₦airaland Forum

lol. neoteny, I'm gonna accept those jabs at my character as lighthearted jokes. I certainly dont sit on the fence, otherwise i wouldnt be contradicting u at every turn! ;-)

anyway, u and ladex simply reinforced my point 1 - consoles are better for games TRUE. I wont bother saying why again cos i already said it above. read and compare w what ladex said.


However as per usual, the hardcore bit is where i disagree with you. PC gamers dont *seem* hardcore because they tinker, they ARE hardcore, because that is THE VERY DEFINITION of hardcore! for ghods sakes have u seen the scripts that competition-level quake players use to customize their game? On a console u are stuck with what daddy bill or uncle Ken thinks u should have. Then they hand you a bone in the form of a new faceplate and u think you are customizing. pfft. Hardcore my ARSE.

the only areas where hardcore gamers exist on consoles in greater numbers than on PCs are

1. sports games, but then sports games are hardly considered hardcore in the grand scheme of things anyway.
2. fighting- because for various reasons the PC is a terrible destination for fighting games (reason #1 is that the majority of major combat games come from japan, where windows pc's are NOT the noirm, yes, that is true)


and indeed, nowadays there arent many hardcore fighting game players LEFT on the face of the earth cos the ARCADES, the true breding ground of the fighting elite, are dead and gone, and combat games translate poorly to online, unless u are a PC gamer using kailerra!

Well, a scripted not is a scripted bot so obviously it isnt intelligent. but it sure is competitive!

My opinion is that realistic worlds are not neccesary for a great game. If you made a perfect simulation of a city in which to play, it may or may not give an entertainigngame. However the maps of DOOM1 and DOOM2 took gameplay into account before ebven bothering to resemble any real structure in structural design I mean, i dont care about textures cos of course it was 1992 and textures were primitive then, (most of the levels in doom are not recognisable as being similar in design to any real buildings at all) . Of course the games were, and still are, amazing today because of that.

Therefore a game world should be a playing field first, then a simulation of reality second.


secondly, advanced AI is not neccesary if it cannot cause the player to believe his opponent is human. Since the AI we have today cannot do that, we are left with c0dec's cool mixture of scripted decison trees and AI concepts used to handle some tricky parts. Managed well, an immensely entertaining game can be created. This is the soul of games! I mean. are u telling me you cant remember the way you felt when you first discovered how to get sagat to tiger uppercut forever using dhalsim's standing hard kick?!?!?!?!?

Meeeen. Games are just too much. I feel like tanning sf now, even sef

As per usual my response to u is a mixture of agrement and disagreement

however I agree a lot more than I disagree this time!

consoles are better for games: TRUE

I say this because what is a pc? a general purpose computer, jack of all trades, just so happens to play games as well as forecast the weather, master DVDs, publish calendars, etc etc etc. What is a console? A COMPUTER SPECIALLY DESIGNED TO PLAY GAMES. of course the console is better.

consoles are more hardcore: FALSE

I say false because the truly hardcore are those who put up with the hassle of battling with protocols, drivers, hardware conflicts, patches, firmware versions and whatnot in order to experience the *cutting edge* of gaming technology. When the technology becomes mainstream (matures), then the console makers adopt it and make it accesible for the masses, who use easy, convenient consoles to play. All major game techs did this, 3d graphics, first person perspectives, online play, and so on.

The reason why we are all going 'meh' about the supposed super power of new consoles is because if u have been a pc gamer since 2004, you already know that the rapidly advancing technology is doing NOTHING for the games. So now that console people are shouting about 512 megs of ram and whatnot, its just boring. Online play? weve been doing that since quake 2. Yaaaaaaaawn.

Motion sensing laser pointer controller? Gaddem! The pc hasnt done THAT before!!!! now u know why we are excited about the wii.

(to be precise, the motion sensing thing HAS been done on the pc before, but it was a piece of shit bullshit pile of crap made by microsoft that never caught on. MS seems convinced the new motionsensing controllers will fail cos of that, we'll see.)

Not possible, reverend.

Too much (physical) distance between human settlements for such a thing to arise in a coordinated fashion.

Too much cultural difference, and too much lack of education.

plus: the incumbents are too powerful, and will not support something that will rob them of that power.

the people are weak in Nigeria. civilians are not allowed to bear arms and the military is overpowered. Any popular 'uprising' will soon become a bloodbath.

the idea of using a neural net in black and white comes from the fact that you have to bring up and train a creature in a virtual world. It grows and develops a personality based on its experiences, most of which may take place despite or directkly due to your interference with the wiorld! the game's really cheap now, you can get an ortigio for 1k5 at game (shoprite) and it works on mmost modern pcs so why not pick up a copy and see for yourself?

You are right about the question 'is it neccesary'. Well, the truth is that many multiplayer games are exciting because the opponents are 'intelligent' humans, not intelligent in the sense that they are unbeatable, but in the sense that they are forced to learn and adapt to survive under conditions similar to the players'.

