₦airaland Forum

una don win.

oh boi i no argue again oh - Westminster confession or no west minster confession.

I did not have chance to reply this earlier. Please see my responses below:

@BigBashiru:

The Bible speaks of pre-destination! But look at the larger picture and consider language differences and speech inflections[b][/b]!

Look at this statement - I get up every morning! This implies I will "stand" up every morning! YET that is wrong because what it really means is to "wake up"!

You are assuming (and I have fallen into the exact same trap and questioned the same as you) that God wants some to go to hell when what He is saying is that the door to both heaven and hell are open but the choice is yours just as you could wake and decide not to stand up!

Here's a parallel - using my example, you'll find that usually, people who are "fine" (good health = righteous\forgiven) will wake and stand up (go to heaven) whist the sick (sinful etc) will wake (death) but not stand up (continue to the right destination)!

The choice is not waking but what you do after but that usually is based on what you did prior to even that sleep!

Again you blaspheme the Holy Ghost by insinuating the interpreters of the Bible may have made mistakes! If there is any one verse that simply says you have no control, it is simple; God said:
"NO MAN can come to the Father UNLESS the Father draw him" - why are you arguing with Bible- please dont hide behind Hebrew and Greek translations as that would mean you are implying God cannot inspire people to make 100% accurate translation of the Bible which is blasphemy.

Now onto a more interesting point; when Paul went about preaching, God to him I HAVE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS CITY meaning God had ONLY particular people in mind:

9 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent. 10 For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city.” 11 So Paul stayed in Corinth for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

For people quoting me John 3:16, it is clear here that God said I have many people in this city NOT EVERYONE IN THIS CITY WERE GODS PEOPLE to be; so we see here that of course Paul must preach to ALL; however only those the Father draws accept and receive not of their own volition; those who accept accept because they have been so ordained that is why it said in Acts or so: AS MANY AS WERE APPOINTED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED If a man will to be saved, he so wills because had ordained him to so will. Anybody arguing with this is calling God a lier; for you to come, God must draw you as stated in scriptutre. period.
12 While Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews of Corinth made a united attack on Paul and brought him to the place of judgment. 13 “This man,” they charged, “is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law.”

14 Just as Paul was about to speak, Gallio said to them, “If you Jews were making a complaint about some misdemeanor or serious crime, it would be reasonable for me to listen to you. 15 But since it involves questions about words and names and your own law—settle the matter yourselves. I will not be a judge of such things.” 16 So he drove them off. 17 Then the crowd there turned on Sosthenes the synagogue leader and beat him in front of the proconsul; and Gallio showed no concern whatever.
Priscilla, Aquila and Apollos

18 Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sisters and sailed for Syria, accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila. Before he sailed, he had his hair cut off at Cenchreae because of a vow he had taken.
Remember earlier God told him to continue preaching that he had much people there; Paul stayed there for one and half years; once all the ordained had been saved not of their own freewill, Paul left to another city to again preach that the elect may be saved. Note when Paul was now leaving this particular city, he calls them "brothers and sisters" which were the newly saved. The rest were not referred to as such.

If you are a Bible scholar, you know there is rhema, so let us confirm this with another verse:

"And AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED" (no more no less).
English is not the problem here or traslations; it is inability to come to terms with what is precisely written.

This story is hard to believe; of the things he was going to steal, it wont reach $10,000 and he cant fit all that stuff into a car; also how will he know exactly where the high value stuff are? finally it is too much of a coincidence for him to have been spotted upon entry; this would mean the house owners are monitoring their houses 24/7.

Why do you care if God and Satan work together - is it ur business?

God and Satan are their quietly minding their business and una de find their trouble for forum. nuff said.

jobs

This is a masonic temple, clearly formed after the temple of Solomon in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Anybody know about it?

obadiah777: MEANING YOU ARE GETTING REFINED AND PURIFIED IN THE FURNACE OF AFFLICTION

This is the beginning of lunacy and brainwashing. Go and start afflicting yourself now so we will know you are the real Christians, you can even burn yourself with a stove so you are properly refined in the furnace of affliction. Or have your legs amputated because the affliction will "bring you nearer to God" lol.

Look how much time all of you are wasting just because of the female vulllva!

