China shop. My first suspicion that Sanusi is totally out of wack with the job came with the reckless and hurried nature in which he carried out his actions. First it was via a resurrected military decree (in the nations financial system!); secondly, it was carried out on a Friday (rather than Monday, giving more lattitude to guide a fast moving scenario with stocks, Naira value and confidence). Third and by far the worst, Sanusi brought govt interference into the private sector (not just any sector, but banking). All three mistakes combined were always going uncontrollable ripples through, both the banking and general business environments.

It all looks so stupid now. The Naira fell 2% in a single day and shares in all affected banks had to be suspended ortherwise they wouldn't be worth a miserable Kobo now. Sanusi has single handedly destroyed the gains in the banking and financial systems. Whether things will recover is yet to be seen. No bank is going to undertake any business that is remotely risky now and that includes seed money for promising startups or loans without collateral to those deserving. It is stone age and barbaric.

I really do wonder if Sanusi was given a brief to destroy the banking environment and its foremost banks for some shady motive(s).

davidif has very solid points. However I disagree with any comparison of our local instituitions to foreign ones, as if we are 2nd class and must perpertually look up to them. Aside from that davidif is 100% correct.
There are people in Nigeria that both the govt and army see as less than maggots, so they are killed off like flies in massacre after massacre. You have to assume something is wrong when a countries soldiers slaughters some of "its people" the way even animals are not slaughtered. Consider the most recent massacre in Gbaramatu; the army were looking for Tompolo and decided that the best way to find him was to carpet bomb the places he was suspected to be in. So whole villages were levelled, and that is searching? Something is dreadfully wrong.
The trouble in the Niger Delta would not be so bad if not for the actions of the army; they and the police have taken 50,000 plus lives (before Gbaramatu) and wiped out 20+ villages. The army behaves quite like civilians are from another country; is the phrase "bloody civilian" still in use? That single phrase tells the whole story of relations between the army and the populace.
If the sort of training in these pictures is the cause of such aborminable behaviour, then it desperately needs changing. Nigeria has run the gamut of what brutal force can achieve and is now tearing itself apart.

There is a frantic search for oil in the North right now, but nothing has been found to date. Prospecting has been started and cancelled, only to be restarted, so far its been a desperate endless circle.

There is some oil in Benue state, but Benue state is not in the North.

bawomolo:
can u at least move the biafra threads to the culture section. they are overwhelming the politics section.

JamesG:
Separatist proponents – this way those of us who love this country dearly won’t be subjected to vile comments.

Wow! Politics is not romance. It requires a strong stomach and needs to be all inclusive. Have you considered that this attitude in the real World is the very thing that drives others to want separation?

How can we "love the country so dearly", but want to banish comments of the dissatisfied to outer Siberia? Proponents of Biafra and separation are part of Nigeria too; thats the real World.

The only suggestion that can work is chronological grouping.

The politics section is fine as it is, splitting it up is a bad idea. Politics by nature is highly interconnected; this is especially the case in Nigeria, because of the unitary system under which the country is run.
Splitting by state, federal or local politics would only create topics that are orphaned from their essence (relationship to the center). The end result would be a disconnected spaghetti without vibrance. Bad move.

JamesG comes up with the idea that the Ibru's are somehow scum who run a monopoly. Those who know better have slapped him down on both counts, so tail between legs; the next straw to grab at is "oh she's just a wife anyway!". That is really low and pathetic.

When people steal money and are loud, we hail and patronise them to high heavens. But when we come across unassuming people who have made their billions by sheer graft and determination, we call them names. What a pity! And next we put all the blame for the sad state of the country on Yar Adua.

Onlytruth:
It is obvious the writer is also trying to scare people (though he made some true observations). The biggest exaggeration he made is to assume that the Igbo will stand by and absorb being "ethnically cleansed" together with the minorities of the East. Even Igbos in the north won't move down south this time. So let that be understood. As for the relation between Igbos and middle belt (especially Benue) there is a possibility of a rapport or accord to join in a new nation. I don't see why not.
The final truth is that this frightful scenario is very possible in Nigeria (since we can't even conduct a simple election peacefully). So no one should think this is far fetched. The only thing that could prevent a senseless bloodbath is that the usual prey (Igbo and deltans) is armed enough to make the usual aggressors think twice before embarking on any funny moves. It is possible for the whole south to team up against the north, but the Yoruba remains the weak link. I see them teaming up with the north again (out of fear) to want to force their will on the East (unless if discouraged by armed Easterners in Lagos). Anyway you look at it, the only thing that will prevent a bloodbath is enough deterrence from the East.

Yes, the Yoruba's believe in one Nigeria, but there might be a possible miscalculation with the likes of Fashola here. He has made good noises toward a Sovereign National Conference and resource control, the question is how far Lagos will push.

