₦airaland Forum

Humchi:
you cleared it yourself that you as an atheist you believe there is no god.

I never, ever said "I believe there is no God"! I am incapable of such levels of stupidity!

Humchi:
that is absurdity.

My point exactly. How could anyone refuse to believe what they actually know to be true?

Humchi:
Mention any heresy you think we are preaching concerning atheism.

Thank for the example above so I don't have to go far!

Atheist don't do heresy. Nothing is sacrosanct to atheists.

Though, I never said you were preaching it!

frank317:
This is why religious folks must define what Gods help really is

The op actually define orisha as mans survival instict

I agree. And his wiki reference supports that position. It's worth a read so I've simplified vaxx's link to it.

God helps those who help themselves

Humchi:
you mean that there is a God but you don't believe in Him?

Or worse, there is a God but you believe it doesn't exist?

vaxx:
To some degree, this is applicable. But in pratical. It violate Yoruba vocabulary.


Visit this my thread. to check yourself......https://www.nairaland.com/3757995/stop-calling-name-god-it

Your position on that thread would be like asking a Muslim to stop calling God, Allah. You did say "The truth is universal". So it hardly ought to matter what language one uses. The fact is that everyone defines their own Orisha. And delegating it to an external being, albeit supreme, is a gross act of neglecting ones responsibility to oneself. And those as such cannot be responsible for others, since they are themselves enslaved.

Seun:
Have you noticed that religious apologists always pretend that they don't understand what atheism means? No matter how many times you tell them that atheism is simply the absence of belief in God, they will continue to define it as the position of being 100% certain that no God exists.

Some of us are absolutely 100% certain that no gods exist, so I can't blame them for that. It's when they decide to reduce one's knowing to a mere belief that I get irky. They just can't see that their belief is more evidence that gods only exist in their heads and no one elses. And they wish to reduce one's knowing to their level of unknowing.

vaxx:
understand what it means. When Yoruba use the word olodumare.

The presumption that the Omo Oba Orun would not know his father is rather comical I dare say, despite my position that the father and the son are distinct separate entities. Except I expect no better from those who worship him, I guess.

Olodumare means pretty much the same as God, vaxx. Same attributes and powers to boot!

AlexRi:
Amen! Budaatum, hope you've forgiven me?

There was nothing to forgive since I was never offended. We come here to learn, or at least we ought to. It is sheer hubris to think otherwise. It is unloving too. And buda goes to hell, no passing go and no two hundred, if she dares forget that, atheist or not!

enilove:
Yes , you and your son are two separate people , no doubt.
To be oneness with someone means , to be in harmony , sameness , unity , wholeness. That is , to be completely united with someone.

Good. You have clearly defined how two separate entities can be seen as one. It is when the two distinctly separate entities are united in "harmony, sameness, unity, wholeness".

So let us not wrongly fudge the demarcations for the sake of our beliefs, no matter how strongly we may wish to hold unto to them.

vaxx:
They present toxic role models/country for you and you follow them, thereby you are now in the interest of destroying the orisha that lives inside you.

I thank my Orisha therefore, that I am an atheist. For my Orisha is not destroyed by any priest or church, be they of Olodumare or Yahweh!

AlexRi:
Ok, assumption is wrong. Anyway, you are right that God's standards are exceedingly high, and no man can meet them. But Jesus has fulfilled ALL for the whole world. What is left is for man is to believe. Shalom!

Not true! Do note that by "Jesus has fulfilled all for the whole world", I am accepting that he has shown the way, and written it in blood too so it is never forgotten!

And he did claim that "Whoever understands will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these".

Believing, is rather insufficient. The road is way too narrow! Even the devil believes, but most would agree he will remain in hell!

To claim "no man can meet them", especially regarding the topic being discussed, has an error in understanding. "Those who do my will will never be shaken and will enter the Holy Mountain". One should strive harder if that is one's desire.

AlexRi:
I was in the wrong, forgive me. I just re-read your comment on my quote. I've modified it. It's wrong of me to have replied you when I was engrossed in somethn els

The Lord is with you.

vaxx:
"ORUNMILA WI ENIYAN NI DORISHA" . LITERALLY MEANS, IT IS HUMAN WHO TURNS TO ORISHA.

