₦airaland Forum

Bidam: hehehehehe..kulu kulu temper. Na you dey kill ursef...Just humble yoursef and learn a thing or two..

Spiritual pride and arrogance kills faster than immorality.

No catch bp abeg..make i kuku leave you in your self wallowing and pitiable folly.

Thanks a lot. I'm learning so much about human nature and the propensity to keep hope alive in a deceitful and discredited system because of a futile expectation of profit. These discussions are invaluable I tell you.

You're the one battling pride and arrogance. You've written off Catholics and atheists as if you are God that created them and hold their destinies and eternity in your hands.

I appreciate you leaving me alone. There are times one can do without some particular company. Now is one of such times.

Thank you

Bidam: Gross error.What has Christ got to do with belial.They are your sympathy friends.Friendship with the world is enemity with God.Clear words from scripture. HurtWhat are you talking about

Christ came to save them friend. Maybe you're not aware? Hope you wont hang because of that?

If that is what you call your bio...gudluck with it.
What is this guy saying Do you know me from Adam

You mean you're an unknown entity and you've been shouting about how much the tithe principle is working out? We can see evidence of tithe chopping on Oyedepo, Oyaks, why are u still in an obscure corner without identity on a site owned by an atheist you despise so much despite your tithing even your prayers?

I can assure you that you're a living proof that the tithe principle is a fraud and compete lie?

You are a gross dishonest LIAR. Atheist do not believe in the MIRACLES recorded in scriptures, why will they believe your word here. You can take it up with them in their threads. I can see you conveniently shied away from such threads.

You're trying too hard.

Learn to read before rolling your sleeves for a fight. I said , If Jesus did so today, even atheists will support it because he used it to feed hungry people. This is because They would have seen the miracle happen live and would applaud his desire to feed hungry people. A lot of them have more compassion in their thumb than you have in your entire system.

Keep up your work on the atheists threads. We all see the successful conversions you're having there.

Argument for silence..No one is talking about new suits here.You brought it up.May be you need a new one.Or are you shabby? No one in Christ is poor. If you have a poverty mentality.That's your headache, not mine.

All Hail the unknown big tither talking like a big man. Preach it on, thou owner of a rich mentality.

Who? Your friends? I don't think so.

Are you the spokesman for the Pharisees? Why did you want me to leave them out when we are talking about crooks?

Research ke? I did not even look up your profile.Are you an angel in daytime and a demon in the night season? Abeg tell us o.

So you didn't look up my profile? Good for you then.

Meanwhile, I'm a Spirit led Christian both at daytime and at night. I hope that answers your question?

Ofcos this is where your knowlegde stops. You think the bible is just a book full of historical facts and not biblical truths and principle.

So what's the principle at work when the widow fed Elijah? Could it be the tithe principle again?

may be your pastor is one of the so called crooks, you erroneously typed i am defending.

Crooks take from the needy and add to their own abundance and you've been defending them. If you're sure my pastor is among them, stop defending him. Jesus didn't condone crooks, i don't and you shouldn't too.

Lol @ your fixation on suits.If you need one you can PM me anytime anyday. As for the tithes it is a form of giving amidst so many givings recorded in scriptures.

Really? You sell suits or you work in a garment factory? Hope its a well paying venture?

Is it not illogical and an abberation for you and your friends to call me a tithe collector just because i don't agree with you.

I agree its an aberration of the highest order. Whoever called you a tithe collector is promoting you. You might have the zeal and the crooked mind, but you can't convince a toad to drop a dime.

Your write ups on here prove you lack the basic skills and need a lot of training from the seasoned collectors that abound even on NL. You pay to the crooks, so keep on paying. It suits you perfectly.

You'll do better as a member of the attack force or leader of the devourers. Heard Creflo Dollar wants to start shooting non tithers. Pls go sign up.

What if i agree that a christian should give their All( which ofcos i am comfortable with since everything belongs to HIM).

What sort of name will you and your gang now call me

100percent collector

You?? Comfortable giving all? Pls quit the facade. With your fixation on 10%, its very obvious you can't give even 11% not to talk of all.

Stick to your 10% if that's what you're comfortable with. With Grace comes liberty and God won't be angry with you.

Ebi lyk say..this common sense, no dey too common.

I know you're fighting hard to avoid dipping into your reservoir of vile statements hence this seemingly mild dig. Pls feel free to indulge yourself to any depths of vileness or depravity you need to breathe well again.

Even your friends will attest to your proficiency in that department.

