₦airaland Forum

DoctorAlien:
I don't know if you view Jesus as someone who wants to exercise arbitrary power but is being hindered, hence your bizarre notion that His power has limits.

If somebody gives me an order contrary to what I want to do, then the person is limiting me. But if the orders I receive from somebody are the same things I want to do, then I am not limited in any way. Jesus and His Father are one in will and purpose. Whatever the Father purposes to do, that is also what Jesus purposes to do.

How then is Jesus' power limited? Read Matt. 28:18 again. Does this show any limits to Jesus' power?

if you had left my post the way it is , instead of cutting parts of my points off, and if you had read the scriptures about Jesus being in subjection to another, you would have undertood.
I asked
If you have all power, but your will is subjected to the will of another, you do not do anything with it unless that person tells you to, is the power not limited?
I do not view jesus as such!
you refused to talk about jesus being given power.

DoctorAlien:
Explain.

after you had answered the questions you cut off, the one relating to servant form!

DoctorAlien:
I'm sorry but it was John speaking in Jn. 5:18 and not religious leaders. Can't you see?

John was speaking to jesus?
who Did jesus respond to in the next verse, John or the those who wanted to kill him.

jesus has stated that they do not understand what he is trying to tell them, and at no time in their conversation did jesus state he is equal to the father!, he even asked them why they try to kill him because he said " I am God's son.(God here is being understood to be the father)

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

"IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was GOD." Jn. 1:1

We know that the Word is Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ was GOD(again, this clearly shows equality with the Father), could GOD have been created?

"in the beginning was the the word", God does not have a beginning.
"and the word was with God" who is the God the word was with, is the word that same person?

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

1 Cor. 30 calls Jesus Christ the wisdom of GOD. If you say Jesus Christ was created, was wisdom created?

sir, what did wisdom say in proverbs 8: 22-30

DoctorAlien:
I'm shocked. Show me where the Scripture clearly says that Jesus Christ was created.

Please don't quote your jw NWT for me.

done that already!, but you don't believe that proverbs 8:22- 30 was referring to jesus, so I'll wait till you tell me about your understanding of the verses I quoted.

DoctorAlien:
I see. You quoted JW Bible for me. I searched "Prov. 8:22 NWT" and the first result I saw was a jw site. I'm sorry but no other version of the Bible used the word "produced" in Prov. 8:22. KJV used the word "possessed". So do many others.

I suppose you read your jw Bible. I'm very sure a lot of Bible truths have been distorted in that translation, hence your distorted view of the Scripture.

using any translation of your choice, please explain proverbs 8: 22- 30 , expecially the part that was coloured.
pls stop cutting parts of my post off

DoctorAlien:
"And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life." 1 Jn. 5:20.

What truth is here?

now pls kindly tell:
"And we know that the (1)Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know (2)him that is true, and we are in (3)Him that is true, even in [color=yellow](4)his[/color] Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life." 1 Jn. 5:20.

1.who is the "son of God" in (1)coloured blue above
2.who is "him" in (2)coloured red above
3. who is the "him" in (3)coloured green above
4.who is the "his" in (4)coloured yellow above

note , Jesus does not have a son called Jesus.
Jesus himself had told told us who the only true God is!

DoctorAlien:
Satan tempted Jesus to see if Jesus would obey him i.e. fall into sin. The aim of the temptation of Jesus wasn't for Jesus to become a medium through which GOD the Father could be tested.

quote verse 5 and 6 and tell us what you understand

DoctorAlien:
Is anything ambigous about matt. 4:5-6? Jesus is the Son of GOD. GOD the Son. Everybody knows that.

So, the temptation of Jesus Christ has now become "the temptation of Jesus to test GOD"?

Even if you say that Jesus was referring to GOD the Father when He used "the LORD thy GOD" in Matt. 4:7, then you mean that Jesus told Himself "Thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy GOD" because Satan wasn't tempting GOD the Father. But we know from the same verse that Jesus didn't make that statement to Himself but to Satan.

You constantly contradict both yourself and the Scripture.

plus quote verse 5 and 6 and tell what you think the devil implied by his statement.

