Deadlytruth's Posts
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joeyfire:Then why are we all now asking for a restructuring back to the independence constitution which we operated until Ironsi appeared on the scene through the back door? Do you wish to go back to a constitution under which Nigeria was not working? Den nor give you your brain keep na. Why you nor dey use am at least small small? |
SmartPolician:He ordered genocides in Odi (Ijaw land) and Zakibiam (Tiv land) because security operatives were killed but when the same thing happened in Ota and Shagam (both Yoruba land) he pretended not to be aware. If that wasn't tribalism, then what was it? |
DMerciful:I have put it to you that an attempt was made twelve years later to correct the blunder and Professor Nwabueze was chosen to do it believing that he, being endowed with hindsight of the danger of his actions under Ironsi, was in the best position and was most likely to do the reversal but unfortunately went ahead to further centralize powers just as he did under Ironsi. So who are you blaming for the retention of this unpopular ideology if not the very people who introduced it? Why did you shy away from addressing this fact in your last comment above? |
joeyfire:You obviously have no superior arguments to the poser I gave up there. Why do you want us to blame Awolowo for tribalistic politics and not Ironsi for the subversion of the 1963 constitution? Since when did what is good for the goose become bad for the gander? |
DMerciful:I have put up a simple analogy above for you but rather than answer yes or no you have chosen to still hammer on your question which made me give that analogy. Will you yourself as an individual believe in working under the guidance of an agreement with a person who you know has a reputation of easily reneging on the agreements he enters into? Are you aware that in 1978 an attempt was made to correct Ironsi's blunder when Obasanjo, as military HOS, gave the charge to Professor Nwabueze (the same man who advised Ironsi to impose unitary system on the country just 12 years earlier on) to, through the 1978 Constitutional Conference, come up with recommendation on necessary ammendment of the exclusive, concurrent and residual lists only for Nwabueze to further transfer more items from both the concurrent and residual lists to the exclusive list claiming he wanted national unity exactly as he did under Ironsi even though he had by virtue of the costly Biafra war and the plundering of the Niger Delta wealth by other regions come to see with his own eyes the danger in having a center too strong? If you want a link to the story in which he made this confession with his own mouth I will gladly furnish you with it here and now. |
DMerciful:Then you are obviously not a Nigerian. If you knew the circumstances of mutual suspicion that led to the making of that structure in the first instance you wouldn't ask this question at all. If you and another person are heavily skeptical of each other and totally lack mutual trust and because of that you draw up a deed of agreement and both sign it, only for you to later uncover instances of violation of that deed by the other party, will you ever agree to work with that person under any kind of deed of agreement again? Wouldn't you believe that he is not trustworthy or disciplined enough to subject himself to any form of agreement? |
Idiko1:Only among Igbos do you find people dismiss hard facts backed up with documental evidence without providing superior contrary facts. This national broadcast is documented in a gazzete in the national archives. They are not conjectures or opinions at all. If you want a link to the original copy of Ironsi's national broadcast as reproduced below, you will gladly be furnished with it except you are just one of the lazy ipobians who hate to read. |
DMerciful:Exactly! Likewise, the Old Regions became unconstitutional under Ironsi who had changed them to mere groups of provinces which was a new arrangement in his own unitary constitution. You made my day. Thank you. |
gidgiddy:You yourself know it deep down in your heart that If Ironsi never reneged on his oath of office but actually defended the 1963 constitution in those circumstances as he swore to, Nigeria wouldn't have taken the turn that led it to this failed state. Nigeria worked from Independence till the day Ironsi misadventured into politics. The person who introduced an evil into a system is usually blamed for the failure of that system. Adam introduced sin and we all who came after him became sinners committed far more terrible sins, but it is Adam and not us the bible blames for destroying Gods original plan for man. Tribalistic politics is one big problem today which we are all guilty of but if asked, you Igbos don't blame those of us who now do it but quickly blame Awolowo who, according to you people, introduced it. You don't ask why those who came After Awolowo couldn't correct it but even did worse. You exonerate those who carried tribalistic politics to new heights and keep hammering that Awolowo introduced it so he should take all the blame alone. Though Awolowo didn't actually introduce tribalistic politics