Bidam: Yeah..do correct your band wagon of roman catholics turned atheist.They never seemed to agree with me on this.Another thing the christian faith is not about a game of luck or chance.It's about knowing what to do as you hear from the master. May be you need more insight on that one.Heard one of your friends saying the dispensation of grace wasn't given at that time,since ananias and sapphira were removed out of the equation.

If you have a problem with Catholics or atheists, it will be better to face them directly or report them to God. They must have hurt you so badly.

It is no business of mine,if you exposed yourself to charlatans and in the process are duped by them.

Eyya....keep it up. You're doing well with writing my biography.

But to come here and tell us the Word of God doesn't work as regard tithing in principle is my bane of argument.

Wao!!!! I can see the evidence of tithe all over you. Pls keep it up.

You fail to see the point i made. What if Jesus were to do that now and collect the poor boy meal,your pharisaical atheist friends would have start accusing Jesus and calling him all sort of names, even before the miracle of multiplication occurs.

If Jesus did that today, even atheists would support it because he used it to feed hungry people. He didn't take it, sell it and use the money to buy a new suit. My Lord used it to FEED HUNGRY PEOPLE

Jesus was and is still interested in poor people. You should align with him on this.

Leave the pharisee out of the issue.

Are you their spokesman?

I can understand you being duped by the modern ones hence your bitterness and greivance

Hmm....you're really struggling and sweating with your research on my biography. Its so good to know. Pls keep it up

If Elijah were to tell that to a poor widow now will you rain accusations against him as you are doing on this forum

Elijah shared the widows meal and God multiplied the rest to give the widow and her family unexpected sustenance for 3 years plus. The crooks you defend would have taken all and anointed the woman to go sleep on an empty stomach. Devouring the living of widows and doing it without conscience is what they know how to do best.

And that is all tithers are advocating here.It is all about the Kingdom and knowing the Heart of the Father.

The boy gave up his lunch to feed other hungry people. He didn't tithe neither did he give it to a crook in suit to consume.

He helped others. The Christian thing to always do and very different from what you're preaching

Bidam: Capital nonsense.The Jesus of the bible does not wave a magic wand and food just appeared from thin air to feed the 5000.May be your jesus could that in your dreamland. The Jesus of the bible i knew used 5 loaves and 2 fishes from a young lad to feed them.The principle NEVER changed.

Yeah. Very correct. He took a young boy's lunch and multiplied it to feed not only the boy but 5000 others. A very lucky situation to be in. The same practice the early Christians adopted to ensure every member was catered for. Unfettered and untainted love for the brethren

This is the difference between my Jesus and the Pharisees and of course the charlatans of today. He left the boy better than he met him. The boy still had lunch and helped to feed 5000 others. His case is far better than the widow whose living was devoured by wicked and callous Pharisees ruling the temple.

Wish we all can be like that boy

Msgamble: dat is why i pity 'confused christian', OT is nw a Jewish text or law wen it comes to tithe, buh when arguing with muslim/atheist on religion matter it O.T that u run to.. In N.T some convertees gave their all(nt 1/10th) to Apostles to propagate Gospel or feed poor among us(gentiles) levites are pastor,priest(ppl who do GOD's work), Christ was clear wen he says he has nt come to erase any law(inclding ur so-called jewish law)..whether u paid tithe or nt, it will be deducted from ur earnings either by bar,cinemas,credit card, ur car or GF..that is why some1 who earned #30thou do meaning things with it than 250k earner

@the bolded

The same worn out empty threats used to cajole and force naive Christians to part with their cash.

Do you have a car? Do you service it? If you do, u have a devourer.

Does PHCN take light in your area forcing you to buy fuel for your gen? That is a devourer.

Even the potholes on the road to your house or office is a devourer so most likely, your tithe no dey complete.

I go to the cinema once in a while and have fun with my family, I guess that qualifies as devourer right?

My bro, the tithe tactics have changed. Malachi has been jettisoned. The tithe mongers now employ Abram's tithe of war spoils. Maybe you should ask them to bring u up to speed.

This your post doesn't cut it at all

mimicue: Malachi 3:8-10 (blessings promised to those who pay tithe)

But sis, see what you wrote earlier. Mal 3:8-10 says nothing about what you wrote below.

mimicue: Paying tithing is a sacred privilege. When we pay tithing we show gratitude for all that God has given us and return to Him a portion of what we have received

Kindly show any verse in scriptures that supports all you wrote in that quote.

Thanks

mimicue: Paying tithing is a sacred privilege. When we pay tithing we show gratitude for all that God has given us and return to Him a portion of what we have received

Dear sis, any bible verse to support the above assertion?

pickabeau1: Jesus commended the poor widow who gave her all willingly as led rather than coerced....
I dont know why you are calling others athesists for expounding a basic truth..

