₦airaland Forum

livingchrist:
“Yes—Jesus is fully divine. He has all the attributes of God.” (see Colossians 2:9).

Honestly, the rest of your inference is totally meaningless. I'm only interested in this part where you used the word “fully divine[divinity]” to support your trinity doctrine. Once again your KJV BIBLE succeeds in misleading you with regards to Colossians 2:9. The actual Greek word that appears there is “the·oʹte·tos” meaning “divinity” or “divine nature”.
Now, how does the fact that Jesus shares divine nature with his Father mean that they're both the same and equal? John 17:5. After all the angels also share this divine nature since they along with God exists as spirits.(John 4:24, Psalm 104:4)

And for your information, all 7.8billion humans share the same “humanity” or “human nature” and are also “fully human”. So does the fact that all humans share the same “human nature” and are “fully human” make them all the same person? Rack your brain and do some actual reasoning.

jesusjnr2020:
Hmmm...
Jehovah "false" witnesses, was it the devil that put the prophecy of the wise men coming from the East, and bringing gold and frankincense with them, to worship Jesus in the Bible?
Y'all believe it was the devil that put the star that led the wise men to Jesus, because it led to the death of many children, so how about the prophecy that led to the fulfilment of the prophecy including the star that led the wise men to where baby Jesus was?
https://www.nairaland.com/6322073/those-wise-men-east

Cc. MaxInDHouse, DappaD,Janosky, haddeylium

OP mentioned that there were three in number who visited Jesus? Where did the Bible specify the number?
Secondly, Isaiah 60:1 addresses a “woman” which Isaiah 52:1 refers to as “Zion” see also Revelation 14:1-4
Where in Isaiah 60:6 does it say “men from the East” or “men from the rising sun”?
Didn't it specify by mentioning people from Midian, Ephah and Sheba who are in no related to “men from the East”?
So because you saw “gold and frankincense” you chose not to have sense again.

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted!
That's an easy one!
Her god is responsible for all the atrocities going on in the world today {John 14:30} it's the will of her god that's taking place everywhere today {Galatians 5:19-21} and she's proud to say her god is in control of the affairs! 1John 5:19

From the illustration she related, you can tell she's really really obsessed because how else would she know about it if she didn't go and watch our video “Why does God allow suffering?” or a similar video/article on jw.org?

The young lady just doesn't want to admit that the truth is reaching deep into her heart. Hebrews 4:12

MaxInDHouse:
All these is story story story, let him go and join [redacted] and [redacted] in their place of worship, ba wahala!

The guy doesn't even know what he's saying again. Meanwhile nowhere in the entire Bible did God set out any arrangements for marriages that must be followed like he did for true worship. It was a matter of choice on how to go about it.
So allow the guy be—let it just be that he's having argument with JWs.

edoairways:
Have you asked who made such laws?. Secondly, the law of the land recognizes customary wedding so why two weddings?

So far as the customs and the laws of the land where we live don't conflict with God's standards found in the Bible, we'll fully comply with respect to both forms of marriages especially since the statutory marriage is recognized by the government. Read 1Peter 2:13

haddeylium:
what do you mean by two wedding?

Customary and statutory .

edoairways:
If only you knew the origin of some of these celebrations like the way they brain washed people about pagan christmas, you would understand better. I thought JW follows the scriptures, why should they practice something that is not scriptural?. They have been condeming christmas holiday for long using the scriptures but they are shying from the issue of wedding anniversary. To make matter worst, their members( Nigerians) practice two weddings whereas the scriptures recognizes one

The last sentence of your statement only indicates that you're not well-informed.

Jehovah was the one who performed the first marriage by bringing Eve to Adam. Genesis 2:24

So as long as the parent/guardian preferably the father of the daughter has consented and given the hand of the girl in marriage to the fiance(man), they'll need to obey the law of the land by getting married legally(filling their form C and others) considering the local customs as well. Romans 13:1
Then the marriage is fully recognized by Jehovah and whatever they do thereafter is totally up to the couple.

enilove:

I am a man not a woman .
There were publications of the Watch Tower Society regarding the end times in 1799 , 1874, 1878, 1881 , 1914 , 1918 ,1925 and 1975 .
These are known facts . Are you denying these failed prophecies were never given by your organisation and published for people to see?