or tribalism, Zik did. I only cited this issue to show that even you Igbos agree very much with the philosophy that a person who introduced an evil is actually to be held responsible for whatever damage that evil does to the society whether in the short or long term, but only that when it comes to the issue of the destruction of the original constitution of Nigeria you operate double standards and shy away from applying that same philosophy to Ironsi who introduced it obviously because he is Igbo like you. See yourselves? Why do you want Nigeria to blame Awolowo (assuming he introduced it) for the damage tribalistic politics has done to Nigeria rather than those who came after him and did worse in that act, but want Nigeria to blame the destruction of our original constitution on those who came after Ironsi and allegedly did worse as against the Ironsi himself who introduced the act of tampering with a truly people's constitution? |
danilmo:He labelled Oshiomhole a godfather because Oshiomhole advised him to run an inclusive government and embark on fundamentally impactful infrastructural projects. Those who joined him in his fraudulent anti-godfatherism campaign are now crying that Ekenhuan Road, Benin-Abraka Road and lots others are yet to be done up to halfway since five years ago when the constructions started. |
Youngjohnosas:Don't mind them. They pretend not to have seen Osunbor or known Ambrose Alli who was not only very handsome but extremely brilliant, humane, humble and so kindhearted that as an incumbent governor he would still go to University of Benin Teaching Hospital to perform surgical operation for patients suffering ailments related to his Morbid Anatomy field of specialization. |
Indispensable85:I just pity Edo APC for recently picking Kabaka as the party's youth leader. Kabaka is likely to defect at the slightest bait. |
onuman:So you really believe that after the SS and SE jointly exiting Nigerian in mutual collaboration, the SE will then allow the SS to go its separate way? |
[quote author=onuman post=108887884] |
nonxo007:So going by your definition of godfatherism in that image you uploaded, how exactly did Oshiomhole try to exert authority on Obaseki? Care citing specific instances? Oshiomhole only tried to settle the rift between Obaseki and Samson Osagie led party members who were complaining of Obaseki's exclusive approach to governance. Oshiomhole advised him to be more accommodating and inclusive and that was all he deliberately distorted to Oshiomhole trying to play godfather over him. Is the PDP which helped him sing the godfatherism song not complaining too of that same exclusive approach to governance today as seen in trading of words over harmonization by which Obaseki has only been appointing those who came with him from APC and nothing, I mean NOTHING for the old PDP which saved him from embarrassment? |
tesppidd:Don't mind them. They sit far away in SE and NC speaking authoritatively on what they have no deep knowledge of about Edo State. Oshiomhole only picked Obaseki because he sincerely, but mistakenly, adjudged him a worthy successor who would be loyal to him and at the same time have the passion to continue with his works, not knowing that the likes of Oba and others who counseled him to perish the thought of having Obaseki succeed him knew exactly what they were saying. |
nonxo007:So you don't know that Obaseki himself is trying to emerge as the new godfather of Edo State and PDP generally? I guess you didn't watch Wike speak about him recently on AIT. |
Nairobi33:Savage! |
israelmao:Can we also use the same logic to say that it was a divine arrangement by God to use IBB to put Obasanjo in power in 1999 so as to give Yorubas a chance? Let me tell you this. If the SS had had an opportunity to chose whom among the six SS governors of those days to represent them in Abuja as VP and finally president, Donald Duke would have been the unanimous choice. |
gidgiddy:You are just pretending not to get the import of the whole argument. Let's look at it this way: Ironsi met a car in a good and perfect working condition. The car was being used by the public and no member of the public complained about it in any way.But he insisted the car was not working well and argued that the engine should be changed. The people told him they made the car themselves and was not having any problem whatsoever. But Ironsi went ahead and dismantled the car, replaced the engine with a bad one and the car began to malfunction. The people again asked him to remove the engine and replace it with the old one. He refused still. Then a section of the people killed him and replaced he himself with Gowon. Immediately, Gowon began trying to restore the previous engine to the car but kept on consulting the people who made the car for directives on how to reinstall the original engine correctly to enable the car work perfectly as before. This repair process was going on smoothly as the people who made the car were giving him the correct directives on the repair process. But somewhere along the line, Ojukwu came and began to ask that the whole car plus the engine be broken down completely and the parts thrown away in different