DoctorAlien:
Check your dictionary. Whatever it says omnipresent means, that is my definition of omnipresent.

Now, answer the question: are you saying that Jesus is not omnipresent?

ill tell you, after you have told me your own view of omnipresent

DoctorAlien:
You said that Jesus' power is limited. This in itself is a sacrilege. The Scripture will once again prove you wrong: "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matt. 28:18.

If Jesus has all the power in Heaven and in earth, how is His power limited?

Even if you employ multitudes of words, they cannot obfuscate what the Scripture clearly teaches.

if you had left my post the way it is , instead of cutting parts of my points off, and if you had read the scriptures about jesus being in subjection to another, you would have undertood.
If you have all power, but your will is subjected to the will of another, you do not do anything with it unless that person tells you to, is the power not limited?

jesus words itself should have shown you the truth, he said he was giving power!

DoctorAlien:
"Who, being in the form of GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant... " Phil. 2:6-7

Clearly, Jesus is equal with GOD but He chose to make himself a servant. And since he obeyed GOD faithfully, He could be rightly referred to as GOD's servant. He also served humanity. So, Jesus took servanthood upon Himself. He made himself a servant.

you cherry pick the issue you want to argue about, cutting off the rest of the points.
If you have issues with only one point, it means the other nine are correct!

The verse itself has shown you that despite taking on a servant form, he still is not equal to God.
let me ask you, is jesus still in the flesh he came to earth with?
is jesus still in servant form presently.
you choose to obey someone's laws, orders, directives, will , command, even till the point of death, you are not equal to or with that person.

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

You implied that the Jews tried to kill Jesus because he told them that "His Father is different from theirs."

Let us see what the Bible says is the reason why the Jews tried to kill Jesus: "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he...said also that GOD was his Father, making himself equal with GOD. " Jn. 5:18.

Here, the Bible unequivocally states that Jesus made Himself equal with GOD.

interesting, so you believe the statements of those religious leaders who jesus himself said they do not understand what he is saying!

DoctorAlien:
Hitherto you have told many lies, and this is one of them. "I AM" translates "ego eimi" in Greek and not "eimi". This is the same name GOD proclaimed to Moses, and Jesus takes it as his name. What can that mean? He is equal to GOD the Father.

1. point to some of those lies and let's see if they are lies
2. If you had read my words very well you would have understood better, I never said "I am" translates to "eimi in Greek. look at my words again, this is what I said :

"go look at the [u]Greek words[/u]translated to "I am" and you will see it, expecially the Greek word "eimi"."

I know what I was saying when I said Greek words, I know "I am " is ego eimi, that's y I said words instead of word when referring to " I am" .
After you had looked at the words you can now look at the greek word "eimi, which is part of the words "ego eimi".
I know they are two words, but I want you to look at the meaning of "eimi", I never said "eimi" means "I am". so I did not lie sir.

3.ill advise that you look at the Hebrew word for I am, and the Hebrew text of what God said to Moses.

4. The Greek words " ego eimi" is not always translated as " I am" , even by the kjv.

Stop using puerile logic here. Does the fact that people use "I am" today mean that "I AM" is no longer GOD's name?

that not what I said sir, what im saying is that implying that the use of "I am" means that that person is God is wrong, cus several people used "I am" in the scriptures.
ego eimi is just two greek words used in a sentence, look at the places where " ego eimi " occurs in the scriptures and Check if it's relating to God's name!

Moreover, if Jesus was merely speaking of His existence before Abraham and not taking GOD's name, the Bible would have translated the correct sentence with concord. Do you notice that by the rules of concord, this sentence "before Abraham, I am" is wrong? By the rules of concord, the correct sentence is "before Abraham, I was".

modification of the sentence jesus made will not help, the sentence you made might not conform to the rule, but that is not what jesus said, look at it againnote where the word"was" is located and the difference between you statement and jesus' statement
New International Version
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
New Living Translation
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"
English Standard Version
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Berean Study Bible
"Truly, truly, I tell you," Jesus declared, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

But the Bible reads "I AM" because Jesus qualified himself with GOD's own name. He is equal with GOD the Father.

cutting off the question asked jesus, cutting off the other parts of jesus statement , cutting off the context, just so that you can come to a different conclusion!
The issue was about age!, !not title!.

