₦airaland Forum

@paulgrundy

Q3: who will be the rightoeus and unrightoes that will be ressurected on the last day?
Answer: they are those that
died and are still dying after
Jesus' ressurection. As for
those who died before Jesus,
many have been resurected
immediately after Jesus'
ressurection.
Mattew 27:52-53;
"And the graves were opened,
and many bodies of the saints
which slept arose,
And came out of the graves
after his ressurection and went
into the holy city and appeared
unto many".
I believe these dead saints
comprised most not all of the
dead OT folks.

Read ur bible Bro.
Read on the resurrection process as layed down by apostle paul.
If these people where elijah abraham,enoch and co, it makes all ur views look twisted. Is abraham one of them?, is elijah and enoch one of those saints? Are they still on earth today? If not where are they and how did they get there.?

When one runs out of proof to support a lie, speculations will start coming out.

Pls dnt speculate, use the scriptures to support ur views.

@ mubarakopeyemi
@zinicc
I've read ur posts. The whole issue is at the moment more complicated.

On christianity, I believe its mainstream leadership had been highjacked by men who have used it for their own personal desires which is the desire for wealth, power and authority.
I believe in the scriptures and I can tell with truth why it is the word of God.

On islam, I'm still trying to find out why people believe in the koran.

On reality though, recent history have not put the religion in good light, expecially when it comes to violent conduct.
The religion can be Said to be a religion of peace, but I think the peace is conditional. Once the conditions are not met or situation changes, then peace is thrown out the window.

Unfortunately, information the real cause of the resultant hostility is
determined by the victor and we can never trully know if what is recorded is the truth or not.
The prophet is said to fight wars, the reasons and purposes is recorded by the victor, but the problem is, are those things recorded true?

Another issue I have with the musl.m religion is the inability of its scriptures to be specific in some very important issues. These has caused varied and different interpretations that has led to very horrendious consequences. An example is the issue of apostacy and fight against infidels.


On the issue of hate, I feel some people do have genuine reasons for their hate. One of my female relations husband dad was killed in the north. There house is opposite a mosque and after prayers one Friday evening, they crossed the road and burnt their house down with the dad in it. The remaining member of the family came back to lagos with only the clothes on their back. Up till today, the chidren dnt sit near where musl.ms are gathered cus of fear.

paulgrundy

For those who change what the scriptures says, the false changes will eventualy hook them .
If it is believed that jesus
Made that statement to nicodemus to imply that he is the only one that came to earth from heaven . They do not know that using the transfiguration to butress there belief that elijah and moses are alive in heaven nulifies the first Belief , for it shows then that jesus is not the only man who came from heaven

Q2: is Jesus the first person to rise from the dead?
Ans: those argueing in support
of that notion, justify their
stance with these scriptures;
col 1:18, Acts 26:23, Rev 1:4.
This notion is incorrect because some persons have been raised from the dead before Jesus' ressurection:
Elisha raised the son of the
shunaminite woman 2kings
4:32-55.
Elishas dead bones raised a
man from the dead 2kings
13:20-21.
Jesus himself raised a widows
son luke 7:11-15. What then
does it mean to say Jesus is
the firstborn from the dead.
The word firstborn has great
significance in the bible, its
greek is prototokos-first born
child. In the OT the firstborn
innherited his fathers place as
head of the family receiving a
double portion of his inheritance
deut 27:17. The nation of isreal
is reffered to as Gods firstborn
Ex 4:22. In the NT Jesus is
shown to be the "new isreal" the fulfillment of Gods promise to bless all nations through
abrams seed Gal 3:7.
In reffering to Jesus as
firstborn of the dead, his
kingship of David is being
celebrated, he is potrayed as
Davids heir psalm 89:1. It also
shows Jesus to be the
inaugurator of the new
creation .

One can see all the join join above and know it has no head, tail or direction .

Col 1: 18- And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the
beginning and the firstborn
from among the dead, so that
in everything he might have
the supremacy.
(in what way is jesus the beginning and firstborn from among the dead ?)

Acts 26:23-that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own
people and to the Gentiles."
(can you explain why these verse says jesus is the first to rise from the dead when the scripture has shown that there had been previous resurrection?)

1 cor 15:20- But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.

Why is jesus the first,firstfruit and firstborn of this those who are to be resurrected? The answer lies in the form of those who are to be ressurected . All other resurrections prior to the resurrection of jesus was done in the flesh/perishable/physical body . But jesus is the first , followed later by his disciples and followers to be resurrected with a spirit/inperishable body. That is why jesus is said to "became a life giving spirit" and those with heavenly life in view will share in the divine nature .

Whateva explanation you try to give, the firsttborn is the firstborn cus he is the first to be born ! He is the first in wateva category you want to put it , therefore the preference.

To be continued......

@paulgrundy

Why do you resort to this, anyways still awaiting ur answersto the questions posed to you.

This is precisely the reason why I hate argueing with straw men, misinterpretations, distortions and red herring approach. For those honest hearted sincere truth seekers check this out;

Let's check it out and see who the above is reffering to.

Q1: does John 3:13 mean that no man has literally ascended to heaven?
Answer: that scripture if taken
literally is inaccurate because,
saints have gone to heaven,
mark 12:26-27, luke 9:28-36.
Enoch and Elijah were taken up without dying Genesis 5:24,
heb 11:5, 2kings 2:11. What
then was Jesus talking about?
In v10-12, of John 3 we see that Jesus was talking about his authority and validity of his
teaching. Jesus tells Nicodemus that he has been
teaching what he knew first
hand v11, then in v13 he
explains why he is uniquely
qualified to teach of the
kingdom- because he alone
came down from heaven and
possess the knowledge to
teach people about heaven.
Jesus was claiming diety.

Nicodemus, a Pharisee, came to see jesus. He said to jesus, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
Notice what this man said , he said he knew jesus came from God. He knew jesus had authority from God who is in heaven and has validity in his teachings cus God was with jesus. He wanted to know more, not to be told what he already knows in a non literal manner as it is being tried to be explained above.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the
kingdom of God unless they are born again. ”
Paulgrundy tried to explain that enoch and elijah and the faithful people of old went to heaven before jesus came, but jesus said you must be born again to attain such feat.
Now ill like to as him if there is any record in the scriptures of any of those people being born again and what born again means.

Nicodemus learning something new asks “How can someone be born when they are old?, “Surely they cannot enter
a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
Jesus answered, “Very truly I
tell you, no one can enter the
kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You c must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

To enter heaven, you have to be born of water and spirit. Ill like to ask here. Is there any one of old born of water and spirit ? Cus without that, they cannot enter heaven.

“How can this be?” nicodemus asks . Then jesus told him “You are Israel’s teacher,”,and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man."

In simple plain English ," no one has gone into heaven except the son of man who came from heaven."
Is it wrong to take this statement literal ?
Has anyone ascended to heaven before jesus ?
Some claim that elijah and enoch went to heaven, but when we look into the scritures we find these as false.

