₦airaland Forum

olumide4christ:
The house should also understand that in most cases, handling labor work using the daily pay system always ends up in time delays as the artisans & laborers will intentionally work slowly such that the more the job is prolonged, the more daily wages they get.
On the other hand, when the artisans are paid per m2 or any other unit of measurement or on contract basis, they tend to move the work fast so that they can finish and move on to work on some other site.
A practical example happened recently on one of our sites. The building had already been completed but my chairman didn't like the quality of the HDF door frames and subframes. He directed that they be changed to hardwood throughout. We got a mason to cut open the wall around the door openings using electric grinder, fix the subframes with mortar and dress. This mason wanted to use 12 days to the job but because we gave the job to him as a contract of N80,000 as against N120,000 which he asked for a total of 54 doors, he finished the job within the 6 days which I gave him as his timeline.
If we had paid him per day, he would surely not finish the job in 12 days.

The #80k you paid is the right wage, contract or no contract.

The ideology behind agreeing to a particular price based on any unit of measurement does not actually make a work move faster per se. It is only an expression.

A mason is supposed to take minimum of #3k home in the instance of laying 100 blocks of 6".
If he intends to set block only to cover 1.5sqm of wall who is to be affected? Well he will tell his wife at home the reason. Same goes for all artisan works going by sqm pricing.

GoodFaith:
Now you have the right information
to question the people doing the fencing for you
My guess is u don't live in Nigeria
don't be surprise if he use 12 bags of cement for one trip, Yes Our people

Based on my location
A couple of things I do not even think of doing,exceeding the limit even if it works for others.

A 6tyre tipper sharp sand (local dredging)----(6"blocks mould/12bags cement max/40 blocks(will never exceed).

Mortar Chalking space is width of finger.
1.5 bags of cement for setting 100-110 blocks of 6".

GoodFaith:
Yes
I usually say one and half bags
I had war with my theft brother telling me he set 1900 blocks for 28 bags of cement
I keep record downstairs he used 22 bags for 1900
I told him , oh boy why are we using 28 bags now
The story was it rained-- I said really so river niger wash the other bags of cement away---
Your people

Okay.

GoodFaith:
The question you need to ask is
The number of block u need and the height.
Are u buying block? or mould your block
How many blocks will you need for the fence
If they tell you , U need 1500 block
To set 1500 blocks will cost about 80k
You need a foundation put 30k
About 22 bags of cement to set 1500 blocks
10 bags of cements for foundation or less

22 bags of cement to set 1500 blocks.
That amounts to 1 bag of cement per 100 -set blocks.
Giving by your estimate for mould, that's about 1 bag cement to approximate of 50 blocks.
Height of fence wall is 10 course.

GoodFaith:
"Plastering of walls, I price it per SQM"
Your SOM have to add up to two bricklayer and a server if am buying material
A contractor told my friend to set a block in Lagos was N50 for one block
I told my friend it was a good price why
In Benin a bricklayer and one server set 100 block a day, some might do 105 blocks a day
so to set 100 block in Lagos per the contractor will be N5000 for 100 block
In Benin a bricklayer is N3000 daily and a server is N2000 daily

That is good.
Please can #600k do a plot size of 50X100 ft fence work using only 6"blocks all through. Material procurement and Labour all inclusive in Benin.
At least that is what a NL is willingly to offer.

Price is not hidden. Most Engineers/Architects/Professionals in the industry know that and they make good money only when they are in charge of procuring materials for usage on their sites.
The remaining is left to you to bargain based on what you feel should be the proper wage due the service to be rendered.


Based in my region
Mason for block work
#45-#50/block---------- 6" hollow block
#50-#60/block-----------9"

Tiler
#350-#400---------sqm

Plastering
#2000-#2500-------------per partition(inclusive of labour/helper)

Iron work/Carpenter-------#4000/day(you have to know what he needs to accomplish regarding a days' job)

Electrician/Technician-----------#4000/day

Trench Excavation-----#200-#300/m [2ft/3ft depth]

Painter---------#4000/day

Manual batching-----------#500/bag.