What do you mean by the bolded? “Prophecies” indicates that something new was foretold which is out of the boundaries of the Scriptures.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe only the 66Books of the Bible are inspired of God so everything we need to know about our days and the future is recorded within the Scriptures. 1Corinthians 13:8-10

Jehovah's Witnesses never said Armageddon would come in the year 1975 or any other earlier year unless you can bring up the publication that said so. What was truly said concerning 1975 was correct and that the year would mark 6,000years[due to accurate Bible chronology found in the book of Daniel] since mankind was created and some began to speculate that the end would come in that year. That's exactly what critics do—they try to take things out of context to justify them leaving Jehovah's organization.

Those who criticize Jehovah's Witnesses always forget that the anointed and inspired apostles made similar mistakes concerning when God's Kingdom would come. Luke 19:11, 24:21; Acts 1:6-7

The year 1914 is correct because that was the year God's Kingdom began ruling with Jesus as King in heaven. Revelation 11:15
Bible chronology from Daniel chapter 4 and world events show that Revelation 12:7-9 took place in that year and shortly after that, Matthew 24:3-14, Luke 21:10-11, Revelation 6:2-8,12:12 began to unfold right before our eyes. But according to Matthew 24:37-39, many people would be apathetic to the signs that are marking the times of the end just like in the days of Noah.

Jesus told his disciples to “Keep awake and on the watch so that the day[Armageddon] would not come upon them like a snare”—Matthew 24:42, Luke 21:34-36
And that's what Jehovah's Witnesses have been doing all these while. They did not invent any new prophecy contrary to what you've been told. So all what we've been doing is trying to understand the events that would happen before Armageddon as foretold in the Bible. Proverbs 4:18
Armageddon will come soon in the future according to Revelation 16:14-16 so that's what we're eagerly awaiting so that we can be ushered into the new world. Revelation 7:9-14,21:1-5

MaxInDHouse:
Can you believe that i got baptized as one of them just recently?

Really brother? You wey I feel say you be elder or at least MS(I dey whine you oo)
Because your comments on NL are too mature for a newly baptized Witness unless you studied for a very long time.
In any case, weldone my brother.

obonujoker:
Explain this then...

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Revelation 1:1 proves that Revelation 21:1 is written in signs.
“Heaven” simply represents the ruling government because Ephesians 6:12 says that Satan and his demons are ruling from heavenly places that is, through the visible human governments of this world.

“Earth” here signifies the human society/peoples of the world i.e. the common man who doesn't wield power. The Bible has often referred to human settlements as “earth”. Genesis 11:1

“Sea” according to Isaiah 57:20 represents the “wicked” humans who are alienated from God.



So the “new heavens” represents a ruling class made up of Jesus Christ alongside with his “bride” numbering into a 144,000 who are all standing on the heavenly Mount Zion(Revelation 7:1-8, 14:1-5, 20:4-6) and exercising rulership over the earth. Revelation 5:10

The “new earth” represents the new, refined human society who recognize God's authority which according to Revelation 7:9-14 will be an immeasurable number.

The “sea” will be no more, in that the wicked ones who have been troubling the peace of the earth will be completely destroyed which will in effect fulfill Psalm 37:10 see also Isaiah 57:20.

obonujoker:

The Earth will be destroyed by fiery fire... However a new heaven and a new Earth will be created ..
How is that the Bible will say something plain, and people keep refuting and saying something else?? Na wa o

Pay attention.

DappaD:

Because you saw a “new earth” in Revelation 21:1 doesn't mean this present earth will be destroyed or else it would negate Psalm 78:69, 104:5 & Ecclesiastes 1:4.
Since the book of Revelations was given to John in signs & symbols, then it ought to carry a hidden, deeper meaning. Revelation 1:1
After all, according to Peter's logic, the former “earth” of Noah's day was destroyed, yet the earth remained. 2Peter 3:5-7
Therefore the word “earth” can mean peoples/society of humans. Genesis 11:1, Psalm 66:4, 96:1
So according to 1John 2:17, it is the wicked society or “earth” of humans that are to be destroyed not the literal earth. Psalm 119:90

enilove:

Since that time has God not been interested in the affairs of this world and wills that a good or obedient person be ruling a nation ?.
The book of Hebrew below says God Predestined or officially put in place of authority leaders that are in power :
Romans 13:1 KJV
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ORDAINED of God.
Just like the time of the kings in old testament . God was interested in the stewardship of the kings as of then . Likewise He is still interested in God's people getting good leaders.
When you pray for good leaders , you will get one .But when we don't pray for a good leader , we won't get any.
We need to be interested in the affairs of our nation and pray for it's peace and progress .
God is willing and ready to deliver this nation if we are doing His will .