1 cor 15 :20 says : But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
These verse explains that jesus is the first to be ressurected in a manner that was later explained in 1 cor chapter 15. Some versions translated that verse as :
"He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died."
"the first one offered in the harvest of those who have
died."

After jesus resurrection what then happened ? Hebrews chapter 9 helps us to know .

Heb 9: 12- He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
(jesus obtained eternal redemption for humans with his own blood.)

Heb 9:13,14- The blood of
goats and bulls and the ashes
of a heifer sprinkled on those
who are ceremonially unclean
sanctify them so that they are
outwardly clean. How much
more, then, will the blood of
Christ, who through the eternal
Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse
our consciences from acts that
lead to death, so that we may
serve the living God!
( the blood of jesus more more important than the blood of animals used in those days )

Heb 9:15,16- For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new
covenant, that those who are
called may receive the
promised eternal inheritance—
now that he has died as a
ransom to set them free from
the sins committed under the
first covenant.
In the case of a will, it is
necessary to prove the death
of the one who made it, because a will is in force
only when somebody has
died; it never takes effect while
the one who made it is living.
This is why even the first
covenant was not put into
effect without blood.
( in the new covenant, those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance. This covenant was not initiated until jesus came to earth , I wonder why some say people before jesus came benefited from a covenant that was not initiated before jesus came.
It went further to state that "In the case of a will, it is
necessary to prove the death
of the one who made it, because a will is in force
only when somebody has
died; it never takes effect while
the one who made it is living."
So in the these case of jesus promise of heavenly inheritance, it does come into effect unless jesus died first, to provide the ransom. Just as the first covenant does not come into effect without blood, the second covenant does not come into effect without the presentation of jesus blood as ransom.
So therefore, it is verry verry wrong to state that some people who died before jesus presented the ransome sacrifice benefited from it before it was giving. so no one could use jesus ransome to enter heaven until jesus gave it.
Read verse 19 to 22

Heb 9:23 -It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.(in conclusion, man cannot enter heaven without these being done first )

You can find further proofs if you read these verses:
John 14:2, 3.
Hebrew 6:19, 20.
Hebrew 10:19, 20
In their resurrection these must bear “the image of the heavenly one,” Christ Jesus,
in order to ascend to the
heavens of the spirit plane, for
“flesh and blood” cannot inherit that heavenly Kingdom.— 1Co 15:42-50.

Did mark 12:26-27, say that the dead have gone to heaven, no!

What did jesus call the events recorded in luke 9:28-36? A vision!
Can enoch and elijah enter heaven without dying ? For flesh and blood cannot do that!
What did apostle say about those faithful servants of God who lived before jesus ?
Heb 11:13 - All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

To cover a lie another lie must be told .

To be continued ......

milkymesh:
Any one taking Paulgrundy serious here must be very gullible. He was once a witness who is now disgruntled because he was chased out for for wrong doing as a result of his unrepentant attitude.
I have read so many of his post and other JW opposers. It drive to me to do research about them.
@Paulgrundy, u were a witness for about three decades. Tell NL in the name of God why you were chased out and stop attacking them. I have works mates, classmate, neighbors, even relatives who are JWs. I hate peopl spreading lies about good people out of spite, hate or "dog in the manger "attitude.
Be careful and restrict your lies and attack to your blog.

These paulgrundy on NL was never once a jehovahs witness o. He is not the one on that picture on his moniker and that child is not his. He is just a copy and paste guy that looks into issues that happens before he was born without recourse to present understanding.
If you think I'm wrong, pls ask him and he will explain to you why he is fake.

singing with eminen's tone and voice :
~will the real paulgrundy pls stand up , pls stand up , pls stand up.~
The op will remain seated .

MightySparrow:
Dolphinheart

I am still waiting to read your view from the scriptures on this topic.
Please write something from the scriptures.

Sorry for keeping you waiting will do it soon . There is a thread I'm having a discussion on the soul on . You can check my posts to see see the thread. But I will surely reply here.

mubarakopeyemi:
Well, I don't think you understand what I meant by the word "inside Job" there was actually an huge explosion which was a bomb planted internally. while that video was faked to make it look asif a plane actually hit the building. No plane hit the building. The explosion was from the Inside. I didn't say the towers were not affected, they actually were. But its an Inside Job.

View that video for more evidence which will assist you in understand my stance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Dl5jIdtdk

will look at the video later and will reply you on ur stance.
But does the video explain Al quaeda admissions as the perpetuators of the incident?

Thumbs up. I don't have much objections here.

Ok , cool .

good point Saudi Is not necessarily allowing the US to use them. The Saudi Royal Family and the US has a tie which I still don't know of yet but which i'm certain that it is a sort of nationalistic tie which is not related to religion in any way.

ur nationalistic behavior is a reflection of ur religious behavior and beliefs. There is no seperation between islam and the state. In fact , the control of the state by the religion is needed in other for the religion to be fully practiced. Sharia law cannot be fully functional unless the religion is in charge of the state , hence the century old war and bloodshed between the shia and sunni over who controls where and when.
Can sharia be practiced in the US?, the answer is no. Why? Cus the religion is not in full control of the state. There are certain laws in sharia that cannot be practiced unless the religion is in control.
The religion is in control in saudi arabia hence the sharia law is the law practiced there. Therefore any political decision in S.A is also a religious decision as it is said that the religious books contain issues about every aspect of how humans should Live their lives.
So to me, the political decision of allowing the infidels into Arab land is also a religious decision. And if you condemn the US invasion of Iraq, condemn those who allowed
The US use their land to do the invasion, and are still staying there after.

Like I said earlier, it is more of a nationalistic course rather than the religion.

Dnt take the saudis to be fo.ols, there will be war between the saudis and the Iranians if the US dnt maintain there military presence in that region. It is the fear of what the US will do that is keeping those shia and sunni regional powers from tearing each other to pieces . Why do you think the Arabs are buying weapons that can only be used in regional defence and attack warfare . Who are the majority in there region if not fellow musl.m countries.

Okay, even if we look at it in this perspective. Gaddafi is gone now, why has the USA neglected the populace and made them suffer? afterall they are advocates of Democracy and freedom.

Haha, u urself know, the quest for power and dominance is about wealth and resource control. The "ojukokoro" in man is what makes him see and desires what belong to others, and once he has the the means to get and maintain it. Woe on anyone who tries to stop him. He does not care about how he rules e.g democracy , but he can use how he rules to get what he wants, eg makes them think he wants them to be democratic.
Why is the US not fighting diplomatic or financial or real physical war with the saudis, at least they are not democratic na. Answer lies in the resources and benefits.

This your response here should have made you known the true color of the west. Why do they really need to disintegrate Nigeria? It is for their nationalistic course. The normal dubious way.