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

You said that Jesus has a beginning and that that beginning was at the creation.

Here is what the Bible says about Christ: "...and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life." 1 Jn. 5:20

The Bible calls Jesus the true GOD, and refers to him as ETERNAL life. Jesus is eternal.

If you still think Jesus has beginning, check the meaning of the word "eternal".

pls kindly quote the verse in full and ill respond to it, the truth about the verse in in the part you cut off.

DoctorAlien:
Which version of the Bible used the word "produced" in Prov. 8:22?

The new world translation, some other versions used "formed ", "created ", "made", "brought me fought", "possessed".

Secondly, Prov. 8:22 was talking about wisdom, not Jesus Christ. Check verse 12 to see that. GOD created every thing with wisdom; indeed, He is a wise GOD. He is the origin of wisdom.

In verse 22, wisdom says: “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago.” More than just wisdom must be involved here, for that quality never was “produced or created” It never began to exist because Jehovah has always existed and he has always been wise. God’s Son, however, was “the firstborn of all creation.” He was produced, or created; he was the earliest of all of Jehovah’s achievements. The Son existed before the earth and the heavens, as described in Proverbs. And as the Word, God’s own Spokesman, he was the perfect expression of Jehovah’s wisdom.

you do not agree that the verses are referring to jesus, please tell what you understand by the verses(expecially the coloured part)
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 [color=redI was there when he set the heavens in place,[/color]
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence

Now it is clear to me that you have turned away from Bible teachings, in that you said Jesus Christ has a beginning. You said that the beginning of Christ is the beginning of creation. Let's see what the Bible says: "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" Jn. 17:5

your statement will be true only if the world was the first thing God created in the beginning, but you are wrong, read proverbs 8: 22-30.
even angels where rejoicing during the creation of the earth!

The Scripture clearly asserts that even before creation, Jesus was. Again, the Scriptures prove you wrong.

you got it wrong, the scriptures said world, not creation, thank god you are living in the 12th century, you know that there are trillions of other creative works of God apart from this earth, and scientist have shown that this things existed before the earth.
jesus is the firstborn of all creation!

solite3:
you forgot the part that says the lord is that spirit
The spirit of God is the spirit of Jesus so, Jesus is God
But also Jesus is a man, that is why he had to be given authority.
So ur argument is lame

pls tell, is the spirit of God the holy spirit.
always show where you get things from so that anyone interested could crosscheck, pls show the part that says "the Lord is that spirit".

you respond to a post directed at someone else, yet you could not talk about the scriptures quoted their!

johnw74:
see how false jw dolphinheart and all fales jw's twist the scriptures-lie

the word Jehovah is not mentioned in any of those verses,
the greek that "Lord" comes from is "kurios"
which is often used for Jesus

Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD (kurios) said to my Lord (kurios), Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Both Father and Son are called "kurios"

kurios - supreme in authority, God

Father and Son is God as is said in so many verses which I have posted
and will post again if anyone hasn't seen them.


Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Verse 1, it is Jesus that is to be tempted
verse 7, it is the one being tempted that is the Lord thy God.

and there is no disputing that jesus is God

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I know you don't believe that verse, I can post many more just like that one which you won't believe also


Because they are not spiritually discerned, it is the way of the cults to reduce biblical truth to make God comprehensible and understandable by their minds. To this end, they subject God's word to their own reasoning and end in error.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1.Ps 110:1Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
is the above translation correct or wrong?

2.you could not state what the temptation was about, I stated it.

3. pls tell, why is one "kurios" capitalised and the second kurios is not capitalised, secondly, are the two kurios referring to same person?

4. where did you get it that kurios means supreme in authority,God

5. Jesus said " it is written", where was it written? De 6:16
what does that verse say?
“You must not put Jehovah your God to the test the way you put him to the test at Masʹsah.