You need to see things from the perspectives of the Scriptures else you might keep getting confused.
Jehovah God was the One who installed all of those kings in Israel—right from Saul to David and then to the last king of Judah, Zedekiah. He granted all of them authority to sit on his throne.(1Chronicles 29:23)

But what happened when the last king Zedekiah proved unfaithful and refused to heed warning from Jeremiah? Jeremiah 38:14-26
Well, Jehovah spoke through another of his prophets Ezekiel:
Remove the turban/crown[from Zedekiah's head]...and it will not belong to anyone until the one[Jesus Christ] who has the legal right comes, and I will give it to him—Ezekiel 21:26-27, Luke 1:31-33

That means right from the time Babylon desolated Jerusalem, there has been no God-approved king here on earth and that's just the facts. Jehovah has already installed the next King in heaven who is his only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Psalm 2:6, Revelation 11:15

Romans 13:1 shouldn't confuse you. Those governments have authority only because Jehovah let them have it.
When God used Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus to accomplish his purposes, they were merely his instruments in meting out justice and discipline not that they were approved by God because those men and their nations worshiped false gods. Daniel 3:1

Jehovah our God is interested in the affairs of humans that's why he has promised us a way out—a better Kingdom, a better Ruler and a means for we to have everlasting life under that Kingdom. Daniel 2:44, Luke 1:31-33, John 3:16

Until that Kingdom is extended to the earth(Matthew 6:10), Jehovah's Witnesses will continue to preach about the Kingdom and will continue to develop a “waiting attitude” for Jehovah our God.
Micah 7:7, Matthew 24:14

enilove:

Satan is the ruler of this world as long as we allow him. We have the power to take what belongs to us from him .
That is part of the battle Jesus worn for us on the Cross
Did God not say '' the power that be are ORDAINED or predestined by God .
How and why do you think God will put the children of the devil in Power and leave out His children ? Or is God not involved in the affairs of his world again ?

enilove:
When did Satan start to rule this world?

Before Jesus or after death of Jesus ?

Immediately after Adam and Eve sinned and God dismissed them from the garden of Eden. Genesis 3:1-24
Ever since then the vast majority of mankind has been controlled and manipulated by Satan because it is written about Cain(second generational human) that he “originated with the wicked one[Satan]” and served Satan's interests by persecuting and killing a true worshiper, Abel—Genesis 4:5-8, 1John 3:10-12

Jehovah God handpicked some individuals to be his people by virtue of their hearts being complete towards him—Abel, Enoch, Noah, Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and then faithful men from the nation of Israel as his people. Hebrews 12:1 describes this set of people as a “great cloud of witnesses” since they were the only worshipers of the true God while the rest of mankind were controlled by Satan and his demons. Ephesians 6:12

Of course the Bible says we should be in subjection to the superior authorities only because God has allowed them to exercise authority for now. Rebelling against the governments(Caesar) would mean we're going against God's arrangements. (Romans 13:1, Titus 3:1, 1Peter 2:13)

But since God has allowed it for now, he said when the time comes, his own Government/Kingdom will completely wipe out and destroy all human governments in the future. Daniel 2:44, Revelation 16:14-16, 19:11-21

On the issue of allegiance/devotion, that's where another Bible principle comes to the fore.
Let's go back to the book of Matthew 22, that is, when the Pharisees and members of Herod's political party tried to get Jesus to commit sedition.
They came in pretense saying: “What do you think? Should we pay head tax to Caesar?”
Jesus had already read their wicked hearts and asked that they should bring him a tax coin, so he asked them: “Whose inscription and image is on the coin?”. They replied simply: “Caesar”
Then Jesus set out the principle that would guide his own disciples on matters of loyalty and obedience: “Pay back therefore, Caesar's things to Caesar's and God's things to God”—Matthew 22:15-21

Who is Caesar and what belongs to Caesar?
Caesar represents the government of the land. Caesar's things represents the legal tender[money] since it was the government that printed the money we use in exchange, it's only right that the government ask it back in forms of taxes, dues and tributes. Romans 13:7

Who is God and what belongs to God?
Jehovah God is the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe. Psalm 83:18
God's things represents:

1. OUR LIFE[Psalm 36:9]
Since Jehovah gave us life we can never give our lives for our country(Caesar) for any reason whatsoever. Caesar has no right to ask for it in the first place.

