₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
DappaD is one of JWs and as a member of the global organization, i can confidently tell you that none of us will tell you that God's holy spirit is a loud speaker!
That's why i said you must have misconstrued what DappaD said!

An illustration is all I used o

sonofElElyon:
stronghold of the mind

You've not given any reasonable answer so far.

How come you skipped everything Janosky said? Because you can't provide a rebuttal?

Have you been able to compare Matthew 12:28 to Luke 11:20?* Explain how God's finger is a person. 1, 2, 3, GO

sonofElElyon:
because the context naturally and conveniently approves this! can't you see that you guys are the ones labouring to give it another meaning

I feel as if I'm discussing with a retard..

Is it your own PRIVATE INTERPRETATION or not?

sonofElElyon:
the Bible says scripture is not of private interpretation.. 2nd Peter 1:20

the simple basic rules of interpretation is apply the literal meaning except it works an absurdity but no.. Jehovah witnesses will always have a secret meaning only them can see.. you guys are pseudo christians.. not genuine..

only Jehovah witnesses know the "secret hidden" meaning of scripture. you people twist and turn the scriptures to suit your heretical doctrines..

Abeg spare me all that hogwash

How did you know that scripture was referring to a person? Is it not your own private interpretation?

sonofElElyon:
the Bible says scripture is not of private interpretation.. 2nd Peter 1:20

the simple basic rules of interpretation is apply the literal meaning except it works an absurdity but no.. Jehovah witnesses will always have a secret meaning only them can see.. you guys are pseudo christians.. not genuine..

only Jehovah witnesses know the "secret hidden" meaning of scripture. you people twist and turn the scriptures to suit your heretical doctrines..

So how come you interpreted it to mean it's blasphemy against a person?
Shey you see your life?

sonofElElyon:
Jesus says whoever commits blasphemy against The Holy Spirit commits the unforgivable sin..

I guess you can also commit sin against a loud speaker

the more you try to justify your position the more ridiculous you sound

It's obvious you don't know what Jesus meant in that verse!
When you're ready to know more about Jesus' words at Matthew 12:31, mention me or forever hold your peace.

Blabbermouth:
The existence of an eternal fire is consistent with the Word of God. Whether you chose to believe it or not, technically has no salvation value... But then, please learn to UNLEARN and RELEARN even if what you've relearned has contradicted the belief of your sect (as long as it is in line with Christ.
Peace!

OK sir but just a friendly reminder– that you and your partner have done nothing so far but beat around the bush with long irrelevant posts on this thread that aren't convincing to a sane person seeking truth – so I choose not to UNLEARN established Bible truths which I have learned from Jehovah's Witnesses. Come and beat me or better yet, threaten me with your useless nonexistent ‘hellfire’.