A perfect AI will be a perfect substitute for a human opponent, and thus will enhance the game greatly! Also in RTS games, good AI means less micromanagement, which means a better game. Also in squad based games, you will feel more attached to your men if they display initiative rather than actuing like dumb bots.

However in real life, bots are dumb, and they cheat by having more information about the situation than the player. However, a well programmed bot can be a compelling and exciting opponent! When you finally figure out how zareo works, it can be an edge-of-your-seat experience trying to beat him because he's so fast, he almost never misses, he's deadly accurate and nearly unstoppable, but still a dumb bot that you can manipulate if only you keep your wits about you!

Also who can forget fighting AKUMA and M.BISON in street fighter! cheating galore but if you could beat them you were THE MAN!

hey ladex

to tell the truth, your post proves your original point in a way, but i must add that it doesnt meet my requirements! It rather proves that my requirements are problematic.

1. SOCOM developer is aquired by sony and thus socom is a firstparty title. ref: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6142947.html?q=socom

2. NG black is a firstparty title. one of the best games out there. i could get an xbox for this and halo alone! MS wont port tecmo's games to PC because, they are fighting games. remember what I said about them being a special case?

3. MK- fighting game. disqualified

4. mercenaries- correct

5. destroy all humans - correct



Thats 2 out of 5! However, what you have shown is that the term 'firstparty' is fast becoming a dangerous word for tthe PC. as console manufacturers broker more and more exclusivity deals with studios, effectively preventing them from developing for PC (even if they wanted to), the PC will lose some great games.

But remember- a firstparty title is denied ALL other platforms too, not just the PC.

However, remember that there are equally many PC games that do not appear on any console, or appear in watered-down form only. Practically all FPS and RTS games immediately spring to mind, as well as top MMO's. And to the minds of most gamers, these are truly hardcore games.

That said, I will say that I am a die hard fighting game freak. However, the lack of PC fighting games doesnt affect me! why? simple- emulation! the TRULY CLASSIC fighting games are on outdated hardware (neogeo and cps2) and so the only fighting games youll be issing on PC are the recent ones (ps2 era)

now, all ps2 era fighting games came out after the death of the arcades, hence the death of fighting games! So we arent missing much!

(dont mind me. Im talking rubbish. Im just sore because I cant find any good players of tekken 4, MVC2, sf3, soulcalibur, doa and all the awesome new figting games I always wished I could play but COULDNT FIND ANY OPPONENTS! AAAARGH!)

my psp?

is BIG

is HARD

is BLACK

and is POWERFUL!!!


ooooooh yeah, baybeeee!

you are a woman.

if you were a boss, would you be a bitch and have a dysfunctional relationship with your co-workers?

why are you limiting yourselves.

As chris rock said (hell of a source, huh), women are their own worst enemy. You all are holding yourselves back

One of my best bosses ever was a woman, and she is certainly NOT a bitch- plus I can't think of anyone in the entire company that could do her job better. Not among all the men, even.

But then what do I know. I'm not a woman. You guys know urselves better. She may have been a bitch inside for all I know.

clocky.

AI is a thriving field with many applications. Because robbie the robot does not yet exist does not mean it is responsible for 'very little succesful commercial applications'. Do some research into what modern AI research is like, and you may be pleasantly surprised. In particular pay attention to some of the areas Neoteny mentioned


Neoteny

One reason why AI in games remains simple is that it is, for the most part, not neccesary. Xaero is Quake 3 is a dumb scripted bot but I challenge you to beat hm on hardcore difficulty!

Earlier on c0dec and I did some digging to see if Neural nets are used in Black and white (conflicting statements from various sources). It turns out that they are! so there you have it- a neural net enhanced game. Most people do believe the creatures to be somewhat intelligent. I certainly was quite amazed by my Ape a few times.

Hey ladex.

You are right about one aspect of the pc- that it is expensive to set up a first class gaming rig- BUT you are wrong about everything else.

The truth is that the serious hardcore games are on the PC. When converted to consoles, they have to be 'castrated' so they won't confuse the less sophisticated console gamer. Also, the PC gets the most games. Game developers have to pay insane licnsing fees to publish on consoles, with slight margins and expensive games, but on pc's they pay NOTHING (anyone can download a dx9 sdk and fire away) besides normal dev concerns (which theyd still pay on console development) and make almost pure profit.

Therefore it makes more sense for them to develop for the PC, with their major opponents being 1) complexity and expense of gaming pcs and (2) piracy, ie many hardcore gamers who are savvy enough to build a world class rig will also be crooked enough to download from the net or whatever.