DoctorAlien:
You agreed that Satan was tempting Jesus Christ, and Christ told him not to tempt the Lord his GOD. There is only one meaning to that: Jesus Christ is the LORD his GOD.

did you read what Satan said in verse 5 and 6, pls explain it.

satan was tempting Jesus Christ to test HIS GOD!, if Jesus carries out that temptation, who will be tested, Jesus or his father who had made the statement that the devil is using?

DoctorAlien:
So, are you saying Jesus is not omnipresent?

what is your definition of omnipresent?

DoctorAlien:
Good. You agree that Jesus is GOD.

sir you saw what I wrote, pls don't alter it

Let us now check the dictionary meaning of the word "almighty":

1. having complete power; omnipotent. (Oxford dictionaries)
2. having unlimited power (dictionary.com)

Now, I have a question for you: is Jesus Christ's power limited?

simple answer(though still complicated) : yes!
why?, as long as you are subjected to someone, as long as someone is your head, as long as someone commands you, as long as you do the will of someone, you are not as powerful as that someone. so despite Jesus having very great power and authority, he is not almighty God.
remember, Jesus himself stated that he was given these authority and power

Ps 110:1Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
Ps 110:2Jehovah will extend the scepter of your power out of Zion, saying: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”
compare with this
Mt 26:64Jesus said to him: “You yourself said it. But I say to you: From now on you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Ps 83:18May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Re 5:12and they were saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”[/b]

only Jehovah is the most, only Jehovah is said to be the Almighty God. use of " almighty" rather than " almighty God" will not help.

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

If you say Jesus is not equal to GOD the Father, why did Jesus make this statement: "...Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM " Jn. 8:58 ?

the words "I am" is just part of the statement "verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am".
jesus was simply telling them he existed before Abraham, go look at the Greek words translated to "I am" and you will see it, expecially the Greek word "eimi".

look at the context, jesus reply has to do with age , and not identity.
furthermore, other persons in the scriptures are recorded to have said "I am" it does not mean they are also God or does it?

Explain the action of the Jews in verse 59 of that same chapter.

got this from a book , but it best explains and anwers your question. You can also read those scriptures to comfirm

"Still in Jerusalem for the Festival of Tabernacles (or, Booths), Jesus goes on teaching vital truths. Some Jews present had just said to him: “We are Abraham’s offspring and never have been slaves.” Jesus responds: “I know that you are Abraham’s offspring. But you are seeking to kill me, because my word makes no progress among you. I speak the things I have seen while with my Father, but you do the things you have heard from your father.”— John 8:33, 37, 38

Jesus’ point is simple: His Father is different from theirs. Unaware of what Jesus means, the Jews repeat their claim: “Our father is Abraham.” ( John 8:39; Isaiah 41:
They are literally his descendants. So they feel that they are of the same faith as God’s friend Abraham.

However, Jesus gives a shocking reply: “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham.” Indeed, a real son imitates his father. “But now you are seeking to kill me,” Jesus continues, “a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.” Then Jesus makes the puzzling statement: “You are doing the works of your father.”— . John 8:39-41

The Jews still do not grasp to whom Jesus is referring. They claim that they are legitimate sons, saying: “We were not born from immorality; we have one Father, God.” Is God really their Father, though? “If God were your Father,” Jesus says, “you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me.” Jesus asks a question and answers it himself: “Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to my word.”— . John 8:41-43

Jesus has tried to show what the consequences of rejecting him are. But now he pointedly says: “You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father.” What is their father like? Jesus identifies him clearly: “That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth.” Jesus adds: “The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”— John 8:44, 47
.
That condemnation angers the Jews, who answer: “Are we not right in saying, ‘You are a Samaritan and have a demon’?” By calling Jesus “a Samaritan,” they are expressing contempt for him. But Jesus ignores their slur, responding: “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.” That this is a serious matter can be seen by Jesus’ startling promise: “If anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.” He does not mean that the apostles and others who follow him will literally never die. Rather, they will never see eternal destruction, “the second death,” with no hope of a resurrection.— John 8:48-51; Revelation 21:8