And in Christian language, loosely translated,
"Know ye that ye are gods!"

vaxx:
it means people who help themselves. People who take care of their own responsibilities will have better things happen in their lives then people who don’t. So your child is part of your responsibility.

Like many religious people, they don’t do much to take care of their own problems, and instead wish that an outside force would intervene on their behalf. It’s fine to hope to be blessed/have good things happen, but that wishing can’t be your primary way of dealing with the problems of life.

A similar saying is like trust in your security guide but untie your dog while sleeping at night.

So, basically, if I help myself, Olodumare, the gods, will help too. Would they add to my help, I wonder, or does all the effort have to come from me?

If you consider 'the gods', to be the primitives way of saying 'knowledge', 'understanding', and ultimately 'wisdom', one can see how this might work. The gods would make me realise the need for hospitals and well trained doctors and nurses who are full of knowledge so that when my child is ill I can take him there to be healed. Unfortunately, religion has decided that the knowledge of the gods is to believe whatever I am told so all I got is the preacher and his church!

I do propose we kill our 'gods' and abandon 'belief'. That is what other nations had to do and which made some smart and strong so that they were the masters and we ended up with chains around our necks!

enilove:
Stop beating about the bush.
The President can delegate his authority to the vice and the vice would exercise this authority just like the president. That is constitutional. In the absence of Buhari who is in power?
Delegation means consent or agreement. Since I made mention of that , why saying no and twisting what I said.

As per the father's properties , why would the father will his properties away unless his does not love the child or the child is disobedient. But this is not the case with Jesus.

The Bible says in :

Matthew 3:16-17 KJV
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: [17] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


If you love your son and you are pleased with him , you will be happy to give him all you have. You will be happy seeing your clothes on him . When he drives your car , it would give you joy.
You feel happy blessing your son because he is your son.

You may accuse me of whatever you like, enilove. The fact remains that my son is not me. And I would not have to delegate power if we were one as it would be taken for granted that we are one if we were. The fact that I have to delegate the power is sufficient evidence that we are two distinct separate entities, be it my son or the vice president. If not, my son would be representing himself at his school on parent's day. Now wouldn't that save me taking a day off for the tiny blighter!

AlexRi:
Don't cherry pick the quote man! Because, as you did, God's Love really look like it is suspecting and unloving which is contrary to the message in the quote. If you look at the quote from a holistic point of view (that is, marry every word together) you will realize, the central message is, God's Love is UNIVERSAL; for ALL! You are right that God's standards are exceedingly high, and no man can meet them. But Jesus has fulfilled ALL for the whole world. What is left is for man is to believe. And hey, the illustration you gave of the 'stabing stuff' contradict your cherry picking in my quote. Shalom!

You would please be specific and show me which quote I cherry pick.

When I converse with Christians, I do assume they are aware of the devil's cherry picking when he tempted Christ on the mountain. If I do the same, I am a fool for not comprehending the most basic and one of the first lesson Christ taught one to beware of. Or I am assuming you are stupid, which I think you would find opposes my words against assumptions. I am after all an atheist. I need evidence, and not baseless assumptions cooked up in my head!

Do note that I expect you to at least refer to the entire chapter, and Bible, and whatever the Holy Spirit brings to mind, and if you can, bring your entire knowledge in too, when you read what I write. Do not cherry pick in your understanding, for that is not what Jesus taught one to do.

bloodofthelamb:
The world's kind of love is faulty and selfish. A man who is outside of God will love you either for his own personal gain or for showmanship.

His love is always laced with selfish motives. It might be hidden from men, but naked to God.

You cannot know my reasons for loving you, and assuming it is "laced with selfish motives" is simply a reason to not love in return! It is a justification commonly used to enemify others and to not love them oneself.

Besides, it is not for me to look into your heart when you show me love. If I do it says more about me as I would be the one assuming bad motive, which is an act devoid of love. Nor is it a requirement that you love me! My duty is that I mind my own heart and worry not into the content of the heart of others. Consider the profound reward. I will be 'loved' just about as much as I love others, as implied in "Forgive me my trespasses as much as I forgive those that trespass against me". So I better love plenty so that my reward is plenty too. Not that I am claiming that is, or should be my motive, mind.