He owns the cattle on the hills
If He were hungered, he will not tell you
He wants a contrite heart... not one of compulsion

You're right bro.

Jesus commended the widow, its very different from encouraging a destitute to give all her living.

He commended her sense of sacrifice because it showed her as someone sold out to things of God but he would have shaken his head at the temple rulers whose consciences were so dead they could still collect from that poor woman to support their sham caricature of adherence to Mosaic law.

See what he said about them just before this generous daughter of Abraham brought all her living

Mark 12:38-40
'And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, [39] And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: [40] Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation. '

He commended her, he wouldn't have encouraged her to do it. The Jesus of the bible would have fed her instead because that's what our Lord does. He gives to the needy not take from them

Msgamble: hw xactly is ur lyf better? If u fail to deduct tithe from ur income 1-way or d other it will b deducted either by ur GF,bar or illness..bware, Abraham,David,Solomon etc all pays tithe even some convert in N.T gave their all(property n blongings) to Apostle for Evangelising(cos Apostle moves from one state to another), common u couldn't give 1/10th, i pity u

My bro, obviously these devourers you listed above dey fear people like me I believe for reasons below

I don't keep GF's; God blessed me with a very beautiful and intelligent wife who is like an angel

My wife is very fruitful in every sense of the word.

I don't fall sick despite the fact that I'm a field engineer unlike when I was tithing and working in the bank. Used to take painkillers practically everyday, malaria therapy practically every forthnite, Cattarh regularly. Now sound health is like an entitlement.

My colleague on the other hand who is a tither and 'seed sower' sleeps with call girls whenever we come to the field, suffers from high BP for which our company spends dearly to manage for him etc.

Even those disciples who gave all in acts suffered untold deprivations, hunger and persecution afterwards necessitating gentile Christians to make contributions for them. They gave out of love; not to chase 'devourers'

My bro, tithing has no effect on all those things you listed. Discipline will keep you away from womanising and favour of God keep you from lack.

God bless you

aManFromMars: Even me sef shock o.. thank God!!!!

See brother Muskee thanking God with me o

The Lord is indeed good

Wish you the best bro

joe4christ: I was once a committed tither, but my eyes later seen ''we'en'' now i dont, and i've never been so blessed and favoured.
Ironically i see lots of people who do tithe faithfully living in financial hardship, that actually prompted me to have a second look at the subject, and discovered it is a scam...

Is this the same joe4christ

Thank God for you o and may he continually bless and enrich you as you serve him in true liberty of spirit and purpose.

God bless and keep you operating in the light of the truth of his word. Amen

Mark Miwerds: What 'The Two Tithing Systems" is, is pure manipulation by a deceitful minister.

He claims those two systems are

1. Abram's tithe before the Law
2. The tithe under the Law.

He says we are not under the Mosaic Law, but that we MUST tithe in order to honour God and receive "the blessing" from God. That, my friends, is pure manipulation. We're not under the Law, but must tithe in order to be blessed?

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Creflo, and those who preach the same manipulative message that he preaches, worships God in vain. They teach commandments of man as if they are doctrines of God. And they are so convincing with their smooth words and fair speeches that the unlearned and ignorant masses swallow the bait... hook, line and sinker and then run with it.

Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

With his much fair speech, Creflo causes his congregation to yield; with the flattering of his lips, he forces them to believe his deceptive and erroneous doctrine.

This means his pillar of support is Abraham's tithe unlike Oyaks who uses Mosaic tithe of Malachi.

Tithe is NOT a command - gospel according to Creflo Dollar

Tithe is a command and obligation - gospel according to Chris Oyakhilome

I wonder which of the 2 versions the tithe promoters here would throw their weight behind? Maybe they'll be scared to choose so as not to be caught in their own web.

@Mark, i commend you for the time you spent listening to the man who intends killing non tithers. He's a crook and is not worth it in my opinion.

Thank God almighty for his mercies.

DR PYGRU: Dr Pygru is bored

Eyaaa....pele

I feel you bro. Pls don't stop. I'm enjoying the trip through NL past and learning more about those who made this forum thick before i got here.

Also don't worry, Christmas is coming. Your boredom will be given a quit notice i'm sure

cheers

Hmmm......this tithe scam matter, it have tay indeed

The journey didn't start today. Thank God for his mercies.

Though who is DR PYGRU and why is he interested in resurrecting old threads?

Just curious o

OLAADEGBU: And don't forget to learn the basic principles of the Kingdom.