The games you mentioned, god of war, mortal kombat- are both special cases. God of war is a sony first-party game. like all other first party games (except for those from microsoft) that game will never appear anywhere but the manufacturer's console. so you can be sure sony first party titles will not only be held back from the pc, but from the gamecube and xbox, too.

as for MK- fighting games are traditionally not translated to PCs because they are difficult to control without a pad. They are a special case.

The other games you talked about, heavenly sword, gears of war and killzone are not out yet. HS will most definitrly come out on the PC (we can bet). Gears of war, i would have said no, since it is a first party title, but recently microsoft has merged windows and xbox gaming, and so GOW may come out on pc, like most other ms first party titles like halo- maybe just very late. As for killzone, it is a sony first party title, but for Gods sake who needs a second-rate FPS when the pc is the most powerful FPS machine in the world?




Where the pc falls down is for communal couch gaming. it IS possible (via tv-out, multitap, multiple game controllers, pad-to-keyboard interfaces and some serious hacks) but toooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard. So if you need to sit on the couch with a few friends and game on a big tv screen, you need a console. Also the pc fails with non-networked multiplayer (more or less the same thing)



My point: the PC is *THE* hardcore platform. console firstparty exclusives do not count. As for your challenge of 5 kick-ass games, I challenge you to mention 5 kick-ass console games that are NOT firstparty titles, and are not on the PC (or confirmed coming for pc) as well as their host console.

the ultimate

ONE POINT FIVE BABY!!!!!

eat it and kpeme. ooooooooooooooooh yeah,

yo texas pete ive been an evangelist of your view for a looooong time, which is why i dont own a console but have instead upgraded my pc tirelessly over the years.

unfortunately, there comes a time when your ealise that the 'dual game' of pc's takes too long. dual game means: game 1- getting the dasmn thing to work properly, at full speed, with the most options, from the hard disk only. game 2- playing the game

then you realise that because of that you have like 30 gigs of unplayed, unfinished games lying around on your hard drive for close to a year. You realise that after a days work, you'd rather recline on a couch with a pad in front of a 22 inch tv than squint over a mouse and keyboard + 17 inch monitor as uve been doing for the last 14 hours in the office since morning. Your mouse finger aches just thinking of playing games with the mouse.

And worst of all, your non-tech savvy friends are all playing on consoles, so they dont have a clue about the high concept fps's and rts's uve been tanning on ya pc since last millenium. Try to introduce them to the games and they run at 5fps on their lord lugard pc's.

bros, i have given in to the console crowd. i still havent bought a console yet, tho, but i may soon borrow a ps2, and probably buy a wii. I bought 7 pc games since february and havent gone anywhere in any of them, just cosi prefer to recline after a hard days work and relax in front of a tv. the games are call of duty 2, stubbs the zombie, advent rising, nfs most wanted, quake 4, tomb raider legend and beyond good and evil. (i also boiught black and white)

you wont believe i havent gotten anywhere in any of them. pc's arent it for gaming, man.

You are absolutely right, c0dec

I once tutored a girl on programming in school. she was a natural, took to everything instantly, was so intuitive it was scary. I was like' u know uu are a born programmer?'

she was like shhe has absolutely no interest and will never do it once she passes the exam.

in general thats the attitude most women i know have to coding. even at my place of work, we have a girl who passed the mcsd, went to great lengths to get herself redeployed to the programming unit. after like 2 weeks she was like she HATES it and want out. This is someone who had been writing and passing exams on coding for as long as we knew her



xx chromosome does not like to code, even if it likes computers, it seems

oooooh, i hope this isnt common o. Just got me a psp and loving it to death

You may need to do some dhl-ing with a friend abroad (nairalander maybe?) there are many ways to fix a broken screen abroad but here,

I would have suggested alaba, but i dont thik psp penetration has gotten that deep yet. In ikeja there are many places where LCD's for smart handheld devices are fixed, like mcdorsey's, but i dont know whether wthey can handle psp's, they definitley do p800/900's, nokia 3650/ngage-s, etc.

i know of 2 friends that fiixed p900 screens,. and i got a replacement for my 3650 when it was run over by an avensis (still alive till today- respek nokia!)

texas longhorn, i seriously hope you are joking

if you are joking, then har de har har, we are all trying to laugh- but it is difficult to find a joke funny when you are sitting on the keg of gunpowder that some clown is dicking around with

if not, and you honestly feel that being in the us army will give you a chance in a Nigerian military regime, I am very fearful for the wellbeing of your brain and would advise that u go get your head examined before you forget to breathe one day and suffocate to death! (of course you can't be this dense. you *were* joking, right?)

You are more likely to be deployed here by your new american masters to 'liberate' us once the military takes over.

easy for YOU to say.

you're a *guy*

this is a problem for the women here. lets hear what *they* have to say

All the women here seem to prefer male bosses.

funny enough, you then go ahead to explain why women bosses are inferior and incompetent, because they are women!