I never said they will disintegrate nigeria, or that they need to do so. I only said they have the power to decide the outcome. If they feel it pays them to keep nigeria as one , no agitation will
Split it. Anyone fighting for the split will just die for nothing. They wunt blink an eye if millions die.
And if they feel naija should split,dnt think 30 million fulanis can stop it. But there decision is based on what they will gain. they are the world powers.

I love your approach to this issue. But what is your own conclusion about islam, Is Islam a religion of Terror as said to have been or not.
Thanks.

In reality, I dnt have a concrete proof to state such, thus I still ask Muslim scholars certain questions. Cus if I say the muslms are terrorist, what will I call what the Catholics did in south America . Or how they treated people who challenged their views and beliefs in those days. I still remember galelio(hope I got the spelling right) .

As a Christian , I know some actions by religious leaders who claim to be christians are not right, and that their actions goes contrary to bible instructions and teachings. But I dnt fully know if the actions by musl.ms go contrary to what their books teaches . Hence I listen to their arguments and take notes.

Zinicc:
Enjoying myself like never before on this thread...
@dolphinheart the clarity you paint on issues makes me munch my pop-corn faster than normal.
Ok, lemme make some more..

Mama peace, "CONTINU" !!

Make some for me too o. I love pop-corn.

paulGrundy:
Adam, Eve, the people of old old testament prophets before jesus' death have already been immortalised and judged and have been to heaven or hell, they are no longer in the grave. Those who died without hearing about jesus will be judged by their conscience or the law romans 2:12-14. I have done an extensive researched online before coming to make posts.

Just so you know the confused one here is the watchtower, jesus was clear when he said;

Mattew 25:41;
...Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire..

Rev 20:14, death and hades cast into the lake of fire simply means that at that point they are no more (explained it to jesciha). Lake of fire is a literal term because we have a extensive list of scriptures that confirms that.

I have tried! I thought I was argueing with bible scholars, never knew I was talking with straw men.

Haba!, do you still not get it, do you still not understand that if we follow what you said(which incidentally cannot be proved using the bible) it means that there has been a ressurection of those who will go to heaven prior to jesus resurrection , does this not negate jesus as firstfruit of those to be ressurected?
That it also means that they have already been judged ? If so, who will later be righteous and unrighteous that are ressurected in the last day?
Who will hades and the sea give up later, when they are not there any longer.?
Are you saying there are two judgements, one immediately after death and the other later ?

Jozzy4:
thats paulgrundy for you . He will say " yes lake of fire in this instance is symbolic , coz grave cant be burned . But lake of fire is literal in other instances . " thus we have 2 lake of fire , one is symbolic and the other is literal .
Heresy upon heresy . One lie always lead to many networks of lie as stated by dolphinheart .

- pls , jessicha notice that he said Adam and Eve made heaven without Jesus dying for their sins , funny isnt it ? Humans making heaven without Jesus . He make God a fool who said dont eat the tree of life nd live forever , whereas they later live forever . Satan is right lol .

He said soul is mortal for now , but contradict himself immediately by saying Adam and Eve go to heaven when they die . i thought they wont be immortal until after ressurection , i thought he said the dead will be in the grave . ConFusion

You can see through his shifting , he can't hold on to his words. He is a far from the truth as his real child is as far from the one displayed by his moniker.

Like a house made of cards , so is their beliefs, remove one lie, the rest come tumbling down!

paulGrundy:
1 Corinthians 15:53-55New
International Version (NIV)
53 For the perishable must
clothe itself with the
imperishable, and the mortal
with immortality. 54 When the
perishable has been clothed
with the imperishable, and the
mortal with immortality, then the
saying that is written will come
true: “Death has been
swallowed up in victory.”[a]
55
“Where, O death, is your
victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
Daniel 12:2;
2 Multitudes who sleep in the
dust of the earth will awake:
some to everlasting life, others
to shame and everlasting
contempt.

Again no attempt to add further explanation. As explained earlier , the perishable and imperishable is talking about the bodies that those who will go to heaven will have. That body is not for the unrighteous. It is not for everyone. Hence it does not answer the question .
Furthermore, the verses says nothing about the soul being immortal. Even some of those who gained the inperishable body had once perished!
Just in case you dnt know, evalasting life and imortality are not the same thing.

they will remain on earth and experience the anti-christs rule after which comes judgement.

Let me break the question down for you. The question is to know what the bible says about the future of those who will not experience the so called rapture ok.

4B(a) What will happen to them before the anti Christ rule, after the so called rapture ?

4B(b)What will happen to those humans after judgment.

4B(c)Will there be people who will not burn in hell when they don't experience or partake in the so called rapture? If yes , where will those people be ?

the watchtower has
several versions related to that
stuff, which one should i select?

Sir, I asked you a question, I did not ask you to select any other persons versions.
Pls tell us ur view of the scripture I sited and question asked.
Read rev 20:5,6 then answer my question: 5.Since there is a first resurrection, there is also
other resurrections, what is the difference between the
first ressurection and other
resurrections?

no.

Since you say sodom is no longer burning , what happened to the fire and sulphur that burnt it down ? That evalasting fire is no longer burning, as an example apply these to other scriptures that talks about evalasting fire too.

his mortal soul/body

Question 7A: How is hades an escort? Is hades an escort because men are buried in the grave?
Pls answer those questions.

You now see where your answers has led you, you can't differentiate between the body and soul again hence you now say soul/body is buried in the grave.
Before it was body to the grave and soul to hell. Now it is soul/body to the grave.
7B Is the soul and body the same thing ? If no , why do you say soul/body . Or do both go to the grave?

The Bible does not specifically tell us whether Adam and Eve were saved.

Sir I did not ask you if adam and eve where saved or not. dnt change the issue. I asked :
So where did God say that
adam will go to ?

In a more understandable way : where did God tell adam that he ,adam, will return to?

Adam and Eve
were the only two human
beings who knew about God
before they became tainted with sin. As a result, they likely still knew God better after their fall than any of us do today. Adam and Eve most definitely
believed in and depended on
God. God continued to talk with Adam and Eve and provide for them after the fall. Adam and Eve knew of God’s promise that He would provide a Savior (Genesis 3:15). God made garments of skin for Adam and Eve after the fall (Genesis 3:21). Many scholars
understand this as the first
animal sacrifice, foreshadowing the eventual death of Christ on the cross for the sins of the world. Putting these facts together, it would seem that Adam and Eve were saved and did indeed go to heaven / paradise when they died.

Hian!!. So God did not say where adam will go/ return to when he dies?

So you are saying that after God passes judgement, he can still save such one ? . That means Satan can be saved also then if he repents?
Bro ur statements are truly not biblical .

paulGrundy:
the body decays after death, that is your flesh.

1A. So the body goes nowhere? So what goes to hades and sheol.?

You said the word "flesh", I can remember that that is what God called man in genesis 6:3.
So when man dies, he, the man decays and exist no more.
Ge 6:12; Isa 66:16; Lu 3:6 support this view.