Blabbermouth:
Cc: Maximus69, Chatinent, DappaD, kobojunkie, Daejoyoung, other JW's in the house, and fellow Christians....
When Christ Jesus said "Anywhere 2 (or more) are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them" , if perfectly understood and acknowledged, we would be having more of a fellowship discussion and not aimless arguments where everyone is trying hard to shove his/her own resolve down anyone's throat.
When we discuss, we kind of ignore Christ and move on to propagating whatever essence less doctrine we have - sadly, this is what immaturity actually is. How can you be arguing about things pertaining to Christ when Christ himself is present? How can I be arguing that Buhari is a Muslim when Buhari himself is present? Since Christ is here, why shouldn't we just ask him?
That being said, I will implore anyone reading this to sustain the humility to UNLEARN and RELEARN as long as whatever you are relearning is coming from the horse's mouth (from Christ himself). Even if its hard, you should come to realize that when push comes to shove, you belong to Christ Jesus and not some denomination or sect.
Alright, that being said, let us answer the question- IS HELLFIRE REAL?
When Christ Jesus was praying (John 17), he asked that whereever he is (in Glory), there should his servants be. Hey beloved, there is also a similar arrangement for the devil...
Matthew 25:41
"Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed INTO everlasting fire, PREPARED for the devil and his angels"
According to Christ, wherever the devil is (in torment), there shall his followers be... (Note this, we will reference it soon)
According to Christ, a place was/has been prepared for the devil and his angels.
Now the contention is, is the "Everlasting Fire" or say "Lake of fire" a location (I.e. a place) or a state (of total inexistence)?
Let's hear from Christ again
(About the second death)
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and Sorcerers and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE which BURNS WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE: which is the second death" -Rev 21:8
It's about to get interesting now, see what the after-verse says
"For without (I.e. Outside the gates) are dogs, and sorcerers and whoremongers, and murderers, idolaters and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" -Rev 22:15
What does this tell us?
1. Those whose name is not written in the book of life will be outside the gates
2. (From the first verse), they will be with the devil and his angels
3. The Lake of Fire is a place!
Perhaps there are still fickles of contention, trying to believe that the fire still means "eternal cut-off" or a state of inexistence, let's use another verse to round this up...
PS: The Beast (Alias Antichrist) is a man! (2 Th 2:4-
Rev 19:20 - "And the beast (Antichrist) was taken, and with him the false prophet (also a man) that wrought miracles before him with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshiped his image. These both were CAST ALIVE into a LAKE OF FIRE BURNING WITH BRIMSTONE"
Perhaps you rushed that scripture, go back and read in-between where it says - CAST ALIVE..... Here is a rhetorical question
Where were they Cast into? Hahahaha
Is the Lake of fire or ETERNAL FIRE a place (location) or a state of eternal inexistence...
If truly the scripture cannot be broken, if truly a line cannot both be straight and curved, then verily, the ETERNAL FIRE is a location and it is real!
Proof:
1. The Lake of Fire is a place
2.Those cast into it were ALIVE
3. The torture in the Lake is forever and ever
4. 1,2,3 are confirmed by Christ!

PEACE!

OK! Noted sir.

Blabbermouth:
The truth should be able to stand despite every kind of scrunity, what you claimed is different from what Jesus said. I take the Word as truth and not the resolve of others.

OK I've heard you and your partner
Let me inform you in case you don't know. What Jesus said at Matthew 25 will have to conform with the other parts of the Bible. God's holy spirit was directing all these things so there can't be a contradiction.

Matthew 25:46 states in many Bibles that there will be an ‘eternal punishment’ for evildoers, correct?
Now the Greek word translated there is ‘kolasis’ and it gives a generic meaning to the word ‘punishment’ – but in itself depicts an actual ‘pruning’ or ‘cutting off’ that is, total annihilation/destruction once and for all and is not depicting an everlasting torment in a fiery place. These words of Jesus will have to agree with the other parts of the Bible. The wicked are to be cut-off/done away with/destroyed forever (Psalms 37:10,38, 104:35, Proverbs 2:22, 2Peter 2:9,3:7-9)

Blabbermouth:
The truth should be able to stand despite every kind of scrunity, what you claimed is different from what Jesus said. I take the Word as truth and not the resolve of others.

Have you people started again?
What exactly have I said with respect to Jesus on this thread now?

Maximus69:
Simply quote, you're waiting for who will tell you how it was inserted shey?

I stand by my word that it was never part of the scriptures before the time of the council Sir!

Emusan is looking for who to spoonfeed him

Blabbermouth:
Unfortunately sir, this is not consistent with the WORD OF GOD. I'm satisfied with Kobojunkie's comments (it was consistent with the word of God) , but then, I will drop a write up to clear the air on all this.

Don't bother then.

Maximus69:
God's judgment TO DESTROY is not part of his program from the beginning!
It wasn't meant for imperfect humans who were misled but for PERFECT beings who had no excuses for not maintaining their position yet willfully decided to rebel against God!
That's why God's word said "his will is for all (imperfect humans) to come to repentance" 2Peter 3:9
So it means the impending extermination wasn't meant for humans but for Satan and demons (perfect spirit beings) who willfully disobeyed God! 1Peter 3:19-30, 2Peter 2:4; Jude 6

Brother, there's no need arguing with Kobojunkie any further on that matter. What he/she is saying is that God when he created humans had bad intentions — which isn't what the Scriptures reveal.
From all I've noticed, he/she doesn't believe in the other parts of the Bible — but just the gospel accounts of Jesus.

HazardAwka:
Where do infants go to upon death?
Discuss....

