₦airaland Forum

Musawisdom, provide the ahadith please and tell us the benefits of the mutilation. I mentioned a hadith where prophet is reported to have said remove the tip but do not destroy. FGM has different types. while the one described above is the least dangerous, the other types, I can mention and mention the evils therein are very very dangerous and are being practiced among Muslims with the erroneous belief that they are sunnah.

Even if sunnah, there's no harm in not practicing it, So, why subject our children to this violence.

Am still waiting for ur hadith o cos d one I quoted above is said to be daif by some scholars in majority of the countries where it is practiced.

It can be annoying when they talk evil of Islam. They see it alright to insult Muslims and our belief. But how does the Qur'an ask us to speak of them-

And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah,(i.e their gods)lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did. [Quran, chapter-6, Verse-108][b][/b]

@ this point, I believe you are arguing not because there is a tangible reason to. I'll take ur points one after the other.

maclatunji: ^You misunderstand my point. Of course, knowledge of Islam is important. What I am saying is this: knowing and understanding a concept is one thing, being able to apply it effectively without constraints is another.

Are you saying there are no people who might be able to apply it? you probably arent ready to and that is no one's problem but you shouldnt take the job of discouraging others. I like to talk in terms of the ideal and even when people try, they would have tried and would even get the reward of trying. pessimist views on anything is very bad. You wont try let alone achieve anything that way.

For me, there are two classes of Muslims in the Southwest where I live and know-of:

1. The Muslims by name who by all sincere parameters would not qualify to be called Muslims.

May I ask you what the definition of Muslim is? It is statements like this that cause problems. I'd really like to hear your definition of that. And if truly you think this category exists, why again were you asking if there were people unaware of certain things I was talking about?

2. Muslims with basic understanding of their religion who strive to practice Islam to the best of their ability.

how about those beyond the basics. and btw, they also strive. are they not residents in the southwest? oh!, they dont live near you

My posts pertain to Category No.2.  and I am saying that most men in this category understand what deols is talking about. Their failure to effectively implement those things are mostly because they face serious challenges, not because they are ignorant or wicked. Those challenges could be economic, social or cultural.

I made it clear from the very beginning that most of these things are more cultural than religious and davidylan buttressed my point by saying it is due to the patriarchal nature of our society. why repeat that? and if they face these constraints, why put the burden on their wife whom should be under their protection. why not let the effects of those challenges fall on themselves. sounds like that yoruba statement that means when you cant handle your mate, you go for the powerless .

For example, a husband who lives in Ota and works at Lekki is not likely to be able to help his wife with chores or have the time to play with his children or tolerate his wife's nagging (Pls. All women nag). It isn't because he doesn't know those are his duties but is environment his oppressive and likely to bring-out the worst in him or anybody for that matter.

he cant help her and cannot as well hire a maid? hikmah is all this needs and he cant find time to play with his children? the job must be a 24/7 one. before u know it, he wont be able to pray salaat.

Alternatively, a man marries a woman both are very conscious of Islam  but the man's family falls largely in category 1. The man will have a tough balancing act to do and may not be able to do somethings because of this. For example, washing the baby's nappies/clothes in the presence of his mother who has come for a visit is not advisable, not because he doesn't want to help his tired wife, but because he would be doing more harm to her than good in the long term because Mother-in-Law will find it humiliating in her reasoning and wife will feel the heat eventually. The wife should be patient and understand these things, but if she goes like this is what the hadith says and all that line of argument, she might end-up being husband-less before she can say Jack Robinson and I don't think the hadith intended that for her.

the new convert to Islam's mother would find her daughter's hijab humiliating. should she stop wearing it? these examples are non issues. let him use hikmah(wisdom). let him be diplomatic. would his mother live with him forever. he can hire a maid sef.

You keep finding excuses. people do that a lot when not ready to accept something they knew of but not ready to practice.

I pray Allah makes the deen easy for everyone.

