₦airaland Forum

Wilgrea7:
yes.. kinda.. something like that of 0aroloye... but different from his

It's a lie

spacetacular:
As suspected i knew you would look for wriggle space. I asked you to watch it so you would know that your so called medical journals containing 38 cases cannot hold a light to the hundreds of unrecorded autoresuscitations that occur worldwide and go unrecorded. No single medical practitioner in any part of the world large or small who can explain it. It is an impossible medical occurrence. We are not talking about diseases sir we are talking about the dead coming back spontaneously without any medical assistance at the time of revival.

Regarding the others you term as people being proactive, know that God uses people to carry out his purpose. Man has the ability to act but in such situations as emergencies which seems like all hope is lost, they act under Gods unseen and sometimes unrealized guidance. They only realize it after everything has ended and they begin to playback the entire scenario. I have seen this ever so often.

Was the voice the officers heard from the car pulled from the river imagined? The woman was long dead but all the officers heard the same voice shouting out the same thing from inside the sunken, damaged car. Did they all imagine the same thing? in the other video was the man in Priestly apparel who appeared on the scene of the car crash out of nowhere to assist and anoint and pray for the trapped young lady also imagined? Especially since they all heard him and interacted with him and saw him and heard him say their tools could now work and moments later a more equipped fire truck arrived but immediately after she was rescued he was nowhere to be found and all 15 churches in that area had no record of anyone like that. Neither did this man appear on over 70 pictures taken during the entire rescue of which he was part of yet the police men, the fire rescue crew all said he was there.

Mysteries exist and they often come to us in form of miracles. Unable to be explained yet real.

My team has been called to a crash site with a mother and her 2 kids being the occupants of the vehicle. The mother and one of the daughters were unconscious and still in the car. We got them out and strapped down ready to be transported when a man came out from the woods in front of us pointed into a line of trees and said we should save his daughter. We thought it was another incident and Mattie went downhill into the line of trees and there was this 13yr old girl with a broken leg and fractured collar bone but conscious. she said her mom and sister were in an accident and she was thrown from the vehicle downhill and we did not know this. We thought the vehicle only had the woman and 1 daughter and since both were unconscious we couldnt get any further info from them.

Mattie called for me and as i was going downhill another team of paramedics arrived and they assisted in bringing her up but when we got back up to the road the man who yelled save my daughter was gone. We later learned that the father of the girls died 4 months prior to this incident and with the picture we were shown we identified him as the same man who told us to save his daughter. We had to tell the doctors what happened when we dropped them off and they told the woman when she came to thats how we got the follow up information.

It's not about wiggle space, You've further gone on to buttress my point point that autoresuscitations are under reported, hundreds you say. Something that happens that often can't really be called a mystery now, would it? You believe no single medical practitioner can explain it, let me ask you this simple question, have you researched the phenomenon? Read what other doctors and authors have to say about it?
I've read about cases of spontaneous remission of cancers, I've read about immunity to HIV in Ugandans (a medical impossibility) but through research, I was able to get some answers to my questions. When was the last time you tried researching a case you believed was a mystery and tried finding answers or are you just comfortable with labelling it a mystery?
I sense you're comfortable with labelling things that you don't understand a mystery, if you and the doctors around you don't have a clue, broaden your search, the internet has made the world a small place, you can read articles by doctors all over the world.
According to where I received my medical training and the doctors I've been privileged enough to work with, miracle/mystery is not an explanation. You have to go and research and read and get one.

As for what you and Mattie saw, I've got a plausible explanation for that, but that's not the purpose of this thread, we are dealing with medicine strictly.


And as for the schizophrenic fella in the video, let me keep my thoughts, the religious ones will come for my head too.

akintom:
I particularly wondered why you went that long yesterday, with a paramedic, who is obviously superficial, as far as basic medical science is concerned, talk less about clinical science.

I will not be surprised, if this crusading paramedic, turns out a mere charlatan.

I have no issue with anyone, no matter their profession in the medical world, I'm happy to engage anyone, but the outburst to the simple question was just something I didn't expect from her. It's cool though. Learnt my lessons.

spacetacular:
I suggest you take a look at the first video out of the 4 i posted. It would interest you.