2. EXCLUSIVE DEVOTION.[Exodus 34:14]
Jehovah is a jealous God[1Corinthians 10:22] so when it comes to our whole-hearted allegiance and devotion, we give that only to God and not Caesar. Mark 12:29

3. COMPLETE OBEDIENCE.[Acts 5:29]
Of course we are obedient to the laws of the land where we live but whenever the government(Caesar) wants us[Jehovah's Witnesses] to go against God's standards found in the Bible, we will give them a resounding NO because it is Jehovah who we must obey as Supreme Ruler rather than men.

So what Jesus was implying in Matthew 22:21 was that Caesar(the government) should know his boundaries but at times, they refuse to keep to the agreement that's why they'll persecute and label us “extremists” because we refused to submit to laws that are contrary to Jehovah's standards. Matthew 5:10-12, John 15:18-20

enilove:

You are misinterpreting the Bible .
You said we are not to pledge support to any human government . Why did the Bible say in
Romans 13:1-7 KJV
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. [2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. [5] Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. [6] For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. [7] Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due ; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
If the power that be are of God , why can't Gods children be in power and move lives of people forward ?
The '' world '' Jesus is talking about is the corrupt earth . The abomination of this world . We are not part of that .
It means the evil deeds of the world .
Can you see where you got it wrong ?

I guess I should make my identity clearer so you can understand my viewpoint.
I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I wholeheartedly support God's Kingdom[a real government].(Daniel 2:44)

So concerning the highlighted, Jesus says of his true disciples: “They are no part of the world”—John 17:14-16

Meaning that they would neither take part in the world's political systems nor pledge support to any human governments INSTEAD they would be completely neutral in all political and social matters and fully support God's Kingdom. John 18:36

enilove:

I said it all in my first post above that we should be light as God says we are .
No matter the profession you are into , be truthful with it according to the standard of God .
My question is a direct one . Are Christians not supposed to go into politics ?

sammy329:
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
It says work out your salvation, not work for your salvation, because there is a power at work in the believer to do good work

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sammy329:
2 Peter 1:6-10 (KJV) And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
In context, Peter was encouraging believers to take note of the virtues he listed before verse 10

The “Once saved, always saved” belief is a huge fallacy because Paul and Peter, noted that one can shrink back and return to engaging in former practices that are contrary to God's standards which will terminate a person's prospect for salvation. Hebrews 10:36-38, 2Peter 2:20-22

What I meant by “I won't spoonfeed you” was that you should come to your own conclusions yourself.

If the people you call “Christians” engage in politics, then we cannot say they are imitating Jesus' example to keep away from such. John 6:15, 1Peter 2:21
And hence my answer at Matthew 7:15-23 applies to them.

enilove:

What do you mean by spoonfeed ?
You are not making any tangible contribution .
You claimed I should not have included politicians in my statement as part of Christians .
My question is why ?
Read your bible b4 concluding you know it all next time .
Matthew 21:31 KJV
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses and you see that book of Revelations we have thoroughly dissected and understood it decades ago. There's no place in the book of Revelation that suggests that the earth will be destroyed. Revelation chapters 16-19 says those to be destroyed are to be the human governments and every individual who doesn't know Jehovah God and obey the good news of his Son, Jesus Christ. 2Thessalonians 1:7-9/Psalm 37:10

Because you saw a “new earth” in Revelation 21:1 doesn't mean this present earth will be destroyed or else it would negate Psalm 78:69, 104:5 & Ecclesiastes 1:4.
Since the book of Revelations was given to John in signs & symbols, then it ought to carry a hidden, deeper meaning. Revelation 1:1
After all, according to Peter's logic, the former “earth” of Noah's day was destroyed, yet the earth remained. 2Peter 3:5-7
Therefore the word “earth” can mean peoples/society of humans. Genesis 11:1, Psalm 66:4, 96:1
So according to 1John 2:17, it is the wicked society or “earth” of humans that are to be destroyed not the literal earth. Psalm 119:90

Eviana:

Ok...so you are or aren't a Christian?
I also didn't understand fully what you typed.
The book of Revelation states that the earth as we know it, will be destroyed and made anew.
If you accept/say "yes", and give me a few days, I can suggest a biblical presentation which will help you understand the Book of Revelation....
You won't then be confused with scripture verses as the one you stated above.
If you'd like it, please let me know.
I, as well, don't argue over scripture....

sammy329:
Believers are eternally secured in Christ
Hebrews 10:10-14 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

So what did Paul and Peter mean at Philippians 2:12 and 2Peter 1:10?