Let me first direct you to the excellent thread by mazaje: "There is no freewill in the Bible so enough of the lies"
www.nairaland.com/254595/there-no-free-bible-enough

I am presenting Bible truths below that atonement is limited, that freewill does not exist in the Bible and that the number of men who will receive salvation are many but those who will get to heaven are even fewer (the remnant of the seed of the woman). The final great truth is that anybody not ordained to life is cursed to hell and there is nothing they can do about it:


Eph 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her[color=#990000][/color]
Who did Christ die for? the church and the church only! The church members are saved whether they like it or not. Does not the Bible call Christ the husband of the church or bride cant remember exactly.

Eph 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
OF WHICH HE IS SAVIOR - it is limited. Only such as should be saved are saved!

Eph 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
OF WHICH HE IS SAVIOR - it is limited. Only such as should be saved are saved!

John 3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only son....

How do we reconcile these two verses? The answer is in LIMITED ATONEMENT. Yes Christ died for the whole world but the death is effectual to the elect (the remnant of the seed of the woman). This means that the preordained unsaved will go to hell and some Christians also who are not the remnant of the seed of the woman will likewise go to hell(the parable of the sower) and:

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev. 12:17)

So yes Christ died for all mankind but that death is only effectual for the elect (remnant of the seed of the woman). The rest are cursed to everlasting punishment and they cant do anything about it for it was ordained!

Let me just conclude with this just one verse as if the one I gave was not enough:

Eph 5:25
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her[color=#990000][/color]
Who did Christ die for? the church! Does not the Bible call Christ the husband of the church or bride cant remember exactly.

Eph 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
OF WHICH HE IS SAVIOR - it is limited. Only such as should be saved are saved!

John 3: 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only son....

How do we reconcile these two verses? The answer is in LIMITED ATONEMENT. Yes Christ died for the whole world but the death is effectual to the elect (the remnant of the seed of the woman). This means that the preordained unsaved will go to hell and some Christians also who are not the remnant of the seed of the woman will likewise go to hell. So yes Christ died for all mankind but that death is only effectual for the elect (remnant of the seed of the woman). The rest are cursed to everlasting punishment and they cant do anything about it for it was ordained!

Image123: Hmmm, you're sullllllllking, pele. Oya, lemme help out.
It is very plainly shown in the bible that the human being has a part to play in his/her salvation.

Image123, you are almost blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Be careful! Check all the passages quoted here, the very word of God then tell me if you still think human still has a part to play. For the scriptures you have quoted,

1. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

To will is different than to ordain. Yes God is not willing that any should perish but to demonstrate his glorious justice as clearly stated in Romans, it pleased him to ORDAIN some men to death before they had done anything good or bad. So just because he is not willing that any should perish does not mean that he still does not ordain some to perish. For even though he was unwilling that any should perish, he foreordained them to perish by leaving them to their own evil vices such that God is not the cause of their perishment yet he ordained them so. Read 1 Peter 3:8 then read the below.



NO ONE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS THE FATHER WHO HAS SENT ME DRAW HIM - does it sound like you have a part to play in this? If after you have read all the Bible passages below and still believe you have a part to play then I honestly think you may have been blinded by the devil!

Psa 139:16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

Job 14:5 You have decided the length of our lives. You know how many months we will live, and we are not given a minute longer.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--
Rom 9:12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger."
Rom 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (i wonder why some fools here mock allah because of this.)
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

Rom 11:2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began
2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

Anymore freewillers out there?

@mazaje
MAZAJEEE!!! So you are still on this forum nice! I miss your classic thread: 'There is no freewill in the Bible so enough of the lies"

I will revamp it.

Kenneth4u205: Am tired of pastors calling everything a sin.maybe the are too shy to walk up to a lady,hence the called it a sin.why should God give me big penis and expect me not to use it.it does'nt make sense.why should God put that urge and desire for female in me and then expect me not to respond to it.it does'nt make sense.why should God creat a woman in the first instant?.imaging the soft breast,hip,curves,lips etc.all this was created for my pleasure by God.so it is a sin to ignore the creations of God,hence a sin not to fornicate.so go out there and fornicate as much as possible!!!

The author makes sense - i posted similar threads in the past but they dont seem to get much attention. The notion of fornication is flawed but most bible believers are too afraid to confess it. I know a man who when he was in mating age, was doing 'born again', he had many eligible girls who were interested in him but he rejected all of them because he was born again. Now the guy is old as is not as attractive as he used to be so not much interest. Now he deeply regrets it.