All unskilled labour----------#1500-#2000/day


I guess I did not miss anything important above.

The real thing, the real work, the real deal.

What should be a fair pay based on per day jobs if that will be at play regarding supervision fees and also a fair rate based on them putting up designs of whatever nature.

Engineer/Architect--------Certified/Registered with 10-25yrs practice in the field.

Engineer/Architect--------Certified/Registered with 5-10yrs.

Engineer/Architect---------full with experience and expert knowledge

Engineer/Architect---------Graduate/Post NYSC.

Draughtsman--------------Registered/Certified
Draughtsman--------------Post College/ Experience


Given all that if I would even get a reply

How much would any one consider a fair price on per day payment in his/her own individual professional career?

GoodFaith:
One room you need two bricklayers and one server for the walls
Just inside the building
so for 5 bedroom you need total of 10 bricklayers and 5 servers
Living and dinning room four bricklayers and two servers
You have the hallway and kitchen let us put four bricklayers and two servers
Total bricklayer is now 18 and servers 9 servers
If Bricklayer is N3000 a day
Servers is N2000 a day
Total for bricklayers N54,000
total for Server is N18,000
Total to plastering five bedrooms and one living and dinning is N72,000

hmmm

Someone's research work based on Arch. professional fees,etc,etc.

oyb:
imho, the electrician is your average naija technician - learned by rote, never upgraded, dismissive of new technology, has 'years of experience'.
when someone is talking about running coax [antenna] cable everywhere in 2017



this is why i keep asking for the drawing. most people i know who have money or who are based abroad want as much replication of western creature comforts as possible. some even want technology that i am not certain will work here seamlessly.

Well if we see the electrical plan then it's our luck.
Let's just wait till that time.

I do not consider a novice of any client who could afford #4M to 25M to put up a carcass of any structure.
Any thing to be done that comes after the carcass then the client should have an input and the contractor afterwards can come up to speed with whatever that is trendy.

oyb:
i was on the road

i am home now and in front of my pc

i am sorry, but i am going to disagree with most of what is posted.

this is based on a simple premise - your guy is an americana and can afford to get it right the first time.

first off, as i noted earlier, the prices for most of those fitings are the prices you get when you walk into any " and sons shop" without stating that you want original.

i ould strongly suggest you engage a contractor of sorts. everything in the electrican's quote screams 1970 [ stablock, ac socket, cutout]

an original mem/abb 13a socket is in the range of N800 to 900
an original earth rod is in the range of 5000 to 7500

a gen changeover can NEVER be N2000. not possible - and he has not even given a size [ i would start from 32A]

most of those items will fail within two to three months of use. if you are unlucky, they can cause a fire. that is my professional opinion. no need to 'manage' if you can afford not to.

the proposal is also very poorly done

this is what it is - you can break you electrical down

lighting [indoor and outdoor] - i did not see that there - unless it is the 'half moon' he is referring to. an led or compact florescent bulb starts from n800 [osram, GE , philips]. and that is does not include the fittings

power distribution [raw] - your distboard, socket outlets, connection for AC]
power dist [ups] ditto, but connected to your inverter / solar power installation
LAN [you guy will buy smart tvs etal, and your isp may be iffy] so you want to set up a lan taht your desktop modem will feed into [or you can get those powerline devices]
security [ at the very least, panic buttons a siren and flashing beacon light]
you can also go for cctv and intrusion detection.
fire alarm [stand alone smoke detectors]
TV [ points for coax cale from dstc, ditto for hdmi cable ]
if your guy is the music aficionado, wired speakers in the ceiling
mains supply - nepa /generator/ inverter incomers
i would go as far as to advise you to get a 30kva transformer, esp if you are in an urban area. transformers in most urban areas are always overloaded, which is wy you get stuff like low current. you may also have some neighbours doing industrial stuff in their places, whic will lead to voltage dips. you can avoid all this by buying your own dedicated transformer

