₦airaland Forum

cococandy:
yes to this


Lol. I don't know. Maybe olanna knows

Just yes? no further gist?

Oya Olanna45 : I even invited megareal here to talk on that part.

cococandy:
That's a good question.

Na real 'That's a good question'

Most of the stuff I read on foreign women were from their histographers and studying their art.

Considering we were not 'literate' till after colonization, how did we communicate /preserve our history before?

Olanna45:
I don't know... But the ones i have seen since i became of age never left the marriage.

ok

Olanna45:
Child birth is handled by the local midwives... Religion is mostly our African traditional religion. Amadioha, ogwugwu, igwe ka ala etc.

Special antenatal/post natal care for the wives? Special rites men were not involved in? Tying of stomachs, special pepper soups etc.

Was there any traditional 'kegel'? Focus on restoring her body to pre-pregnancy size?

Olanna45:
She has... In a situation where she takes the kids along, the family has the right to claim the kids whenever they want to. Every other child/ren she has after the bride price is returned do not belong the family..

Are these women discriminated against? Were men willing to marry them then?

What about childbirth, after child birth care, religion, etc.

cococandy:
happy new year to you too. We are fine thank you
exactly. Yes they were reabsorbed accordingly.

something like that. However I've heard conflicting accounts of this aspect. So I guess it does depend on individuals



Monogamy was widely practiced as well as polygamy. The reason why it seems like monogamy was more common (in my opinion) is because igbos were very adept at absorbing the western culture. So polygamy went out of fashion fast same as idol worship and myriads of other traditional practices. I doubt many people really remember 100% what was authentic Igbo culture.
The last polygamous men in both sides of my family were my father's great grandfather and my mothers great great grandfather.

Interesting

So Igbo men back then had a reason to fight for their marriages.

Olanna45:
No, she is not permitted to take the kids. Unless, the family doesn't want the kids...

So she can give the kids to the family & walk away.

Woaw!

KevinDein:
have a like

Lol at have a like

Where is it?

Thanks.

megareal:
There are some native ways to tighten the vag after delivery. Reason why most mothers from my state insist on village omugwo.

My cousin's wife had that problem after delivering her first child. Her Hubby discovered she was wider and sent her back to her mother to help. The mother got hold of a local midwife and the therapy began. She went back fresh as new.

For the oyibo own, Kegels performs wonders but you have to start during pregnacy and continue after. The exercise shd be done as many times as possible in a day. If practiced correctly, it helps ma ke things tight.

Btw,Some men will always find reasons to complain and cheat. The thank you most women get for childbirth is cheating. SMH.

What did the midwives do?

Oya come to this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3560204/women-ancient-nigeria/1#up

Olanna45:
She can if the bride price is returned...

But the children which she was contracted to birth will belong to another man thereby defeating the purpose of marrying her in the first place.

Olanna45:
Whoever pays the brideprice owns the kids.

Woaw!

So basically, the 'wife' couldn't remarry...

Olanna45:
If the children are still tender... She is incharge. She oversees eveything that happens to the husband's properties until the children are of age. If the children comes of age.

Ok

sisisioge:
I acknowledge receipt darling...You are too kind

Have a great year

Olanna45:
The umuadas were, but i tell you, they are stronger when it comes to victimizing their fellow women.... They can only step in and fight for the woman if the husband is a nobody or the girl's father is rich.

The pre colonial igbo man is not monogamous. He is respected by the number of yam barns he has, the number of wives and children he has, His flock of domestic animals, how many heads and slaves he brought home from wars.

Though times has changed when it comes to divorced women re marrying, before now, they are been stigmatized.

So the Umuada were also tools who could be swung either way.

Thanks a lot Olanna45.

Olanna45:
The husband's properties are hers as well. She the next in command if the husband is no more.

The man is allowed to marry and divorce as many times as he wants. but the woman is not permitted to do so.

Yes, the women might be married and the husband is no more, and she doesn't have a child for the husband. she adopts that method so that the husband's lineage will not go into extinction.

In some cases( let me illustrate this with a story) it invovles one of my secondary school class mate...

A man got married and had 5 daughters.. Due to the love his wife or maybe finance, he did not marry a second wife. He passed away after some years. The five daughter are all married and their mum very old.

Now, they both had a meeting and decided that instead of allowing their father's name to phase out,they agreed to go and get a wife in his name. Now they met this family whose daughter got pregnant out of wedlock. They dicussed with the family their plans and both the daughter and parents agreed to it. Marital rites was performed. traditional wedding took place, the lady gave the wine to the first daughter of the dead man( she stood in place of her father) After some months, the lady put to bed a baby boy.... And automatically the boy becomes the dead man's son. ( that is my classmate)
Th lady later have a boyfriend( maybe not just one sha) but she had other children apart from this my classmate. She had 6 kids all together. 4 boys and two girls. These children are considered as the deadman's children. who ever donated the sperm for their conception has no right over them. He is just a sperm donor.