But the Jews take Jesus’ words literally, saying: “Now we do know that you have a demon. Abraham died, also the prophets, but you say, ‘If anyone observes my word, he will never taste death at all.’ You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died, are you? . . . Who do you claim to be?”— John 8:52, 53
.
It is obvious that Jesus is making the point that he is the Messiah. But rather than directly answer their question about his identity, he says: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar.”— . john 8:54, 55

Jesus now refers back to the example of their faithful forefather: “Abraham your father rejoiced greatly at the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.” Yes, believing God’s promise, Abraham looked forward to the arrival of the Messiah. “You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?” the Jews respond in disbelief. Jesus answers: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”(depending on translation)He is referring to his prehuman existence as a mighty spirit in heaven.— . john 8:56-58

The Jews, enraged by Jesus’ claim to have lived before Abraham, get ready to stone him. But Jesus leaves unharmed.

DoctorAlien:
Who told you that there is superiority and inferiority among the triune GOD? Does the Bible say that any among the three Persons of the Trinity is superior while another is inferior?

1. The scriptures never said anything about three persons in a triune God!
2. The scriptures never said anything about the trinity
3. I've shown on this thread with scriptures and explanation where Jehovah had describe jesus(more than once) as his servant,(no one has said I was wrong)
4. I've shown where jesus described the father as his God or "my God".
5. I've shown where jesus said several times that he was SENT by the father.
6. I've shown where jesus said he does what the father commands him to do
7. I've shown where jesus said "the father is greater than he is"
8. I've shown where jesus told us where his power and authority come from.
9. even the holy spirit that was poured out did not come directly from jesus, he had to request it from the father!
10. I've shown where God, being described as most high, the highest, commands jesus to sit at his right hand

sir, I don't think one should now have to start checking if the scriptures directly said one is superior and the other is inferior.
plus read :
1Co 15:27, 28For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.28But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

1Co 11:3But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; [color=red]in turn, the head of the Christ is God.

DoctorAlien:
When did Jesus begin?

at the beginning of the creation of God
Pr 8:22Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

Did you even care to look up the concept of the triple point of water? You wouldn't be asking me questions about it if you did.

I did read it, that's why I want some clarification, hence the question. You also seem not go talk about the other 4 points I talked about.
Secondly, I asked you, what is trinity?

You said Jesus was not the GOD Satan was referring to during the temptation. My question for you: who was being tempted at that point? Jesus Christ or GOD the Father?

answer : Jesus Christ, he was trying to make Jesus tempt jehovah!, but Jesus answered him with words found in verse 7. verse 5 and 6 give a perfect picture of what the devil was trying to do.

DoctorAlien:
Furthermore, Dolphinheart:

10. The Scriptures also teach that only God knows the thoughts of a man’s heart (1 Kings 8:39). Yet Jesus consistently knew what people were thinking, “for he knew what was in man” (John 2:25). “Nathanael said to Him, ‘How do You know me?’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you’” (John 1:48 NKJV).

yes , God's spirit was in him., same spirit that was in Peter when he knew what ananaias did in secret, does it make Peter God? no .

11.Through the Spirit, Jesus is omnipresent. “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:20 NKJV). “For I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city” (Acts 18:10 NKJV).

if that's how you understand it, then why is he going and coming back if he is present everywhere.
when Stephen was about to be killed , where did he say Jesus is, he said he saw Jesus in heaven standing at the right hand of God!

12. He has power to give life, and even resurrected Himself. “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it
again” (John 10:18). “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live” (John 11:25).

Therefore, Jesus Christ is the Almighty GOD since He has these qualities.

I believe I've mentioned the one who gave Jesus the power to give life, using several scriptures as guide.

Did Jesus resurrect himself ? no !
Ac 2:24 But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.
Ac 3:15whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.
Ro 4:24but also for our sake, to whom it will be counted, because we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.
1Co 6:14 But God raised up the Lord and will also raise us up out of death through his power.
Col 2:12For you were buried with him in his baptism, and by your relationship with him you were also raised up together through your faith in the powerful work of God, who raised him up from the dead.
Heb 13:20 Now may the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep, our Lord Jesus, with the blood of an everlasting covenant,

so sir, Jesus did not raise himself up, neither did God raise himself up!