I watched the first video. The only one that comes close to a miracle is the one of the baby. Pulling people out of burning cars isn't a miracle, it's people being proactive. They should have just prayed and watch them burn to death.
Waking up from coma is nothing new all in medical journals.
Coding for 45 minutes, we already covered that, same with the black old man.
Stop calling them mysteries and miracles, pick up books, someone must have captured it happening more than once and offered an explanation.
If everyone called every little a miracle/mystery I'm sure we won't have come up with our "evidence based medicine" modalities.
Let me give you an example, people who reared cows were found to be immune to smallpox. If the rest of the world was just small minded and chalked it up to mystery/miracle, smallpox would still be killing millions of people till today. But, no, it led them to the development of a vaccine.

I'll pass on this one, before the medics and paramedics come for my head. It's shameful that scientists are lending credence to this charade. Whatever happened to evidence based medicine?
Mental slavery at its finest.

KingEbukaNaija:
But if the complaints cease immediately after applying these things doesn't it mean something ? Doesn't it mean that science could be wrong about it ? Science isn't dogma remember ?

They never complained to a doctor, they self medicated and confirmed the efficacy of whatever cream themselves. Confirmation bias if you will.
There's no study to confirm the efficacy of those creams, because people hardly even know the active agent in the cream. It could be petroleum jelly for all we know. So, no scientific backing to vaginal tightening creams.
But if it makes a women feel that she's tighter down there, I'm not going to take that away from here. That would be cruel.

KingEbukaNaija:
So its more like placebo ? The women believe it tightens their vaginas and it just happens . No medical proof ?

No placebo effect. It doesn't tighten anything. They just tell themselves that the cream is tightening down there and they just believe. Same like people eating soursop to cure cancer, they believe it's working, that's all, belief. Nothing to practically show that it's actually working.

spacetacular:
Your last question shows me clearly that you are not a medical practitioner. How on earth would you even ask me about how we were able to accurately diagnose pneumothorax? You asking a paramedic how he or she got to accurately assess a pneumothorax is outrageously ridiculous and it shows you and I are not speaking the same language sir.

When you meet an accident victim with head and chest injuries and deep puncture wounds to his chest region and head that causes tension pneumothorax as air passes through those puncture wounds to crowd the abdominal region and stifling the lungs and if the lungs are punctured then air passes in and also passes out so the lungs suffer pressure loss and tension pneumothorax is the result. This patient had his chest region punctured in numerous places and his lungs too. At first assessment the surgeons at Lewisham observed the same thing and first used staples to close him up before attempts at resuscitation began. Whenever we bring in anyone we are expected to make a quick medical report as first Medical responders in order to aid the doctors accurately render further help. We cannot and must not get it wrong or that would be the end of it.

This is why we are different from your regular medical people. We work like soldiers on the battlefield who need to make rapid on the spot assessments and respond accordingly that's why our universal focus as emergency personnel is high speed in everything we do because a minute delay could be the reason you live or die.

There is no medical journal that can explain away a mystery. What's unknown is unknown and would remain so until it is observed and seen to respond to a particular medical process and work then it moves from being unknown to known. But for now your desire to be fixated on what you think is an explanation is absurd to say the least sir.

This your outburst was not needed at all, you could have simply said the patient had pneumothorax based on the signs you listed, the penetrating chest injury and whatnot. I'm not here to compare degrees with you, like someone already pointed out, it has degenerated to a dick measuring contest and I'm not for that.
I can point out errors in your pneumothorax explanation, but that's not the aim of this discussion.

As for your last submission, medical journals have given explanations, that have been peer reviewed and published. You can bury your head in the sand, no one would begrudge you that, that's your own cup of tea. You can keep on calling it a mystery if it makes you sleep well at night and gives you motivation to do your job as a paramedic. Those who know have accepted.
Better still like I've been telling you, publish your findings, medicine could do with a counter opinion, who knows, you might win a Nobel
Good night.

bennyann:
You mean there are no differences between those who have multiple sex partners and those who don't?

In a healthy individual, the answer is an emphatic yes.

KingEbukasBlog:
Why then do married men complain about their wives' looseness after childbirth ? Why do women have vagina tightening cream and exercises like keigling or something like that

bennyann:
Doc, are you sure about that cos I've heard the opposite? Especially for ladies that welcome the introduction of the different sizes of manhood

Kegel is for the pelvic floor, not the vagina.
The men have this erroneous belief that vagina gets loose after childbirth. It is not a proven medical fact, so many people sell tightening creams to prey on this false belief. Vagina tightening cream is not a thing in medicine.
They are all myths as far as medicine is concerned. The vagina is a muscle, it expands and contracts back.
An analogy is the womb, it is a muscle. At pregnancy, it expands, after delivery, it gradually goes back to size, of course there will be slight battle scars, but it doesn't become loose.