A lot of wisdom in application of knowledge is essential for marriage to work. Yes, there are many irresponsible men (even amongst scholars) but let not any woman think that marriage will be a bed of roses just because of what the Qur'an and hadith say about the roles of men and women in marriage. Those are the ideals but the reality could be quite different. I am saying: hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

that statement in bold, I agree with you on. Now, try c how you can apply that in dealing with your challenges without going against Allah's laws. You'd agree His laws are paramount.

vedaxcool: Mac Permit me to say that you made a very valid point with regards to what makes marriages work, but u lost me where u said knowledge is not an important factor, in fact after fear of allah, knowlede to me is next most important factor, as with knowledge on what are the rights of the parties in a marriage both parties might transgress the limit acceptable to allah, when one reads islamic history, one wld notice a correlation between ignorance and the rise of biddah, more importantly we read of a case where a man going to report his wife to umar r.a for d usual husband and wife palava, on getting to umar r.a house he heard umar's wife also giving umar a tough time, after waiting listening to d arguements he noticed umar beared with his wife arguments through out d arguments, umar came out to attend to the man who brought a complaint to him, the man said to umar r.a that if he umar r.a d leader of the ummah can face this sort of challenges and bear with then he has found the solution to his problem, that is to also be patient with his wife, d point I am making is that u rarely hear scholars tell men to bear with their wives rather it is the other way round, knowledge on how the prophet treated his own wives would suffice to improve the general behavior of men to their wives definately there is need for knowledge in marriage is half of religion, to pratice this half well will require knowledge.

Thank you o. certain things are taken for granted just because people think all they need do is perform the five pillars of Islam and they would be fine. What about our dealings with others, most especially our family. With the best example from the prophet and his companions we would have a perfect life now and in the hereafter. this is where knowledge comes in. Islam is a way of life after all.

I am tempted to ask the men in the house, do we not know many of the things that OP speaks of already? Marriage is never easy because it means two complete strangers (no matter how in love) coming to live together. There are bound to be shocks along the way. For example, husband may find that wife is not as docile as he thought and wife may find that husband is not as patient as she thought him to be before the wedding. As far as I am concerned, the key things needed for a successful marriage as Muslims are:

1. The fear of Allah.

2. Love

3. Communication and mutual trust.

4. Patience.

It is not something that you will master before entering and after you enter everything rolls smoothly. Remember, marriage is probably the only institution that you get the certificate before you take the course.

In short, what I am saying is that the things deols is complaining about are not really because of lack of knowledge but because the practicalities of implementing and applying that knowledge are not easy. May Allah make them easy for us

Well, you cant be so sure that everyone knows of what am saying already and not knowing isn't a bad thing in itself once there's room for learning. knowing and not taking it into practice is worse than not knowing at all. And even if everyone knew already, didnt the almighty Allah refer to us as forgetful? and He speaks of the end time(asr) as a time when all man is in lost except those who believe and enjoin one another to truth and endurance. In essence, I am not here to claim madam-know-it-all but to play a part in enjoining all to the truth and in following the dictates of ALlah.

And as to your point on the things that make marriage successful, luckily u mentioned the fear of Allah as the most important. It is this fear of Allah that would make you do exactly what Allah says. that sums all I have been saying, except that you have a definition of the fear of Allah that I am nt aware of?

practicality of applying the knowledge not easy? that is exactly what someone who doesnt observe salaah would say and is what someone not ready to wear hijab would. do you presume Allah would understand?

If true, he should be severely punished for this crime.

contentment goes a long way in determining how much happy an individual is and a firm belief in Allah as being the one who decrees all things.

[quote author=Dudu_Negro link=topic=887591.msg10360798#msg10360798 date=1331252621]I dont know that any hadith specifically talk about the 99 names. There are rituals of life that mankind, as a living being must observe and participate in, whether or not they are instructed by God or are taught by the Prophet (SAWS). Recital of the 99names is one of such acts of rituals that are invoked, not necessarily in doctrines but by custom found to be very helpful, for living the attributes of Allah.[/quote]this is where you get it wrong. even in an exam, would you describe the leg when asked for the head? Islam is perfect and the dos and donts stated. ANy addition is a going astray wich leads to hell. May Allah save us from that.