During the creation of adam and his judgement, God told adam what he is and where he came from and where he is going.
Gen 2:7- "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Did you notice how simply understandable how that verse is?
Did you notice where man came from?
Did you notice how man became a living soul?.
Did you notice that man is not giving a soul, but that man himself is a soul.?
Did you notice that man is a soul cus he became alive? An animated flesh? A flesh that is alive?

Gen 3:19- In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

Did you see that this verse is also simple?
Did you see where God told man he came from?
Did you see where God told adam he will return to?
That verse clearly explains that man, him, his verry self , the one that engaged in a conversation with God , will return to dust, for he is dust!.
I dnt know why this is hard to accept. I dnt know you'll go contrary to what God called man and what will happen to him at death.

the spirit is the breath of man, you stop breathing when you die.

Good, first, for all those who believe that man is a spirit in a body, paulgrundy has just shown that you are wrong, and if you cannot directly quote him and refute his statement on this thread, it just shows who you really are.

Back to the issue , just like the body issue, you did not state where the spirit goes to when man dies. So going by ur statement, it means they go nowhere! the spirit and the body go nowhere, hence the two things that makes man s living soul goes nowhere. Will leave this for now and come back to it later.

1 Corinthians 15:53-55New
International Version (NIV)
53 For the perishable must
clothe itself with the
imperishable, and the mortal
with immortality. 54 When the
perishable has been clothed
with the imperishable, and the
mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been
swallowed up in victory.”[a]
55
“Where, O death, is your
victory?
Where, O death, is your
sting?”javascript:void(0);

You quoted a scripture and not explain it , maybe you know that explaining it will give you out.

What is "perishable" as said in verse 53 and 54, the soul or the body.?

You can see how you try to twist things, you try to make us feel that immortality here is for the soul. Hence you refused to add further explanation. Before I go into those verses , ur statement and the scripture you quoted shows that as at this moment, you do not have an immortal soul. Wonder why God will give one an immortal soul after death just to purnish him eternally.

Now to the verses you quoted (some verses will be shortened for space )
"35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
(note, the question was about the body ,not soul)

"36......37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.(note again, it is About the kind of body they will be resurrected in)

"39....40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another;and star differs from star in splendor.(again its about body and not soul, there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies)

"42 So will it be with the
resurrection of the dead. The
body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable......If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.........47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we g bear the image of the heavenly man.
50 I declare to you, brothers
and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.53-(quoted earlier)-55 .

So you can see with ur eyes that the verse you quoted is talking about the body during resurrection. That the body will not be flesh and blood. That those to receive these immortal bodies will be those who will go to heaven .
These brings about the question, will those who will go to hell fire go to heaven first.? If not , then how will they become immortal.

The initial question also stands:
1C. Show scriptural proof that
says the soul is immortal.
the soul becomes immortal
during rapture and judgement
Pls endeavor to answer it.

your mortal body would put on immortality, this will happen to both rightoes and unrightoes alike, just that while some are raised to everlasting life, others would be raised to eternal damnation in hell fire

Again , you fail to use the scripture to support ur views.
Now it is no longer the soul that burns in hell , it is the immortal body . One wonders. When you will hold on to one view and keep it , cus u initially said its the soul that burns, now its the body.

You have so far failed to show where it is said in the scriptures that the unrighteous will be giving immortal bodies. Or are you saying the unrighteous will be ressurected before the rapture? Or that those who have not died will be changed , both righteous and unrighteous.? Ill like to hear ur reply on these, and pls add scripture for proof.

the soul

You say the soul is in control of mans consciouness.

A mad man thus has a mad soul right? A mad man can be treated , or rather his consciousness adjusted with the use of drugs and other physical procedures, these are all physical and have physical effects. For example , the drugs are not for the soul , but for the physical body, enabling the body to produce complex chemicals, enzymes and proteins that will affect the persons consciousness. These drugs can also determine our moods. As there are drugs that can make u well, there are drugs that that can affect ur consciousness and run you mad totally and completely. Our body condition determines our consciouness.
You have heard about how some sugar affect children and they start giggling. So unless our body is being affected upon by an external force eg spirit forces, what you see, hear, feel , touch , smell(all physical and controlled by the flesh) determines how you think, what you think about, ur knowledge and ur consciousness. No wonder the scriptures says that when you die, when ur brain stops functioning, you loss all consciousness. So unless you agree that the soul is a living fleshly body, you will have to give a better statement than the one you gave above.

at hades, the g.rave.

Good ,good you say one goes to hades and not to hell before resurrection, can you give us the hebrew and Greek word for "hell" as stated in the scriptures so we can know that the word "hell" is different from the words "hades " and "sheol".
Note : if it is found out that the mean the same thing or the hebrew and Greek word for hell is different. You will have to find another answer for question 3A which states: If you do not go to hell untill after the resurrection, where will one be before the ressurection.?

Note again: if you say man does not go to hell untill after ressurection, it means nobody or soul is burning anywhere at these verry moment!. Hope others are noting this too.


3B. Where did the bible say
Jesus was before his
resurrection .?

Jesus went to Hell

Interesting, others go to hades, only jesus went to hell. Pls note this o.

To be continued ........

mubarakopeyemi:
Well the video you wacthed was a Fake. It was an inside job. The Google is there for for you to make research on the analysis of the supposed attack and what really was the event. I won't beat far on this.

Really! , u saying the world trade center is still in new york and has not been brought down? .
Since the twin buildings dnt exist any longer, probably it was brought down overnight for the world not to notice the deception. I've watched that those planes hit those towers from several sources, both government and private, several personal cams and security cameras. In fact that night , before we had more info, I had an argument with my friend on if it was jet fighter that attacked the city.

From what you wrote up there. You're saying that since a nation is big and great it is okay for them to oppress other weaker nations. Good. How objective you are there. Since Nigeria is better than Benin republic. We can just say they have a bad plan against us and then go in a kill many innocent people. Well That sounds good and normal (To you). Great nations in the past does something doesn't make that thing the right thing I hope you know that.

From my post, did you see me saying that a normal things is a right thing ? Or that what the US is doing is right? Bro, I never said it is ok. Just showed you how the world governed by Satan works. There are a lot of things that are normal, but that does not make them right or good.
Strong countries oppress weak countries, na so e be From the start. some weak countries later become strong and continue the chain. They cook up false stories to defend their need to attack the weaker ones or those who dnt comply to their rule. If you want to participate in the "game of thrones", you must be ready to do vile things.
You brought up the morality issue using the US as an example, did you not read about what the Arabs did to the Persians, why not use that as an example too.? At least the musl.ms are also participants in the "game of thrones".

Secondly, why was USA voted the number threat to world peace? By numerous diplomats and politicians all around the globe. It wasnt me that called them that. Stop trying to twist it with circumstantial events twisted by the media that those guys are good. They are not.