A wife next in command or her first son takes over?

At these women who birth for other wives, do they ever remarry? If yes, how are theit previous kids regarded @cococandy

If no, how do they satisfy their esx,.ual, emotional, financial etc. needs?

cococandy:
Before more tale spinners come, let me add that the idea of a woman who's not married being considered as unfortunate is not a traditional Igbo culture. It came from the west. They gave it a name (spinsterhood) and stigmatized it.
We adopted it and made it our own culture. Now anyone who doesn't agree with it is concerned too western

Off topic: the idea of persecuting 'witches and wizards' also came form the west. We are traditionally idol worshippers which is now considered as witchcraft.

Just adding. Y'all can continue

Lol!

Mindfulness:
Happy New Year dear! May you and your family be happy and healthy.

Google it.

Yes mamma

Beamborla:
I think the ancient/pre colonial women of both Igbo/Yoruba had the same experience.

The little difference I see is that I've never heard of a Yoruba woman marrying a wife for herself and some women were bold and daring enough to challenge the status quo...they made history.

Well I don't think their experience was same.

It would surprise you how monogamy, education or access to personal fund would change a society's lifestyle.

Olanna45:
Lol. Seriously ma'am i suck at typing.

I really appreciate your contributions

Thanks.

cococandy:
This is one thread where misogynists will have a field day spinning the lies that dance around in their fantasies

OP I'll still encourage you to read up some more on this topic from reliable history books. You can't really take people's words for it because most people have a 'Utopic' concept of how the olden days used to be. Usually based on their personal fantasies

Do we have history books written through our own eyes? Not by the whites?

cococandy:
*In my side of igboland, that must have male child thing was and is still despicably common.

*The man was/should be the provider. However recent times have changed this as we all know.

*Divorce was frowned upon but was not uncommon. Women used to divorce their husbands and husbands could divorce their wives based on factors ranging from maltreatment to infidelity.

*divorced women used to remarry all the time. Factor in polygamy and you'd see this wasn't far fetched. However the new husband claimed ownership of the children the woman has since he's the person who has paid the new bride price. It sometimes led to conflict especially where male children are concerned because they would recognize the brideprice paying man over the biological father. Still despicably happens until today.

Submission was not required. (It is a foreign concept that came with Christianity) If a man treats his wife bad, she could go back to her father's house and upon investigation, he may be sanctioned by the umuada and the wife appealed with to go back to him (remember they didn't like divorce). But that still happened anyway.
However respect was required.

Wives were encouraged to be industrious. With a polygamous setting, that's common sense anyway isn't it?

Yes a woman could marry another woman for procreation purposes. Any young lad can do the job of getting her pregnant but the child/ren belongs to the woman who paid the bride price (wonder why bride price is so important to them)

Happy new year and how are you & fam?

On divorce part: if a husband divorced his wife who had 4 kids and the wife remarried, the first husband was no longer the father of the existing children culturally? Were divorced women discriminated against or re-absorbed as 2nd to nth wives?

So the wives made money however spent as they deemed fit as the husbands were primary providers?

Olanna45, was the Umuada not operative in your culture?

This thread is really gonna be great.

** I have always had this stereotype of ancient Igbo wives staying at home and Igbo husbands been monogamous.

baby124:
A female or male child is a child in Yoruba land. No difference! We had women who were leaders and wealthy in their own right! We also had families who were content with only one girl child and she was accorded as much respect as any male child when it comes to inheritance of her father. I know because one of my great grand mother's was an only child of a very rich trader! She also came from a nuclear family! There was no significant obsession with male children as even kingship was rotated amongst families and not the preserve of only one family line. Female children of a king, can have their own future sons also become king! I love my tribe very much for this!!! We are so unique and advanced in our thinking of gender and equality! Lots of tolerance too. Thank God!

Happy new year

Lols at 'I love my tribe'

This your post only deals with value of children. Other parts nko?

Please see my posts to Olanna

oloyede252:
funny thing is that there is very little differences between ancient women of Africa, Rome,Mesopotamia, Athens, Aztec etc. however focusing on Africa there are different cultural society some are matriarch eg Xhosa and ,Khoisan of southern Africa while most societies are patriarch eg Bantu people of western and central Africa...
so in general women are seen as a disposable household general. Lol

There were a lot of differences across tribes.

In Sparta for instance, the women did physical sport to have strong babies & they were in control of the home cos their men were more preoccupied with defending the state. In general, they had better lives than a Athenian or Greek wife for instance.