KingEbukasBlog:


I get your point sha . But here are 2 reasons I think why promiscuity is deplored in women


1. Men have greater sexual desire than women ( though its arguable nowadays ) . So it is thought to be reasonable if the man is lecherous not the woman

2. The vagina loses its tightness when ploughed through innumerable times . And sex now gets less pleasurable for the man as it is for the woman

The vagina is a muscle that can contract and relax to accommodate any exertion. It is not an elastic band that can lose tightness.

hopefulLandlord:
what's the purpose of this thread

Cuz it appears to me that its descended into dick measuring contest about who knows about medicine more than the other

The purpose was to provide a scientific explanation to "coming back from the dead", unfortunately some scientists prefer it remains a mystery.

spacetacular:
You need to first establish what autoresuscitation is sir. It's automatic and with no external assistance at the time of resuscitation. Can a person with pneumothorax be able to breath unaided? Without a medical ventilator it's impossible. This bloke came back alive breathing unaided. We met him dead at the scene. Such sights are not imaginable with 2 spikes in his head and massive bleeding both internal and external. He was like a pin cushion. For 5mins we worked on him as we drove to the hospital. Lividity had already began to set in.

At the hospital he was worked on for over 10mins and declared dead after that and then unhooked.

Without external medical assistance no dead body can be revived but he came to unaided. It would have been a different story if you say he had no severe injuries to his head and chest region but he did and to be able to breath unaided from pneumothorax is absolutely impossible.

You really need to get a handle on what autoresuscitation really is sir because it doesn't seem you do. Note that it happens only after failed cardiopulmonary resuscitation. This means that medically all that needed to be done was done but failed. No external medical assistance yet the dead returned and this is why it's a medical mystery.

Autoresuscitation is spontaneous resumption of cardiopulmonary function after normal resuscitation failed. We are saying the same thing. I've never defined it differently from you. The only difference is that you think it is one huge mystery while I think it's not, evidenced by how many times it has appeared in Medical literature and the possible explanations put forward.

As for your guy with spikes in the head, I've given you a case in medical literature. Phineas Gage a thick metal rod went in through one part of his skull and came out through the other. The metal was still stuck in his skull when he walked to the cart and driven to the hospital. These things are not unheard of.
As per your patient having pneumothorax, you met him on the scene dead, how did you diagnose pneumothorax? Did you take history, physical exam, did a chest x-ray, CT scan?

hopefulLandlord:
the difference is that a man can pretend to be a virgin and his wife/girlfriend/mistress/Secretary wouldn't know better cuz there's no virginity test for men unlike a female

a virgin guy amongst his peers is looked at like there's something wrong with him somewhere
while a virgin girl is looked at in an admirable way by her peers, ignore the superficial criticism non virgin girls give virgin ones cuz beneath the surface they wish they could be virgin too

There's no standard test for virginity ironically. Hymen is shaped differently across different women and not every woman bleeds at the rupture of the hymen, so, any virginity test is highly subjective.

felixomor:
Another surrender!
You couldn't even fathom your injustice of proportional dishonesty

Let alone, debunk it

So, all the deaths since 1982 can be grouped under a single factor and can now be used to compare to the 38 cases? Not minding the different causes of death and the underlying ailments?
Do you even listen to yourself talk sometimes?
Your submission was so stupid that it didn't warrant a reply.

felixomor:
WOOOOW
With the hundreds of millions of deaths since 1982?
one case per year is steady?

Hehehehe, INTERESTING!

Chai, SMH. This doesn't even worth a reply.

felixomor:
@ bolded "steadily reported"

Just look at you again
"38 times or so since 1982"

Yet you call it "steadily reported"?

Is it that you don't know that people are reading what u r writing?

At the rate of slightly higher than one case a year? Looks steady to me.

felixomor:
WHAT A WAY TO SURRENDER
Mscheww

Your problem is pride in ignorance.