Motive is not necessarily a bad thing. I should simply "let my light shine before others", the motive being, "that they may see my good deeds and glorify the Father in heaven". But if they assume that my shinning light is for the glorification of something else, I can only pray their God please forgive them.

bloodofthelamb:
budatum, I agree with you that he who love their neighbour selflessly is he who love God.

But only God has selfless love. humanity does not possess it. I will boldly declare, that those not in Christ cannot love their neighbour selflessly. You can't give what you don't have.

Even if I give all my goods to the poor without the right motive. I have done nothing.

Friend, selfless love is allien to the world.

Thank you. As to your bold declaration, anyone who knows the story of the good Samaritan would have to redefine what is meant by "those not in Christ".

The Samaritan was considered to be worse than some Christians see Muslims today despite, or more especially as they were Israelites who ought to have known better. If anything, they were considered more like pagans than anything else as they worshipped a god called Nergal who was the deity of the city of Cuth. Yet, "Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise.""

If you can accept that anyone can "be in Christ", even a Samaritan, an atheist, Muslim pagan and such like, then we are in agreement. But if you think "Lord, Lord", is the more important, then I am afraid we understand in different ways.

We humans are asked to aspire. And to claim no one is capable of selfless love, without a motive, is an act of unloving in it's own right. In truth, you cannot see into anyone's heart, and to judge by what gods they may worship is an error. "By our fruit are we known", and not "by the contents of our hearts".

enilove:
You are wrong. Osinbajo is a president but second in rank to the president while the senate president is 3 rd in rank to the president. The Two are Presidents but one is higher in rank .

Whatever the vice President does is deemed to be done by the President.
The President can send his vice to represent him at an occasion .
Whatever Osinbajo says becomes the law and would be seen as being spoken by the President himself since the President has delegated that authority to him.

There is a delegated power and residual or retainable power .

This is not true eni! The vice president only wields power at the mercy of the President and can not say anything and it becomes law unless it has been agreed by the president, nor does the president delegate power such that the vice president can go about speaking as if he were the president. If that were not the case, you'd truly have two presidents who, if they do not agree on policy, will be squabbling amongst themselves. And the fact that "delegation" has to occur, which involves a letter from the president saying so is enough to denote the clear separation of the two distinct offices and persons.

As to one's father's property being one's property, this is untrue also. One's father can always will his property it to charity and there isn't much the son can say or do about it. And then there's the case of one's father's certificates. If one's father is a qualified doctor, lawyer or accountant, the son does not inherit the right to practise in these fields despite them being 'properties' that the father wields! He'd have to go to school if he wishes to.

I do wish it were not so though. I'd get to save a lot on sending my son to school!

AlexRi:
Another thing is, as humans (whether atheist, muslim or christian) we all love but what differentiate our kinda love from God's is that, God kinda love "is not partial skeptical love which seeks to embrace only those who echo our feelings, hopes, aspirations, likes and dislikes nor is it reciprocal. Rather, it is a love that is trusting and opens towards ALL, both friends and foes. It is unsuspecting and it seeks to win over the opponent even as he may be planning to stab us viciously in the back". I suppose this isn't the kind of love you mean humans have or is it? Now, when you realise and believe God loves you this much, what follows is you loving your neighbour as you have been loved.

I like! But don't go supposing. It is an act that is suspecting on the assumption that one "seeks to win over the opponent even as he may be planning to stab us viciously in the back", or does not "echo our feelings, hopes, aspirations, likes and dislikes nor is it reciprocal". Even seeing another as "opponent" or assuming they "may be planning to stab us viciously in the back" is an unloving act!

God's standards are exceedingly high. The love of God is the sort of love whereby one allows others to stab and stab and stab seventy times seventy times in the hope that one continues turning the back to be stabbed some more. If one does not love to that standard, one should consider trying harder. For such as these do not love their God enough!

AlexRi:
The Love that comes from the knowledge and realization of God's love is second to none! Your love for God is made manifest when you love your neighbour not the reverse. So, atheist that donot even believe in HIS existence, love Him? You certainly can not give what you don't have!