No problem

OLAADEGBU: And when you bring up that phrase in future posts make sure you quote it in its proper context.

Now you talk of context abi? When you jumped on the Christemmbassey bashing train, did you think of the context of his OP?

Don't worry, I'll quote it in context whenever I do. I am too refined and matured to engage in your underhand tactics

Enigma: You cannot answer the question! What is more, you were never going to answer the question. I think that is pretty clear.

Again, I say now the world knows that you and your new chief theologian teach that non-tithers should be shot dead (but for the blood of Jesus) and that it is impossible for a person who tithes properly to go to hell!

Please NOTE that I will always shove this in your face; if you guys like call it "spamming" just as with Oyaks own. (In fact later we will dig up the one of the head honcho "Daddy G.O." too)

God bless you jare my dear brother. I discovered recently that its no use trying to make them see reason so I no longer bother myself.

However, their own words will always trip them for instance you should read up there where he wrote that Tithes and offerings are not Christian doctrines. I expect him to deny later when he's given it thought.

Then their favourite gods of men are not helping the matter with the various nonsense we are getting from them on this tithe issue.

I will always bring it to their remembrance

Enigma: ^^ It's a pity. Of course I knew you would dodge. NID

It is terrible to be so unprincipled --- and now your Dollar man friend has let you down.

It is truly pathetic and you have proven to be a complete let down.

Adios!

My bro, I was actually surprised you expected him to display any honesty on this issue.

The truth is that he didn't know that Creflo Dollar was also a terrorist who won't hesitate to kill to collect tithes. If he knew, sure he wouldn't have used him as support.

Now that it backfired, the only thing to do is avoidance. I can assure you he'll be more circumspect when picking tithe partners henceforth.

OLAADEGBU: You need to start from the basics of the doctrines of Christ before you can begin to discern between truth and lies.

Hmm....tell me more my friend

OLAADEGBU: You can come back to yarn the moment you can differentiate between Bible doctrines and Kingdom principles.

You won't kill us on NL. Bible doctrines, kingdom principles, inspiration from atheists, Maybe I should add extra biblical revelations

You're too much. Keep up the charade friend. I'll always be ready to blow your lies into the open.

OLAADEGBU: Tithes and Offerings are not considered to be Christian doctrines but Kingdom principles for children of God.

Really? So Tithe is not Christian after all? Thank God you clarified it. Kindly tell others so they stop calling it Christian doctrine.

What about sabbath, circumcision and burnt offerings? Are they not kingdom principles too?

Those principles will work for atheists and pagans if they put it to use.

Hmm....that must be the principle Bill Gates, Warren Buffet etc live by that make them remain the worlds richest. Maybe you'll be kind to tell us the pastor that receives their tithes.

So it was always about the money? Would have been nice if you had been honest about this all along. You didnt need to cloak it as Christian.

Though i wonder why no Christian has been able to get to that height of riches? Maybe we need to go ask the atheists how they get better results from our God.

Don't be a Pecksniffian.

You're the Pecksniffian my friend. Abuse atheists on one thread, then come use them as defence and inspiration on this thread. In fact you're a super Pecksniffian.

OLAADEGBU: Thanks for bringing up the truth in references quoted above. I had earlier used a quote from an atheist on this thread to buttress my point.

We are talking about tithe a supposed doctrine for Christians and bros is talking of quoting atheists.

What else do atheists, pagans or thieves have to say on other Christian doctrines? Maybe Shakespeare or Obama could help us on some other Christian doctrines we are not agreed about?

Keep clutching at straws and keep running to atheists and thieves for revelation because of tithes.

Very pathetic indeed.

Image123: Titus 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 1:13 THIS WITNESS IS TRUE. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Acts 17:23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

This two passages show Paul quoting pagans and accepting wht they said as truth. i'm sure this pagans had differing views and opinions to that of Paul on different matters. One may even quote a secular personality like say Shakespere, Sepp Blatter, Obama etc if what they said is right. There is no need to promote sectarianism or gangsterism.
We cannot all have the same views and understanding on any particular matter.

What exactly was he trying to teach Timothy there? was it doctrine or he was advising him on how to relate to crooks? Paul didn't quote pagans on matter of doctrine my dear image. There's a very big difference and it's surprising you can't see it. Muslims taught me in school as did pagans. I didn't receive matters pertaining to the grace of God from them. Maybe you did.

Can we ask Muslims how they do zakat too so we can get more ideas on the tithe matter? Since it's a form of tithe for them too? pls stop this ridiculous ideas.