[quote author=Dudu_Negro link=topic=887591.msg10361424#msg10361424 date=1331273928]Sweetnecta, you will agree with me that our modern lifestyle and the quest for better knowledge brings us in direct contact and engagements in acts that the Prophet (SAWS) did not know or practice. Are we to disengage and not live in contemporary society because we cannot find reference for their teachings and traditions with the Prophet?[/quote]it depends on what aspect of the contemporary society. the ones that are spiritual, bringing us close to God or the ones aimed at giving us comfort and making life easier. What exactly are those contemporary things yu are talking about.

the moment you'r making sense, am respecting you

A special one for Alhaji Sweetnecta

bn watching since 07. registered in 08.

class 07/08 ?

[size=15pt]I love NL[/size]

kudos to Seun and more grease to ur elbow

ronkeenuf:
Salamalaykum everyone, barka Juma'ah, may Allah grant us all the grace to observe many more jumah.

it used to be on this same thread.

wa alaykum salam

mukina2:
^
that was the purpose of this thread, from the first page, someway along the line . .people just kept posting Barka Juma'ah.

let us keep it going

azeeza:
Umar bin khattab(RA) said "Fear your sins more than your enemy, as your sins are more dangerous to you than your enemies".may almighty Allah forgive our sinn Amin. jumaat Kareem to you all .

I love this. while many are running away from their enemies, they've accumulated sins. froom one babalawo to the other.

thanks for this. May I also say something about Female Genital Mutilation, also called female circumcision.

It is totally different from male circumcision and should be avoided by all. many think it is sunnah but many fatawah have been passed on it as just one hadith mentions it and is even seen as daif.

Please o, while the male one has benefits, the female has none but complications abound.

@Abujabir 24

I wish you the very best in your Exams

vedaxcool:
let me barge in, on the first isssue about surname or no surname, I think it should be clear that a lot of men would prefer their wives bear their name, but out of their own ignorance ( I think) would not let their wives bear their own fathers' name which is more Islamic than the Husbands name, some thing I have noticed, women from very powerful families tend to keep their Family name than those from lesser background, some of these matter bothers on Ignorance and poverty, and this is where the islamic scholars should have enlightened the Ummah more, Our scholars over focus on women, women do this women do that bla bla bla, but what they fail to see that balance is required, the Qur'an clearly stated that men and women would have similar rights in their marriage but men have a degree over women because they are their protectors, hence what our scholars should have done is clearly tell both sides what their responsibilities and rights are, i tend to view the issue of marriage to be more of men fault if it go awful, I might be wrong, and i have seen very mean married women, but why I say these is that the Man is the C.E.O of his enterprise, and when the enterprise fails, the C.E.O is ultimately responsible, that is why our scholars should place more emphasis on the role of men in the household than always focussing on women, a man if his wife insist on using her family name should leave be, knowing that is the more correct option. and deols good thread! keep it up!

The Iyabo Obasanjos of this world come to mind. But any woman married to their family would want that name so people might know.

I agree that men should take the bigger blame when things go wrong. One of the reasons they are the head is to keep things going. to keep everyone happy and good.

thank you

let me also state that cooking, cleaning, washing arent the primary roles of a woman in her marriage. Many scholars have spoken about that.some of Her duties are as follows-

1. to obey her husband(and note, in matters that are reasonable-nothing against Islam) “… the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands)…” 4:34

2. to guard her chastity

3. to take care of his possessions including his children

4.to fulfill his (sexual) needs

3

MY wife is my slave

once a man is married, he feels half his problems are solved. He cant cook no more. his house can now be forever clean and his clothes well washed and ironed. In essence, a maid is at hand. once again, this is in the majority. If you doubt this, wonder why many want the marriage fast just before ramadan

Dont get me wrong o. there's nothing wrong with a woman doing all of those things. In fact, many women pride themselves on the ability to do many of these things. What I just want known is what Islam states as the duty of the wife and those of her husband so that when next  a woman cant do any of these, she wont be seen as a 'bad wife' from the religious context but a cultural one.

what the Qur'an says-
Men are the protectors and maintainers of Women, because Allah has given the one more {strength} than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women re devoutly obedient, and guard in {the husband's} absence what Allah would have them guard,  


Now, you all would agree with me that-

A man who lets his wife pound his yam while she's heavily pregnant is not protecting her. in fact men seem to only think of the part that says to provide without thinking much of the protect.

