₦airaland Forum

Blabbermouth:
Sir, just take it as I don't know much.
Please do justice to my question.

Very well then.

Jehovah God applies his ability of foreknowledge to foreknow and foreordain events of salvation and deliverance, as well as acts of judgment and punishment, and then to bring such events to fulfillment. Isaiah 45:21, 55:10,11
He dispenses such knowledge about these future events to his prophets which we find in the Bible. (Isaiah 42:9, Amos 3:7)
Events such as the coming of the great Flood, destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the entrance of the Israelites into the Promised Land, the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians, the destruction and desolation of Babylon, the return of the Jews from Babylonian exile and other events such as these were ALL foretold by God that such would happen and they also had their fulfillment (Genesis 6:17/7:11, 19:13-15/24-25, Jeremiah 50:45,51:11,Isaiah 13:17, 21:9//Daniel 5:30, Jeremiah 24:6,29:10-11/Ezra 2:1).
There are also prophecies that we are awaiting to be fulfilled in the future (Psalm 37:10,11,29, Isaiah 25:8,33:24,35:5-7, John 5:28,29/Acts 24:15, 1Corinthians 15:26, 2Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1-4)

But if you notice here, these prophecies affect people on a general scale and not individually. So yes, God has the ability to foretell the future in accordance with his will for his people in general. In our day, the prophecies about the future will affect mankind in general.


How about on an individual level? Is there any set-out plan by God for every individual? Apparently not, because we are all free moral agents and if it were so then that would mean that God shows favouritism or is impartial. But the Scriptures help us to know that Jehovah God is not partial. See Job 34:19, Acts 10:34,35, Romans 2:11, Ephesians 6:9
So he does not predestine the fate of every individual for that would mean he is impartial.
In general, Jehovah's will for humans is for them to be know the truth, be saved and have everlasting life (John 17:3, 1Timothy 2:4, 2Peter 3:9)
He desires for the wicked and rebellious humans to change from their wicked ways and choose the good life (Ezekiel 33:11)
So as you can see yourself, nothing from the Scriptures support predestinarianism i.e. the belief that all humans have the fate already decided by God.


Since we were created with free will and weren't programmed like robots, God has also given us the freedom to decide what we want for ourselves as intelligent creatures.
If he wants to pry into our personal dealings and our future, that would sadden his heart because the hearts of mortal men is filled with wicked things (Genesis 6:5-6, Psalm 78:40,41). So Jehovah decides to refrain from knowing such things so as to remain the happy God.– 1Timothy 1:11

Blabbermouth:
Yes, you are right.

Okay. Understood now.

I'll posit my question first, before answering yours.

All I need is a Yes/No answer before I proceed.


Are you among those who believe in DESTINY? i.e. the so-called divine set-out plan for a person by God?

I'm asking because so-called Christians and most of the world populace believe in this concept of destiny.

MuttleyLaff:
¹⁷The LORD answered Moses, "I will do what you have asked, because I am pleased with you, and I know you by name."
¹⁸Then Moses said, "Please let me see your glory."
¹⁹The LORD said, "I will let all my goodness pass in front of you, and there I will call out my name 'the LORD.' I will be kind to anyone I want to. I will be merciful to anyone I want to.
²⁰But you can't see my face, because no one may see me and live."
²¹Then the LORD said, "Look, there's a place near me. Stand by this rocky cliff.
²²When my glory passes by, I will put you in a crevice in the cliff and cover you with my hand until I have passed by.
²³Then I will take my hand away, and you'll see my back, but my face must not be seen."
[color=#990000][/color]

Two things, God never absolutely reveals to men on this short side of eternity, they namely are: His name and the future or metaphorically referred to as His Face or His Glory.

Of course, God reveals the future, just as He told Abram/Abraham that through his seed, the whole wide world hood will be blessed, that his descendants will inherit the land of Canaan aka the Proimised land and that they will be as strangers be enslaved for 400 years et cetera


Affirmative. Of course, God know where you''ll be spending your eternity, but it does stop any of the plan and work of God. Wherever you end up, it is a right you have that you should be allowed to exist, whether for a short while on earth or for a long time

There are more than just eternity/eternal existence but the explaining the details are out of scope of the thread's limit and would end up being info overload

I don't think I'm the ones asking the questions here.