As always, you want to have the last say in a debate.
I didn't surrender, I got tired, debating with you is like debating with a layman. So go on, have the last say and watch me discuss with the other doctor so that you'll see how real debates work.

felixomor:
WRONG!
P value is not what is used, What is used are tests OF SIGNIFICANCE
I told u
You don't know this thing, Stop deceiving yourself
P VALUE is what you compare the results of the particular test with to rule if its significant or not.

Stop embarrassing yourself.


Please how is it done?
Dont embarras yourself


This is when you want to carry out a study
Stop bringing this into this discussion



Thats after you have done a test of significance.
You don't know this thing



Please have some shame in your life for once
Thank God 2 other people spotted your LIES on ICD-10
If u were not a doctor, I would have disgraced you more.
Now look at you again Messing up, using "P value" as red herring argument

Just because u have been exposed trying to use a mere observation to force your way on so called "Lazarus Syndrome"
Mscheww

Just continue with your ignorance, you hear. It's obvious that you're not open to learning.
Let's just leave it.

spacetacular:
A debate? Sorry sir I thought it was a simple discussion. You got a whole lot wrong medically on the issue of autoresuscitation because as far as medical science is concerned it's a huge mystery still. It's called autoresuscitation from the medical angle because they had no hand in it so cannot take credit for it.

Personally I have seen at least 4 of such cases on the field and 2 stayed dead for over 30 mins while we worked on their bodies trying and looking for any signs of life. I wasn't much of a prayer person at that time but my fellow paramedic was and I remember him praying all through the ride to the hospital for one of them and we dropped off the body at the emergency hospital at Lewisham. The doctors hooked him up right before us and he had already flatlined. We walked out of the room with Mattie (my fellow paramedic). Time of death was called and we were about leaving the hospital when a nurse ran out and called everyone back in that the dead man just opened his eyes. This was someone with Hematoma. With 2 long metal spikes driven into the side and back of his skull from the impact of the accident, collapsed lungs and dead for 15mins or so before we got there. The drive to the hospital took 5mins. He woke up breathing!

The other which was over 30mins was a code blue. I have seen a lot of gory stuff sir so I am not in here for a debate. Medical science is doing their bit but it does not end there. Trust me because I know.

I thought a back and forth is called a debate. I'm sorry then.
I'm sure in all these cases that you've seen, resuscitation attempts we're made. The Crux of the matter is that in all these cases resuscitation was attempted before autoresuscitation occurred. I'm not talking about cases where there was no resuscitation attempt.
In the cases reported in medical journals, prayers weren't even reported as a possible contributory factor.
Phineas Gage in 1848 had a metal rod impaled into his skull damaging his frontal lobe but still walked to the cart that took him to the hospital.
All I am saying is Autoresuscitation has been established in medicine, it is not a myth, it is not someone's imagination,it has nothing to do with spirituality, it has been steadily reported, in fact, some authors argue that it is under reported.

felixomor:
My brother, this thing is done and dusted.
There are some things u dont need to calculate
Just try to estimate the number of dead people in hospitals since 1982
And compare it to "40"
Bro, no need to even do the chi square, it is statistically insignificant.
If u want to go ahead do!
Its just like u saying 5 nigerians out of 180 million is a statistically significant number. Sorry it isnt




This is always how u show yourself to be funny
Nobody brought up "P value", you did
Just because u wanted to use red herring to hide ignorance.
You are the one who was trying to use an observational article to win arguments, thats why I showed u that it was an unwise thing to do.



Hian.
So far, you are the one who needs them more, I think

P value is what is used to determine statistical significance. These billions of people and the 40 since 1982 isn't how it is done in statistics. A sample size is chosen and what ever analysis is done.
Statistically insignificant is a p value of less than or equal to 5%. I can't teach you about ICD10 and then teach you about biostatistics between yesterday and today. Mba nu, not happening.

mayorall:
Catfishbilly

Brand new hp laptop

1TB

Latest processor



Plus 8gb mayor drive flash drive

Thanks bro, all good, already dismantled it
Nice doing business with you. We shall have more in the future.

felixomor:
LMAO
What is all these?
Guy, if u dont know statistics
There is no need to throw around red herrings to make u look like you know it.
You can do that for lay men




You are funny
No the articles didnt
I just told u that your article is insufficient to arrive at any conclusion, because its number of times of reportage is microscopic and statistically insignificant as far the physiology of dead people is concerned.
The article falls into the category of "observation"
Period.