Mindfulness:
Stillfire or Stillwater is the best pick to give you what you are looking for. I think she has already opened a thread that beautifully debunked the myth that our foremothers were meek sheep with no political and financial power and prowess. Check out her profile (I hope it still exists?).

One book that I can recommend is 'Women in Igbo Life and Thought'.

That's why I quoted her.

How do I get the book? Online? Hard copy? Free?

Happy new year

Olanna45:
1) Yes. The girl child is regarded as not being so important. Like she grows up, gets married its the male child who continues the lineage.

2) yes... They are not allowed, though there might some exceptions in this.

3) They are allowed to own cash crops, but they are not allowed to own yam barns...
Most atimes, the cash crops are given to them by their husbands so they feed their children with its proceeds.

4) yes. 2nd class citizen in the sense that the male child comes first.. His needs are considered to be more important.
As for submission, it is a must. Even if your husband is useless(sorry for the choice of word)

Coming to inheritance, an igbo woman has no inheritance in her father's house. There is a proverb which says "Onye iberibe amaghi na adanne ya bu obia"
A fool do not know that his elder sister is a visitor in their father's house"

Polygamy; A typical igbo man sees polygamy as an achievement. More wives, more sons, more yam barns.

Divorce: it is not allowed. A widow is more accepted in the pre colonial igbo society than a female divorceee... She will be tagged as a bad wife. No one cares to know the reason for the divorce.

Recreation;

The most common form recreation for the pre colonial woman is dancing. Dance groups are formed according to age grades.

Pre marital sex is a no no. If the husband finds out she has being deflowered before marriage, the man has the right to return her to her father's house and collect the bride price back. Such a lady will be stigmatized, the shame will be extended to the father and siblings. The father will portion the whole blame on the wife.


The issue of a woman' marrying' a wife for herself is very common in the pre colonial days and it is still been practiced by some communities today.

A barren woman might decide to marry a young lady, in most cases the ladies being married are those with unwanted pregnancies, divorcees, childless widows.. This lady is allowed to sleep with any man, once she concieves and put to bed, the child bears the name of the woman who married the mother... The father is just a sperm donor. He has no right over the child.

This mostly done by barren women, wonen who had only female children..

I really can't say that some of these practices has been done away with. Families these make the decision on how they wish to treat their girl child. But in a typical igbo community, nothing has changed.

Thanks a lot

I really appreciate your contributions,

So did Igbo women have inheritance in the husband's house? Some ancient women had inheritance in their husband's home though it was not transferrable.

Divorce : That Means divorce was frowned against seriously as if there are no female divorces, then there will be no male divorcees except the men just married more wives when they were tired of the current one.

So there was a lot of twerking then.

Are the women how marry these 'wives' married? Why do they bear the women's surnames?

So the culture is still same....

dingbang:
and I can cuddle too...

*hisses in Chinese*

Olanna45 is really sweating to type, na kiss and cuddle you fit contribute for the thread abi?

Oya shift

dingbang:

Na only kiss you sabi?

Olanna45:
The little i know about the pre colonial igbo women....
They are seen as the second class citizens in the family....They are groomed to help there husbands in farm work as well as to submissive to them. They dare not question his authority....The pre colonial igbo woman is respected by the number of sons she has for her husband...
They are not allowed to take part in decision making process of any kind in the community.

They limited to planting of crops like cocoyam, maize, cassava etc. They are not allowed to plant the yam which is regarded as king of the crops...
They are not allowed to tap palm wine nor climb palm trees.

Thanks aND happy new year.

So for Igbos....

1. There was the drive to have a lot of sons
2. They were not involved in any decision making process
3. They did not plant cash crops or tap palm wine...
4. They were 2nd class citizens and must be submissive

Is the culture still same or have some things been done away with? What about divorce, polygamy, inheritance? How was the honw run? Chores? I hear about an Igbo woman marrying a 'wife' for herself... can you explain? What did the women do for recreation? Pre-martial se.,X, how did a woman find a husband? What is the usual age gap BTW couples? How was issue resolved between the couple etc.

I am not talking on individual level, I am talking cultural.

Happy new year peeps.

I like to read and have read life of women in ancient Greece, Sparta, Rome, Athens etc.

Who can help with lives of women in ancient /pre-colonial Yoruba, Igbo and Hausa tribes?

How did they interact with their husbands, earning power, rights, limitations, inheritance, education, child care, extented family, position in family etc.

It will be interesting learning in details about our foremothers and curious to learn what has changed.

Stillfire; Mmotimo; Cococandy; Byvan03; Ifyalways; Mindfulness etc.

Tell us the tribe you are rep ping and sources if available.

Catalin:
Who resurrected this thread? lolz

I did o!

Happy new year.

SafeDavid:
Why not use Uber.

Uber drivers don't talk or is being dumb part of their qualifications?