On the bolded, I disagree with you a 100%.
But in time we will get to discussing that.

For now though, I intend to understand OP's question the simplest way I can.

Blabbermouth:
Wow! Nice scripture.
So, Does God know if I will end up in heaven or Hell ?

You quite know my stand on those two subjects up there. Let me rephrase the question for you.

Blabbermouth : Does God know whether I will gain everlasting life or remain inexistent forever?

I presume this should be what you mean?

Blabbermouth:
To be sincere, I mean everything that pertains to "What is yet to happen" , so that also includes 1 and 2.

No, no, no
You've got to be specific.

Number 2 will result from Number 1 if it gets that far.
Choose one first.

Blabbermouth:
Honestly, I never intended to ridicule, trust me. I used "your" because you guys sometimes prefer separating yourself from other Christians.
Alright, I will correct myself;
Does God know the future?
PS: By the way, I did enjoy the response of your brother Maximus69 but he hasn't given me his answer to the main question of the thread.

Well, as Jehovah's Witnesses we see ourselves as the only worshipers of our God Jehovah.

That said...

Your question ‘Does God know the future?’ is very broad. It would be better if you could narrow it down a bit.

On the words you bolded yourself, let me get some things straight.

1. Do you mean if He can foretell the future to give his servants a glimpse/hope of the future?

OR

2. Do you mean if He uses foreordination/foreknowledge all the time? Even regards details of the birth and death of all intelligent creatures(humans) from Adam until now?

Blabbermouth:
Alright. So Does your God know the future?

Interesting question.

However, the determiner ‘your’ in your statement makes it sound like you've already made up your mind about what I'm about to tell you.

So I'd rather not answer your question seeing it might tow the path of ridicule.

Blabbermouth:
Sir, according to you, God already knows that I won't be able to trust him and love what he loves. Who knows, we might both be destined for hell/ eternal sleep (in any case you are a JW).
What say ye?

The man is not one of us

The Bible’s answer


The Bible foretold that pestilences (widespread diseases, including pandemics) would occur during the last days. (Luke 21:11) Such pandemics are not divine retribution or punishment from God. In fact, by means of his Kingdom, God will soon put an end to all health problems, including pandemics.

Did the Bible foretell pandemics?

Has God ever punished people with sickness?

Are today’s pandemics punishment from God?

Will pandemics ever end?

Bible verses about sickness

Did the Bible foretell pandemics?

The Bible does not mention specific pandemics or diseases, such as COVID-19, AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, or the Spanish flu. But it does foretell “pestilences” and “deadly plague.” (Luke 21:11; Revelation 6:8 ) These events are part of the sign of “the last days,” also referred to as “the conclusion of the system of things.”—2 Timothy 3:1; Matthew 24:3.

Has God ever punished people with sickness?

The Bible reports a few occasions when God used sickness to punish people. For example, he caused some individuals to have leprosy. (Numbers 12:1-16; 2 Kings 5:20-27; 2 Chronicles 26:16-21) However, these isolated incidents were not indiscriminate pandemics that spread to innocent people. Rather, such events were specific judgments on individuals who had clearly rebelled against God.

Are today’s pandemics punishment from God?

No. Some people claim that God is using pandemics and other sicknesses to punish people today. However, the Bible does not support that claim. Why not?

For one thing, some of God’s worshippers—both past and present—have been plagued with sickness. The faithful man Timothy, for example, suffered “frequent cases of sickness.” (1 Timothy 5:23) But the Bible does not say that this was a sign of God’s disfavor. Likewise today, some faithful servants of God become sick or contract diseases. Oftentimes, these individuals were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.—Ecclesiastes 9:11.

Moreover, the Bible teaches that God’s time to punish the wicked has not yet arrived. Rather, we are living “in a day of salvation”​—that is, a time when God is extending a warm invitation to all humans to draw close to him and be saved. (2 Corinthians 6:2) One way he extends that invitation is by means of a global preaching work with a positive message​—the “good news of the Kingdom.”​—Matthew 24:14.

Will pandemics ever end?

Yes. The Bible foretells a time in the near future when no one will be sick. Under the rule of his Kingdom, God will cure all health problems. (Isaiah 33:24; 35:5, 6) He will do away with suffering, pain, and death. (Revelation 21:4) And he will bring back to life those who have died so that they can enjoy good health here on earth under perfect conditions.—Psalm 37:29; Acts 24:15.