please note i am laying all this out because i believe your friend working in the US will be exposed and have expectations about what should be in his house. he also will have resources to get this done. if you can afford it, spend money and get it right the first time

as to cables - nigerchin, kabelmetal, nocaco
1.5 mm for ligt
2.5mm for ring circuits
4.0 for ac


with regards to plumbing, first off, you can either check the people egunmogaji posted or sweet home or twyford.
the guy is putting water heater, but no copper pipe
you can either buy pvc pipe for cold water, or composite pipe
you also need to run copper pipe for you gas cooker
i would suggest you include floor drains in the kitchen and restrooms

the cost is not much, but the quality you will get will not be it IMHO.

please post a drawing of your friends place

the important thing is to think everything out in the beginning, rather than continuous breaking and readjusting afterwards.

Maybe the electrician made a mistake putting quotes for 1970 materials,etc,etc.
I think the guy whose friend is an Americana should be able to have an influence as to the quality of electrical materials used,etc,etc.

He should be the one to communicate with his friend at this stage even before getting the services of any electrician for quotes of any nature.

twinskenny:
the quote for the electrical is perfect sir.. those fittings and cable prices are okay.. i believe he is buying average fittings though.. that are some well known name fittings that are quite expensive that those (ABB, SCHNEIDER, LEGRAND)

The labour is fine too

but i dont know why he is 1mm insteal of 1.5mm for lightings though
thanks

It's safe to use 1mm for lightings if you're going to use LEDs. Nigerchin works fine for me so far.

Daboomb:
You might have to strip the wire of the 'abundance of 'rubber shearting' so oyu can measure the exact size of the copper wire inside.

Our Boys in Nigeria have perfected the scam such that the cable will measure up to size but the copper inside is one-tenth of the required size, and that is what really matters in a cable.

Most likely.
Most persons bother about the size when there are a couple of other things to worry about which actually constitutes a good wire for that specific use.
It is a battle of brand names vs no brand names. We are in a country where any thing cheap is considered fake so the boys have to be up their sleeves at all times.
Quality comes with attributes.

If you're bothered about the size of electrical cable you can afford to get this handy.

oyb:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/5984348_kosoko_jpeg118b8a297bb6d7036502b47f1221d696

smh.not cool.

My use of terms is understandable amongst friends where I reside.
Depending on the kind of job involved that beer could worth XYZ sum of money and it could also be a service offered free.

olawuyi78:
Greetings, comrade !. I came here to seek your opinions. I just bought a plot of land with a "face me and face you" foundation already on it. It happened that the width of the foundation is almost the same as my plan's width but Its length is longer. my question is "can I just do a german floor on the foundation and continue on my plan on the german floor instead of breaking the existing foundation? " Thanks.

Get a friend who is an Engineer and buy him a bottle of beer after he has rendered his service.

Hoping the existing foundation pattern is likened to your handy design plan.

Just pick 2-5 points around the foundation wall. Break to expose to see the foundation blinding thickness and to ascertain the right aggregate of materials were used to achieve that.

Modify your design plan perimeter to be same as existing foundation.

Check dimensions of foundation partition walls as against that on your design plan.

From your design plan create foundation partition walls where appropriate on the existing foundation.

GenBuhari:
Any good 4bed house for N8m in safe (gated) areas of Portharcourt or Calabar?

At that price you might be lucky for a 3 bed house.
Do you have any preferred areas in Port Harcourt?

justyinka:
I Have up to 20m, Need advise on how to buy land, here is my phone number 07069358975

Where is your location and which specific area do you intend to buy the land?
Are you intending to buy the land to put your a building or for other purposes?

deltateam:
I have 2 draws for this week.