DoctorAlien:
Continue, Dolphinheart:

7. Jesus is able to forgive sin (Luke 5:20, 21); The Bible says only God can forgive sin (Isaiah 43:25).

jesus was and is able to forgive cus he was given the power and authority to do so.
The pharises asked a question, having a wrong understanding ,"Who can forgive sins except God alone?” they reasoned. Jesus showed then he had the authority to forgive sins, and he did so by healing the man.
who gave Jesus that authority? his father Jehovah, the Almighty God:
Joh 5:22For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,
Joh 5:27And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man
Ac 10:42Also, he ordered us to preach to the people and to give a thorough witness that this is the one decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.
Ac 17:31Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”

look at this verses, even the disciples where given the power to forgive sins
[b]Joh 20:21Jesus said to them again: “May you have peace. Just as the Father has sent me, I also am sending you.”
Joh 20:22After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit.
Joh 20:23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.”
this authority to forgive sins does not make the disciples to be Almighty God or does it?

8. Jesus accepted worship that according to the Ten Commandments is reserved only for the Almighty (Matthew 14:33). “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, ‘All hail.’ And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him” (Matthew 28:9). Upon seeing the risen Savior, the converted skeptic, Thomas, confessed, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:26–29).

plso examine the Greek and Hebrew words that the kjv translated to worship, you will realise that the context decides how it is supposed to be translated , if jesus is Almighty God cus the translation said he is worshipped, then this are God Almighty too:
[b]King James Version
Re 3:9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee[/color]
read also Luke 14:10

9. Even the angels worship Jesus. “And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him” (Hebrews 1:6).

good, jess is God's firstborn son, when the disciples are resurrected, they will become brothers of jesus, but sons of God!

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

Let us now consider the primary definitions of GOD and see if Jesus fits into all of them:

1. He is self-existent (John 1:1–4; 14:6); only God is self-existent (Psalm 90:2).

sir, John 1:1-4 and John 14: 6 does not say so. jesus had a beginning.

2. Jesus defines Himself as eternal. “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8 ).

sir, 1. It was John who was talking, telling us about what Jehovah said.
2. The statement is in reference to Jehovah and not to jesus, jesus was talked about in verse 6 and seven, and it is mentioned that he has a God, almighty God is the supreme being, he does not have a God superior to him, therefore jesus is not the almighty.
look at verses 1,4-6 and you will know jesus is not one who is, who was and who is to Come.

3. He is, and has, eternal life (1 John 5:11, 12, 20).

because his father had granted him such power and authority, if Jehovah did not give him, he will not have it!

4. He is all-powerful (Revelation 1:8 ).

that verse was not talking about jesus, it was about Jehovah, the almighty god.

5. He created all things (John 1:3). “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are
on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him” (Colossians 1:16 NKJV).

God used him to create all other things, he was gods master worker.
[b]Heb 1:1Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways.
Heb 1:2Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things

6. The Father even calls Jesus God. “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom” (Hebrews 1:8 ).

no one is denying that jesus is not a God, the truth is that in the next verse, the one talking says jesus has a God, this God is different from jesus as it says that this God anointed jesus!
it did not say he anointed himself!,
other scriptures also support this and even jesus himself and his disciples comfirms it:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

sir, the almighty God does not have a god superior to him.

DoctorAlien:
Dolphinheart,

The triple point of water is the temperature at which ice, liquid water and water vapor exist together in thermodynamic equilibrium. This temperature is 0.01 degrees Centigrade. Look this fact up on wikipedia. So, water can exist in three states at once, contrary to your assertion.

sir, water as a body(collection of many H2O compounds) or water as a molecule, which one are you talking about.?

I never really said that the triune GOD is totally described by the relationship between the three states of water. A physical material like water cannot fully describe Divine Mysteries. However, a glimpse of the triune GOD can be obtained from it.

neither did I say you said so!, see what I said:
"sir, I find this interesting, for your explanation does not support the concept of trinity at all, unless you have your own definition of trinity which might be different from others."

at this point, pls I need to ask you, what is your definition and explanation of trinity?

I quoted 1 Jn. 5:7 from the KJV, and all the words I wrote can be found there.

I realised that.