Bible verses about sickness

Matthew 4:23: “[Jesus] went throughout the whole of Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the Kingdom and curing every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity among the people.”

Meaning : Jesus’ miracles demonstrated on a small scale what God’s Kingdom will soon do for all humankind.

Luke 21:11 : “There will be . . . pestilences.”

Meaning: Widespread health problems are part of the sign of the last days.

Revelation 6:8: “Look! a pale horse, and the one seated on it had the name Death. And the Grave was closely following him. And authority was given them . . . to kill with . . . deadly plague.”

Meaning: The prophecy about the four horsemen of the Apocalypse indicates that pandemics would happen in our time.

Source : www.jw.org
Link : https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-about-pandemics-disease/

Jehovah’s Witnesses follow the Bible’s advice not to respond to all accusations and instances of ridicule. For example, a Bible proverb says: “The one who corrects a ridiculer invites dishonor.” (Proverbs 9:​7, 8; 26:4) Rather than being pulled into quarreling by an undue concern over false accusations, we focus on pleasing God.​—Psalm 119:69.

Of course, there is “a time to be silent and a time to speak.” (Ecclesiastes 3:7) We respond to sincere people who are interested in finding out the truth, but we avoid getting into pointless arguments. We thus follow the teachings and examples of Jesus and the early Christians.

Jesus made no answer when he was falsely accused before Pilate. (Matthew 27:11-​14; 1 Peter 2:​21-​23) Likewise, Jesus did not respond to accusations of being a drunkard and a glutton. Instead, he let his actions speak for themselves, in harmony with the principle: “Wisdom is vindicated by its results.” (Matthew 11:19, footnote) When the circumstances called for it, though, he boldly responded to those who slandered him.​—Matthew 15:​1-3; Mark 3:​22-​30.

Jesus taught his followers not to be discouraged by false accusations. He said: “Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake.” (Matthew 5:​11, 12) Yet, Jesus also said that when such accusations opened the way for his followers to give a witness, he would fulfill his promise: “I will give you words and wisdom that all your opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute.”​—Luke 21:12-​15.

The apostle Paul counseled Christians to avoid pointless disputes with opposers, describing such arguments as “unprofitable and futile.”​—Titus 3:9; Romans 16:17, 18.

The apostle Peter encouraged Christians to defend their faith when possible. (1 Peter 3:​15) Yet he recognized that this is often best done by action rather than by word. He wrote: “By doing good you may silence the ignorant talk of unreasonable men.”​—1 Peter 2:​12-​15.

Source : www.jw.org
Link : https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/respond-to-accusations/

Csonice1:
One of the basic differences between man and angels is repentance/reconciliation. humans are permitted to reconcile with their Maker but angels are not.
who told you that Adam does not live to God according to the spirit? Who taught Cain,Abel and Seth about God?.

1 Peter 4:6 " For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit"

I've been following this thread quietly and I can't seem to understand some things.

Is Csonice1 saying that God changed his mind concerning Adam and Eve? And if so, what Scriptural proof do you have of this?

petra1:
It was part of the Dead Sea scrolls . Among other books like Isaiah and co.

Secondly that’s the only book that contains the prophecy of Enoch



Where did Jude quote from ?

There were several other scrolls that weren't added to the Bible canon.
Besides, unlike the books of Daniel, Zechariah and Revelations, it has no prophetic relevance.

Dtruthspeaker:
Is this not Your Confession?



Re: Jesus And The New Testament : A Closer Look. by sonmvayina(m): 9:30pm On Aug 13
DappaD:


Oh so you can believe and even quote the words of a man–this emperor Julian who you're not sure existed abi? undecided

OK!

So what made you so sure that the OT isn't full of these “monstrous tales” as well? undecided undecided
If it's part of these “tales”, why believe in them since you also have no solid proof of those events which unfolded in ancient Israel?

I don't believe the story, I learn the messages in the story.. All the stories in the Bible are all lies, the letter killeth.. I learn the messages in them.. The Torah is not a history textbook.. It is a manual to guide my step. Like a lamp..
(Quote) (Report) (Like) (Share)

You dey mind the guy
When he gets cornered he'll pass the entire OT he says he believes in as nonsense.