Creflo Dollar is a liar and a thief judging from what he said in that video and he's totally unfit to teach any Christian on matters of the gospel of Christ but then 'Tithing for Christians' is not a doctrine of the grace of God so you and others can keep on taking inspirations on it from him. He's the perfect model for the fraud called 'tithing in Christianity'.

Maybe we just beg the Nigerian Army to supply guns to churches so they can start cleansing the land of non-tithers.

Enigma: Bros, I am telling you the truth that each time my mind goes back to remembering that our friends are using Creflo Dollar in that way on this thread, I literally shake my head -- even in my privacy!

They don't care o. If they could prove the devil tithed before he became the god of this age, they'll reference him as evidence of what tithes can do for somebody.

@Enigma,

Thanks jare for the transcript and the video. You just gave me another reference for my archives. I'll use it as a reminder for the tithe mongers alongside Oyaks masterpiece that has proved useful in recent times.

Evil men indeed and somebody will come here and start lying about a deceitful principle.

I guess the tithe promoters here will agree wholeheartedly with this. Bunch of lies and liars

Image123: By "Don't post false information on Nairaland.", the context is so clear you do not have to twist it to mean that divergent views are false information. Be matured in understanding, that is a new testament command i think. The rule means like do not post that the president has resigned, or that somebody died who is alive, or that a company is recruiting if it is not, for instance. By your twist, i can also claim that you are posting false information since your view on giving does not align with mine. Every one with a different view on the forum would say that the opposing view is false information. That is mischievous and childish. it is clear you are spamming the forum and should correct yourself. posting the same content many times is regarded as spamming.

Your tithe thesis is a pack of lies and rightly described as such. I'll keep bringing Oyaks devotional to your remembrance whenever i suspect you're forgetting what Tithe really is.

Thank you. Others may also be confused in future but thanks for clarifying. i saw the improvement on the other thread too, you are very kind.

I'm Happy for you

Oh, that? Malachi mentions ALL the tithe. You should not bamboozle us to think Malachi limits it. Bring ye ALL the tithe, not "Bring ye strictly the tithe according to the law only"

Malachi said all 'THE' tithe which indicates a definite article. the writer was referring to a specific thing well known to his audience. So what is 'THE' Tithe Malachi was referring to? Spoils of war? Farm produce? Proceeds of corruption? What is 'THE' tithe he was referring to?

If you need help from a dictionary to define 'THE', i could oblige you

Do you have no capabilities to tell lies?

wait until i do. Then you can point it out

He said this? i must have missed it.

As you always conveniently miss the truth even when its staring you in the face

Are you advicing me or commanding me? Sorry, i lost the context.

very convenient again. Pls Keep on loosing it

Oh, so you saw the inconsistency in your deductions? BTW, it is not unchristian to take directions from men of God. See this for instance.
1Co 16:1 As to the collection for God's people, what I have directed the Churches of Galatia to do, you must do also.
Weymouth New testament.
Churches of Galatia and Corinth took directions from a man of God.
Tithe cannot be strictly of the law of Moses if people gave tithe before Moses' father was born. How do you continually manage not to see this plain truth?

So what did your man Of God command you to do bro? submit 10% so he can help you be at peace with God? We're talking of Scriptures penned by the apostle to the Gentiles and you are trying to compare him to your thieving pastors of today?

Whenever your pastor's words appear in scripture, bring his commands to me so i can obey them

Keep pretending not to know there is a difference between what Abraham paid as tithe and the charade you do today. Abraham gave to Melchizedek, whom do you give yours to today? Go ahead and make fun of yourself by saying pastors in the order of Melchizedek. I've read that somewhere before.

Thought you said that tithe has nothing to do with Abraham? Now, it is that it is once that tithe had something to do with Abraham? Its hazy, sorry.

Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Abraham gave tithes of all, malachi says Bring all the tithe. You cannot shout that away.

Abraham gave tithes of ALL spoils of war, non from his farm. Malachi asked for God's holy tithe of all Land produce as prescribed in Lev 27. Tell me you still don't know there is a difference?

did Abraham follow a law when he tithed? Did jacob follow a law? Why must it be my own that you insist that i must follow a law?

Good. So you Agree Abraham had liberty to do or not to do? You also agree Jacob's was a voluntary vow he made himself to do abi and no evidence that he even did?

Pls IMAGE123, Go ahead and do with your funds as you like. I heard Rockefeller or one other rich man even gave 90%. Pls you can even copy his style or do as you deem fit. Its your prerogative but don't come to NL and preach it as Christian doctrine. Also tell your friends on NL this truth so we can stop these arguments

That is what everybody has been telling you for the past 4 years

i didn't say that non tithers/antitithers do not give. i said that you(Candour) do not encourage poor people giving ALL their savings to church, like the poor widow did in Mark 12v44.