Another man has just one car but because it was afterall his money spent in the purchase, he cruises around town while his heavily pregnant wife hops from one bus to the other.

give it a thought men. an attitudinal change would be good.

olawalebab:
On the first topic of women bearing her father or husband name. I want to ask, is it a sin for a Lady to bear the name of her Husband? If not, I think it will just be the issue of choice in choosing which name to bear or not to bear.

I am not in a position to give verdicts. i would be too scared to give such but Allah commands that we perform as Salaat. Is it a sin not to? ALlah says to bear the names of our fathers. Is it a sin not to?

On the Second topic, you raise a good point there, there are also many issue that is not given proper attention, you hardly find any Ulama preaching about the responsibility of Parent on their children, they are mostly concern about the responsibility of children on their Parent, Had it being they emphasis more on that, maybe some of these social vices we witness will be reduce.
Ma Salam

you are right. ANd I am so sorry that it is very common among the Muslims of Nigeria to find a man more concerned with marrying more women than taking care of his children. If only a man realises how much gain there is when he brings up his female children in the way of ALlah?? let Muslims talk more of these things.
bi salam

Jarus:
Salam alaikum

wa alaykum salam

zeeleso:
No deols i'm not hausa but most of my friends been hausa can explain why i don't see it around me.

Personally, i would not change to my husband's name. I'll make it compound.
As for the female scholars, i know a lot of knowledgeable females but they never step out into the public to deliver lectures or preach in public.

when u make it compond, what would it be like? it sounds better than just his surname.

And abut the female scholars, it is more about what the male Imams have been preaching but some of them do talk in public. FOMWAN does that.

these days, the mass media is more in use apart from events regarding particular organisations. I dont have a problem with women speaking on TV especially when they are well covered and the radio would be perfect as the voice of a woman is not an awrah (forbidden for others outside of her family to see).

sino:
Territoriality you say lol, the funniest thing i have noticed is[b] how easy they tend to forget about the permisibility of a second wife.[/b] Give a topic on mathna to a sister, she'll adequately tackle it and praise its virtues but when it comes to reality na different story entirely (some due to the way brothers go about it). What i am trying to say is, there are so many issues which boils down to the understanding and sincerity of the 2 peeps involved.

that sounds like an issue you have with the women . I am one of such women I agree with polygamy only because it is something permissible in Islam. I wouldnt want to share my husband with another woman. The good thing is, not wanting a co-wife isnt haram in Islam. it is one of those things of the heart.

Now, you will see some so called Alfas, especially those MSS types telling women that encouraging their husbands to marry other women is a sign of EIman. where did they hear that from. I may be speaking out of Ignorance, So am challenging everyone here to please provide a verse of the Qur'an or ahadith that speaks of such. it is an example of how Men change things to suit them . waAllahu a'lam.

It will be wrong to go against Allah's instruction definitely, but is it possible that out of necessity a female can change her name to her husband's, maybe for property or something else? You know we live in a complicated society already.
nyanga or misplaced priorities all join, she made her choice na.

the laws of inheritance are clear in Islam. I wish we could all follow Allah's laws indefinitely. I think it is unfair for the wife to want everything to herself especially in situations where the dead husband has parents or children from other marriages. It wouldnt be a problem if it is about a joint business they had abi.

and about the organisations and counselling. Many are now doing that. But what makes an organisation are the people in it. What would be our own contribution? join an organisation and encourage them to do these things or start ours?

jay bee:
Na real wa oh, no be by force nah

Salaam Sis Deols

wa alaykum salam

davidylan:
the very first thread where i see muslims having a good banter!   they are human afterall . . .

at least deols and i agree on one thing for once.  

we'll agree on better things in the future InshaAllah.

this is not a muslim-only problem and is also a deep issue in christianity as well. Pastors spend all their time hammering on a woman submitting to her husband YET forget that the preceding verses did say a man should love his wife as himself FIRST before admonishing her to submit.

this makes me feel it is less a religious issue as much as it is a product of the patriarchal nature of our society.