Kobojunkie:
Again, if what you term REVOLUTION is some violent attack of the system, then we are definitely not on the same page here. Sure, Boko Haram were in some way fighting a revolution of their own. They chose to BREAK THE LAW in getting their goal and also choose to Push to IMPOSE their ideas on he people. If you do not see the difference between that and what I have been saying so far, then may I suggest you ask me what exactly I am speaking of here. REVOLUTIONS do not have to include GUNS, RIOTS, and VIOLENCE. There have been so many SILENT REVOLUTIONS recorded in history.

All revolutions break the law. Infact, they overturn it to create new realities. A "silent revolution" is nonsense.

"A revolution (from the Latin revolutio, "a turn around" is a fundamental change in power or organizational structures that takes place in a relatively short period of time. Aristotle described two types of political revolution:

Complete change from one constitution to another
Modification of an existing constitution.[1]
Revolutions have occurred through human history and vary widely in terms of methods, duration, and motivating ideology. Their results include major changes in culture, economy, and socio-political institutions"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution

The article is a good one in the way it considers the whole country, although there are one or two glaring gaps. The writer is from the North and is totally unbiased in his analysis.
The situation of the North breaking down into ever more tightening spiral of religious turmoil is all too real, as deprivation of education and poverty have very unforetunately been used as tools of control by the Northern elite. However, the important analysis of the part that will be played by the Northern controlled army is missing (there is just the suggestion of a collapse); will there be splits between Hausa-Fulani and the largely Christian Middle Belt? This could be along current simmering seams of tension or along religious lines or land usage lines(as in Jos).

I don't see the Yoruba's getting involved in the Niger Delta to save Ilaje or Itsekiri's, if these groups haven't been treated badly up to now they aren't likely to be treated badly in the future; also, Yoruba land is the most unready in the South for a split and will be caught up in other issues.
As Ibime noted, the Ijaw are the original settlers who gave incoming migrants land to settle on, the problem in Warri was due to one group not recognising this. The battle in Warri was always Itsekiri against Urhobo and Itsekiri against Ijaw; even that has been largely healed, the governor of Delta state is Itsekiri (you wouldn't expect that if they were being maltreated by the Urhobo's and Ijaws).

It also goes without saying that relations with the Igbo (and ocean access) should not be a major issue, but these things need speaking about now. However, what will be the relations between the Igbo and Middle Belt?

One other question concerning the Niger Delta, will those from the Muslim parts of Northern Edo prefer to go with the Middle Belt or would they join the ND?

I came across this spine chilling article on Nigerian Village Square.

If Naija Scatter (Part 1)     
Written by Nafata Bagamuje   
Tuesday, 04 August 2009

IF NAIJA SCATTER (1)

In recent times, two major violent centrifugal forces have emerged to threaten the continued existence of Nigeria as one nation, namely Islamic supremacists in the North and Ijaw insurrectionists in the Niger Delta. As will be shown in this write-up both of these regions – core North and Niger Delta - will also suffer the worst if Nigeria unravels.

Niger Delta

The so-called Niger Delta militancy is largely an Ijaw affair as there are very few if any Ikwerres, Ogonis, Itsekiris or other non-Ijaw Niger Deltans in MEND, NDPVF, Egbesu and other such insurrectionists. In other words, non-Ijaw Niger Deltans are for the most part not interested in the Niger Delta republic Ijaw separatists are fighting for, as the non-Ijaws are also wary of Ijaw aggression and hegemony.
In the unlikely event Nigeria disintegrates, all hell will break loose in the Niger Delta as the non-Ijaws will take up arms to challenge Ijaw hegemony. Rival ethnic militias will tear at each other and the region will become embroiled in a protracted civil war. This is not at all farfetched scare-mongering; just a few years ago Itsekiris, Ijaws and Urhobos were killing each other in Warri because of ordinary local government headquarter.

One doesn’t need to be a soothsayer to predict the massive conflagration that would ensue if the various Niger Delta ethnicities no longer have we “parasitic Northerners” as their common enemy and oil wells (not local government HQs) are at stake.

Already Ijaws have had scuffles and territorial disputes with several of the non-Ijaw Niger Delta ethnic groups among whom Ijaws settle; from Ilajes in Ondo state to Ibibios in Akwa Ibom state where they are supposed to be a negligible minority. Several years ago, Ijaws even went as far as Lagos to battle OPC. So the recent Atlas cove attack was by no means the first Ijaw aggression in Lagos.

A minority group (Ijaw) having the temerity to challenge a majority group (Yoruba) on the majority’s own turf. One cannot help but shudder at the tragedy that awaits non-Ijaw Niger Deltans if Nigeria implodes.