Good you clarified the bolded. Really i don't encourage poor people to give all their savings like the poor widow. If they insist, it's theirs so i wont stop them. i'll commend their sense of sacrifice but i wont encourage them to do it.

Only a wicked person will encourage such a disadvantaged person to put into a treasury administered by religious thieves and rogues like the rulers of the Jerusalem temple.

My context was very clear. i showed you where a man of God mandated people to give. he said they MUST. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. you must put aside some money, You'd probably have a fit if you heard this live.

I wont have a fit my dear. I'll give all i have because it's for a very noble cause. To feed hungry and destitute saints at Jerusalem. Only a wicked man will refuse to give to such a cause when he obviously can give. Also because the apostle who mouthed that is a VERY CREDIBLE WITNESS of the gospel, i wont even question it. He's very much different from the charlatans you run after today.

1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
Preach the whole truth please. Any literate understands this without twist.

How does proportion in that verse become tithe? i really need you tell me how proportion became 10%

It is the offerings of God. It belongs to God, not to pharisees. And God collected it from a widow. he had no problem with empathy and selflessness. In fact, He commended the act.

That is the lie crooks in the pulpit tell people to get their money and use it for grandiose and immoral living.

God didn't collect it from her, the temple rulers did. That she cast it into temple treasury doesn't mean God collected it. God isn't cruel. He doesn't collect the little the poor has, rather he feeds the poor but thieves will devour the entire living of widows.

Jesus didn't collect from the multitude, he fed them instead. It's those that had means that sustained Jesus, NOT THE POOR

The Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that. i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel. There is NOTHING wrong in fulfilling all righteousness. Do not trifle it as "just". Fulfilling all righteousness is NOT what pharisees do, it is what Jesus did. And we ought to walk even as He walked.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
It's sobering that you do not see this.

He said it once at baptism to encourage John not to feel unworthy to baptize him, not to make 'fulfilling all righteousness' our christian manual. I expected you to see this

It's the pharisees that run their religious lives just to fulfill all righteousness. I'm a Christian. I'm spirit led. I don't do things just to fulfill all righteousness. If you do, good luck with that

You learnt from my own lips that i've been trying to win arguments for over four years?

You said you've been at this discussions for over 4 years despite all the truth you've been shown. What else would that be other than trying to win an argument?

What is the 10% threshold, is that some new theological phrase. Why bring up a condition that was never there? i did not say that you find it difficult to give to God. i said that if what the widow did(giving ALL her living 100%) is a type of what you do in church, you would not be so bitter about giving 10% in church. It makes no sense to care less about giving 100% and be so tight about giving the tithe.
This is not rating God, this is not rating love for God.

Tell me what Tithe as you preach it and as Oyaks wrote is if not a CONDITION and OBLIGATION? If you truly believe we are not bound by any particular percentage, then what is this discussion for?

A Christian can give 100% to a worthy cause if the spirit leads him to. He shouldn't give a dime in response to a so called law preached by a crook in suit. If he does, he's serving men not God.

There is nothing wrong with them too.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

So pls preach your tithe as you would sabbath, burnt offerings or circumcision today. Abraham did at least three of them and God even observed sabbath himself.

i still do not get you. What if i have a vow to drop into the bag every sunday? What is wrong with that? Why should a vow be different from what one puts into the bag every sunday? Is it so difficult to make a vow to put something into the bag every sunday?
Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth
Freewill giving is itself a command in the law of Moses, but we do it still today. God loves us when we give freewill.

If you make a vow concerning what you give every sunday, its your choice. Other Christians don't make a vow for their givings every sunday, let them be.

You brought in that verse to confuse the issue. It has no relevance to what we are discussing here.

Reuben was cursed because of his depraved act of sleeping with his father's concubine. He wasnt cursed because he was first born.

This so called curse on first born is just superstition. Being a first born child comes with plenty pressure. You're meant to be a guiding light to your siblings, You're expected to start earning money fast to assist the family, marry first etc. all these expectations put pressure on firstborns and this has been translated to mean a curse that you need deliverance from.

I know plenty firstborns who succeed nicely in life despite their humble beginnings. Olorogun Michael Ibru is an example and its surely not because he did one deliverance or whatever. Just by dint of hard work, he prospered greatly and helped all his younger brothers climb the ladder of huge success. I have plenty other examples not so well known that i know.

When you even analyze the issue very well, you find it's only poor, illiterate and disadvantage families that suffer more from this so called curses. Will the first born of Sanusi, Fashola or Ameachi be bothered with curses on first born? Is it that the curse dey fear these men?