OP you need to read between the lines. I'm not here to spoonfeed you.

OK. When you're done gallivanting, locate the word “rapture” in the Bible and get back to me.

IfIPerishIPeris:

I hear u sir! Keep searching for analogy!
If you don't believe it or you don't see it, when it happens, it will be Practical.
Arguing Bible is what I do not do.

Eviana:
Not at all.
The scriptures explain the 2nd Coming in Revelation....the book of prophecy regarding the end times of earth's history.

I do not understand you one bit. The earth is never to be destroyed says Psalm 104:5 & Ecclesiastes 1:4.

IfIPerishIPeris:
Have you ever seen the Word Bible in the Bible?
If you can't see the Rapture in the verses mentioned then you are on your own

Weak analogy.
The word “Bible” simply means “book”. In this context, we can refer to the “book” that contains the “Scriptures”. The word “Scripture” which means “writing” occurs a significant number of times in the Bible. Acts 8:32, 2Timothy 3:16

Eviana:

Not sure if you are a Christian or not, but I am in the tiny minority here about that word you bolded.
It doesn't exist in the bible.
Hollywood got in the bible and interpreted it the way it wanted to.
There will be no secret rapture....as shockingly as that may seem to the majority of the Christian world.
Many well-meaning Christians just don't understand this event...
Actually, this is one of the scriptures (that you posted above) that is difficult for people to understand and describes what will occur after the great tribulation.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (KJV)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The words "caught up" are presumed to mean "rapture".

So what you're saying is that one day people will stay and start disappearing with their fleshly body to heaven?

So where is the word “rapture” located in either 1Corinthians 15:51-52, 1Thessalonians 4:16-17 or any other part of the Bible?

However, the most appropriate answer to the question of your thread is found at Matthew 7:15-23.

enilove:
How ? tell me .

Are those you're referring to as “Christians” truly following Jesus’ example?
Because that “Christian” name dey sweet many people to answer.

When Jesus was offered a political position to be king, why do you think he rejected the offer? John 6:15
Jesus’ answer was clear: He was no part of the world and he also said of his true disciples: They are no part of the world. John 15:18-20; 17:14-16

What was the reason for this?

Because Jesus and his disciples knew that the one in control of ALL the governments of this world was Satan the Devil. John 12:31, 14:30; 2Corinthians 4:4; 1John 5:19; Revelation 12:9
After all, Satan was willing to give Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth [since they belonged to Satan] if only Jesus would compromise his integrity to God and worship him. Matthew 4:8-10, Luke 4:5-8

OP I'll be frank with you—you already lost it completely when you mentioned “Christian” and “Politician” in the same sentence.

What Jesus revealed about our days is already recorded in the Bible. Period.


Meanwhile, I'll leave the OP with this.
1John 4:1:
“Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

Since the 66books of Bible are inspired of God(2Timothy 3:16-17), any new “revelation” coming at this time is actually demon-inspired.[Galatians 1:8, 1Timothy 4:1-3]

Barristter07:
Good points @ OP .

If people follow the tenets and principles contained in the scriptures , The world would be a better place . Take an example the Bibles law that Husband love their wife's and the wife respect her husband. How would a family where this is practiced look like ?

Frankly speaking many laws of the countries including establishment of Police, FBI, etc are to curtain things like Murder, Theft, Fraud , and so on which are equally things true religion Frown against .


If religion is removed, then that means each person get to decide what is good and bad , in short if you got me angry and I decide to kill, it's Cool since my emotions allow it. , If I think blacks are monkeys and inferior to whites, Am right , it's good by me , . A world without religion is like removing the laws of the land . CHAOS.

Religion is not the problem, human selfish greed disobedience is the problem.

Unfortunately that's what some people have refused to understand. They claim science has achieved remarkable feats, okay and fine BUT it cannot address the root causes, just the symptoms.

For example, if someone commits the crime of murder, science has made it possible for the defaulter's fingerprints to be retrieved and used to locate him. When the authorities prosecute and indict him, he goes to prison only to be released back in the society to practice the same atrocities. Who the person truly is at heart didn't change. So it's like an endless cycle if we put all hope in science and not the Bible.

Meanwhile—like you already know—true religion using the Bible has addressed the root cause of what can lead to murder, which is hatred for fellowman and has successfully replaced it with intense love for all sorts of men regardless of language, ethnicity or racial background. [Matthew 5:21-22, John 13:35]
So my wish is that all come to see the real benefits of applying Bible principles in their lives. Isaiah 48:17-18