I hope u know you are de-recommeding yourselves for any form of career advancement.

Next time you are passed over for promotion in favour of a man, remember your own words.

hey nferyn

glad to see you have realised what I was trying to tell you.

I described it as 'common context' but I prefer your term- shared field of rational discourse.

since such a thing is impossible, such a discussion should not take place.

pure logic is incompatible with faith, and the faithful will lose patience with one who refuses to exhibit such faith. The easiest way to see this in action is when a religious person calls a scientist 'ignorant' when it is obvious who it is that is wilfully refusing to use their brain. (the very definition of faith)

that said, I retain my faith and belief in God, and like I said earlier on, I dont bother reconciling it with my scientific studies. Since my standpoint is that the spiritual and physical are in completely different realms, I can believe that men were descended from apes AND believe that God breathed life into a clay statue that became my forefathe Adam at the same time. Both points of view are irreconcilable, but they serve different parts of my psyche.

The scientific knowledge enables me to combat ignorance, and deal more efficiently with the purely physica, while the religious *belief* is nothing more than food for my soul, to prevent me from spiralling into a pit of depression and lack of purpose. Christino may sound like a religious zealot blocking his ears and shouting 'LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!' but his words do provide a little insight into the factors that create a need for religious belief.

Yeah, I agree about the blockbusters and the 'efefcts' games. I guess when a movie/game commands such a high budget, people are more willing to spend money on measurable things (number of effects shots, more polygons and textures) than abstract things like style , story and gameplay.

however dont be sickened yet- even amongst the sequels etc the gaming industry has managed to implement many innovations over the past few years, in fact there have been so many fresh ideas in gaming that it makes one wonder how long it will last! sadly, the new ideas are never advertised, only the polygon count, so it is difficult to know what you are missing. games you may want to check out:

killer 7 : cool visual style, excellent new method of blending action with cinematic cameras
viewtiful joe : showcase of merging animation events with gameplay
half life 2 : visual and event-driven storytelling at its best
advent rising: many problems, but a promising mix of narrative and gameplay
stubbs the zombie: 'growing group' action- quite entertaining!
psychonauts: this has to be seen to be believed
God of war: for the first time (pop:warrior within came close), a thirdperson combat system that works.

These improvements tend to be evolutionary, nopt revolutionary, but many gamers dont keep up with each released game so we may be pleasantly surprised when we pick up a new game only to see about 5 years of innovation piled up.

Gaming is NOT losing its innovation! at least i dont think so,



oh yeah, downgrade your psp to 1.5 firmware, uy a 2gig memstick and enter the homebrew scene. you just may start sleeping with it again!

Yeah, u are absolutely right.

Since i'm basing my research on published specs, i am actually also just parroting the words of others.

I just felt that internal ibm documents may be a bit closer to the truth than some marketer measuring penis length against that of bill gates or shigeru miyamoto, but the truth is that even that document is simplified, if I really wanted to claim elite status i should interpret the PCB's and OPcode lists!

ANyway just like u said, its all a waste of time. the only ppl that should care about it all are the devs anyway, and all WE should care about is what they produce!

the battle will be decided in november when ps3 launches! if it clears the board like ps2 did then microsoft and nintendo will be history!

Understand that when I talk about the positive effects of religion on civilisation, I don't mean personal peace and fulfilment, I mean the threat of eternal damnation in Hell being used to keep people in line.

I do not presume to tell you what to do. However my position remains that if you choose to contradict religious people to their face, be prepared for the results.

to nferyn:

1) As for the comment about atheists shutting up while religious people discuss amongst themselves, that is exactly what I mean. You will notice that a statement I made later on could similarly be interpreted as christians and other theists should shut up when atheists are discussing amongst themselves.

The reason for this is that the logic of both sides is based upon an incompatible set of atomic presuppositions, or axioms. A christian believes thye Bible is the word of God, come rain or shine, which atheists obviously do not. Science-loving atheists base their decisions on logical axioms, which religious teaching, rife with contradictions and inconsistencies (from a purely logical standpoint) , flies directly in the face of.

So each side should ignore the other, but acknowledge and respect their existence, and differences in opinion.



2) As for the talk of christians insulting you, that is exactly what you get for attempting to discuss religious matters in a way that implies you do not accept the Bible as the sacred word of the eternal creator. Insults. Be grateful they are insults and not bullets or bomb explosions.


3) Nferyn, or the many other intellecvtuals who reject religious faith on logical grounds, may not become a rampaging savage when God is proven to be a fairy tale boogeyman, but the hordes of mindless masses currently dancing to the tune of the largest religious mobvements will. Nferyn, please do not assume this is not the case. That will indicate a naivete of proportions that belie the wisdom reflected by your previous postings. People are, for the most part, stupid, violent and completely unreasonable animals. If you remove the threat of eternal burning in the fires of Hell, the world will become a meat-grinder.