Then there is the Biafra / Igbo factor. The oil-rich riverine Igbos (Obigbo, Etche, Ikwerre etc) who produce much of Rivers state’s on-shore crude, are unlikely to join the prospective Ijaw dominated Niger Delta republic. They will most likely join the inland and Anioma Igbos to form Biafra.

If they don’t join voluntarily, Biafrans will still endeavour to exercise sovereignty over them not just because they are ethno-linguistically Igbos - despite some of their politically convenient denials – but more importantly because the riverine Igbos provide vital access to the sea which Biafra will desperately need. Quite probably the Biafrans will battle the Ijaw dominated Niger Delta republic for control of River’s oil wells and unfettered access to the Atlantic ocean.

Yorubas will also be drawn into the Niger Delta fray to secure their Ilaje and possibly Itsekiri cousins from Ijaw hegemony. Following the recent Atlas cove attack, several Yoruba groups (OPC, YCE etc) have already read the riot act to Ijaw insurgents to desist from aggression in Yoruba-land. So one can be sure, Yorubas will not leave Ilajes to the mercy of Ijaw expansionism.

Arewa

Up here in the North, Islamists who are barely restrained by the need to continue to enjoy oil wealth from the non-Muslim South, will feel free to pursue their Jihadist agenda for totalitarian Islamization. With the collapse of the failed Nigerian state and its security agencies (Police, Army), extremist groups like the recently demolished Boko Haram will proliferate, as post-Nigeria Arewa degenerates into an Islamist anarchy.

Again this isn’t farfetched scare-mongering. Just over a year ago our gallant soldiers crushed another Boko-Haram type Islamist insurgency in the Panshekara / Challawa area of Kano. A few months ago, there were news and police reports of an Islamic terrorist training camp somewhere around Zaria.

Millions of northern Muslims already share Boko Haram’s abhorrence of Western education, which is why they only send their children to Quranic schools (Tsangiya) that breed hundreds of thousands of potential Islamist recruits. Notice how support for Boko Haram initially snowballed among some disgruntled malcontents, before the recent massive security crackdown.

Moderate Northern Muslims will attempt to battle such extremism, but they will fail. For one thing most of the educated “moderate” Muslims do not have the same stomach for violence as the martyrdom-seeking Islamists who look forward to screwing 72 virgins in Al-Jannah – Islamic heaven.

For another thing, the excruciating economic hardship and accompanying social discontent in post-Nigeria Arewa occasioned sudden cessation of oil revenues from the South and skyrocketing cost of petroleum products from the same hostile South, will push millions of ill-educated, Islamo-brainwashed, easily manipulated pauperized Talakawa into the hands of Islamic extremists…a la Karl Marx’s opium for suffering masses.

After all Sharia is the cure-all social panacea even for massive retrenchment and markedly increased taxes that will inevitably follow as post-Nigeria northern government(s) drastically prunes expenditure and endeavour to make up for lost oil revenue. The increased support for extremists by the impoverished masses will bolster Islamist militancy.

By denouncing secular education as abomination (haram), Boko Haram automatically condemned educated northern elites as apostates (Takfir), who according to Islam should be killed. Thus in the Islamist anarchy of post-Nigeria Arewa, nemesis will catch up with many of the so-called Northern leaders who failed to enforce compulsory secular education that could have emancipated and empowered our people against Boko Haram extremism.

As in other Islamist anarchies (Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq), foreign Jihadists will also be drawn into the fray. And I’m not referring to the usual amateur mercenary Jihadis from Chad and Niger; but Al-Qaeda type, Pakistani trained professionals. After all Bin Laden has severally mentioned Nigeria as ripe for Islamic revolution. Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) has already spilled over from Algeria into neigbouring Mali from where they could easily crossover to a fractured Arewa.

Since Al-Qaeda is a global Islamist syndicate for Caliphal world domination, their activities won’t be restricted to the North. They will most likely foray into the parts of the South with large Muslim populations – notably northern Edo and Yoruba-land.

In addition, the major Islamist powers - Saudi Arabia and Iran - will both try to gain a foothold in Black Africa’s largest Muslim population by supporting rival Islamist factions.

Christians in the core North states with large population of indigenous non-Muslims (e.g Borno, Gombe & Bauchi) will organize their own militias to fend off Islamists. Add to this combustible mix of Islamist militancy and Christian militias, violent eruption of long simmering animosities between Hausa-Fulanis and Middle belt minorities; the result would be a catastrophe of Armageddon proportions that will make Somalia look like child’s play.

If the incessant religious violence in the North within the last two decades is anything to go by, we can also expect a 1966-type bloodbath of Easterners. But this time not only Igbos and Eastern minorities will be ethnically cleansed, but all southerners and even Middle belters in the core North. This will certainly be followed by massive retaliations down South.