directions. He threatened to do it himself if the people refused to pressure Gowon into doing his bidding. At this point it became necessary to fight off Ojukwu first and later return to continue with the repair of the car. So Gowon had to halt the repairs and on the people's directive make a few alterations which would make the car suitable to be used in fighting off Ojukwu successfully. Do you blame Gowon and the people for discontinuing with the repairs or the very Ojukwu who threatened to destroy the car completely should the repairs continue? At the point where Ojukwu began to threaten fire and brimstone the people had no choice other than to bow to any strategy that would successfully keep him in check. So the conclusion of the matter is that Gowon was only trying to repair a seriously damaged car but had to halt the process because of the need to first stave off another threat to the car as a whole, while Ironsi decided to damage the car when he met in perfectly working condition. So who between the two of them is really guilty of the fact that the car ended up being destroyed? |
gidgiddy:Gowon consulted widely before he made his policies and that is why not only the North but even the Yorubas and Southern minorities supported his administration. For example Gowon's states creation wasn't a unilateral military decision. He consulted widely and was advised that the minorities of both North and South wanted subnational units of their own to extricate them from the stranglehold of the big three ..Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo. Did anyone stage any public protest against his decision to create states unlike how they did when Ironsi created provinces without consulting anyone? There the difference laid. |
gidgiddy:Assume you were a Northerner under those circumstances back then which were as follows: 1. Due to mutual suspicion and fears of domination of one another between Northerners and Southerners, everyone agreed to a decentralized structure anchored on the regions as the federating units which would be autonomous and independent of the center. This agreement was made in London and one of its core provisions was that should the need ever arise, the agreement could only be ammended only by exactly the kind of elected pan-Nigerian representatives that gathered in London to make it. Everyone including Ironsi's kinsmen's representatives signed it. 2. This document was brought back home and everyone's fear and mutual suspicion disappeared because the provisions of the agreement clearly put in place checks and balances enough to prevent domination of one tribe or region by another. So the sovereign people of Nigeria welcomed it wholeheartedly and joyfully. A great nation and possible world power was now being looked up to courtesy of the aura of sacrosanctness around that agreement. The agreement also clearly spelt out how to replace any elected office holder who may die while in office. 3. On his day of inauguration as Army GOC, Ironsi stood before the whole world and solemnly swore never to tamper with that agreement but to defend and protect that it at all times and in all circumstances, and he was applauded. Northerners took him for his words in good faith. This further heightened the people's belief in their new country. 4. Three years later, i.e. in 1963, a need actually arose for ammendment of the agreement and it was done by all the people's duly elected representatives exactly as spelt out in that document. This further reinforced the people's belief that the rule of law was in action as against the rule of man or rule by an Oligarchy. 5. That same year, some politicians were accused of trying to topple the democratically elected government, convicted, though under questionable circumstances, and were punished as prescribed by that agreement.... meaning that the agreement was still being adhered to. 6. Now, six years into that agreement, some army officers under Ironsis headship mutinied and murdered so many political leaders in cold blood creating vacumm in the seats of power here and there. The duly elected political leaders who survived that carnage consulted the documented agreement and came up with names to to fill in the vacumms in accordance with the provisions of that agreement. But Ironsi who had solemnly sworn to protect and defend that agreement kicked against them and threatened them into surrendering power to him thereby reneging on his sacred oath taken on his inauguration day. Then he never tried the coupists who tried to topple a democratically elected government despite there was already a precedent to that which he should have just followed. That was his second violation of the sacred agreement he swore on oath to defend. 