Again i never any nation is good. In fact to me, all , yes all nations are under the devils control. The US might be the number 1 threat to world peace cus its the greatest player on world issues. It has an economy big enough to affect others, it has the strongest military ever on the surface of the earth. One simple, small ,wrong move by the US and the world goes up in tartars. why should not a country with such power not be the number one threat.
I can bet you, most countries , expecially the musl.m countries pray to replace the US in this position.

By the way, this number 1 threat position came about by the some country support for the US e.g saudi arabia who allow the US use them for their atrocities.

The USA is an advocate of a New world Order. I hope you know what that is. A one world government that would be controlled by the devil. And to achieve this they must take out some people that might want to obstruct them. George bush was busy proclaiming the new world order during his regime. You should know how loud that sounds.

Yep, I agree, that is how the world works, they (including the musl.m nations)have been playing this game from inception. The strongest nation always does this as explained in previous post.
The infidels and believers are both guilty of these.

The USA is always meddling in other nation's affairs. Why is it hard to ever leave them alone. Why has the USA not left Assad of Syria alone. Now that the Russia is ready to assist Assad the USA is blaming Russia for supporting Assad, good. The Russia that wanted to support Assad in finishing the ISIS is being blamed by the USA. How puzzling. Who is the USA behind? ISIS or Assad? ISIS of course.

Good, why have the musl.m nations not left syria alone, why do they send weapons to syria, why do they bomb syria. Why do they support the US in syria.
Why is saudi arabia bombing yemen ?. Why did they sent troops to bahrain. If the US is the devil, why can't you say saudi arabia and Iran are devils too? Maybe you are looking at morality from one side only, why is that.?

Can you explain the role of the USA in Libya with Gaddafi.

You are free to judge Gaddafi and condemn him as much as you like, but first, allow me to give you facts on what Gaddafi did/intended to do in Africa.

1. Africa spends billions every year paying Europe for using satellite communication systems, in entertainment, security, business or just communications. Gaddafi wanted to get rid of that by paying and setting up satellite system for entire Africa for free, saving Africa billions annually going to europe.

2. Africa is divided into over 55 countries, with different currencies. This makes it hard for trade between African countries. If I wanna buy Cocoa from Ivory coast, I'll have to change my money into US dollars (giving US 5-10% of my money), they I will probably have to turn the dollars into euro, losing another 5-10% of my capital to europe, then change my euro into ivorian franc, again losing another 5-10% of my money to the french treasury. If I started with about South African rand of 1000, by the time I am purchasing cocoa in I vory coast, my money will be worth only rands 650 to 700, the other rand 300 will be in the hands of US and Europe. Gaddafi wanted to get rid of this and replace it with DINAR (An African currency) for doing business in Africa without changing the value…almost like bitcoin that can't be manipulated easily.

3. Gaddafi's government made sure all Libyan investment like oiLibya were all within Africa.

4. Gaddafi Nationalized oil in Libya, mean, the government had control over the resources, sold it and used the money to provide services to the country. With nationalized resources, Libyans didn't have to pay taxes, received free health care, free education from birth to PHD or as far as you wish, free housing for the poor and subsidies on things like food etc. The only people who worked in Libya were Chines, Tchadians, sudanese, and other African Immigrants.

5. Libya was one of the free countries in the world that did not have any form of debts whatsoever. Libya had more money than it's population could use and had billions stores a way around the world. All the money Libya stored in Europe has been squandered by European governments.

6. During Gaddafi's lifetime, AU functions were fully funded by Libya, accommodation for leaders, transportations, and day to day activities at the AU headquarters, now that is being done by European Union. As the saying goes "He who pays the piper calls the tune" These are hard facts of what Colonel Gaddafi, self proclaimed African King of Kings did to the Continent only for us to watch him humiliated and killed like an animal without us raising a voice.

7. Gaddafi spent millions and millions helping Mali and niger with high level irrigation in the deserts so people can be self sustained.Paid full and never expected anything back.

8. Way before the BRICS came up with idea of forming their own development bank to rival world bank and IMF, Gaddafi already initiated a high level talks into starting an African Development Bank where African governments would go and borrow money at low rates for developments of things like infrastructure, academic institutions, medical institutions, research institutions among other things. This would have saved Africa from IMF and their predatory lending habits of structural adjustment programs which are notorious in keeping countries in porvety while they take ownership of your natural resources.
Gaddafi was not perfect or an angel, but he was better than 80% of the world leaders.
NOW LOOK AT YOUR LEADER AND THEN COME HERE AND CONDEMN GADDAFI.
The people Nato helped from Benghazi to attack Gaddafi are all now confirmed members of ISIS creating chaos in North Africa and middle east.
Bob Marley once sang "How long shall they kill our pro[hets, while we stand a side and look"

Where is the USA now that Libya is in deep shìt.?? Afterall the USA wanted freedom for them. They had a role in the Nation but now are the Libyans free??

Gadaffi played the game and was beheaded. He wanted to be a world leader and other world leaders dnt want him, so they did to him the same thing that is done to those who lose out. this same thing gadafi did when he took over power in libya(he killed) and would do when if he had the worlds power in his grasp.
Did gadaffi not kill people, what stops others from killing him.
That one killer killed another killer does not make any if the killers good.
In the case of libyan citezens , when two elephants fight, the grass suffers. its not right, its not good, but that's how the world is.
If you blame the US, blame those musl.ms fighting each other after the US has done their own. They all want power, regional, local or world power.

That same marley song has been since inception, even when the Arabs and its religion killed people of lesser weaker kingdoms. Ask the ottomans about what they did to the Armenians and Egyptian copts.

It is in the USA agenda to split Nigeria also. They might really achieve that. Now that the biafran agigation has begun.

Bro, I dnt know. What I know is that the western world formed the country called nigeria, and have the power to maintain or disintegrate it.

You can always say that Islam breed terrorism and the USA is a very nice nation. but are you ready to look at the other side of the story and see if it is the other way round? I'm a open minded individual I was once an ardent supporter of the USA and the west in general. I eventually decided to look at the other side but what i learnt marvelled me and I saw the truth. unfortunately the media has controlled the minds of the majority.

Whosoever breed terrorism, one fact is that the terrorists allowed themselves to be breed. Now who are the terrorist and why did they allow themselves to be breed. At least they where not born terrorist.
The US is not a nice nation .
You are not open minded, no comment from you on the bombing of syria and yemen and the support of the invasion of Iraq by musl.m countries yet.
Condemn both/all sides with the same tongue and we will know you are open minded .

athaboi:
Ofcourse that was what God promised them...they hv never be defeated in a war! Gods own people!!! Pls kindly help our brothers fight their problems created by themslf!

Yep, they have never been defeated in a war, yet Jerusalem is the most destroyed capital in world history.
Even during the time of jesus, their king was not a Jew.
Pls tell us what happened to their temple? .