Since they're descendants of Adam, they return to the dust of the earth – the Grave! (Genesis 3:19, Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12, 1Corinthians 15:21)

Blabbermouth:
Do you derive joy in arguing? Perhaps, in your mind, you are talking to an unlearned Christian that doesn't know anything about the bible. I've seen you chicken out of threads using this same scope, almost like you don't want to concede defeat.
Whenever I'm discussing with a Christian, I don't allow my belief to cloud my discernment of truth, please do emulate that too.

Okay, I know nothing about the second death. Will you school me please?

Don't get me wrong chief. I'm not here to make you look ignorant or poor in knowledge. No.
I appreciate when someone decides to learn as you've shown now.


Coming back to the topic on ground, the ‘lake of fire’ in Revelation symbolizes the ‘second death’ – a death from which there can be no resurrection(Revelation 21:8 )
When humans die today, we can call that the ‘first death’ because there is a chance of them being resurrected. But as for the ‘second death’, it means no hope of resurrection — all memory of them is completely wiped out from history (Psalm 9:5, Proverbs 10:7)

I can't begin explaining extensively in detail about second death and the resurrection on social media.
If you choose to know more, you could shoot me an email.

Blabbermouth:
Who are those going to be resurrected? Who are those going to be judged?
Any witness in the house...

Who told you I can't give you an answer about the resurrection from the Scriptures?
That isn't the topic of this thread so I've decided not to answer you on that.

So please answer my question that's related to the topic of this thread

DappaD:
2. What is the second death as revealed by Revelation 2:21, 20:6, 14, 21:8?

I wonder what makes you think I can't reply your questions.
Just answer mine let's move on. Thanks

Blabbermouth:
This your primary school scope will not work. You are very uncomfortable when someone asks you a question, as it shoves you to the wall.
In claiming that Adam and Eve went to the dust, you sounded like that's the end. Hahahahahahaha .... Now I asked you (first!), who will be resurrected?
You decided to play hide and seek just like you did in the other thread.
I am not one to argue, I go for essence only, yea sir, Essence only!
The goal here is to enlighten us on the existence of hell fire and not to give you some bible lessons that will take us nowhere.

Until my second question is answered, you can continue in your folly.

Peace.

Blabbermouth:
Jehovah's witnesses talk like robots... I've heard what you are saying, many times, many places and again and again and again.
If the Lord wills, I will enlighten you completely after you've tendered your doctrine completely.
You are the ones that rush to open Gen 3:19 yet you still claim that all of mankind will be resurrected.
Oga, hope you know that you've not answered my questions yet?

There is no need to rigmarole. Just say you don't know and leave these your big big talks.

You asked me 3questions and I answered all 3 without hesitation.
Now ordinary two questions I've asked you, you're all about the place talking about doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Call me robot, zombie, I agree I am all of those. But it still doesn't affect my questions.
This is the second part of my earlier questions.

DappaD:
2. What is the second death as revealed by Revelation 2:21, 20:6, 14, 21:8?

Please give an answer let's move on. Thanks.

Blabbermouth:
Typical.
I've never met any Christian that says "Hell fire is where you go when you die"... No! It's actually " Hellfire is where you go after you've been judged and you are found wanting"
Do you now see the foolishness of using Gen3:19 as a soft landing?

Which brings us to my second question.

DappaD:
2. What is the second death as revealed by Revelation 2:21, 20:6,14, 21:8?

You see how I ask my questions logically? So with the first question we've debunked the lies about the existence of ghosts and the place humans go where they die — now we'll concentrate on the forged hellfire doctrine and debunk it as well.

Another question just sprung up.
Are you saying that Adam and Eve haven't been judged yet?
Let's see your knowledge on the Scriptures.

Blabbermouth:
No! Do not shadow box please. You can't talk about hellfire and not talk about resurrection.

Lol. Okay. Tell OP to change the topic name to ‘Is Resurrection Real?’ and we can talk about it.
Til then, as long as this topic concerns ‘Hellfire’ we're going to be discussing about the lies behind the mythical hellfire.

Blabbermouth:
Did you not say they will be resurrected?

Resurrection is another topic entirely. The topic of this thread is about the fallacious nature of hellfire.

This is my question.

DappaD:
So how did the hellfire doctrine now come about?