7. After forcing himself into office, he now proceeded to pick up that very agreement document, read through it and began to unilaterally rewrite it without being an elected representative of any of the people that made up Nigeria. Then he lied that he had consulted all Nigerians and was told by them that the agreement made in London was no longer in their interest thus giving him the go ahead to draft an entirely new one on their behalf. Please when exactly did he conduct a referendum or public hearing to this effect? Meanwhile the Nigerians he was talking about were in the streets protesting that their original mutual agreement made in London and signed by everyone should never be done away with. 8. Against genuine public outcry to the contrary, Ironsi went ahead and tampered heavily with that document thereby violating and making total nonsense of the sacrosanctness which all citizens had always accorded it. It was indeed a national embarrassment to Nigerians that a barely educated army officer who became GOC not even by merit could within seconds shatter the sovereign will of the people expressed painstakingly through their representatives in London just because he had a gun in his hands which he should rather be using to fight enemies and intruders across the country's borders. Like I said, assume you were a Northerner of from any other region different from the Eastern Region, would you be of the thought that Ironsi had any good intention behind his action hence deserved to live a minute longer given how he was flagrantly violating agreements that had been diligently abided by through six years by all and sundry? Secondly, did Gowon behave so arrogantly like Ironsi to warrant being viewed with suspicion as with Ironsi? If anything Gowon actually consulted the public and worked with public opinion. Can you cite an instance in which Ironsi allowed public opinion to influence his decisions and policies? That Gowon had recognized and one time elected political leaders of thought like Awolowo, Edwin Clark, etc in his cabinet meant that he didn't really rule with military fiat but that his administration had some tappings of democratic legitimacy unlike Ironsi's which was all about army, army, army, army.........with the perception that politicians are evil and to hell with bloody civilians. So why wouldn't the public treat Gowon better and have faith in his reforns which were all from the advice he received from public opinion? |
gidgiddy:First of all, what Gowon tampered with wasn't the Independence/1963 constitution but the unitary constitution which he inherited from Ironsi. Northerners couldn't have sent delegates to Gowon as they did to Ironsi because Gowon was actually in the process of reversing the mutilated Ironsi constitution back to the status quo ante which they pleaded with Ironsi for. One of your brothers here has sharec a link which proves clearly that Gowon abolished Ironsi's groups of provinces and restored the regions with their autonomous fiscal and administrative structures but only had to redefine the distributable pool revenue allocation in the wake of the 12 states which however still retained the main 50% retention and 30% remittance. You can look up that link. |
flokii:That is why whoever sees through their deceptive antics or disagrees with their revisionist narratives of history automatically becomes Yoruba in their eyes. If they could label a well known Igbo man, Joe Igbokwe, as a Yoruba man just because he doesn't flow with their narratives but chooses to be objective in his view, then is it us the non-Yorubas here in a faceless forum they won't so label for not buying their revisionist tales? |
christistruth01:Just imagine! And the same Ojukwu who gladly accepted the appointment of Eastern Region governor by Ironsi who skipped a whooping six senior Eastern origin officers ahead of him would later have the moral temerity to warn that the appointment of Gowon over Ogundipe had set a precedent of disrespect of seniority which would affect Nigeria Army for long. Ojukwu was a damn hypocrite! David Ejoor and Hassan Katsina both said it publicly back then that Ironsi lied in his national broadcast when he claimed that his decrees were all ratified by the Supreme military council. They added that he deliberately made his constitution review committee nearly 100% Igbo in composition because he knew that with people of other regions in a sizeable proportion in that committee, his push for Unitary system would not materialize when subjected to voting. |
T9ksy:Okay. I now understand why Ademoyega fell for those guys' dummy. I too have always wondered how a set of coup plotters who wanted to install a new government characterized with a strong center would have sincerely been rooting for a hardline federalist like Awolowo to head such a unitary government. |
Christistruth00:This is very revealing as it makes us understand that Ironsi became GOC through wuruwu rather than through merit and seniority yet Ojukwu didn't protest but would many years later shed crocodile tears that seniority wasn't followed in choosing Gowon over Ogundipe to head the new military government which succeeded Ironsi's. Hypocrite Ojukwu. From the brief discription of Wellington Bassey's personality here, it is obvious that had merit and seniority being followed and he was made GOC on the strength of these two criteria, as a disciplined officer without any political ambition the military wouldn't have ever ventured into politics under his watch hence the Nigeria Army wouldn't have lost its professionalism and become divided along tribal lines as it began to happen under Ironsi. |