@ mubarakopeyemi

I strongly do not support what the isrealis are doing or have done to the Palestinians. I wish they where not doing what we see on TV .

But look at the situation , you send deadly missiles towards me, I send deadly missiles back at you, yet you shout that my weapons are killing you. Was ur weapon meant to just say "good morning sir" and fly back to you? Was it not meant to do the same thing that my missiles are doing to you?

You say they closed you borders , that's why you are fighting them, did the Egyptians not close ur border too? Why are you not fighting the Egyptians?

The isrealis say you and ur friends want to wipe them out, recent history has shown this to be true. Thus they take a stand. You hold ur fist to their face, they wunt do d same, they will punch you immediately. You bring a stick to hit them, they wunt look for planks, they shoot you with their gun. You bring a knife, they bring Ak 47. You bring guns, they launch missiles. You launch missiles, they lauch fatter, more sophisticated missiles and invade ur land for extra effect.

So why fight such people, living in peace with them is better than trowing stones , cus if you trow stones, I can bet you na grenade dem go throw back!

mubarakopeyemi:
Seriously you think I take y'all serious anymore? since my questions weren't answered but all we had was just episodes of non ending arguements.

I have not argued with you have I? Just asked a simple question

I dont have the energy for that.

I've seen all those questions and I can answer all d bullshit but it will be just continue without any end or submission. So why waste my energy.

Ok , but it still stands that you can't or wunt answer it!

Almost everyone here are not enlightened about the bucolic plans of the West and their dubious ways. Which even if I start explaining from day till night none of them will reason it.

I've said it serveral times. Islam doesn't bread terrorism. Those terror groups are a product of the US. I repeat US. Challenge me by making the research on your own. Osama was a CIA agent used by the USA to demean Russia then but when he stopped their agenda and decided not to do evil anymore they named him evil.

Verry interesting, maybe you have some info that I have not heard about.
Now has osama been fighting before the CIA used him?
What was the CIA using him for, cus I thought he was used to fight the Russians who where killing the mislims in afga! Now that is a bad thing right! ,to help the musl.ms in their right agaist their oppressors. Yep it is a bad move that the U.S realized to late .

More interesting is the fact that osama was a devout musl.m from birth, did they not teach him that violence and killing is bad? Why did he not tell the unbelievers that what they wanted to use him for is bad and against his religion?!. Guess he was not a good religious student.

George bush did 9/11. It was an inside job no attack was made.

No attack was made? Bro, I watched the plane crash into the twin towers and it was not acted, it was real.
If it was geoge bush , an unbelievers plan. He did use believers to carry it out. And osama personally took the glory for that incident. Wondered why he said he planned it if he did not plan it. Maybe he was more stupid than I thought he was .

The US killed thousands of Iraqis then saying they had weapons of mass destruction. In the end they couldn't find any. What do they say? Sorry. Just Sorry. For dropping bombs and missiles on innocent civilians. Dod anyone call US a terror nation? No! Afterall they save the world (in delusion). Same way Israel was bombing palestine earlier this year. Innocent and armless civilians. What does the USA have to say. Nothing! Nobody saw that as an act of terror.
Ever wondered why is it that it is all countries that the US has a hand in their affairs that goes bad.

Say Libya. How was it under Gaddafi how is it now?
Same as Pakistan. Syria. Iraq. Afghan.

You are right, very right, that's what nations that are powerful do, from the time when kingdoms and nations started springing up on the surface of the earth, the stronger ones have always been fighting, oppressing, killing and ruling over the weaker ones, conquering and taking their lands. The Egyptians did it on the nubians, the assyrians did on the ten tribe kingdom of isreal , the babylonians too, the Persians on the middle east, the mercedonians on the Persians and babylonians, the romans on the then known world, the Arabs on there neighbors the sassanians and others. So who is to say that the u.s has no right to do as great nations of old did. They are only following traditions.

Little wonder the USA is the number 1 threat to world peace? Pls Google that too if u doubt me. All terrorist groups are a product of the USA.

Good, USA using musl.ms to kill musl.ms in musl.m lands while they take the resources to better their unbelivers and lands, what an irony, what a world!

These same number 1 threat to world peace is the highest seller of weapons to the kingdom of saudi arabia.

These same unbelieving country still maintains millitary presence in the kingdom where there two most important sites in islamm are housed. At a time they had over 60,000 infidel troops in that kingdom.

These same bad country was supported by majority of the Islamic world rulers when they invaded Iraq, abi no be so?

I can only talk to people who are ready for reasonability. Not some continuous hate or attack foundated arguments that never ends.

This thread itself is hate and attack foundated.

Who attacked Kuwait ? Was it not another Musl.m country? Who bailed them out, the infidels.

Who are those attacking syria at the moment , both infidels and musl.ms.

Who is bombing yemen .

Did two musl.m nations not fight themselves (Iraq vs Iran)

It is the denial of the present world crises caused by the association of infidels and musl.s that is causing hate.

mubarakopeyemi:
Y'all Christians

You can ascribe me to any religion as long as you dnt or wunt tell me if the scriptures you quoted are from allah or are false man made fabrications of the scriptures.
Ok , no p, other people on the thread have now known that there are some questions you can't or wunt answer.

paulGrundy:
The immortal soul.

The immortal soul burns in hell?
Going by the question and ur answer , it means that the body. and the spirit do not go to hell, only the soul does.
1A. Where does the body go after death
1B. Where does the spirit go after death.
1C. Show scriptural proof that says the soul is immortal.

1D it is confusing :if the soul will burn in hell, then why the resurrection with a body to later burn again in hell. or if its the body that will burn in hell, why do you say the soul will burn in hell, pls add scriptures when you reply these.

After ressurection

Question number (2) says: What part of the 3 is in
control of mans consciouness.
Pls answer that question as you have not giving an answer.

3A. If you do not go to hell untill after the resurrection, where will one be before the ressurection.?
3B. Where did the bible say jesus was before his resurrection .?

Everyone will take on
immortality, both rightoeus(first) and sinners(during the great white throne judgement). Just that while some are
ressurected to eternal bliss
(belivers), sinners are
ressurected to damnation.

Pls show with scriptural proof the following
4A. Where it is written that everyone will take on immortality, and what take on immortality means.
4B what happens to those who are not raptured.(as asked in the question)

What do you mean by 1st and 2nd ressurection?

I did not say 2nd ressurection.
If you do not know where 1st resurrection is mentioned and who they will be, i recommend you read rev 20:5,6 then answer my question.

Since there is a first resurrection, there is also other resurrections.
So the question still stands and await answers : 5. What is the difference between the first ressurection and other resurrections?

Hades means grave, men are buried in the grave.

Question 6 asks: Is sodom and gomorra still
burning ?
Pls answer the question 6 and do not shift it away.