Since the Bible reveals Adam and Eve went to the dust. Was God now lying that they went somewhere else?

Blabbermouth:
In the dust. Hahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

Are you ready to be serious or not? Why the unnecessary laughter?

Good. They're in the dust.
So how did the hellfire doctrine now come about? Since it's obvious people return to dust when they die.

Blabbermouth:
As your lordship pleases.
Do you know anything about the word "SHEOL"?! Well, that is by the way.
1. God said they will die the same day they eat of the forbidden fruit, even then after eating the fruit, man did not die (physically)!
God said " you will return to the ground, out of it was thou taken: you are dust, and unto dust you shall return".... Hey, hey, hey beloved, before you are quick to jump up and conclude that God meant that will be the end of every man, ask yourself - Is man Dust Alone? Hahahahahahahahahaha
Gen 2:7 - the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE; and man became a LIVING SOUL.
Hey, the flesh is from the dust but the BREATH is not! The writer of Ecclesiastes said the body goes into the grave but the spirit goes to where? Hahahahahahaha
Now, Jesus was exposing a secret to his listeners and he said "God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is not the God of the dead (God forbid!) , He is the God of the Living!" How can God be the God of Abraham and still be God of the Living? Perhaps, Abraham, Jacob and Isaac are still alive?
The Lord God was talking to Cain and he said - "Your brother's blood cry unto me from the ground."
C'mon isn't Abel dead? Why is his blood still speaking good things?
Go and study your bible without have to depend on some board of directors (no abuse intended) , and you will know where Adam, Eve, Cain, Abraham, Abel, and the likes went.

No
Leave those ‘board of directors’ out of this. I asked you a simple question, where are Adam and Eve now?

MightySparrow:
Nonsense, so there is no love between boko haram or ISIS.

Comparison upon comparison.
Until you find another religious group preaching about God's Kingdom extensively as the only hope of mankind and having the fruitage of holy spirit displayed in their gathering, then you Mr MightySparrow have no argument to present! (Matthew 24:14, Galatians 5:22-23)

Blabbermouth:
Witnesses are notorious for shoving interpretation down people's throat.
If Paul says "it shall vanish away" , witnesses will tell you that he was talking about the "1st century".
If Jesus says there shall be " gnashing of teeth" , witnesses will tell you that he was talking about the decay of the bones.
So, I won't go first.

Nobody is shoving anything down anybody's throat oga. Either you want to listen or you don't.
We'll still maintain our stand — and that's what is misunderstood by people.

Blabbermouth:
1. Let's not mingle with English puh-leaaaze, which one is "Everlasting Cut-off"?
2. How does lake of fire translate to total destruction?
" Gibrah" is the Hebrew word for grave. "Gehenna" is something else entirely....
How does "Gehenna" then translate to grave?
3. a. Do you mean all mankind? Or just the righteous ones (like the JW)?
b. Spot on! Agreed!
c. What happens after they are judged?

Calm down. This is not job interview. You ask questions, I ask questions. That's how it should work.


1. Please where did God say Adam and Eve will go after they sinned and died?

2. What is the second death as revealed by Revelation 2:21, 20:6, 14, 21:8?

Explain. Using only scriptural references.

Blabbermouth:
To start with, let me pan out that SALVATION IS IN JESUS ALONE!
I realized that many apologetics and Witnesses try to find a soft landing when propagating the truth that "God is love", In a bid to achieve this, they decided to believe that hell fire is not real. Hahahahahahaha
When asked to provide scriptures, they run to Ecclesiastical and try to shove it down everyone's throat. Honestly, you don't just sit by one scripture and then twist the rest to suit what you believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey, answer this please;
1. What happens to the devil and his angels?
2. What happens to the angels that did not keep their estate but went after the daughters of men?
3. Is judgement day real? Who is going to be the judge? Who is he/ are they going to judge?
Let's see how far fallacies can travel ..

I'd like to correct you on some things as well.

Blabbermouth : I realized that many apologetics and Witnesses try to find a soft landing when propagating the truth that "God is love"


DappaD : Can you help us check whether 1John 4:8 is in your Bible? Let's know whether it's Jehovah's Witnesses that put it there or not.