Pls let us put our hands and mind to make it in life and we will. Every human has the ingredient to succeed in him or her no matter the disadvantage you might have. Let us make the decision to succeed and by God's grace we will, whether we are first born or last born.

Cheers bro

Image123: Deeper life hardly 'associates' with anybody, not just Creflo. The point is the message being preached. If Creflo says that Jesus is risen, or that God is good, i believe the Deeper Life supports that, as it is truth. Stop all this attempt at divisions and face the message, not Ola or Creflo or Deeper. Its the same way you guys tied to focus on pastor Chris instead of what he was saying.

My dear, you can see i stayed out until DrummaBoy wrote that and knowing folks on NL, it will be another avenue to detract from the matter because it will be misconstrued as an attack on DLBC that is not a business center like most other so called 'churches'

So i had to step in to make the clarification before Kumuyi gets roped in together with the crooks out rightly making merchandise of God's people. He sure isn't one of them business men.

Good you know DLBC maintains exclusivity.

DrummaBoy: The message on tithing is Fraud.

Creflo Dollar has no credibility.

And the Deeper Life Church, will naturally not associate with him, except of course when it comes to tithing.

So, we return to the words of the Atheist "When it comes to money, every man's religion is the same".

The day the religion you practice does not make money its god, that day you have found the true Christ. That is why I reffered you to the words of Jesus where he quoted Isaiah: all religion are taught by men and upheld by money; so they are all the same. True Christianity transcends money and that is why true Christianity must say no to tithing.

Correction @ the bolded. DLBC will NEVER associate with Creflo as DLBC does not promote tithe the way its being done here. The OP is on his own mission and he's associating with whomever he will strictly on his own. He doesn't have DLBC's mandate as has been proved before on this forum so pls let's keep them apart.

@DrummaBoy, i trust you understand. Thanks

Bidam: Like i said, pls feel free and reduce the pent up feelings you have on tithers.It will do your health a world of good.

nice you are even laughing. I thought you were rolling up your sleeves for a fight?

Good for you if you've calmed down now.

Bidam: Oh! so you never knew that when you were busy spamming pastor chris msg all over nairaland abi? HYPOCRITE

You obviously have a lot in your reservoir, pls let it all out so you can be at peace.

'impression without expression will lead you to depression' so pls help yourself and be free.

Lemme finish with emmanuel bassey, my next search light will be on you..hypocrite.

Like i said, pls feel free and reduce the pent up feelings you have. It will do your health a world of good

Image123: By "Don't post false information on Nairaland.", the context is so clear you do not have to twist it to mean that divergent views are false information. Be matured in understanding, that is a new testament command i think. The rule means like do not post that the president has resigned, or that somebody died who is alive, or that a company is recruiting if it is not, for instance. By your twist, i can also claim that you are posting false information since your view on giving does not align with mine. Every one with a different view on the forum would say that the opposing view is false information. That is mischievous and childish. it is clear you are spamming the forum and should correct yourself. posting the same content many times is regarded as spamming.

False information is false information and your tithe thesis constitutes a false information and i will call you out on it whenever i chose. Keep calling it spamming. I know you hate the idea that Oyaks penned that devotional. Its not my fault he did bro. Go teach him Abrahamic tithe so he can be up to speed.

If you think he lied, be bold enough to say it.

its better as you clarified yourself. When someone refers to another as "a much beloved and respected pastor.", the message being sent is that of personal respect and love. It would be odd for instance for me to refer to Guru maraji, T Joshua, or Bin Laden as much beloved and respected. These people also have lots of followers and apologists, but one may be sending a confusing signal. Anyway, good that you made yourself clearer.

You must be the only one who tripped over that statement. i'm surprised you actually think i have plenty affection for him. However it cost me nothing to clarify it.

I've noted your objection anyway and will always clarify this whenever i have cause to quote Oyaks again so as not to confuse you.

What is that thing you have being telling me for a long time again?

That tithing referenced by Malachi is strictly of the law

Does pastor Chris saying something make it truth?

Of course not. He has the capabilities to tell lies too. I'm happy you know this and are not carried away.

If yes, why are you being selective with this truth?

He spoke the truth about Tithe as being of the law. A truth you have stubbornly closed your eyes to.

According to you, pastor Chris says that tithing is compulsory, therefore that proves that tithing is compulsory.