Question 7 asks : How is hades an escort? Is hades an escort because men are buried in the grave?
Moreover, these men you say are buried in the grave, what part of man is that man that is buried in the grave.? Remember, you urself said "men are buried in the grave." So ur answer on wateva is buried in the grave will tell us what man really is, either soul, spirit or flesh.!

What do you mean by first sinner?

By first sinner, I mean the first man that sinned, adam.
So where did God say that adam will go to ?

DoubleDeeX:
Humans are spirit beings;

Prove the above with the use of the Scriptures.
1. where did God tell adam he came from, and where did he tell adam he will go back to?.

2. What did God call man in the scriptures, spirit or flesh?

even when the body dies and return to the dust, the soul lives on,

Use the scriptures to prove the above.

3. What did the scripture say will happen to the soul that is sinning?
4. Can the soul be destroyed?

awaiting judgement...If the spirit is condemned after God's judgement, it will be thrown into the lake of fire for final destruction. But the souls of the righteous would be given new bodies (Not flesh and blood this time, but glorious bodies like that of Jesus after resurrection) and the power to live for eternity!

5. Where did you read that the spirit will be thrown into the lake of fire.?
6. What about the soul, will it also be thrown into the late of fire to signify that both spirit and soul will be thrown into the the lake of fire?
7. Can you show us where those to receive "glorious body" is in the bible and what will happen to those who do not receive such glorious body?

Matthew 10:28

Don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell.


Revelation 20:14

Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.

@ paulgrundy
My questions where not insultive. But I do admit, I feel my statements before the question where, and for that I do apologise.


Now let me ask you this :
1.What burns in hell, the soul ,
the body or spirit or any
combination of the three of
them.
2. What part of the 3 is in
control of mans
consciouness.
3. You said something about
ressurection earlier, do you
go to hell before or after
ressurection ?
4. The ressurection you
mentioned in which the
mortals take on imortality,
what happens to those who
do not take on imortality or are
not raptured.
5. What is the difference
between the first ressurection
and other resurrections?
6. Is sodom and gomorra still
burning ?
7. How is hades an escort?
8. Where did God say the first sinner will go to.?

MightySparrow:
If you have heard about Watchman Nee you would know he is a seasoned man of God. If your quest is genuinely, as a result of thirst for knowledge I suggest you read his book(s). If you have a fixed opinion on the subject, i'm afraid I can't help. You could also see an Eckist and those who do astral projection they might know more about what Christianity cannot teach. Cheers.

Sorry, I have a fixed opinion on the issue, dnt go beyond what the scriptures does not teach .

mubarakopeyemi:
I posted my questions before urs.
So address them first. Thanks and......
Goodluck!!

My question is to you , not to "dem". So let "dem" answer ur questions while you answer mine and then ask me any question.

MightySparrow:
Like you could deduce from my answer, I am not an expert I'm this. Topic. My friend I talked about never claimed to have seen me in his dreamed.
I like to refer you to a book: The Spiritual Man by watchman Nee. He writes extensively about this stuff. Please make your findings available for the learning of Nairalanders
Happy research.

Ill prefer to use the bible as the source of my beliefs , unless watchman lee knows more than the scriptures

mubarakopeyemi:
good idea sir. God bless u
I wont answer dem anymore jare

Nice one tho, was even about telling them about the crusade stuff but I just decided to leave those Goats

you wunt answer my question also?
You can answer and ask me any question na. But answer first .

dolphinheart:
Jessicha has said its either you are confused or jesus is not right. Ur reply shows you are confused.
You started by quoting the scriptures, now you are making statements without scriptural backup.

Hades is an escort indeed!

Now let me ask you this :
1.What burns in hell, the soul , the body or spirit or any combination of the three of them.
2. What part of the 3 is in control of mans consciouness.
3. You said something about ressurection earlier, do you go to hell before or after ressurection ?
4. The ressurection you mentioned in which the mortals take on imortality, what happens to those who do not take on imortality or are not raptured.
5. What is the difference between the first ressurection and other resurrections?
6. Is sodom and gomorra still burning ?

@paulgrundy , still waiting to see u answer those questions.

MightySparrow:
If I understand you, you are talking of human spirit. It is the part of man or the real man that lives in the body. Just like you atimes stay in your car. If the car has flat tyre you are not expected to use your own as a spare.

That is a question ill like to hear people answer .

However some part of the body when impaired does not make the corresponding part in the body functionless. When you drea your spirit is active I think a lame man does not see himself lame in dream. (I think)

The question is, does a lame man really walks in a dream?. He might be dreaming that he is walking , but thoes he experience all the feelings,sensations, procedures that is associated with walking? If he does not experience such, then he is not really walking, or is he?
Some people can fly in their dreams.

I once asked a friend of man born blind without eyeballs if ever dreamed. I was shock to hear him say, ' of course' I now asked him if he saw me in his dream how do you know me since you have never seen pictures before? He said he saw pictures in dreams and that when one talks in a dream he would match the voice with the image by that he had the idea of how some people he was privileged to see look like.

I believe that friend created a view of you in his mind, most people can do that. When listening to radio, you can picture the person talking on radio while listening to such person. Since voices where different, automatically there will be a different picture visualized by the mind. The question you should ask ur friend is if he can describe you, using the picture in his mind and let's hear the result.

This is a good topic and worthy of more research may be the deaf also can hear in some specal occasions.

Ill like to hear the result of that too.

One question I ask people who believe that man is spirit in a human body is : does physical things control the spirits behavior and character. Is it the spirit that controls the function of the body or the body can also control the functions of the spirit.
What controls our feelings like pain, joy , attraction, urges and dreams, the body or the spirit.

ebbybest:
U are the one who is most confused here.
I rebuke you in the name of the lord. U can't understand these things but pray for understanding

Pls can you use the scriptures to explain to her how the soul enters man, what the soul is and how it is immortal.

Some say the soul is the conscious part of man. Pls is the brain the soul? If I do something to my brain , will it affect my consciouness?
What happens to the soul when a man is in coma, is he conscious , or the soul too is In coma ?

paulGrundy:
don't know all I know is that he is the last enemy to be destroyed.



Hades is deaths escort.



Your point is not valid, Jesus' use of a metaphor does not demise the existence of a burning hell, I want to believe you know his style of writing very well. Check this out:

Jude 7New International Version (NIV)

7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Jessicha has said its either you are confused or jesus is not right. Ur reply shows you are confused.
You started by quoting the scriptures, now you are making statements without scriptural backup.

Hades is an escort indeed!

Now let me ask you this :
1.What burns in hell, the soul , the body or spirit or any combination of the three of them.
2. What part of the 3 is in control of mans consciouness.
3. You said something about ressurection earlier, do you go to hell before or after ressurection ?
4. The ressurection you mentioned in which the mortals take on imortality, what happens to those who do not take on imortality or are not raptured.
5. What is the difference between the first ressurection and other resurrections?
6. Is sodom and gomorra still burning ?

mubarakopeyemi:
Even the trash you said above can't happen and can never happen.
Kindly explain this to me
2 Chronicles 15:13-- All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman

Or even this?