Blabbermouth: In a bid to achieve this, they decided to believe that hell fire is not real.

DappaD : Do you know that the very idea of burning people in fire disgust as in irritates God? — Jeremiah 7:31. Life is meant to be enjoyed and God who is the source of life CAN NEVER subject his creation to such circumstances — Psalm 36:9, Revelation 4:11


However one question is still poised at you hellfire propagators, where did God say Adam and Eve would go when they sinned and died? – Genesis 3:19. We've not heard anything from you guys yet, why?

Blabbermouth:
To start with, let me pan out that SALVATION IS IN JESUS ALONE!
I realized that many apologetics and Witnesses try to find a soft landing when propagating the truth that "God is love", In a bid to achieve this, they decided to believe that hell fire is not real. Hahahahahahaha
When asked to provide scriptures, they run to Ecclesiastical and try to shove it down everyone's throat. Honestly, you don't just sit by one scripture and then twist the rest to suit what you believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey, answer this please;
1. What happens to the devil and his angels?
2. What happens to the angels that did not keep their estate but went after the daughters of men?
3. Is judgement day real? Who is going to be the judge? Who is he/ are they going to judge?
Let's see how far fallacies can travel ..

1. The devil and his angels/demons depart into an everlasting cutting-off (Matthew 25:41, 46)

2. Those angels are still rebellious demons under Satan control, the answer to that is in number 1.
Satan and his demons will completely be annihilated in the ‘lake of fire’ symbolizing the second death (Revelation 20:10, 21:8 )

3. a. Yes, Judgment Day is a time period when mankind in general will be called to account by God. This time period as revealed by Revelation, refers to the Millennial Rule of Jesus Christ.

b. Jehovah God is the Eternal Judge over all creation. He is the Judge of the whole earth. (Genesis 18:25). But on this occasion, God has appointed his Son, Jesus Christ to do the judging (John 5:22, Acts 10:41, 2Timothy 4:1)

c. During the millennial reign, there will be a resurrection of all those who have died throughout mankind's history (Acts 24:15)
Those resurrected will be given the opportunity to exercise faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice and make necessary changes before they'll be judged! (Revelation 20:12, 13)


Can we now hear your own explanation of your questions?

Myer:
Now the Holyspirit is not a force but a loud speaker?
Like I always tell people, you can defend what you want to believe in the bible. The bible is an interesting book like that.

Anyway, I've shown you portions where the Holyspirit was addressed as a Person by Jesus Christ himself and also the apostles.
I understand you don't believe in trinity but that doesn't mean you should deny portions of the bible which personify the Holyspirit.

Yes sin and death were also addressed as kings. (Romans 5:14,21).
But I don't think that made them real persons with identities.

Maximus69:
Chei DappaD wants to reset his brain back to factory setting!

It's very obvious churchgoers don't like reason.
I have this relative — a clergyman in RCCG. Anytime I go over to his place to discuss the Bible, he'll tell me ‘not to add meaning to the scriptures’
He normally says ‘I should just leave the Bible as it is’. On one occasion he even opened Revelation 21:8 and wanted to miscontrue the whole thing about lake of fire to mean their obsolete ‘hellfire’. When he read the verse finish, I asked him to explain what ‘second death’ means and behold — the usual ‘don't add meaning to the scriptures’ talk.
That's how all these churchgoers are too. Explain what Revelation 21:8 means by ‘second death’ and you'll see all of them fumbling.

Maximus69:
Fully understood Sir!

He said ‘We're the ones saying that Satan is ruling the world’
Because it was JW's that attached 1John 5:19 to the Bible abi what?

Righteousness89:


He That being often reproved, and Continues to Harden his neck , will Suddenly be Destroyed and that without Remedy!

You are Free to say or Believe what you will Sir!

You won't say you didn't hear or you didn't Know ..

Keep on doing whatever you Will.. When you Cross over, you will wish to turn back the clock..

Emphasis on the bolded.
Yes, wicked and rebellious ones are to be completely destroyed forever. (Job 24:24, Psalm 37:10, 104:35, Proverbs 2:22, 10:7, Matthew 25:46)
If they're to be destroyed as you said, where does the hellfire doctrine come into play — being tormented forever? Where?