God said be fruitful and multiply. Sexual attraction is a healthy feeling including wanting to have sex. Admiration of the opposite sex is equally natural. Desiring to get physical with one woman or multiple women is good in my opinion. Sleeping around is not such a good idea but you get the point - be free with your sexuality.

mbhs139: What's your point? You are speaking from both sides of your mouth. By the way, what has religion got to do with this?
you aren't quiet making sense. Could you be explicit

To be explicit:

1.) Nigeria is rapidly degenerating into a highly monitored police state if this comes into force - with Government having great power over citizens.
2.) Religion has everything to do with it because it is coming to pass. Logically, if you must have ID in lagos, and must have ID card to transact government business in lagos, have ID card as only acceptable means to identify yourself for core identification purposes such as commencing employment or travelling by road from Lagos to Abuja (this could easily be pushed through the issue of Boko Haram), then the card has too much power; which in turn means govt has too much power. If the card is less powerful and only serves one or two purposes I am happy with it. But if it will serve multiple purposes such as the aforementioned in future, then I am ariad it begins to line up with the Book of Revelation (call me lunatic but I am just making a point).

This is no joke lol.

Lagos set to start issuing IDs to citizens by Jan 2013:

http://news.naij.com/14103.html

anybody with an iota of common sense should be opposing this scheme speaking from a religious perspective.
I remember when I was a child, it was said that during those end times the benefits of the 'system' will be heavily touted and it will be easily sold to the citizens; I had predicted on this forum before that the government will use security and immigration as an excuse for such a callous scheme. And make no mistake, this so called mark of the beast system is this ID card system - for it is universal across the world.

The Government of Nigeria needed to start with the cashless Nigeria project to eliminate cash, NUBAN now this ID card. These are the works of Satan. As stated, you must have ID for govt services. Before you talk me down for being a conspiracy theorist, visit Nigerian Identity Management Commission website - they basically used all of the phone companies as data collection agents, will implement a NIN system (like a social security number) and then this ID card. The one on the NIMC website is designed to be payment enabled, not sure if this is being implemented on a state by state basis.

Again there is an agenda here, the plan is Federal ID system - Lagos is always used to start with.

In theory, Lagos ID card is a good idea and I welcome it - it is efficient. The problem and associated religious implications arise when you cant do anything meaningful without the card. If you combine a cashless or semi-cashless economy with an ID card that is payment enabled as shown on NIMC website - you lose privacy in your financial transactions as the govt can tell all your transactions, sales tax can be forced on you, if a dictactor gets into power in Nigeria, you can get arrested and imprisoned without cause.

The government can simply use tax IDs to identify people or plain old passport.

Image123

In other words, you've got next to no understanding of the very arguments you're making or else you're just being disingenuous. Have fun by yourself then.

Is an attack. Anyways, thanks for visiting.

The Nigerian Identity Management Commission has laid out plans for the NIN and Identity Card. This ID card will be made law for ID purposes due to Boko Haram and id theft resulting from cashless Nigeria. Without this ID card you cannot do anything in Nigeria. I have studied the policy document on NIMC website - guys the end is near!!!

Pope calls for World Political Authority and World Central Bank.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-benedict-calls-for-central-world-bank-only-he-didnt-heres-why/

Why is it that very useful threads dont garner much attention. This poster is spot on. Government control, cashless Nigeria and all. Its all quickly coming together.

Why are you attacking me? Please no getting personal, kindly click the back button on your browser unto another thread as i have not the time for this; your invitation to respond to the thread is now expired and you may please respond no further. Other respondents to this post, please feel free to respond.

1.) It started with the Nationalization of Banks. Mainstreet Bank as a choice of a name for a bank that is govt controlled is significant; it means in future it will be a major bank that is main street that almost everybody uses. This bank is 100% owned by AMCON and so as a government controlled banking the public, the government is already controlling you in that they can freeze your account at will. The cashless Nigeria policy is indeed another significant step.

2.) But what actually killed the antelope is the CONCLUDED introduction of Unique National Identification number (just like social security number) AND the National Identity Card that you must also have under the law after being assigned the NIN. I have attached the official NIN & ID cad policy doc in this posting. This ID card will be used as universal ID, everybodys data will be held in a centralized database (the phone companies have already acted as massive fingerprint, and personal data collection agents), this card is needed to do anything - to fly, get a bank account, get drivers license, interact with the govt, get health care and is to be also used to make payments.