I agree but isnt religion supposed to shape our lives for the better

tbaba12345:
*clears throat:

* ignores Oga maclatunji and Madam deols:

on topic 2:

i. ) Muslim women need to start becoming scholars and dā‘ī too and learn about their deen, Some of the greatest scholars in our history were women. Abu bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) used to seek advice from Aisha (RA).

Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr was another female scholar of hadiths: the leading scholar at her time was also a female : Fatimah al-Juzadniyyah taught both men and female because she was considered the greatest and most knowledgeable in some of the classical texts in her time.  There are thousands of female scholars that litter Islamic history.

It looks like women are less interested in Islamic scholarship and because it is a male dominated field now. The men talk about what they feel comfortable with.

I dont think WOmen are less interested than men are. Women are just never having enough opportunities as do men. In fact, local Imams detect seeing female preachers(not hearsay) and some bring fake fatawahs regarding WOmen preaching.

tbaba12345:
^^ my point is as long as the landscape is dominated by male scholars: that is what you will get:

The men will talk about what they are comfortable with and less about their responsibility. Many women do not even know the rights they have over their husbands.

I feel that the growth of women scholarship might help address the imbalance.

I agree with the female scholarship bridging the gaps. many women are unaware of their rights and men keep feeding them the wrong things. An example is a woman who accepted the recitation of a surah by her husband as sadaaqi without realising that such is acceptable only when the man is not capable of paying- when he is poor. such things pain me to my bones. to me, if he can afford millions, why not **

I really dont understand why many pple are against the op. He just made a point, a reasonable one, I believe.

I understand him because I wouldnt want a male doctor examine me.

A friend of mine in the USA had a preference for a female doctor when she gave birth. We can easily ask for that in Nigeria too. In fact, many obstetrics textbooks talk about registering preferences for delivery on the first ante natal visit.

that there are more male obs/gyn in Nigeria doesnt mean pple who would want things differently shouldnt ask for it.

@op, shariah truly solves many problems. if only humans would yield

[size=15pt]why wont Nigerians do the right thing. [/size]

^ wa iyaka @ bros Sino

jemijay:
Asalamu alaikum. my name is jemila and i live in the F.C.T.
Was really kinda xcited when i found this site coz its really informative
and educative especially to the muslim ummah.

wa alaekum salam. welcome jameela. its a pleasure to have u here.

sino:
Assalam alaykum brothers and sisters,its always nice to be here. I no be newbie o!(now that felt better lol),been around for a while, just that i enjoy reading other peeps opinion and contribution more than me posting mine. Well i'll try to contribute more in this section inshallah.
by the way, i'm sino (saino), reside in lagos and working towards being a better muslim mashallah!

wa alaykum salam.

maclatunji:
^You have a right to act and I have a right to react. That is what happens when human beings interact. (Rhyming this morning).

This user name wants to make you puke sometimes, so leave that ego tripping.

As for being a 'sorry excuse for a man', I doubt you would recognise a man if you saw one. Now, we are reading like Tom and Jerry again!

You need to develop a bigger sense of humour, I will give you this advice for free. Actually, [b]it is you who is projecting most of the time[/b] but you cannot see that.

You bore me this morning with your attempt at firing back.

ok. we av heard you, or at least I have . can the derailment stop so People can put in meaningful comments to the main subject of discussion?

maclatunji:
And sorry I make you want to puke sometimes, you get me in that mode when you start playing 'Miss Independent' and 'I am too serious'. It is also partly because of your 'big ego.'

and why should that be your problem.