[quote author=petra1 post=92852559][/quote]What proof do you have that Peter and Jude quoted from the boE? NONE right?

For all we know the boE attached such verses to make it seem legit.

petra1:
Satan Was the ruler of the world Who’s original name was Lucifer . He was Ruler over men on earth and also an Archangel in heaven . He led men in rebellion against God and angels in heaven . And God destroyed that world with a flood . That was before Adam was created . Millions of years ago.

You get your own Bible wey you write?
Satan's name is NOT Lucifer!
He was not an archangel!
God destroyed the wicked people about 1,500-2000years after he created Adam!

Except you get your own Bible wey talk another thing.


You just dey tell moonlight tales.

petra1:
Don’t Bump books together . Some so called uninspired books were quoted in the Bible .

There were several books in the Bible days that are not in our present bible . Such as book of jasher , book of Nathan ,Book of Gad , Book of Enoch etc .

1 Chronicles 29:29
book of Nathan and in the book of Gad the seer,

2 Samuel 1:18
18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.

Paul ,Peter and other apostles recognized them as valid

Paul quoted from Jasher here

2 Timothy 3:8
8 -- Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

The book of Enoch chapter 2 was quoted by Jude

Jude 1:14
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

He quoted chapter 2 of Enoch . Peter also made references from book of Enoch
1Pet 3:19

2 Timothy 4:13
13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

Many books were lost during the wars
Some were later found. Such as The Book of Jasher . The book of Deuteronomy too was lost for many years until it was found .


13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments. Many books were still missing till today .



Some of these uninspired book are historically accurate .

I'm the one telling you that as long as it's not included in the 66books, it is UNINSPIRED and will remain so.
God's holy spirit guided Bible writers to include information from relevant sources when writing the Bible, such as the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew 1 and Luke 3.


As for the book of Enoch, it will remain a book of fanciful tales and stories. The inspired letters of Peter and Jude quoted those verses from reliable sources in their day, not the book of Enoch.
Going by how and when the book of Enoch was written, it can be said that the writer also quoted from the same source Peter and Jude quoted from just to give it some sort of legitimacy.

sonmvayina:
It is well explained... Read it again..

Since when did any Roman become the Messiah/Anointed One?

sonmvayina:
Very well, that is the response a rabbi gave me when I also inquired.... Do I have to argue with him...? Chech his response at www.aish.com.

Lmao, a rabbi, a Jew who's among those who rejected Jesus Christ/still waiting for a Messiah or? Jews will always be biased with their interpretations.
You should search out for a neutral source, then copy paste again.

Maximus69:
What i've noticed in him is the zeal to correct the impression of others around him but he doesn't want any specific standard so instead of asking for who are doing God's will he just want to tell everyone "i'm OK, don't come telling what to do or what not to do"

Everybody has the capability and freedom to make such choices for himself so when time for reckoning comes, the person won't say he was influenced by something else.

sonmvayina:
This is a very lengthy topic, especially because those verses in Daniel are so cryptic. However, before summarizing the Jewish interpretation, I’d like to point out a few difficulties with the Christian one. First of all, the term “mashiach”, which literally means “anointed one,” is never used in the Torah in reference to the Messiah as we think of it today. That word appears 39 times in the Torah, and the intention is always for a High Priest, a King, or someone designated by God (“anointed”) for some special mission. See for example Leviticus 4:3, I Samuel 12:3, 24:6, 26:11, Psalms 20:7, Lamentations 4:20, and Isaiah 45:1.

In fact, Rabbi Tovia Singer points out that in every other place where the word “mashiach” appears in the Torah, Christian Bibles interpret it accurately as “anointed one” and only the two times that it appears here do they translate it as “the Messiah” – both with the definite article “the” in front of it (which does not appear in the Hebrew), and with the word Messiah capitalized – although Hebrew has no capital letters.

Secondly, Daniel 9 clearly speaks of two anointed people – one after 49 years (7 weeks), who will begin the rebuilding of the Second Temple. And a second after 62 weeks (434 years), when an anointed person will be cut off. The first one predates the Second Temple and clearly does not refer to Jesus.