Mosaic law said tithing is compulsory just like sabbath(Saturday) and circumcision. Malachi re-emphasized that tithing is compulsory and Oyaks rightfully agreed. However it's not for me because i am not a disciple of Mosaic law. If you say it's for you, then be honest about it and call it what it is. A LAW OF MOSES not some FRAUDULENT PRINCIPLE. Also be honest enough to practice it as stipulated in Num 18:21-32, Deut 14:22-29. If you refuse to, you're subtracting from the law.

pastor Chris says that you should bring your tithes, but that does not prove that you should bring your tithe.
Do you by chance see the inconsistency in your deductions?

You're the one that takes directions from Oyaks and other MOG, i don't. i'm only using his devotional to show you're not in tandem with his thought and his write up is consistent with biblical tithe you claim to follow.

TITHE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, its strictly of the law of Moses. I just clarified my stand incase you've not hear me say it before

How can anyone say that tithe has nothing to do with Abraham when the Bible clearly says that Abraham gave tithes?

Abraham gave tithes ONCE [/b]from spoils of war to physical Melchizedek. Is this the pattern you follow?

The tithe mentioned in Malachi has [b]NOTHING to do with Abraham. It's strictly Mosaic and Oyaks was right on that.

Oh, but you want us to follow a law when we give the tithe? When folks talk about principle and tithing, it seems this quoted portion of your thinking is dormant?

Tithing is a law and since you want to follow the law, then be honest enough to follow it the way God asked Moses to institute it.

Not sure i need all this preaching, thanks.

You're welcome. Just refrain from saying non tithers don't give. Its an untrue statement. That's what i tried to point out to you.

1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
Preach the whole truth please. Any literate understands this without twist.

thank God for the bolded portion you did yourself, you can see it was STRICTLY for the POOR SAINTS. not some overfed pastor or Bishop. You can also see there is nothing called Tithe there? No matter how you twist it, proportion as used there means relative to what you earn. Not your Mosaic 10%. Like Zikkyy said above, it takes illiteracy to interpret proportion as strictly 10%

Are you okay with a poor widow in Winners Chapel for instance, that gives all her life's savings of about 28,000 into the offering box/bag?
she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

If its her decision to do so, why not? its hers giving to her by God and the administration of it is strictly her prerogative. As long as you don't cajole her or guilt her into doing so.

Though a pastor or Bishop that will collect such from a widow definitely has a problem with empathy and selflessness. The rulers of the Temple who collect such are Pharisees that is what Pharisees do and why Christ said they devour widows houses. Obviously MOG who do so today are no better than the greedy and covetous pharisees.

Infact the 3 times this widow's episode is mentioned in the bible, Christ had just finished berating the Pharisees and scribes for their wickedness in devouring the living of widows before he saw her bring the contribution. So don't think it was a kind reflection on so called religious leaders. infact it was an indictment on callous people.

BTW, why do you find it so wrong for a christian to give or do anything to fulfill all righteousness? You said "That is what pharisees do". This is surprising as the Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that.
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel.

Christ spoke that in respect of his baptism by John. It was specific. Must you force it into monetary considerations? If i am to follow your logic, everything we do in Christendom must be just to fulfill all righteousness abi? after all we'll be in perfect harmony with Christ? pls learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Candour, people are actually reading what you say, and so is God. You cannot just afford to say things just to shine or get likes or win arguments. If you have nothing edifying or true or honest to say, it is better to keep quiet or ignore us or pray for us. than to come showboat before people with itching ears.

If you wish to get likes for your post, start a campaign. i too would start clicking like for you. Likes on my post wont make me more righteous with God or cater for my needs so it's not a consideration. You're the one trying to win arguments and from your own lips, i learnt you've been at it for over 4 years. Tithe is of the law. be bold enough to accept this truth. all the MOG you respect and love admit to this truth. If you dont agree with them, be bold enough to say so.

Not sure i need all this preaching, i have no idea what you are trying to say. What is the 10% threshold, is that some new theological phrase. Why bring up a condition that was never there? Who here has rated God, or rated his righteous causes?

You're the one rating love for God at 10% or what did you mean by saying i find it difficult to give to God because i don't subscribe to your 10% threshold. yeah there, i said it again.

This is back to square one. tithing is not the law of Moses. It was practiced before Moses' father was born.

As was Sabbath, circumcision and animal sacrifices which you mercifully don't subscribe to today.

i do not understand. Are you saying that if i make a vow freely, i cannot drop it into the collection bag? Read this again for context.
Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

stop trying to be smart. See the bolded portion. is your vow the same thing you drop into the bag every sunday? A vow is different from what you put into the bag every sunday. don't come here and pretend not to know there is a difference between a VOW and your sunday collections. This shouldn't be too difficult to be honest about na or is it?