What Mukina2 means is that we have Like/Hate/Like relationship which for all intent and purposes is true. MDSocks said the same thing eons ago and he was right

.

you must have been in the la la land o . hate/like? u bn dreaming bros. no wonder u think my comments are directed at u sometimes. for all intent and purposes, get this- u are just a user name So I cant hate u . if i find a reasonable post by you, I can like it.

I avoid saying my mind sometimes, so i do what is on my location status. but now, I thnk u shld know that ur replies to my posts, ur too many words, ur whinings and rants,supposed 'tease' have always given me an impression of you as 'a sorry-excuse-for-a- man' (I just had to say it) eventually, I cldnt be bothered by them.

sino:
Assalam alaykum deols, on the first issue, i don't think its a yoruba tradition, i think it crept into our society just like engagement during walimotu nikkah. A faithful muslim man wouldnt insist on changing of name, just as you said its encouraged in islam for the wife to keep her father's name. I believe its not haram for the wife to adopt the name of her husband. Perhaps its even the women that eagerly change their name to do nyanga se dem don marry
on the 2nd issue, most of the nikkah ceremony i have graced, the roles of both parties are always discussed. My own problem is with the process of getting the patner, most of the islamic organisations do a poor job in match making and providing adequate councelling for their members even after the nikkah.

I agree with you it is not a yoruba culture but a western one. It is not haram when Mrs is boldly written before it but this isnt done in all cases. for example the ECOWAS passport has no marital status on it. when a woman is called by other than her father's name, it is a direct disobedience to that statement of Allah, call them by the name of their fathers. the verse continues to say and if you dont know the names of their fathers, call them your brethren in the religion. which kind nyanga. .womwen usually have misplaced priorities. there's more to a marriage than the name

yes. the roles are discussed during the solemnization. But that of the women is always over emphasised. Apart from during the wedding ceremonies, there is little said of the roles of a man. the effect of that is what I have problems with. how many men see playing with their children as a religious duty. if pple never knew, we can @ least start mentioning them.

ISSUE No2

this is common generally and more common among preachers(Imams and alfas).

they seem to emphasise the role of the woman in a marriage more than they do that of the man. You even hear some highly ridiculous, fake stories like that of a woman who put her legs under fire to cook for her husband as an example of a good woman. They dont talk much of the good man and when the husband isnt so endowed, the woman is to understand, whereas an erring wife should get a co-wife.

Of course, a woman takes the position of honor and her roles are very important.

But, what happens when she becomes the reason, almost all of the time when the marriage isnt working, when her child isnt doing well, etc is, It puts the men in a position where they think they can do no wrong and sometimes, the women in harms way. *I wish I can explain this better than this*

certain roles of the men, or emphasis on them being good to their wives I didnt hear until I started reading Islamic literatures. Examples of them-

*The Noble Qur'an 4:19

O ye who believe! ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness. .

*"The best of you are they who behave best to their wives."(hadith)

*:"The more civil and kind a Muslim is to his wife, the more perfect in faith he is."(hadith)

*"Among my followers the best of men are those who are best to their wives, and the best of women are those who are best to their husbands. To each of such women is set down a reward equivalent to the reward of a thousand martyrs. Among my followers, again, the best of women are those who assist their husbands in their work, and love them dearly for everything, save what is a transgression of Allah's laws."

*“The best of you are those who are best to their families.” (Tabarani, Sahih)

Sweetnecta:
^Actually, no sane woman should abandon her family name for any man's family name.

I will not look at a woman who insist that she must bear my family name without her's in it.
I prefer a woman who will bear her father's name. period.

thank u sir.

zeeleso:
In my immediate society and group of friends, I haven't noticed deols observation of men not allowing ladies bear their father's name should they choose. Most Ladies i know make the choice themselves, keep the father's name, make it compound or change to husband's but in the end it was their choice.

it seems you are hausa and yes, it isnt common among hausas. that is why I tried not to generalise.

mukina2:
Deols & Maclatunji you remind me of tom and jerry

*cough* cough*

tom and jerry isnt that something pple enjoy. I think this, is nauseating and .