The second anointed one, who did live around the time of Jesus, does not seem to be a very righteous person. Daniel writes that he will be “cut off” (“yikarait”). Karet, which means excision, always has a negative connotation in the Torah. It is most commonly used for the punishment of excision which one incurs for the most serious transgressions.

Daniel also states that that this mashiach will be cut off “and there will not be to him” (“v’ain lo”). It is a cryptic term, but seems to say that he will have nothing left or there will be nothing left of him. Christians interpret this expression as meaning “he will die but not for his own sake” – namely, the Messiah will die for our sins. But that is simply not what the Hebrew means.

Lastly, Christians believe that the Messiah was to be cut off in the middle of the final 7 years (the final “week” of v. 27) and at the end of that week the Temple was destined to be destroyed. But according to Christian tradition, Jesus was crucified in the early 30’s C.E. which was well over the half week (24.5 years) before the Temple’s destruction in the year 70. It is also difficult to understand when to begin the count of 490 years according to Christian interpretation. Four hundred and ninety years before Jesus’s death does not seem to correspond to any significant event, making it unclear what starting point Daniel’s vision had in mind.

To begin understanding these verses according to Jewish tradition, as always, it is important to see the verses in context. In the beginning of Chapter 9, Daniel is profoundly worried about the prophecy of Jeremiah. Jeremiah foretold that Jerusalem’s destruction would last 70 years (see Jeremiah 25:12 and 29:10). He thought the 70 years had come to an end already, and in fact the Babylonian Empire had recently been overtaken by the Persians, yet the return to Jerusalem had not occurred. He feared that they were not worthy of the prophesied redemption and that it was going to be delayed. He began fasting and praying, beseeching God for His forgiveness, until the angel Gabriel came to him and clarified the future events – when the Second Temple would be rebuilt and how long it would stand.

(In truth, the two 70’s of Jeremiah 25 and 29 were separate prophecies. Babylonia would fall 70 years after its ascension (25:12) – and this had occurred the year before the events of Daniel 9, while the return to Zion would not occur until 70 years after Jerusalem’s destruction (29:10), which occurred 18 years after Nebuchadnezzar’s ascension.)

As to the precise interpretation of the verses, there are a number of slightly different approaches among the commentators. In the interests of simplicity, I will follow primarily a single approach below.

The 490 years (70 weeks) refer to the entire time period from the destruction of the First Temple until the Destruction of the Second. Gabriel outlined this entire period to Daniel. Some explain that this was in part a response to Daniel’s anxiousness over the 70 years of Jeremiah. The angel explained that in addition to the literal 70 years of Jeremiah’s prophecy – the 70 years of punishment Israel would require before the building of the Second Temple, Jeremiah was hinting to a longer 70 – 70 weeks of years – which would be required to fully expiate the sins of the nation during the First Temple. Thus, apart from the 70 years of actual exile, there would be 490 years total in which Israel would suffer other forms of unrest and deprivation, even as the Second Temple stood (Abarbanel, Malbim).

Based on this, verse 24 states that a full 490 years would be required to completely wipe out the sins of the First Temple era. At that point, sin could be removed totally and a period of everlasting righteousness and the fulfillment of prophecy could ensue. I.e., after the full atonement of the 490 years, the Messianic era could have ensued, and the Third Temple could have been built shortly after the Second. (Sadly, though, the Jews sinned further during the Second Temple, pushing off the ultimate redemption even further away.)

Verse 25 speaks of an anointed prince appearing after 7 weeks, after which “a street and moat” will be built, standing for 62 weeks, but in troubled times. The anointed prince was Cyrus (whom God referred to as his mashiach (Isaiah 45:1)) who was to grant the Jews permission to rebuild the Temple. This occurred in the 52nd year after Jerusalem’s destruction – longer than 7 weeks, but the final fraction of a week was not counted.

As that verse continues, afterwards would commence the building of the Second Temple. That period would span in total 62 weeks = 434 years, plus the 4 years remaining from the eighth week begun before Cyrus ascended the throne. (Note that the 7+ weeks together with the 62+ total 70 full weeks.) Thus, this period would last 438 years in total – the 18 years from Cyrus’s command until the Temple was inaugurated, together with the 420 years the Second Temple stood. This, however, would be in troubled times – under the rule of the Persians, then the Greeks, and finally the Romans, with much oppression throughout.