These are just some of the ugly scenarios that await us if we are unable to make Nigeria work. The prospects are quite dire as a peaceful Soviet Union-type break-up is unlikely. On the contrary a Yugoslavia-type of violent disintegration is much more probable with Nigeria splintering up to a dozen parts. Old and subliminal ethno-religious animosities will violently erupt as our disparate ethnic pseudo-nationalities battle each other in a fratricidal scramble for territory and resources.

Nafata Bamaguje

Daura, Katsina state

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/nafata-bamaguje/if-naija-scatter-part-1.html

I'm suprised the idiot Thor is still masturbating his weird ego.
They really say damaged goods are damaged goods.

somubz:
Yes corn beaf I forgot 2 ask, is that your lovely brother? he's seriously handsome I suggest you
register him for Mr. world, talk now abi you get traffic on the way coming online?

Wetin be "corn beaf"? Abi you no go skool? You tink say beaf=beef?

No be here you de stay sef?
21,Ayanbadejo strt sabo Ikorodu,Lagos.Nigeria.

Your mates done de run go Isreal wit fishing hook for the 1 milla, you still de here de yarn.

No worry! I go post de mami wata come give you. Yeye Ikorodu champion.
You go marry am, love am, give am bele!

This is the mirayyycle fueless car! Yeah baby!
It is only meant for members of the millionaires club. Don't look if you're not "blessed".

@Jacumo
Can you put the goat in it?

There were stories that some Boko Haram were arrested in Ogun state a couple of days ago. These people had crude weapons, but are reported to have had bomb making equipment and materials. Who knows what can happen next?

afam4eva:
When will nigerians stop seeing the military as the only reason for the stinking state of nigeria.

It's over 9 years after military rule and we are still placing all the blame on the military. Apart from the fact that the military regime was totalitarian, authoritarian i'll say that the military performed better than the present crop of cabals that call themselves democratically elected officials.

It can take generations to erase the effects of a traumatic experience; military rule was very traumatic. For example, Nigerians are very aggressive because they've been beaten up by those in power, seen their parents and other loved ones beaten up by those in power. They have grown up used to being called "bloody civilians". They have learnt that in Nigeria's setting, the winner is the one that can put up the most convincing show of force (not logic or intelligence). Bad habits are difficult to drop and trauma is difficult to get over without the right councelling.

A true revolution anywhere cannot be peaceful. By true revolution, I mean the complete uprooting and overturning of the status quo; who the powers are, how the economy runs, how regions integrate, refocusing of the media and other instituitions for positive propaganda and localisation of solutions etc. In Nigeria's case, it would involve changing the countries name, changing our state language from English to either pidgin or the language of the smallest ethnic group.
All the above will immediately catapult the country from disgrace to prominence, similar to the way China has risen with speed out of hunger, annual droughts and pernury to become the most powerful economy today.

. . .But how can these things be achieved peacefully? It is impossible. There will be stout resistance from the powers that be, they will send out assassins, the police and the army, jails will be packed. How do you resist such things peacefully?

you complicate your situation if you experience internal alcoholic drought

I hail!

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=306392.msg4377370#msg4377370 date=1250631727]Wrong information. . . . . .Indonesia takes the cake.

In 1998, the people of Indonesia rose against Suharto and he had to retire as the President.
Ethnic diversity has nothing to do with revolution. . . .Of course, people will die but Nigerians should not think about themselves. They should think about the future of the coming generation. After all, people die everyday from the strife, famine and the abject poverty in Nigeria.
We should copy Indonesia, force these criminals we call Politicians out of the office and start all over again.[/quote]Wrong. Javanese comprise 42% of their population, the next biggest groups are Sundanese 14%, Madurese 7.5% and Malays 7.5%. Naturally the Javanese run things and no othnic group is big enough to challenge them.
Anyway what about their war in Aceh?

Compare with Nigeria; Hausa ~20%, Igbo ~20%, Yoruba ~20%

Ikengawo:
that's not true.

if the European union becomes a single nation, it will be the richest in the world, and yet VERY diverse.

if this was true then explain Somalia and Japan.

Singularity in ethnicity doesn't determine development, its how its handled.

One thing, European Union is not even a tenth as diverse as Nigeria.
Can you point out any developed country that has several diverse indegenious ethnicities?

It has been proven without doubt that ethnic diversity causes under-development, poverty and strife. You can find an example academic paper here http://www.econ.upf.edu/~reynal/jde_marta_jose.pdf

babapupa:
What difference does it make? At least they are doing something to help/They came up with something.

Wetin you come up with? Negativity? That's all you have to offer.

Obviously, your negativity no go help a single malnourished child  but the scientific outcome will, so the joke is really on you.

you guys are hypocrites, you drink from the same well with clueless naija leaders, you don't support your own people.

I never believed I'd agree with you. Don't mind them na soso mouth.
This thing is an incredible step, the only things that might hamper it are, cost, ease of production and perishability.

Am still waiting for you "there" sha