1 Samuel 15:3 -- Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

I thought you guys say it was allah that gave the Jews their scripture, but it was currupted by man. Bro, the scriptures u quoted above, is it part of what allah said or man made curruption of the scriptures ?

Ayomivic:
My Bishop said the issue of
trinity is mystery,

Bro that a bishop said the above does not mean He is right! The issue is, what does the bible say about jesus and God? The bible should provide answers and not man.
Trinity can be a mystery but the bible has shown such mystery as false and man made, the mystery was created to make it easy for pagans who had such similar arrangements to come into the church. Take a look at the false Gods worshiped before jesus and the apostles and see if its not similar to trinity.

but i thought I know who Jesus is when i read the book of John that says " In
the begginnig there is word and the word was with God and the word was God" i belived this word to be the word of God that had been in existence as long as the God had been in existence. I don't belive the word in that verse to be title.

I had said before, we will handle john 1:1 after we have looked at all sorrounding scriptures about jesus. This will help us get a better understanding on what john really said or is saying there.

God has great power to do enything he wish. It was the
God word that was made flesh
and the God's word is God.

The verse never said "god word" .I do not encourage using derived analogy to come to a conclusion on what the scriptures is saying .

That is my stand but you are trying to prove me wrong by saying Jesus is a God, but not God almighty you believe Jesus was exist with God as a separate entity before he came down to earth the reason we are not in agreement on this issue made it mystery becouse i do not agree with you. It remaine mystery until you and I come to agreement and i doubt
we cannot i will like to ask you these
1 human being was created by
dust the angel by fire, how was
Jesus created, who created
Jesus, when was he created
when he was in spirit form?

To go into these question, we must first know how u learnt that angels are created by fire. Pls tell me where you learnt that .

2 The Bible made us to know that Jesus is creator the book of John said "all things was made by him.And Without him there was anything was not anything made that was made"? How can you explaine this if Jesus is separate entity,

Col 1:15-17 brings about some issues which we will look into later, as going into it now might affect the direction of our discussion. But for us to look into it, ill like to hear ur answer on these question: jesus is now in heaven, is he a seperate entity or a part of the father ?

who made the statement let there be in the creation as we read in the Book of Jesus ? How was thing made by Jesus?

I do not understand what you posted here, pls rephrase .

On your question, i belived God was speaking with Angels when he says let make man in our image according to our likeness

You believe, do you have proof to support ur beliefs

the wisdom in proverb 8:22-31 is nothing but wisdom and understanding , the writter use idiom to explaine wisdon and understanding. He uses
figurative expresion
(personification) to explaine
wisdom and understanting.
Remember you can't read it out
of contents. The writter gave
the atribute of man to non living thing (wisdom and
understanding) in verse 22-31
he was trying to explaine that
God possessed wisdom and by it he created all he created.

The writer used idiom to explain wisdom and Understanding ? Can u give us a summary of these explanation and what the verses of proverb 8:22-31 explained to us.

Pls do not forget to explain if jesus is a separate entity or part of God in heaven now.

lexiconkabir:
@dolphinheart, i'm sorry i couldnt answer your question, i had a problem with my phone, and if i'm to answer the questions with the phone i'm using now it will be tedious(its not a smartphone), it has limit to what i can type(1024 words), so pls be patient, insha Allah by next week i would get a new smartphone, then i would answer your questions, i hope you will understand this.

Kk , no p

lexiconkabir:
hi dolphinheart, long time no chat, maybe i should help teekrayne, my views about apostates? please click this thread and read the op very well(please with an unbiased mind). now about those hadiths, personally before i follow any hadith, i make sure that it does not contradict the Qur'an(be it sahih or hasan), because muhammad sayings can never contradict the Qur'an, if an hadith contradict the Qur'an then i am 100% sure that muhammad never said that. the three hadiths you cited talking about killing apostates contradicts the Qur'an, because i am yet to see a verse of the Qur'an that sentence apostates to death. please click these verses of the Qur'an Q5:54-55, Q3:90, if you have seen a verse that sentenced apostates to death, pls let me know.

Hello Bro, I will admit something, I slightly have a biased opinion , based on my personal experience and experience related to me by my extended family members. But on these issue , I will stick to facts, available proofs and truthful response to my questions by you to draw my conclusions, so for now, I have an open mind for these issue of apostasy.
Pls do not look at my questions in bad light, I'm asking just to find out the truth.

I've read the thread. In summary the thread is saying that the quran never recommended the punishment of death for an apostate .

This brings the first question (1) how should an apostate be treated according to the quran? In other words, what did the quran recommend as treatment for an apostate?. (apostate here is a person who peacefully leave the religion and adopts another, who does not slander or say anything about his former religion)

* this questions is asked cus I have heard that not all the procedures and practices of the religion are found in the quran.(if I'm wrong , pls correct me). So if the quran did not give details about actions to be taken afterwards, the hadiths can be used to determine what is to be done. And that the hadith will only be discarded if it goes contrary to what the quran says. This is why I want to know the actions to be taking as prescribed by the quran on these issue of apostacy( the apostacy referred to above).

After these can the issue of contraction be cleared, cus to me, adding extra action to an action(to be taken by the people) that is not prescribed in the quran is not contradiction , but saying something contrary to instructions/ actions/ judgement in the quran is.

Now let's go back to that thread. I'm going to quote part of the thread below:

Freedom to convert to or from Islam
Article 18 of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights states,
“Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief,
and freedom, either alone or in
community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”

(2) (a)does the kingdom of saudi arabia adhere to this article in totality.?
(b)what will happen to me if I go out on the street of saudi arabia with a bible and a cross and seen by the authorities ?
(c) will I be allowed to start a church in saudi arabia so that I can have a medium to talk about my religion?
(d) what will happen to me if I try (c) above.
(e) what is the present law on apostacy in saudi arabia.

Back to the question I asked teekrayne, the questions where :

1. What is ur view on apostacy
2. Do you support these hadiths below as true?

The second question asked if you support the hadith quoted as true, with ur explanation, which of the following stands should I assume.
(A) that the hadiths quoted contain false stories as the prophet and others did not say what is stated in those hadiths.
(B) that the hadiths mis- understood the words of the prophet and thus did not get what the prophet and others was saying correctly .
(C) that the prophet and others did say the words as recorded in the hadiths quoted.
* note, i do not ascribe to the notion that some books are weak, aunthentic or fabricated . In reality, its either a story/statement is false or true or unknown. So since the hadiths attributed a statement to someone, its either the writer of the hadith lied or told the truth. Which of these two do you support?.

Question (3) :it is evident that there has been killings due to appstacy . This killings where done without giving the apostate time to repent . What do you think will happen to such one in the future, will he still be purnished despite not having an opportunity to repent while he was still alive ?