Verse 26 describes what will happen at the time of the Second Temple’s destruction. An “anointed one” will be cut off. This either refers to King Agrippa II, the Hasmonean King at the time of the destruction, the High Priest at that time, or the notion of priesthood in general. The Temple will be utterly destroyed by the Roman legions of Vespasian and Titus (“the people of the prince”). Jerusalem will be utterly “washed away” (“its end shall come in a deluge”). And it will remain so until “the end of war” – the final battles in the time of the Messiah.

Verse 27 adds some interesting details of those final years and beyond. The Romans will make a covenant of peace with the “great ones” of Israel for the final seven years. However, they will not abide by their covenant but for the final half a week before the Temple’s destruction they will abolish the offering of sacrifices. Also, an idolatrous temple with mute abominations would later be built on the high place of the Temple (by Hadrian) – until destruction will be poured out upon all such abominations in the End of Days.

It's not everything you see online you copy and paste!
Imagine saying Daniel 9 is talking about two Messiah's
Are you aware of how dense you sound right now?
Crosscheck what you copy pasted and see if everything makes sense to you.

sonmvayina:
This is a very lengthy topic, especially because those verses in Daniel are so cryptic. However, before summarizing the Jewish interpretation, I’d like to point out a few difficulties with the Christian one. First of all, the term “mashiach”, which literally means “anointed one,” is never used in the Torah in reference to the Messiah as we think of it today. That word appears 39 times in the Torah, and the intention is always for a High Priest, a King, or someone designated by God (“anointed”) for some special mission. See for example Leviticus 4:3, I Samuel 12:3, 24:6, 26:11, Psalms 20:7, Lamentations 4:20, and Isaiah 45:1.

In fact, Rabbi Tovia Singer points out that in every other place where the word “mashiach” appears in the Torah, Christian Bibles interpret it accurately as “anointed one” and only the two times that it appears here do they translate it as “the Messiah” – both with the definite article “the” in front of it (which does not appear in the Hebrew), and with the word Messiah capitalized – although Hebrew has no capital letters.

Secondly, Daniel 9 clearly speaks of two anointed people – one after 49 years (7 weeks), who will begin the rebuilding of the Second Temple. And a second after 62 weeks (434 years), when an anointed person will be cut off. The first one predates the Second Temple and clearly does not refer to Jesus.

The second anointed one, who did live around the time of Jesus, does not seem to be a very righteous person. Daniel writes that he will be “cut off” (“yikarait”). Karet, which means excision, always has a negative connotation in the Torah. It is most commonly used for the punishment of excision which one incurs for the most serious transgressions.

Daniel also states that that this mashiach will be cut off “and there will not be to him” (“v’ain lo”). It is a cryptic term, but seems to say that he will have nothing left or there will be nothing left of him. Christians interpret this expression as meaning “he will die but not for his own sake” – namely, the Messiah will die for our sins. But that is simply not what the Hebrew means.

Lastly, Christians believe that the Messiah was to be cut off in the middle of the final 7 years (the final “week” of v. 27) and at the end of that week the Temple was destined to be destroyed. But according to Christian tradition, Jesus was crucified in the early 30’s C.E. which was well over the half week (24.5 years) before the Temple’s destruction in the year 70. It is also difficult to understand when to begin the count of 490 years according to Christian interpretation. Four hundred and ninety years before Jesus’s death does not seem to correspond to any significant event, making it unclear what starting point Daniel’s vision had in mind.

To begin understanding these verses according to Jewish tradition, as always, it is important to see the verses in context. In the beginning of Chapter 9, Daniel is profoundly worried about the prophecy of Jeremiah. Jeremiah foretold that Jerusalem’s destruction would last 70 years (see Jeremiah 25:12 and 29:10). He thought the 70 years had come to an end already, and in fact the Babylonian Empire had recently been overtaken by the Persians, yet the return to Jerusalem had not occurred. He feared that they were not worthy of the prophesied redemption and that it was going to be delayed. He began fasting and praying, beseeching God for His forgiveness, until the angel Gabriel came to him and clarified the future events – when the Second Temple would be rebuilt and how long it would stand.