In bold is true. One doesn't need to love any god to love ones neighbour. If one loves one's neighbour, God is loved, be they atheist, Samaritan, pagan etc.

Ubenedictus:
that is pretty simple, we call her mother of Jesus because that is who she is, we also call her mother of our savior because that is who she is, we call her mother of our Lord and God because that is who she is but we actually particularly use the later title because it is an implicit declaration that we believe in the divinity of Jesus, it means clearly that I believe Jesus is God..

If Jesus is the God, as some claim, born of the Virgin Mary, "full of Grace", then by implication, Mary is God's mother!

The error however, is in defying Jesus, a fault that is general to Christianity. They have created a god in their own image while not acknowledging the commandment not to and have spent the past 2000 years trying to justify their error and make it fit the texts.

Ubenedictus:
Bloodofthelamb I ask you this, did Mary give birth to her God, her Lord, her creator, or not?

He probably has to say yes, being that he is a Christian, but the answer is no!

Mary gave birth to her son, Jesus! A mother cannot give birth to her creator, and mothers don't normally worship their sons!

frbona:
what does Luke27:28 say in your bible cause I can't find it in mine

Missing in mine too! And I do hate my Bible being incomplete !

delkuf:
God don't want any thing from you. the only thing He ask you to do for Him, is to preach the gospel of Christ to the dying world.

Yet, it is written that "When I was hungry you fed me", and not "when I was hungry you preached the gospel to me".

I guess there is an error in the text, for there most definitely cannot be an error in your holy spirit led understanding.

shaybebaby:
You are right, that's Lupita Nyongo, the actress.

She is definitely not the one in the second pic.

Thank you! I thought op was lying, or at least using false evidence to prove his point. Now I know op just wants me to tell people I am foolish like him, if I post his lies to those who know me!

How evil of you op!

bloodofthelamb:
You can't skip loving God, then jump to loving your neighbour. It doesn't work that way. Loving GOD is you being ever mindful of his everlasting love for you. When you are mindful of his great love for you, that is when you are loving him.

I beg to differ! You began well enough but got lost along the way somewhere.

When Jesus, who Christians call God, was asked when it was that they had loved God, he answered, "in as much as ye have done for those here whom thou seest, ye have done for the Lord thy God in heaven whom thou seest not".

You show the love of God by loving your fellow human being, or the Levite and the Priest would precede the Samaritan in going to heaven, and the Samaritan would continue unto the hell many think was preserved for him!

You cannot love God and hate your neighbour! And those who love their neighbour love God whether they are Samaritans, Muslims, atheists or Christians!

frank317:
Lol... The guys don't think. Before Christ died, how do they make heaven? Isnt it by repenting and asking for forgiveness? Christ death even made it worst, u have to believe first, then repent and ask for forgiveness.
Me think the death of Christ(if its true) is absolute bullcrap

There was this express train from Jerusalem straight to heaven and tickets were free but only a few were chosen. Now you get to live in hell to qualify to get there and everyone gets a go.

nwabekeyi:
The onus is on you to envagelize to the atheists and prove to them that God exists with signs and wonders.

If you cannot do that, then I don't think you are doing your job as a Christian. Asking them to prove what they don't believe in is logically dead and irrational.

I think this is the kind of reasoning we portray that makes atheists see Christians as deluded and inert to reasoning, we live a life of self denial.

I'm a Christian and I think it's barbaric and makes no sense to say that evolution didn't happen, it takes a smart Christian to see where evolution was clearly explained in the bible.

Aleluya, Praise the Lord. And forever be blessed!
Amen.

You are evidence that Christianity is not the sort of ignorance the op portrays it as being.

nwabekeyi:
I can't be that ignorant.

You silly!

Practice 3 time a day. You will become more ignorant than op. If it were at all possible!

festwiz:
Can the theists prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not exist?

Let anyone even dare try. They will end up in Pastafarian Hell where the beer is stale and the strippers have sexually transmitted diseases.
FSM is Supremely Altasty!

chrisnwoke1:
Apostle Christian Nwoke©
https:///?phone=2347032469360

That girl in the first picture, can anyone tell who she is please. I'm sure she's not the person in the second picture!