You care to share the games.

Emmafly:
thanks Sir.
though this is the latest output from my brick oven that I taught the house how to construct earlier on.
though my point is to encourage farmers to construct one.
I am in Lagos
just exported last week to Canada.
its N4,000 per kg. that's the export price too.
I am always ready to do business. I have all sizes and any quantity.

08183549869 call/ whatsapp/ telegram

That's good.
Please can you kindly share your Canada link for export of produce?

abdulwastecx:
I think that line you quoted is a common knowledge among engineering graduates, there is a course in the university called Engineering in society ( It is a 200L course in the university, you will see all the details about the engineering family there)

Percentages are assigned based on the engineering curriculum, you can also look that up

I didn't skip that of the technicians, it is right there in my comment above you can look it up

They don't have the ability to conceptualize ideas, they will need to be trained to do so. You just don't wake up one day and start to design a reinforced concrete foundation like pile or raft, you need to be equipped to do so and the only recognized program that will equip you are the civil engineering program such as engineering geology, foundation engineering, and advanced reinforced concrete design/ You will need to get an engineering degree from a university to do this

I keep checking things up and there's no up to where the things are going. Those percentages are basically for academic purposes and not entirely true to itself and most probably applies to our Nigerian environment which is why you're bent on following that line of argument.

If your assumed kind of technicians cannot conceptualize I guess these one here can to a large extent.
https://collegegrad.com/careers/civil-engineering-technicians

darenyx:
Do you know that with 8-10m you could move into your own home before the end of the year ?? Let's build this 3bedrooom bungalow for you ... features :
Living room
Dinning
Kitchen
Store
Laundry
Bedroom 1,2,3 (all rooms ensuite with wardrobe)

And you only need a half plot for this ... (build two of these Ion a full plot with enough parking for 6 cars)

Call : 08034843342
07055444324
Email: darenyxaid@gmail.com .. Let's seal a deal today

I want to believe that amount includes complete finishing.

abdulwastecx:
I don't think so.

The engineering family works like a pyramid where you have a tiny apex and a very wide base.

In the family you have the engineers> the technologies>technicians >artisans. Each of these family members roles is very important and their remuneration should be based on the amount of work put in.

The engineers are trained to be more theoretically oriented because they conceived the ideas and use both mathematically and scientific principle to design them, they required more maths and science to put these ideas into reality hence do more theory than practical but they also need to have practical ideas about what they want to design so they also need a bit of practical. For engineers, it is more like 75% theory and 25% practical.

The technologies work under the engineers and they are required to interpret all the design information produced by the engineer on site, They are also required to have a strong theoretical base and a strong practical base ( it is more like 50% practical to 50% theory)

The technicians work directly under the supervision of the technologies, they are required to put the ideas of the ideas of the designer into actuality, they are required to be very practical in their aproach and to also have some theoritical knowledge in other to understand the engineers design( they are more like 75% practical and 25% theory).

Finally, we have the artisans, these are the people responsible for the actual practical work, they do the actual construction. These group are required to be 100% practical and they are the carpenters, mason, Plumber, electricians of this world.

In summary, all the engineering family are important and there pay should be commensurable to the complexity of work, the risk involved and their demand and supply.

A typical civil engineering work will have: for every one engineer < two technologies < four technicians < eight artisans.

A more complex engineer work will required an engineer with master or doctorate degree to lead them

I guess you did not get my drift.

Regarding the bold, I guess you took the line from the write up "the engineering family or team: who are they" by Uzochukwu Mike. The source of that quote is unknown with no backing reference and so i'll take it as his own assumption.

The assigning of percentages to the respective professions based on theory and practical is another assumption also. There's no authority that confirms that.
It is known that engineering graduates have more to do with theory and less practical but it does not translate to that 75/25. Another can say 60/40. And to say the technologists have a 50/50............
Artisans you say are 100 on practical and you skipped that for technicians.
Can we rightly say that these guys do not have the ability to conceptualize?