(In truth, the two 70’s of Jeremiah 25 and 29 were separate prophecies. Babylonia would fall 70 years after its ascension (25:12) – and this had occurred the year before the events of Daniel 9, while the return to Zion would not occur until 70 years after Jerusalem’s destruction (29:10), which occurred 18 years after Nebuchadnezzar’s ascension.)

As to the precise interpretation of the verses, there are a number of slightly different approaches among the commentators. In the interests of simplicity, I will follow primarily a single approach below.

The 490 years (70 weeks) refer to the entire time period from the destruction of the First Temple until the Destruction of the Second. Gabriel outlined this entire period to Daniel. Some explain that this was in part a response to Daniel’s anxiousness over the 70 years of Jeremiah. The angel explained that in addition to the literal 70 years of Jeremiah’s prophecy – the 70 years of punishment Israel would require before the building of the Second Temple, Jeremiah was hinting to a longer 70 – 70 weeks of years – which would be required to fully expiate the sins of the nation during the First Temple. Thus, apart from the 70 years of actual exile, there would be 490 years total in which Israel would suffer other forms of unrest and deprivation, even as the Second Temple stood (Abarbanel, Malbim).

Based on this, verse 24 states that a full 490 years would be required to completely wipe out the sins of the First Temple era. At that point, sin could be removed totally and a period of everlasting righteousness and the fulfillment of prophecy could ensue. I.e., after the full atonement of the 490 years, the Messianic era could have ensued, and the Third Temple could have been built shortly after the Second. (Sadly, though, the Jews sinned further during the Second Temple, pushing off the ultimate redemption even further away.)

Verse 25 speaks of an anointed prince appearing after 7 weeks, after which “a street and moat” will be built, standing for 62 weeks, but in troubled times. The anointed prince was Cyrus (whom God referred to as his mashiach (Isaiah 45:1)) who was to grant the Jews permission to rebuild the Temple. This occurred in the 52nd year after Jerusalem’s destruction – longer than 7 weeks, but the final fraction of a week was not counted.

As that verse continues, afterwards would commence the building of the Second Temple. That period would span in total 62 weeks = 434 years, plus the 4 years remaining from the eighth week begun before Cyrus ascended the throne. (Note that the 7+ weeks together with the 62+ total 70 full weeks.) Thus, this period would last 438 years in total – the 18 years from Cyrus’s command until the Temple was inaugurated, together with the 420 years the Second Temple stood. This, however, would be in troubled times – under the rule of the Persians, then the Greeks, and finally the Romans, with much oppression throughout.

Verse 26 describes what will happen at the time of the Second Temple’s destruction. An “anointed one” will be cut off. This either refers to King Agrippa II, the Hasmonean King at the time of the destruction, the High Priest at that time, or the notion of priesthood in general. The Temple will be utterly destroyed by the Roman legions of Vespasian and Titus (“the people of the prince”). Jerusalem will be utterly “washed away” (“its end shall come in a deluge”). And it will remain so until “the end of war” – the final battles in the time of the Messiah.

Verse 27 adds some interesting details of those final years and beyond. The Romans will make a covenant of peace with the “great ones” of Israel for the final seven years. However, they will not abide by their covenant but for the final half a week before the Temple’s destruction they will abolish the offering of sacrifices. Also, an idolatrous temple with mute abominations would later be built on the high place of the Temple (by Hadrian) – until destruction will be poured out upon all such abominations in the End of Days.

Oga all these your copy and paste is not necessary.
What does Daniel 9:24-27, especially verse 27 say regarding the cessation of guilt offerings and sacrifices?

sonmvayina:
Let me quote Amos 3:7 for you "7For the Lord God does nothing unless He has revealed His secret to His servants, the prophets. God will first of all reveal it, before it happens, if he wanted to send his son as sin sacrifice he will tell his prophet.. So it won't be a controversy..

On that note, could you check whether Job 33:24, Psalms 45:7-8 and Daniel 9:24-27 are in your Bible? Let's see what we can make of it as regards the bolded.

Or you believe you can cherrypick your way out of everything?

Maximus69:
Please my brother, which Bible book is called Enoch?

The book wasn't written by the faithful man Enoch.
It's just one of those uninspired apocryphal books full of fanciful tales and myths, just like the Gospel of Judas.
Books written by overzealous people who weren't inspired of God's holy spirit.
When I read the book of Enoch, I saw it even contradicted with the Biblical Genesis account on the birth of Noah. I just knew that the book was full of hogwash.