The KJV is the only version that was translated from manuscripts that escaped corruption and adulteration. You can read more on that.

seems you know much about manuscripts, pls tell, which manuscript are you referring to, so that one can do his own investigation?

If you say Jesus Christ is not GOD, why did Jesus reply Satan thus: "...It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy GOD" Matt.4:7 ?

the answer or reason is quite easy to get , the verse says:
Mt 4:7Jesus said to him: “Again it is written: ‘You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.’”

why did Jesus say this words that was written in deut 6:16, it is because that was what Satan was trying to do, Jesus' answer and the devils temptation shows us more emphatically that jesus is not the God Satan was referring to during the temptation.
verses 5 and 6 tells us:
[b]Mt 4:5Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him on the battlement of the temple
Mt 4:6and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning [color=red]you,’[/quote]and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’”[/quote]can you see what Satan is trying to do, the temptation is not for jesus directly , he is trying to make jesus tempt Jehovah, for Jehovah had earlier said those words that the devil is using. Jesus knew that it was wrong for him to put Jehovah to the test by expecting angels to rescue him if he were to engage in reckless behavior, therefore jesus told him what is written in verse 7.

What do you have to say about this: "I and My Father are one" Jn. 10:30 ?

I've said a lot about that verse, jesus was emphasising the unity between him and his father, this same unity he wanted his disciples to have when he said they should become one, just as him and his father are one. He also expects his disciples to become one with him and his father. when this occurs, it does not mean they will all become almighty God, or become same as God or become equal to God.
just as a husband are wife are expected to become one flesh, it does not mean they become one person or become equal in the marriage(family) set up, jesus was only emphasising their unity and onness of purpose!

brocab:
I stand by my brothers ans sisters everyday-just as I stand by Jesus everyday. Solite3 is a believer-just as I am, and John74 stands strong too.

then retract your contradictory statements if you stand by their words.
you say spirit goes to hell, solite3 believes body and and soul goes to hell, who are we to believe.
you make such contradictory statements, yet you refuse to tell us where the other two go if only spirit goes to hell.

you argue that Jesus is the father while johnw74 believes that jesus is not same person as the father, brotherhood of confusion, believing contradictory things.

I find no fault with my brothers, nor my sisters in Christ.
I have seen where I had written it about Paul, but because you have refuse to read the rest of the scripts on each page, then of course you would cut my pages up, only to suit your metal state of mind.

even when I posted the full text of your post, you still refuse to answer the question.

Plus it was you dolphinheart who actually can't believe the story about the rich and the poor man, both died and was buried, without having the Spirit of God, your metal state of mind can only put your mind into a box type thinking pattern, only because you seem to believe {Luke 16} doesn't really exist, it is either a misprint, and of course this may leave you without knowing any truth concerning any passages that belongs to our Spiritual growth.

pls show where I talked about the rich man and lazarus, you are just desperately trying to change the topic, you don't want to tell us where body and soul go , if only spirit go to hell!

The bible is used as a tool to help us with directions, {Let your fingers do the walking} the bible gives us the insight how this book is written, and what we see, is not always how it sounds. The bible is written so we need the Spirit of God to glide us through. The bible is also describes flesh came from dust, and dust, we will return. Which proves our Spirit's will live without flesh and blood.

the bible has told you where the spirit goes to, you deliberately twisted it and said spirit roams.

{Luke 16:22-26} not only this scripture but others like it, your unbelief naturally cowardly controls your metal state, that supports your ramping and raving about any existence to any bible that belongs to God.
Jesus describes Hell as the place of torment burning with fire for eternity, like He describes heaven the place in paradise.
Meaning we have a choice, and with that choice, I choose to be with the Lord, where I know I will spend eternity with Him.

tell what goes to this hell, tell where spirit, body , soul goes when man dies.

solite3:
when you ignore my points? Why were you dodging my questions? U don't expect me to keep on answering your irrational questions y u keep on denying the scriptures do you?

so now everyone can see who ran away!
Secondly, I replied all your questions. You ask me to provide evidence on what you know you did not say, what kind of question is that? to show you what does not exist!
I did not deny the scriptures.