You just suceeded in demonstrating you know nothing about statistics.
By asking what "statistically insignificant" means when u are trying to draw conclusions with a mere observation article.

You know it was a simple observation/case report article and not a say cohort study with a sample size and you still brought in statistical significance.
For you to confidently say it is statistically insignificant, the p value should be equal to or less than 5%. You have not shown any statistical analysis that got a p value of less than 5%.
Don't bring up p value or statistical significance again. It doesn't work in these types of articles.
Better still, I can recommend some good biostatistics textbooks for you

bennyann:
Oga dont fall my hand here ooo

CatfishBilly vs spacetacular..

You've met your type I'll always call her on you

I'm actually enjoying in. Best debate I ever had on Nairaland, sadly she's no longer quoting me.
Call her anytime you like, I'm always open to debates.

felixomor:
You want me to explain what "statistically insignificant" means?
And u say u r conversant with statistics?

So, where is your statistical analysis to back up your claim? What was the sample size? What was the assumed P value at onset? What was the final P value after your analysis?
Or did any of the articles up there quote a study, a sample size and a P value?
If you don't have answers to these questions, then don't ever mention anything concerning statistical significance abi you think say them dey siddon for corner quote am?

felixomor:
That number is statistically insignificant.

Statistically insignificant to what?

felixomor:
No it doesn't
The point is even the old man in my village can also do that in my local dialect



You dont get it.
Even if u change the name to B.B.c,
It doesnt explain the mysterious mechanism


Hmmmm
Only about 40 cases reported among the billions of people that have died since 1982.....
Hmmmmm, that should raise an eyebrow.....

Anyway.....

Raise an eyebrow to what? Come out plainly and say it.

I don't think any race is inherently superior to the other intellectually.
Even the flawed pseudoscience of phrenology failed to establish this.

felixomor:
This is even from one of the journal articles referenced;

"The term “Lazarus phenomenon” was coined by Bray2 to describe this situation after the biblical character Lazarus who Jesus reputedly raised to life.3 There have been more than 25 cases reported in the literature but it remains unfamiliar to emergency department staff. "

The term is even just a description coined by just one fellow doctor,
But our dear author champions the term like a pathophysiological explanation for how it happens.

Anyway, we are used to him.

So the fact that a doctor named the phenomenon made it false? Really?
Okay, sorry ooo. Choose Return of Spontaneous Circulation if Lazarus is scratching your body.
Of course emergency room staff won't be used to it only about 40 cases all over the world have been reported.

spacetacular:
It's conclusive yet unknown? Wow.
So since the mechanism is unknown how did you arrive at your conclusion and what makes it false or right? Being neutral should be your best position especially since you are putting unknown and conclusive in one sentence.

It is conclusive. Patient died then had autoresuscitation when regular resuscitation failed. That part is beyond doubt. What is unknown is the mechanism by which the autoresuscitation occurred of which several theories have been put forward. The Crux of the debate is Autoresuscitation after failed resuscitation attempts is a known entity in medicine.

I thought you said you brought a dead body back to life so how then did you confirm death since you said here that you have not seen a patient flatline before.

This was your question

Have you seen a patient flatline before and unplugged and covered up to be taken away to the morgue and suddenly come alive and sit up without medical assistance?

Of which I answered in the negative.
Patient was only on a pulse oximeter when saturation dropped to zero. There was absence of spontaneous CardioPulmonary effort, so, yea, patient died.

spacetacular:
Did you say write an article? I believe I mentioned somewhere that I am no paper pusher. Can you give me one such article you have written since you believe so much in articles. Afterall you have revived a dead person before haven't you so you must be an authority figure right?

I've not written an article because there is no need to, It has been covered in medical literature.
But since your own experience hasn't been covered, it's a prime candidate for an article. Write one. Wow us with this your unknown part of medicine.

spacetacular:
Since you say you have explained icd10 can you tell me if it's conclusive or not sir. From what you know about it is it medically applicable or fiction.

Of course it's conclusive. A colleague posted about a classic case about one week ago. That the mechanism is unknown doesn't make it false. A whole host of medical conditions were unknown before research solved it.

Have you seen a patient flatline before and unplugged and covered up to be taken away to the morgue and suddenly come alive and sit up without medical assistance?

I've not.
Have you seen an Ebola patient?
Have you seen a Patient with Crutzfeld-Jacobs disease.
That you haven't seen doesn't make it false.