Pearlla:
that's exactly what i'm saying "satan" is a fallen angel.. The ruler of all demons, it didn't state that satan was a demon. Abeg follow jor, don't cause con-fu-sion.

Hmm
I thought we were trying to establish the facts that fallen angels could possess/control the minds of humans, so if Satan could possess Judas, that also makes him a demon madam.

Well since I've already established that fact – John 13:27, I bid you farewell.

Pearlla:
it states "ruler of demons" "first fallen angel" it never says "satan, the demon"

John 13:27 says it was Satan, madam.

Pearlla:
hey, where do you see that one, it's demons who possess judas and not fallen angels ooo!

Please read John 13:27.
Satan(the primeval/first fallen angel and the ruler of the demons) entered into Judas.

petra1:
Demons are ghosts of children of fallen angels

This conclusion is not coherent with the Holy Scriptures. It doesn't matter what the book of Enoch has to say on the issue–the book is uninspired anyway.

The children of the fallen angels were hybrid humans called Nephilim/Giants/mighty ones/men of fame – Genesis 6:4
When the Flood came, the fallen angels dematerialised into their former spirit bodies and went back to heaven, but God didn't accept them back into his angelic family–but restrained them in a place called Tartarus– 2Peter 2:4; Jude 6, evidently meaning that they had a number of privileges stripped from them so they could no longer materialise into humans but had and still have control over the world.
As for the children of the fallen angels/demons, they perished in the Flood since they were also human but of an extraordinary sort.

So far we know from the Bible, ghosts do not exist, for when humans die they cease to exist and their thoughts perish. (Psalm 146:4, Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10)

petra1:
The bible says satan used the serpent to beguile Eve. He didn't posses Eve .There is never a place where Fallen angels possess human. If they do then it will be possible for Holy angels to possess human also

In going deeper on this . There is a difference between Demons and Evil spirit.

Demon are chief spirits who are superior to and controls evil spirits.

Ailments afflictions ,are evil spirits . But they are controlled by Demons . Even though most times we call all of them Evil spirit or devils most times .

There is another school of thought that the spirit of those who died in the pre adamite world are operating on earth as well .
These 2 sources have been alleged as origin of demons and evil spirts . But the fact is that they were once humans who lost their bodies and needs a body desperately to interact and express their nature and character.

This thread is anything but upbuilding. I see no reason discussing in-depth about the demons(fallen angels)
However Satan is a fallen angel who didn't stand in the truth (John 8:44) and he is the ruler of the demons(who are still fallen angels) – Mark 3:22

If you say demons could possess humans and fallen angels couldn't, can you explain why Satan(who is a fallen angel and the ruler of the demons) was able to enter into Judas? – John 13:27

Maximus69:
Don't bother my guy, leave Jehovah's Witnesses out of this for now, try to settle with your fellow Trinitarians on the matter of Jesus and his father!

He's been calling JW's out as if it is anybody's business if he decides to continue wallowing in his ignorance.

haekymbahd:
The thing is not all that is written in the Bible are actually false but have been tampered either by addition or subtraction.

So you're now the one who gets to decide on which part of the OT was tampered with and which part was not abi?
OK we've heard you!

sonmvayina:
It is like a story.. Or a movie.. That you watch, the characters and actors are all fictional.. But at the end of it.. You ask yourself what did I learn from that story or film.. Then somebody teaches you about it.. And you learn.. Let me give you an example..

You read about God killing Onan for failing to impregnate his brothers wife.. And spilling his seed.. What is it to learn from the story, what do you take from it.. Well, the story teaches us the dangers of pleasure without responsibility... Sex is the greatest pleasure known to man..
Or you watch a movie of Peter pan. And you realize the story is about friendship..
The story is not an eye witness story.. Or account.. I don't think the writers will want to bore you with a tale they never witness..

Think.. Think..

This philosophical view of yours is one of the major reasons you're in this mess.

sonmvayina:
I don't believe the story, I learn the messages in the story.. All the stories in the Bible are all lies, the letter killeth.. I learn the messages in them.. The Torah is not a history textbook.. It is a manual to guide my step. Like a lamp..

This your own case I no understand sha.
Carry on.