Well the respective professions have a running curriculum and the various accredited institutions stick to it as best as they can.

There is always a form of synergy amongst these set of professionals in any work place to achieving success on any particular project.

Be that as it may be it will out of a complex situation for a technologist/technician/craftsmen(artisans) to consider them selves as an engineer though any of the aforementioned can use that title based on some upgrade or as a title based on his company's structure and needs.

The link below shows the respective titles and qualifications:
http://toscanyacademy.com/blog/nigeria-education/how-to-become-a-registered-nigerian-engineer

EndiaSami:
InstanT water heaters.
07036341294
sales.sweethomebathrooms@gmail.com

Are those waterless heater and how much does it cost now?

All over the world be you a university,polytechnic,college of education, monotechnic graduate; they all know their place in the society within their respective chosen fields.
It's only in Nigeria due to inferiority complex, biased reasoning and misplaced priorities, that we find ourselves indulging in such discuss.

......running down of QS as a profession!
......university vs polytechnic graduates!!

What next again?

We still have;
College of education
Monotechnic
Technical college
Etc, etc,etc


All are graduates in different categories but it's not every body who reads that's understands.

The only thing that matters is be good at whatever you're doing wherever you find your self to be.

After all making love requires both the use of the brain and hand.

blacksta:
Please Guys recommend a Contractor or Leave your details here thanks

I have a project ( Demolish and Rebuild) in Lagos State and looking for contractor who will carry this out for me

I restrict myself to the S, E and North for such jobs.

But you can contact any one of these on this platform.

Skimanski
Darenyx


Goodluck.

EgunMogaji:
Thanks for the response Sir.

I pose this question specifically to you and the other demonstrated Ogas like, Skimanski, Spyder880, Aventures, RichYoungRuler, ArchitecB, Darynex

1) Why don't we design trusses that does not require internal support? Is it because of know how or simply unavailability of proper materials?

2) Is this limiting to the designs that we can eventually build?

Thank you for your time.

Pardon me but I keep wondering why those called to do justice to this question are yet to attend to it.

seunben:
Thanks. Pls can you be more specific by pointing out the observed errors in the design, it will go a long way in letting me know what to look out for when the final plan is out. I am a novice oo

You certainly cannot have the entire 3 rooms exposed especially when none indicates usage by guest.
The door to your lounge opens directly into the lobby; don't understand the purpose of that.

If you intend to maintain same orientation, this is what I think you should do
Lounge----still right
Dinning----left
Kitchen-----shares partition wall with dinning

Create your lobby and fix in the rooms accordingly.

seunben:
What is wrong with this building plan of one unit 3 bedroom flat and one unit 2 bedroom flat?
I feel the kitchen is too far away from the dining for the first flat. Is there any other thing wrong with the design?

A lot of things are wrong with this plan which is also subject to what you actually want.
Try changing the entire orientation of the plan.

barakah:
Hello Expert builders and Architects in the house.
I have just acquired a half plot of land (60 by 60 feet) in the outskirts of Lagos.

I however need advise on how to fully utilize/develop this space despite limited space.

1) I plan to erect a structure both for personal habitation and partly for rent.

2) Instead of a fence, I intend to build lockup shops in the front area

3) Parking space is also expected for at least two cars.

How do you suggest this should play out?
Can i possibly achieve all stated requirements?
Where will my waste water tank be?

Let's learn from all your wealth of experience as I'm already feeling like a total waste of resources.

Archives

Flaghouse1:
Knowledge they say is power,

Seeing these links speaks volumes, I will read up and add more knowledge ,you sabi do research ooo,

However, special thanks to Alahji mufu for creating this thread which to me can be referred to MASTERS CLASS - SCHOOL OF BUILDING TECHNOLOGY

KUDOS Sir !!!

KUDOS TO ALL.
Thanks.