3.) I personally believe the Govt has let this Boko Haram stuff persevere delibrately so that by the time the ID card is unleashed, people will fearfully accept.

This is time to be prayerful. This is time to watch!

Ihedinobi

You are not obliged to respond further if you dont want to.

To any other readers what I need is for people to support their arguments with Bible verses as I have done. I quoted specific Bible verses showing how the Bible verses I have quoted supports the West minster confession. Ihedinobi has just given analogies with investment/ AIDS. I gave the very word of God stating the truth. So if anyone thinks what I have stated is not the truth, can you then counter with specific Bible verses. Thanks.

First of all thanks ihedinobi & Image123 for participating in this thread. My main aim is sound reasoning. I have looked at the thread and the comments make sense. In particular I would like to reason with the following quote from ihedinobi based on that thread:

Finally, if we were all to lay aside our spiritual (?) prejudices and examine the Word of God, we will be surprised to find that some elements in both Arminianism and Calvinism were borrowed from Christ. We would see how a loving God predestinates without binding man to His Will whether he, man, likes it or not. We will see how God's love or hatred for people before they're even born is totally dependent on their acceptance or rejection of Him when they have been born. We will see how punishment for rejecting God is less an act of a vindictiveness and more an act of Love accepting rejection withou taking away justice.

First, this quote is in line with the westminster confession given above so there is consistency.
But I think this is errorneous: We would see how a loving God predestinates without binding man to His Will whether he, man, likes it or not.
Men are indeed saved whether they like it or not because apparently saved people are God's gift to Christ. The most relevant portion of Bible to support this is: "as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" they believe because they have been so ordained so indeed man was bound to his will of salvation without choices and these men are speecific not just whoever will for God said to Paul to not be afraid while preaching "for I have much people in this city" who again will be saved.

Now in terms of God predestinating without binding men to his will, we see again the reverse as being the case where God even recorded specific actions of ALL humans before a single day had passed:

Psalm
You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

Job
You have decided the length of our lives. You know how many months we will live, and we are not given a minute longer.

Romans 11:5
So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

Narrow is the way that leads to life and FEW there be that find it.

These verses sum up everything both in terms of predestination o eternal destinies and even of actual actions of men. God set limits.

Again to cut the long story short, my point is that both the west minster confession and anglican articles are accurate reflections of what the bible says about the destinies of men and that indeed some men cannot accept christ simply because they were not elected. And secondly that the elect and the elect only will be saved and such are few in number. My final point is that the majority of mankind canot be saved, that anybody not elect will burn in everlasting torment to the praise of the glorious justice of God according to the bible.

Simeontaiwo: Dis as 2 do wit ur definition of christian,cos a tru christian will nt b scared of heaven cos they kw they will sit at d right side of our God,bt most of us we allow our flesh 2 contro us so we are nt even sure if we are going 2 heaven or hell dats why 90% of us get scared of death

What is the flesh? If you are talking of se.xx as evil then turn gay!

Biggoozz: To add to his revealation, hear this: God has has been answering the prayer of the rich man in hell (Luke 16), sending us people from the dead to warn us about the realities of heaven and hell!!! Just 2 Sundays ago, two of them were at my church to share terrifying experiences of what people go through for eternity in hell and the incomprehensible beauties of heaven. These guys are now being sent so often because Jesus knows the church is in comma and to letting people know what is about to hit them as the time is soooooooo out! You know why God's judgement is without mercy? He allows us to show responsibility, He is no Boko Haram that terrifies people to submission, but I tell you, if you see the most evil man in hell being punished, you will wonder how God is that merciless and yet seems weak in people's lifetime when they have the chance to change. Blessed are those that believe without seeing!!! I wash my hands.

This is complete and utter BS. God said only few will go to heaven and foreordained the rest of mankind to everlasting punishment. So why is he sending us people to "warn" us as though we can do anything about it.

Once again 1 Peter 2:8
and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

Thus says the Lord:

1 Peter 2:8
and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.

The Bible is here telling you that some people were destined to sins. Need more Bible verses?

Again, to the nairaland christian community - why are you shying away?

but the creeds have Bible backings though. Just not listed for brevity.

Image123 and Ihedinobi - please I need your inputs on a very important thread. While you post there, dont post your own ideas or what you think the answer should be - just post scriptures to support whatever you say. https://www.nairaland.com/1095513/christians-believe-not-tell-me#12856888