nku5:I am rolling on the floor with laugher now for the fact that you couldn't comprehend what you read in the gazzete about Gowon's decree in the link you shared. Let me school you a little on it. The Decree is titled "Restoration and Revival Decree" meaning its objective was to override Ironsi's. If you observe very well you would notice that this decree was made on May 27 1967 and Gowon using the expression "Federal Military Government" to describe Nigeria. This proves that before that time he had already made an earlier decree (and that was in 1966 when he just took power) by which he changed Nigeria's official name back to "Federal Republic of Nigeria" from Ironsi's "Republic of Nigeria", and began to reverse some Ironsi's decrees. Now, looking at this additional 1967 decree of Gowon you can see that in the part which concerns finance he only made alterations to the revenues of the distributable pool on pro-rata basis for the new states as it relates to the previously existing formula the regions were using before Ironsi came on board. This gazette of his too doesn't say anything on the main 50% that each region was getting. I hope you know the difference between the statutory 50% and the distributable pool. In case you don't know, here it is: In the independence constitution the regions retained 50% to themselves, remitted 30% to the center and kept the 20% balance in a reserve known as distributable pool from which withdrawals can be made during emergency times and that emergency situation caused by the need to create states to weaken Ojukwu's Biafra was what made it compulsory for Gowon to review the pattern of the distributable pool on prorata basis to still reflect the same proportion as with the regions. So he wasn't changing any revenue distribution formula in this decree at all contrary to your insinuation. |
nku5:You claimed that Ironsi stated it there expressly that revenue system would remain as it was but I didn't see anything like that. What you fail to understand is that after directing all civil servants to now see themselves as national civil servants no longer answerable to the governors of his groups of provinces, you don't need any interpreter to tell you that such directive meant that those civil servants would henceforth remit all revenues the generate to the center. Presently in Nigeria we have federal inland revenue services with offices in the 36 states of the federation. Is there any part of the present constitution that states that they must remit all the revenues they generate to the federal government? There is no need for such provision in the constitution because the word "federal" already make clear that they are answerable to the federal government which they must remit and report to. It is that simple. |
gidgiddy:If their intention of killing Ironsi was the mere fact of his Igboness, they wouldn't have ever first sent two different delegations to plead with him to jettison his plan to tamper with the truly federal constitution. They also wouldn't have pledged to support his government for as long as he wanted to stay provided he punished the coup plotters. Northerners are not really as unreasonable as you Igbos paint them to be. They definitely have their excess but only exhibit these excesses when provoked except in the area of religion where they may not necessarily need provocation to attack other religions' adherents. But politically if you see Notherners attack a person, just know that that person is guilty of first provocation. I lived with them for long and I understand them well. |
nku5:Southerners were being killed in the North by civilian mobs before independence and not by army officers. So your question doesn't really address mine which is about why Northern army officers killed Ironsi. Unfortunately, I have opened your link and saw nothing on revenues in any of the schedules. Would you mind being specific about the page it is located? I searched the entire 14 pages line by line and found nothing on your claim that revenue sharing formula was left intact. Please be reminded that we were practising federalism and resource control hence we can't be talking of sharing formula in respect to that period. If sharing formula later came into the picture through Ironsi's decree, then it is a proof that he introduced unitary system that goes with sharing as we currently have it in Nigeria today. Still expecting the specific mention of the page in question anyway. |
ochejoseph:So state police is now no longer vulnerable to being used by governors to perpetuate themselves in power and hound political foes? So state police has lost its possiblity of metamorphosing into regional army to be used for secession pursuits? These people are obviously tired of living in denial. They have always opposed state police both on the legislative chambers of NASS and in every national confab with the above excuses. I can't imagine that it took these Notherners being raped and massacred by terrorists for donkey years for them to understand that a decentralized internal security architecture is the only way to curb insecurity in a highly populated multi-ethnic society like Nigeria. |
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